Mozi Neidan Scam

[TheTaoBum]

Kronos,

 

the attached picture IS a manual.

It is a typical mijue manual which are instruction manuals held by most daoists and are usually passed on to disciples.

I have a collection of around 2000 of these manuals, some of which dating as early as the late Ming dynasty, but of course the manual in the picture has nothing to do with Mozi or Djiang school

 

YM

 

That comment right there proved you know nothing about this book.

 

Mopai use fu talisman (i have have all 36 in front of me). How/Why in the hell can you sit there & say its not a mopai related talisman/book unless you have studied the entire 72 levels or own the book yourself ?

 

On what authority do you base those comments ? Are you a mopai student? Oh let me guess, you know several students right loool.

 

Also, How can master Wang say it not mopai, when he too knows nothing about the system ? I already told you people over and over the book & techniques have been confirmed by several of students around the world including greece,indonesia,america On this forum !!!

 

Have fun speculating about topics you all know nothing about but all wish too know.

Edited March 19, 2011 by TheTaoBum

[NeiChuan]

That comment right there proved you know nothing about this book.

 

Mopai use fu talisman (i have have all 36 in front of me). How/Why in the hell can you sit there & say its not a mopai related talisman/book unless you have studied the entire 72 levels or own the book yourself ?

 

On what authority do you base those comments ? Are you a mopai student? Oh let me guess, you know several students right loool.

 

Also, How can master Wang say it not mopai, when he too knows nothing about the system ? I already told you people over and over the book & techniques have been confirmed by several of students around the world including greece,indonesia,america On this forum !!!

 

Have fun speculating about topics you all know nothing about but all wish too know.

 

 

There's one question. Knowing this holds knowledge of Mo Pai.

 

Why then would you try to sell it?...

 

People as a whole could benefit from it, but you go against one of the main rules by trying to sell it. There is a giant contradiction in your motives. Being after you seem to have second thoughts, due to consequences..

 

Are you to help people? or for money? if you were to try and "share" this copy rather then create profit (if it weren't fake). I think it would be less likely for you to have the bad karma you've had.

[TheTaoBum]

There's one question. Knowing this holds knowledge of Mo Pai.

 

Why then would you try to sell it?...

 

People as a whole could benefit from it, but you go against one of the main rules by trying to sell it. There is a giant contradiction in your motives. Being after you seem to have second thoughts, due to consequences..

 

Are you to help people? or for money? if you were to try and "share" this copy rather then create profit (if it weren't fake). I think it would be less likely for you to have the bad karma you've had.

 

Hi Neichuan,

 

I never wanted to sell the book. The moderators can check my pms and will see i had tonnes of messages offering me $400,$600,etc for the book. Those same people are still members here and why they have not defended/supported me is anyones guess. I suppose they dont want people to know they wanted the book. Fair enough. But i never took a cent from any of them.

 

I only accepted more pies money after a very long discussion and he seemed like a genuine guy, which i still stand by after all the insults,name calling,etc.

 

The issue is not about money for me and never was. Its my belief that whats contained in the pages is priceless knowledge & should never to be sold by me again but only shared.

 

After all, im lucky to even be alive.

 

The End.

Edited March 19, 2011 by TheTaoBum

[NeiChuan]

Hi Neichuan,

 

I never wanted to sell the book. The moderators can check my pms and will see i had tonnes of messages offering me $400,$600,etc for the book. Those same people are still members here and why they have not defended/supported me is anyones guess. I suppose they dont want people to know they wanted the book. Fair enough. But i never took a cent from any of them.

 

I only accepted more pies money after a very long discussion and he seemed like a genuine guy, which i still stand by after all the insults,name calling,etc.

 

The issue is not about money for me and never was. Its my belief that whats contained in the pages is priceless knowledge & should never to be sold by me again but only shared.

 

After all, im lucky to even be alive.

 

The End.

 

 

Then why hadn't you just shared with more pie?

[TheTaoBum]

Then why hadn't you just shared with more pie?

 

Becasue i did not think there would be any problems if i sold it to him.

[NeiChuan]

Becasue i did not think there would be any problems if i sold it to him.

 

Then couldn't you have sent the money back along with the book by sharing? If anything bad happened you could still put it back into place.

 

Just saying.. If the book were real, it seems like it could be put into place and work out.

[Gren1o1]

Have a question, can you answer if rather the book is legit or not? Answer the simple question, and only those who knows this can verify, for lvl 2 (which is a test in itself), the one after level 1, what is the basic position or stance?

 

And can you explain the difference between the levels up til 4 (and why is Jim 2b and not 3)? Very simple questions. If so, then this book is legit. If you are unable to answer it, or just a fraction of it of my questions, then its a fraud.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Gren1o1

[YMWong]

Are you able to really understand any of them?

 

It seems like even if you know Chinese, they would still be hard to interpret?

 

As I said these manuals are like the user manual of a car.

My mom, who is old and doesn't drive, may be able to read the words but would not make ANY use of it.

My dad drives, but unless the manual is the one for his own car he too would not be able to make much use of it.

Only the owner of that specific vehicle, with the car at his disposal and having being taught how to drive, will be not only able to read the manual but also make the best use of it.

 

So any chinese with good classical education would read (much of) these manuals but won't understand most of them, or at best will misunderstand most of their meanings.

 

YM

[Thunder_Gooch]

Have a question, can you answer if rather the book is legit or not? Answer the simple question, and only those who knows this can verify, for lvl 2 (which is a test in itself), the one after level 1, what is the basic position or stance?

 

And can you explain the difference between the levels up til 4 (and why is Jim 2b and not 3)? Very simple questions. If so, then this book is legit. If you are unable to answer it, or just a fraction of it of my questions, then its a fraud.

 

Even so that doesn't prove the book is legit, only that he has knowledge of those levels. He isn't interested in showing the actual pages that would prove this book is legit or not, only asserting that it is.

[Thunder_Gooch]

To be honest I don't know why it is so important for you to defend lucas and this book as both being legit, unless you have something to gain from convincing people it is legit. I've spoken to two people know who claim to have sent lucas the money and never received anything back. I am fairly certain this whole thing is a scam, and the more you defend it the more it makes you look as though you are involved in it.

 

I've given you a month or so to refund the money you owe, you've had my money since December 2010, you claimed to have mailed me the book but it never arrived, we agreed to me sending you another payment of the same amount as the first and you would resend the book either via email or via UPS with a tracking number asap, but you stopped talking to me for a long time so I filed a claim with paypal to get a refund.

 

As it stands now even if you are honestly innocent and a victim of bad circumstances it looks like to me and everyone else here as though you are running a scam, defending a fake text to sell more copies of a fake book that you won't mail out under the alias of Lucas Huang who's last known paypal address was in Brisbane Australia the same area you live.

 

I think it would be best if you stop defending this text as legit, or at the very least post the pages that deal with level one meditation which you discussed openly in the original thread about the book.

 

 

That comment right there proved you know nothing about this book.

 

Mopai use fu talisman (i have have all 36 in front of me). How/Why in the hell can you sit there & say its not a mopai related talisman/book unless you have studied the entire 72 levels or own the book yourself ?

 

On what authority do you base those comments ? Are you a mopai student? Oh let me guess, you know several students right loool.

 

Also, How can master Wang say it not mopai, when he too knows nothing about the system ? I already told you people over and over the book & techniques have been confirmed by several of students around the world including greece,indonesia,america On this forum !!!

 

Have fun speculating about topics you all know nothing about but all wish too know.

Edited March 20, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[YMWong]

I'd like to suggest to all friends, if I may, to avoid loosing time after 'secret texts'.

 

Most of the manuals are just meant for the initiate of that specific tradition and are totally useless for the passer by, they don't contain direct instructions and they are only a 'notepad' for the pratictioner.

 

As of old, masters knew that practical informations can only be passed on 'hand on' so some sort of DIY manuals only appeared in modern times and those "instructions" are so basic that nowadays it suffices to browse the web to find more details. Those are the likes of Luk's 'Daoist Yoga'.

 

For those that are after that kinds of instructions I suggest to pick up books like the one recently translated by F. Pregadio (http://www.goldenelixir.com/press/tao_01_foundations.html) which actually deals with Longmen sect information.

 

Best

 

YM

[Thunder_Gooch]

Thanks very much for this, I ordered the book. If you have any more book recommendations neidan or neigong related please let us know.

 

I'd like to suggest to all friends, if I may, to avoid loosing time after 'secret texts'.

 

Most of the manuals are just meant for the initiate of that specific tradition and are totally useless for the passer by, they don't contain direct instructions and they are only a 'notepad' for the pratictioner.

 

As of old, masters knew that practical informations can only be passed on 'hand on' so some sort of DIY manuals only appeared in modern times and those "instructions" are so basic that nowadays it suffices to browse the web to find more details. Those are the likes of Luk's 'Daoist Yoga'.

 

For those that are after that kinds of instructions I suggest to pick up books like the one recently translated by F. Pregadio (http://www.goldenelixir.com/press/tao_01_foundations.html) which actually deals with Longmen sect information.

 

Best

 

YM

[TheTaoBum]

To be honest I don't know why it is so important for you to defend lucas and this book as both being legit, unless you have something to gain from convincing people it is legit. I've spoken to two people know who claim to have sent lucas the money and never received anything back. I am fairly certain this whole thing is a scam, and the more you defend it the more it makes you look as though you are involved in it.

 

I've given you a month or so to refund the money you owe, you've had my money since December 2010, you claimed to have mailed me the book but it never arrived, we agreed to me sending you another payment of the same amount as the first and you would resend the book either via email or via UPS with a tracking number asap, but you stopped talking to me for a long time so I filed a claim with paypal to get a refund.

 

As it stands now even if you are honestly innocent and a victim of bad circumstances it looks like to me and everyone else here as though you are running a scam, defending a fake text to sell more copies of a fake book that you won't mail out under the alias of Lucas Huang who's last known paypal address was in Brisbane Australia the same area you live.

 

I think it would be best if you stop defending this text as legit, or at the very least post the pages that deal with level one meditation which you discussed openly in the original thread about the book.

 

Im not defending lucas, im just saying my products arrived and seem authentic according to various sources. Thats your view of me defending him.

 

And if im running a scam, why did i not collect the thousands of dollars offered to me in the last few months ? I could have easily disappeared and created a new tao bum id.

[David Yeh]

Elijah, you are really something, you know that?

[TheTaoBum]

Elijah, you are really something, you know that?

 

More ridiculous allegations. Ken calls me tony, Pie says im lucas now your calling me ellijah

[Thunder_Gooch]

I just wanted to update Ken and everyone else, I worked out a deal to receive small monthly payments for the $150 I am owed and so far so good. I will issue him a public apology when paid in full.

 

He may not be Elijah as I am fairly certain he lives in Australia, but I do find all of these coincidences too weird for my mind to comprehend.

 

I hate being angry with people, it makes me feel really sick internally. My anger is hard to contain and turns me into someone I don't like being.

 

I still wouldn't waste my money buying this book however.

Edited March 20, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Ken]

I just wanted to update Ken and everyone else, I worked out a deal to receive small monthly payments for the $150 I am owed and so far so good. I will issue him a public apology when paid in full.

 

He may not be Elijah as I am fairly certain he lives in Australia, but I do find all of these coincidences too weird for my mind to comprehend.

 

I hate being angry with people, it makes me feel really sick internally. My anger is hard to contain and turns me into someone I don't like being.

 

I still wouldn't waste my money buying this book however.

 

 

I am glad this is getting resolved although I don't think a public apology is needed, you have put in far too much effort than reasonably expected in getting your refund for a fair transaction. But a public statement of resolution is probably a good thing so that TheTaoBum can clear his name.

[Gaxtal]

More ridiculous allegations. Ken calls me tony, Pie says im lucas now your calling me ellijah

 

ID 'TheTaoBum', you know who you are !

 

 

Believe everyone knows the famous story about "Farmers and Snake (here is the link)" . The snake is still around the cyberspace with many other IDs. So, be careful everyone !

 

It is obliviously showing this conclusion by the following evidences.

 

IDs A = "Elijah Wilson" / "Electric Gravity" / "Thundermind"

IDs B = "lucas huang" / "TheTaoBum"

IDs C= "lotus_born"/"sutra" /"Taozen"/"seongye"/ "DragonGateNYC" etc. .....

 

IDs A +IDs B + IDs c = one group = "DragonGateNYC" group trying to make a buck of Wang liping = Jeannette, the self-claimed direct contact for Grandmaster Wang .

 

Evidence 1, link here:

 

Ken i know your upset about all the criticism i have layed on kathy over the years. It looks like i was right about her way back then and others can now see the same thing ? But please Dont use this opportunity to further your own petty arguments or try to boost kathy. You have had 3 years of blogs & articles but still have not been able to share 1 single technique or method by your school. Come back when you have something free to offer without $$$ attatched...............So please stop with the scam stuff, i could be driving a new car by now if i wanted and attend 100 wang liping seminars ......

Evidence 2 link here:

TaoBum, you are an intelligent, reasonable, seeker of mastery. Ken here acts like he's knowledgeable, but honestly, he is simply an old friend of kathy li and takes every opportunity to show his bias. Jeannette is a direct contact for Grandmaster Wang as she is the one who studies three times per year with Grandmaster but Ken studied but only once and thus knows nothing about what is 'official'. Ken's bias is reinforced by not having spoken with Grandmaster directly for about a year; since the April 2010 intensive! he has no basis to determine who is 'official'.

 

Let it be known that Jeannette at Dragon Gate Academy in New York is every bit as Official as kathy. the only parties with this 'official problem' are kathy and kevin (husband) and yes, apparently their good friend, Ken. The New York branch supports Grandmaster Wang without ego. kathy seeks dominion; this is the difference.

 

Jeannette was very kind and helpful to me because i am a full time student; she made it possible for me to study with Grandmaster. She is really an awesome person, an enlightened student volunteer receiving absolutely no financial compensation. i want to say that she is the REAL, serious student whereas some others just have serious ego issues. The New York branch is growing rapidly; the current students practice twice per week together as a group and look forward to attending the April 2011 Intensive. Very few students come only once to an Intensive with Grandmaster because they make so much progress that they naturally wish to progress even more.

 

TaoBum, i do hope you will join us one day; for an Intensive directly with Grandmaster. the value will be made very clear to you; the practice is absolutely priceless. this cannot be compared to a disjointed, low vibe, egoistical, weekend retreat with kathy. see, clearly, 'more pie' didn't learn anything to encourage your attendance! after that weekend retreat, two years ago, he may never be motivated to study directly with Grandmaster. Sad.

 

 

Evidence 3 link here

I had friend who was an English major look at these and analyze capitalization and grammar and he was convinced they were written by the same person.

 

The writing styles are similar, the excuses are similar. Sorry I am fairly certain this is a big scam all of it. I am fairly certain you guys are just new accounts for the lucas huang guy. I am not sure your real identity.

 

Sent 11 March 2011 - 04:05 AM

Electric Gravity

 

I knew you mailed it out today before i logged into ttb. I was at work today and i got wrote up for no reason then on my way home i got pulled over and got a ticket for not stopping at a stop sign when i know i stopped. Plus it rained all the way home from work. I came home went to bed and had nightmares all night until i got up and prayed. After i was up i logged into here and seen your recent meassages and seen that i was right. After today which is one of the worst days ive ever had. I decided that i cant send you this book.

Sent 29 January 2011 - 03:02 AM

 

TheTaobum

 

Quote

Hey there pie,

im so sorry for the late reply. Oh my goodness, so still nothig. I had the feeling right from the start that something bad will happen.i just hope it is lost & not in the hands of somebody tracking this forums etc. I had the internet crime squad come to my home last week. My ip address was being used by hackers to purchase items via stolen credit cards. I know it sounds ridiculous but im starting to think im getting hacked for this information. Pie guy im really developing in my training to the point my palms feel like pure steel. i also have developed a certain degree of ironshirt among other things.

look mate i dont like asking for more money but yes of course it would help. if you prefer i can scan them this time.

all the best pie & take care,

 

Thetaobum

 

Sent 17 February 2011 - 05:35 AM

Quote

Well i dont where i should start ? First of all i just want to sincerely apologize for the trouble/confusion/heartache surrounding these books. I want to give my word the money will be returned by 2 weeks at the very latest. I will try to send $100 tommorow or the weekend.[WHERE IS THE MONEY?] Im sorry if you feel you were scammed. Im not a scammer bro and that was never my goal to take money & run. Im just too afraid to make a decision.

If you can only imagine some of the things i have been through the past 2 months ! I now know why kostas and many other people left this system for good.

im a really superstitious person, perhaps sometimes too superstitious for my own good. But when i sent ( and send i did) the first copy before christmas i felt a little uneasy and was hesitant on sending this even then. When you told me it did not arrive after so long i immediatly took it as a warning or message.

I dont want to go into everything, But some the most unnatural & spooky things you could never imagine have happened to me in the past month. something you will only see in a horror movie.

Last tuesday i felt like mcdonalds. i dont eat junkfood that often but i was craving for something really greasy and unhealthy lol.

To cut a long story short i was t-boned (hit) at approx 80klm while driving home, right at the front of a funeral home, of all places. ( i have been driving for 19 years with not one single accident,not even a scratch up to then).

The guy who hit me was on the way to his wifes funeral, i was pushed up onto the footpath where my car landed upon a lady in her mid 60s, crushing both of her legs instantly. She was trapped under my car and shocked as i was, i still managed to drag myself out of the car and go right to her aid. As it turns out, she was just exiting the funeral home from her late husbands funeral. And im right in the middle of it. Im pretty sensitive to this stuff and i took it as an Omen.

I really feel like im being warned here, and thats why i never even replied after you sent the last lot of money. I was so confused and tried to be skeptical about everything that has happened (believe me, the car crash is very mild compared to some other things/warning i have recieved).

I never wanted to be a carrot dangler or anything of the sorts mate. I have followed internal martial arts & magic my entire life, i know what this book must mean to you and everybody else.

Im still really in a state of shock at this time. You know i have not even logged in since you sent the money, today is the first after i recieve the dispute from paypal. I just didnt know what to do or say to you. Sometimes i like to crawl under the bed & wish my problems away.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Gaxtal

[Kronos]

you're wrong about IDs C: DragonGateNYC, I know Jeanette, like a lot of other users here. I met her twice in Dalian and also in Beijing. Last time 3 months ago. I think she has nothing to do with the other two groups

[NeiChuan]

I Really think thetaobum was some teenager trolling MPG.

 

Read the end of all those e-mails. Crawl under my bed....

 

Yea sure

[connectedtaoist]

I just wanted to update Ken and everyone else, I worked out a deal to receive small monthly payments for the $150 I am owed and so far so good. I will issue him a public apology when paid in full.

 

He may not be Elijah as I am fairly certain he lives in Australia, but I do find all of these coincidences too weird for my mind to comprehend.

 

I hate being angry with people, it makes me feel really sick internally. My anger is hard to contain and turns me into someone I don't like being.

 

I still wouldn't waste my money buying this book however.

 

If thats the case then what about eg? he got banned over this. Ive kept up with this thread because i was interested in the topic for obvious reasons. And i saw the post eg got banned for he was just calling you a liar and saying that he never scammed you and that he wasnt these other people and if he had any proof of him taking your money and then never sending you anything or refusing to refund then for you to post it here. So then it turns out he was right....

 

or is this how thetaobums operates now?

 

So what are you going to do for eg being that he never took a cent of your money and your actions resulted in him being accused, disrespected, and banned from here when he did nothing to you. I also noticed that he posted his full response to you in his last message where he told you to cancel the money order. (its funny he got banned after he posted that)

 

I think its fair to hear both sides of a dispute. I can tell you this if i were him i would have felt the same way and did the samething.- if i didnt do it.

 

This just leaves me to think wheres the accountability for your actions?

 

I mean if you knew he didnt take your money then why involve him in this in the first place?

Edited March 20, 2011 by connectedtaoist

[connectedtaoist]

Just putting some more thought into it. What was eg suppose to do you jumped on here calling him a scammer. He replied by saying your a liar (which is a natural response). What was he suppose to do not defend himself and just sit here and take it?

 

Just looking back at this "event" no one asked this. Did eg take your money and not send you anything or refund you?

 

You just cant walk away from this now that thetaobum is making payments (which is good)

 

you accused someone and coerced other people into believing it to the extent that action was taken against this person by the admin.

 

And just saying im sorry because i was angry isnt going to cut it.

 

You made real accusations against a real person and real action was taken on that person.

Edited March 20, 2011 by connectedtaoist

[Springgong]

EG is a known scammer. I was close to giving him 300 dollars, but he never corresponded with me regarded the deal, just an email saying he wanted 300 bones.

 

But further investigation, i found EG= Wilson. Wilson= known scammer on many forums. Not very tao like to scam, but very tao like to not know taoism. So in a way, he follows the current understanding of taoism.

[connectedtaoist]

EG is a known scammer. I was close to giving him 300 dollars, but he never corresponded with me regarded the deal, just an email saying he wanted 300 bones.

 

But further investigation, i found EG= Wilson. Wilson= known scammer on many forums. Not very tao like to scam, but very tao like to not know taoism. So in a way, he follows the current understanding of taoism.

 

but he didnt scam you and he didnt scam mpg and you have no proof that he is these other people your just assuming.

[connectedtaoist]

but hold on i thought he was also thetaobum and lucas too? im confused?