Fatigue

[Maddie]

I want to know what/which qigong practices are the best for fatigue? I ask because even though I have been doing qigong for a while now, and it has helped me with a lot of stuff, I still manage to feel fatigued often. So I would like to know the best way to deal with this.

[Everything]

I want to know what/which qigong practices are the best for fatigue? I ask because even though I have been doing qigong for a while now, and it has helped me with a lot of stuff, I still manage to feel fatigued often. So I would like to know the best way to deal with this.

Haven't you made a topic about this earlier? It could be so many things that cause fatigue. Sometimes its a breathing disorder, eating disorder, nose problems, perhaps some form of Anemia.

 

I suggest that most often it is a lack of sleep. People are afraid of sleep these days. People think you're crazy when you sleep 8 hours a day, or not cool when you sleep more then 6 hours a day. On job applications it would be not accaptable to say you sleep 12 hours a day, while infact this is completely normal and healthy. Just sleep as much as you can and want. City life is hectic, but its not natural.

 

If you're completely healthy, then I suggest a form of meditation for the 5 senses. Simply meditate on what you taste, smell, feel, see, hear, etc. all over again, keep doing that untill the senses become stronger, your wakefullness becomes more vivid, the experience becomes more vivid and you will feel more energetic. Never wake up tired, try to wake up with as little movement as possible, by using the mind to energize the senses and body, not the other way around. from the look of your avatar, you seem to excersize alot? or enjoy excersizing alot.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Everything

[Guest sykkelpump]

I just speak generally,if you are normally healthy.I belive from own experience fatique is caused by energy blocks in the spine/nervous system.

My impression is that MANY tao bums changes practices all the time.Its funny,if you come on this board an claim you are a teacher.well it is actually easy money cause of all the bums seeking the non existing super method that works overnight.

Anyway,changing systems all the time can for some people cause stagnations in their meridians.But some already had this problem before starting qi gong.

I had a lot of problems earlier.fatique was one of them.My nervous system was totally fucked up,but the doctors couldnt find any reason for it.

I did many years of diffrent qi gongs,but very small effect.I didnt know that meditation was cultivation i thought it was just an anti stress thing.

But after starting meditation things changed,and it also makes qi gong MUCH moore effective if you need it.Qi gong is low level compared to meditation.most people here seems to think the opposite.

I have two suggestions.one is to first stop all qi gong exercises for a while and do some fysical training for a while.If your fatique is caused by your qi gong then it usually balance back when your body is givin a chance to readjust.

If this doesnt help I would start meditation.That will generate energy etc,and combine it with Zhan zhuang.

I would not do any movement chi gong,it is in my experience slower working than standing still exercises,and also you manipulate the natural flow.which can be bad if you already unbalanced.

In short,for health problems:do not manipulate or controll the energy flow in any way.I have been very sick before and that is the most importent thing i learned.manipulating/trying to move the energy.which is also what you do in tai chi,but in a gently way.the stronger your natural flow is the more you can do manipultion, off course if you feel fine.

meditation generate chi and dont interfere with the circulation the same with zhan zhuang.this is in my honest experience the best.But maybe you already tried this.anyway good luck

Forgot to say,trying to do the micro cosmic orbit was the worst thing I could do when I was really sick.the chi flow there was already so weak that when i tryed to push it around,it got even weaker. I felt worse for days after.the best thing about beeing so sick is that I clearly felt the effects of the diffrent methods.

another thing to be mention,the best meditation for opening up the nervous system again,which was completly blocked I found out to be mantra meditation.cause of the vibrations of the mantra works in the nervous system causing it to wake up faster than with other meditations I have done.I clearly felt the difference.I lost the topic a bit here,anyway I let it be in case anybody find it usefull

Edited March 22, 2011 by sykkelpump

[Encephalon]

I think most of us underestimate the amount of work and attention that is required to identify our modern energy drainers,methodically eliminate them, and replace them with energy gainers. It can be just as complicated and drawn out as being skin-tested for allergies by an allergist. You have to carefully monitor and take notes of what drains you - food, sleeping habits, reading practices, side effects of medicines and herbs, etc. - andf this can take months to assess and then fine tune.

 

If you are relatively healthy, eating well, and are not strung out on sugar, caffeine or OTC sleeping aids, then you should improve the quality of your sleep. After years of trial and error I've settled on an unbeatable combo of 1200mgs calcium citrate/600mgs magnesium (2:1 cal-mag) with your dinner meal, and 100-200mgs of niacin on an empty stomach one hour before dinner. It must be the flushing kind of niacin, not the no-flush form. Google these compound with sleep and read for yourself.

 

I take 2 tbs of organic blackstrap molasses in a cup of warm water in the morning or afternoon for a good pick me up, and try to drink green tea throughout the day. I invariably let coffee creep back into my life as the months go by, and then I cut it back down, but the hell with it - I love coffee.

 

As far as chi kung for energy goes, I'm clueless. I'm an absolute fan of Chu Nei Kung, the healthiest thing I have ever done over the entirety of my rediculous life. Nei Kung is where it's at, not chi kung. There, I said it.

 

www.neikungla.com & http://www.chutaichi.com/neikung.shtml

[Fu_dog]

Sykkel - Interesting answer, especially regarding meditation. I am trying to decide how much to emphasize meditation vs. qigong.

 

Do you find meditation balancing? energizing? both? I am interested in hearing about the benefits you are experiencing. Also, how many minutes per day are you doing?

[Gauss]

[The Way Is Virtue]

I want to know what/which qigong practices are the best for fatigue? I ask because even though I have been doing qigong for a while now, and it has helped me with a lot of stuff, I still manage to feel fatigued often. So I would like to know the best way to deal with this.

 

Hi dmattwads. Maybe you have mentioned it elsewhere, but have you gone for a full check up with a doctor of Western medicine? If not, it might be a good idea to start there. For example, something like mononucleosis can cause a lot of fatigue and should be picked up pretty quick with the right tests (not saying that you have this, but just pointing out that a series of tests could rule stuff like that out for you first ). If all the standard tests come out ok and nothing obvious shows up, then you could try a TCM doctor (if you have any experienced TCM docs in your area) to see if they can find any imbalances from the perspective of TCM. If a TCM doc finds some imbalances then you will at least have a clearer idea where you stand and whether you want to deal with it completely on your own or not. Have you already tried this route?

[Maddie]

[Trunk]

Standing postures help fortify.

[The Way Is Virtue]

I have been to doctors for check up's before, and they have never indicated anything wrong, but after having read about chronic fatigue thats usually how that goes, though I'm not saying I have CFS. I would like to go to a TCM but can not afford to do so at the moment, but in May I will begin TCM school on my own, so perhaps I can have some questions answered there.

 

Ok, my point was just that it is generally best to diagnose first then look at any possible treatment options and approaches. Once things like standard blood tests and x-rays and such are out of the way and there is still nothing showing up, then a TCM doc would be a good next step for diagnosis. Anyway it sounds like you have already done the Western medicine thing. If you can't afford to see a TCM doc right now then at least you should have access to some in May at the TCM school, so that is a bonus. BTW, not sure how much TCM docs charge for a diagnosis in your area but some Chinese TCM docs I have gone to in the past only charged 15 or 20 dollars for a diagnosis.

 

I find standing qigong in the wuji stance with arms hanging down to the sides to be the best general purpose qigong for working on imbalances of any kind, but if you do have something like CFS it could take a fair length of time (many months or even much longer) to really start seeing tangible results. It may be that the stuff you are doing with focusing on chakras and such may not be helping with any imbalances and could even possibly be contributing to them. In such a case limiting yourself to a good general purpose balancing and qi building qigong like the wuji stance might not be a bad idea for now...

 

Best wishes to you...

 

 

BTW, in a lot of cases, what is referred to as nei gung is really not different than qigong unless we are really talking specifics. As an example, some teachers use the term 'tai chi qigong' and others use 'tai chi nei gung' for essentaily the same set of exercises which are both derived from tai chi. In the case of either tai chi or tai chi qigong, I think the term nei gung is just as apt since at higher levels one focuses more and more on building internal energy and on opening the extra channels as well. Nei gung is sometimes still used as a term for special or higher level internal energy cultivation practices but the term is still often used interchangeably with qigong as well.

Edited March 22, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[Maddie]

Thanks both Trunk and Virtue for your input into standing postures. As far as imbalances go and my chakra work, if you are talking about simply clearing the imbalances then its working wonderfully (as the issues I set out to work on are imporving), but can't say its doing wonders for my energy level lol.

 

One thing I'm going to try switching up is since I already do a fair amount of standing postures, I'll keep that, but I think I'm going to try to exchange the 8 brocades I do, with Yi Jin Jing as YJJ is more standing, less moving, and more qi building I believe. I'll see how making that switch works out.

[relaxer]

Hi buddy.

 

Thanks for starting the good topic. Just my two cents, via a conversation with my teacher recently:

 

Simplify.

 

One month ago, I was trying 5 or 6 different practices, MCO, Reverse Breathing meditation, taichi, standing, 21-chikung, etc... I was all over the place and not experiencing balance that I knew was possible. My teacher told me to go back to the foundation, to standing zhan zhuang, that's it. I've been at it for a month and I haven't felt better in a long time. It's wonderful. It takes courage and humility, though, to go back to something so "rudimentary". This might be a way to get things back to ground zero. Maybe you can push through the fatigue and start isolating practices that might agitate.

 

As an artist and teacher in clay, it's the same thing. If a student listens and trusts my advice to practice the simplest techniques, after a very, very short period of time, his ability travels light years beyond the person banging their head against the wall by trying to do too much, too soon. I'm not saying I haven't seen people progress in this way, it's just a lot more painful for them and and for me to watch. Ultimately, it's not about progressing in the ability to move the clay. It's about getting to a place of comfort and communion with the material at which time the material itself is a mirror for your deepest mysteries, the Tao. Here the paradox arises. Yes, technique seems necessary to achieve this, but more importantly, it's the ability to listen. When we can truly listen, hear what is happening, we can react with balance. In clay and in body practices, it's often the foundation practices that put greater emphasis on the LISTENING. Putting energy into them is bound to compound exponentially.

 

Good luck, my friend!!

 

ben

[Maddie]

Hi buddy.

 

Thanks for starting the good topic. Just my two cents, via a conversation with my teacher recently:

 

Simplify.

 

One month ago, I was trying 5 or 6 different practices, MCO, Reverse Breathing meditation, taichi, standing, 21-chikung, etc... I was all over the place and not experiencing balance that I knew was possible. My teacher told me to go back to the foundation, to standing zhan zhuang, that's it. I've been at it for a month and I haven't felt better in a long time. It's wonderful. It takes courage and humility, though, to go back to something so "rudimentary". This might be a way to get things back to ground zero. Maybe you can push through the fatigue and start isolating practices that might agitate.

 

As an artist and teacher in clay, it's the same thing. If a student listens and trusts my advice to practice the simplest techniques, after a very, very short period of time, his ability travels light years beyond the person banging their head against the wall by trying to do too much, too soon. I'm not saying I haven't seen people progress in this way, it's just a lot more painful for them and and for me to watch. Ultimately, it's not about progressing in the ability to move the clay. It's about getting to a place of comfort and communion with the material at which time the material itself is a mirror for your deepest mysteries, the Tao. Here the paradox arises. Yes, technique seems necessary to achieve this, but more importantly, it's the ability to listen. When we can truly listen, hear what is happening, we can react with balance. In clay and in body practices, it's often the foundation practices that put greater emphasis on the LISTENING. Putting energy into them is bound to compound exponentially.

 

Good luck, my friend!!

 

ben

 

Thanks, I appreciate the advice. What you said seems to be one of the common denominators of this thread, (or at least what I've picked up as one) "simplify". Another common theme is to simplify by focusing more on Zhan Zhaung. I also found your insight as an art teacher interesting, as one who has experience in teaching one art form, perhaps has better insight into another i.e. qigong. I think I shall stream line a bit, and keep it simple and see how that goes. Its a pitty your not near, as I would love to learn how to do clay art work :-) haha. Thanks

[Maddie]

I'm working on a theory as to why doing qigong sometimes might make one more tired as opposed to less. This is something I've been thinking about for a while, and in addition to some of the very good replies on this thread this is sort of how I look at it at the moment....

 

If I was going to compare the body to an old house, doing qigong to the contractor, and qi to the construction budget, it might go something like this.

 

There is an old house (your body) and it needs a lot of work, plumming, electric, insulation, dry wall, flooring, paint, foundation, ect... Yet you have a limited budget (qi) do you get to work on fixing the house (qigong).

 

Now at first you focus on just fixing the plumming, and all is going well. The work fits your budget and you are happy with the results. So a bright idea pops into your head, that since the house is so much better with the new plumming that it would be even nicer with new electric and dry wall as well. The only problem is that you only have enough money in your budget to work on one new project not two, but being the zealous contractor you decide to "screw the budget and go to work anyhow". So about half way through working on the electric and dry wall you get very low on money. Now your in a situation where that you could have had one of them done perfectly by now if you had only done one, but now you have two half way finished projects and not a lot of money to get any further on either. So you get frustrated and eventually decide to put the dry wall on hold and focus entirely on the electric.

 

This is basically what I'm thinking may be going on with me and my qigong practice. I began qigong with a practice, liked the results, and got really excited and thought "more is better", and added more techniques, and now I seem to be tired all the time. I know qigong is supposed to build our qi, but perhaps not if we get ahead of our bodies ability to build up our qi. If instead we use what we gain on greater and better "projects" we might not feel the benefit of this extra qi because its all being used up on these projects?

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Guest sykkelpump]

Thanks both Trunk and Virtue for your input into standing postures. As far as imbalances go and my chakra work, if you are talking about simply clearing the imbalances then its working wonderfully (as the issues I set out to work on are imporving), but can't say its doing wonders for my energy level lol.

 

One thing I'm going to try switching up is since I already do a fair amount of standing postures, I'll keep that, but I think I'm going to try to exchange the 8 brocades I do, with Yi Jin Jing as YJJ is more standing, less moving, and more qi building I believe. I'll see how making that switch works out.

 

ok,you do do chakra work and then you feel fatique.still you continue??,because you think it is karma cleansing.how do you know what chakra to work on in right order?this is manipulating your natural chi flow,creating imbalance.you think you knows better then your body intelligence where the chi flow should go,in what order etc?think about this,this was my whole point in my last post.if you switch prcatice to standing and still work with chakras,what will you think then?standing didnt help I suppose.I guess this is why some absolutly need a teacher,because they are sure about what they do(without any understanding about how the body works)and then they mix whatever methods they knows and as long as they feel something they think it is all good or karma cleaning.

[Ya Mu]

ok,you do do chakra work and then you feel fatique.still you continue??,because you think it is karma cleansing.how do you know what chakra to work on in right order?this is manipulating your natural chi flow,creating imbalance.you think you knows better then your body intelligence where the chi flow should go,in what order etc?think about this,this was my whole point in my last post.if you switch prcatice to standing and still work with chakras,what will you think then?standing didnt help I suppose.I guess this is why some absolutly need a teacher,because they are sure about what they do(without any understanding about how the body works)and then they mix whatever methods they knows and as long as they feel something they think it is all good or karma cleaning.

Very valid point.

 

In clinic I have seen so many that have problems that came from doing forceful energetics with the "chakras". They read about or someone told them about what each one exactly does. Non forceful methods are IMO and IME much safer. I would beware of those that absolutely know what each chakra is, what it means emotionally & physically, and any number of things that seem to be repeated about as popular knowledge. Some of it is quite harsh misinformation.

In the OP's case, IF he has no medical problems, it certainly sounds like an imbalance caused by playing with the energy centers.

[Maddie]

I'm not argueing that my chakra work may be related to some of my fatigue, but on the other hand the issues I'm trying to fix by doing so are indeed getting fixed. I think its like Friend said, sometimes first you have to spend energy before you get energy. Btw the method I have been using to work on the chakras IS standing meditation.

[Creation]

As an artist and teacher in clay, it's the same thing. If a student listens and trusts my advice to practice the simplest techniques, after a very, very short period of time, his ability travels light years beyond the person banging their head against the wall by trying to do too much, too soon. I'm not saying I haven't seen people progress in this way, it's just a lot more painful for them and and for me to watch. Ultimately, it's not about progressing in the ability to move the clay. It's about getting to a place of comfort and communion with the material at which time the material itself is a mirror for your deepest mysteries, the Tao. Here the paradox arises. Yes, technique seems necessary to achieve this, but more importantly, it's the ability to listen. When we can truly listen, hear what is happening, we can react with balance. In clay and in body practices, it's often the foundation practices that put greater emphasis on the LISTENING. Putting energy into them is bound to compound exponentially.

WOW! Most inspiring post on here for me in a while. Loved the pottery analogy and the bit about listening.

[Maddie]

After considering some of the advise from this thread, I modified my practice a bit yesterday to include only "chi building" techniques. I dropped all moving sets such as the 8 brocades (swapped it with Yi Jin Jing, which is supposed to be very chi building), yet keeping standing postures, and lower dan tien breathing (as this is supposed to build chi too) but no MCO (don't want to disperse what chi I do build up). So far I can say that today while I would not say I'm 100% yet (its only been one day) but I do not feel nearly as lethargic as I had been feeling previously. I also began taking ginger a couple days ago to strengthen my spleen and digestive system so that it can more effeciently convert food into chi. So far the results are favorable. Thanks to all who offered their advice and input

[torus693]

i got hold of a book on polarity therapy years ago that had some posture dedicated to quickly recharging the kidneys. I find them to work very well.

I gave that book away and the title escapes..

[Friend]

closedeyes:

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Maddie]

You are a lot in building, ever thought of balancing?

 

Q

 

I'm a lot into building now due to the massive amount of energy I used in balancing lol.

[Drosan]

[Maddie]