In a jam, but keeping my cool

[Mestena]

Hey folks,

 

It's been a long while since I've posted here, but I decided to come slinking back in to gather some advice about a situation I find myself in.

 

Though I don't adhere to any particular religion or philosophy, when asked, I generally claim Taoist and Zen leanings. Well, I have been seeing a very wonderful, open-minded, philosophical man for some time now. We seem to be a perfect match in most ways, and can easily fill 10 hours with nonstop conversation. All is wonderful, but there's one hitch; his father is a fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher, and his mother is deeply religious also. He wants to introduce them to me, but before even meeting them, his mother discovered that I lean in the direction of Eastern philosophy, and she GRILLED him about it. He gave me a heads up that I may encounter some heavy opposition and anger, though he said he will stand strong beside me and weather the storm. I have a solid meditation practice, so am not easily knocked off center, nor do I often catch myself in 'reaction' mode, or become defensive. However! That said, this could prove to be a very intense encounter. Can you guys think of some diplomatic words, and tactful responses, to the questions that are bound to be asked of me? Things that might appease, while also not giving my power away?

 

All advice is accepted, and appreciated.

 

Blessings.

[Taomeow]

Hey folks,

 

It's been a long while since I've posted here, but I decided to come slinking back in to gather some advice about a situation I find myself in.

 

Though I don't adhere to any particular religion or philosophy, when asked, I generally claim Taoist and Zen leanings. Well, I have been seeing a very wonderful, open-minded, philosophical man for some time now. We seem to be a perfect match in most ways, and can easily fill 10 hours with nonstop conversation. All is wonderful, but there's one hitch; his father is a fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher, and his mother is deeply religious also. He wants to introduce them to me, but before even meeting them, his mother discovered that I lean in the direction of Eastern philosophy, and she GRILLED him about it. He gave me a heads up that I may encounter some heavy opposition and anger, though he said he will stand strong beside me and weather the storm. I have a solid meditation practice, so am not easily knocked off center, nor do I often catch myself in 'reaction' mode, or become defensive. However! That said, this could prove to be a very intense encounter. Can you guys think of some diplomatic words, and tactful responses, to the questions that are bound to be asked of me? Things that might appease, while also not giving my power away?

 

All advice is accepted, and appreciated.

 

Blessings.

 

Wow, what a practice you have ahead of you!

 

Here's a strategy that has worked for me in similar situations:

 

1. Whatever they tell you, respond with much feeling, "I agree with you," "this sounds great," "oh, it's so very true," "you are absolutely right," and so on. They will run out of brimstone in no time, guaranteed.

 

2. Whatever questions they ask, have a few of those items prepared in advance that in my college years we called "cucumbers." I will explain. Where I come from most exams we had to take were oral one-on-one grillings by the professor, not multiple choice written tests. In case of ignorance, you masked it with a routine that went something like this...

 

Q: What role did the Roman Catholic church play in the south of France during the Albigensian Crusade?

 

A: The south of France is a region with a long and rich history, the culture is ancient, and agriculture, e.g., was practiced for many centuries predating the Roman Catholic church, due to the fertile soil of the region and warm Mediterranean climate. As we know, many crops grow well in such climates, and eggplants, tomatoes, and cucumbers have long been staple vegetables in the area. Cucumbers are actually creeping vines that will grow low on the ground but can also climb poles and fences. The flowers are large and usually yellow, although there are varieties with white or orange flowers. The crops can be gathered throughout the warm season, and the best plots yield ten pounds of ripe cucumbers from every square foot in the course of one summer. Cucumbers are mostly eaten raw in salads or pickled or marinated, although in parts of Asia they are also fried. In China, cucumbers are often eaten straight up, like fruit, the way we eat apples. People with kidney problems often benefit from adding cucumbers to their diet. Cosmetically, cucumbers can be used for facial masks, their juice soothes irritated skin...

 

...and so on. you have to know everything about cucumbers, and you don't have to know, or bring up, anything else. No matter what they ask, turn the answer to the subject you know best, which is a safe one too. Cucumbers.

 

Or whatever else you choose in advance to use... think it through and stick to your drill, and you'll be fine.

[mike1234]

Taomeow's #1 is very patronizing and might make them angrier. Just tell them that you do not want to discuss religion, and that you respect their beliefs and would like it if they would respect yours.

[Taomeow]

Taomeow's #1 is very patronizing and might make them angrier. Just tell them that you do not want to discuss religion, and that you respect their beliefs and would like it if they would respect yours.

 

It's a technique from NLP, actually. It is used as one possible communication strategy when the goal is to avoid rather than escalate a conflict. Knowing one's own goals in the course of communication and choosing a strategy accordingly is not "patronizing." It is merely aware and conscious.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Research Christian monks and scholars who have been on a meditative path, such as Thomas Merton, Jesuits, perhaps be prepared to talk about the Christian fathers and the Philokalia-type of thing, and be ready to divert into this side of things. Whatever you do, stay away from Hinduism and Buddhism, if you can. Just speak of 'contemplation' rather than 'meditation', and if you believe in prayer, talk toward prayer. Keep monkishness in mind rather than Hare Krishna and Buddha, even.

 

Be as happy as possible to meet the gene line of this wonderful man, and keep your focus on that. Don't let them sniff out evasiveness and discomfort. It's a tightrope, for sure, but how you keep your heart and attitude will determine so much.

 

And observe how your man does with all this. If you can objectively as possible observe how he does with this scene, it may save you a lot of pain later on if he really can't cut the strings with his parents and claim you. It's a good test and a peek into a possible future. If he really stands by you energetically, that's great, if there's a little voice in the back of your head, know that now.

 

T

[mike1234]

It's a technique from NLP, actually. It is used as one possible communication strategy when the goal is to avoid rather than escalate a conflict. Knowing one's own goals in the course of communication and choosing a strategy accordingly is not "patronizing." It is merely aware and conscious.

 

I have experience with NLP and minored in communications in college. What you said will come off as being patronizing in that situation. There's a more skillful way to do what you suggested, but it would need a better explanation than what you have given. Matter of fact, I suggested that method as a possible technique that singer Chris Brown could use when hounded about his felony battery charges against a woman: Yes, what I did was awful and I never expect her or anyone to forgive me... I don't even forgive myself, and I will never live what I have done down. I am a broken person with plenty of faults, but please allow me to share the only thing of value that I have with the world --- my music.

 

I use such techniques everyday in my marketing business... Except I use people's faults and insecurities against them. I call it Hurt Marketing

[mike1234]

Research Christian monks and scholars who have been on a meditative path, such as Thomas Merton, Jesuits, perhaps be prepared to talk about the Christian fathers and the Philokalia-type of thing, and be ready to divert into this side of things. Whatever you do, stay away from Hinduism and Buddhism, if you can. Just speak of 'contemplation' rather than 'meditation', and if you believe in prayer, talk toward prayer. Keep monkishness in mind rather than Hare Krishna and Buddha, even.

 

 

I hate to seem argumentative, but I grew up in a fundamentalist household, and I know for a fact that many Baptists and other Christians would be turned off by any mentioning of Monastic practices, Church Fathers (A true fundamentalist will tell you that there's not father, but God They would not be happy about hearing anything that's based on Catholicism or any sect that isn't their own. If it ain't in the King James version of the bible, then it's a false doctrine

 

Just speaking from experience. Your second half was spot on, and a first meeting isn't the place to get into religion. If you don't want to delve into a religious discussion, then just tell them so.

 

You will be fine.

[mYTHmAKER]

Hey folks,

 

It's been a long while since I've posted here, but I decided to come slinking back in to gather some advice about a situation I find myself in.

 

Though I don't adhere to any particular religion or philosophy, when asked, I generally claim Taoist and Zen leanings. Well, I have been seeing a very wonderful, open-minded, philosophical man for some time now. We seem to be a perfect match in most ways, and can easily fill 10 hours with nonstop conversation. All is wonderful, but there's one hitch; his father is a fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher, and his mother is deeply religious also. He wants to introduce them to me, but before even meeting them, his mother discovered that I lean in the direction of Eastern philosophy, and she GRILLED him about it. He gave me a heads up that I may encounter some heavy opposition and anger, though he said he will stand strong beside me and weather the storm. I have a solid meditation practice, so am not easily knocked off center, nor do I often catch myself in 'reaction' mode, or become defensive. However! That said, this could prove to be a very intense encounter. Can you guys think of some diplomatic words, and tactful responses, to the questions that are bound to be asked of me? Things that might appease, while also not giving my power away?

 

All advice is accepted, and appreciated.

 

Blessings.

 

Easier said than done. Stay quiet and steady inside. Do not refute anything they say. When and if they bring up meditation use the word contemplation. Working on making yourself a better person. Do you believe in Jesus as the son of god? Yes (just don't tell them we all are). Be nice and pleasant and accepting and open. Show them you really care for their son. They will like you and that is what counts.

As far as NLP is concerned - move and speak with their rhythm.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I hate to seem argumentative, but I grew up in a fundamentalist household, and I know for a fact that many Baptists and other Christians would be turned off by any mentioning of Monastic practices, Church Fathers (A true fundamentalist will tell you that there's not father, but God They would not be happy about hearing anything that's based on Catholicism or any sect that isn't their own. If it ain't in the King James version of the bible, then it's a false doctrine

 

 

Oops.

 

The other thing is to just be who you are, if they don't like you and your ideas, so be it. Doesn't bode well for the future if you can't be yourself.

[mYTHmAKER]

Oops.

 

The other thing is to just be who you are, if they don't like you and your ideas, so be it. Doesn't bode well for the future if you can't be yourself.

 

You are right on.

I was going to mention something similar but some how got distracted

[Dagon]

Jesus was a great teacher. Often overlooked, he taught acceptance / tolerance.

 

Micah 4:3-5 "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hat spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever."

 

Mark 9:38-40 "...we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbade him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part."

 

Luke 9:49-50 "...we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

 

1 Corinthians 10:31-32 "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, orwhatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:"

 

People assert thier own meaning into his words, as happens with many of the great prophets of the past. Maybe some of these versus can help you.

[Dagon]

(Side note, Probably don't want to say this to them)

 

I think most of the prophets / dieties were pointing to the same thing, however with different words. The interpretations of these words have lost much of the wisdom throughout the ages, as people used the words as a mechanism of control and ultimately power.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Dagon

[Seth Ananda]

as I to grew up in a Christian fundamentalist cult, I have spent a lot of time learning how to converse with them.

 

1, I always honestly express that I want 'Truth' and to walk a righteous path much more than any beliefs I or them may hold.

 

2, I welcome them to prey for me [or with me], as If Lord Christ is truly the Way, then I want to follow him solely.

 

3, I tell them that when I ask for any or even the tiniest sign from christ/god all I really get Is a deeper sense of conection to Divinity as I experience It.

 

4, I do not personally believe that I need Christ or any mediator between myself and the Divine, as I follow God as I feel it, but am willing to change if the divine shows me...

 

5, The 'God' I feel is a constant source of 'Good' and when I follow it's guidance, my decisions result in, better deeper relationships, more honesty, less selfishness and greater virtue...

 

6, If what I call God is really a satanic Influence then please pray for me now to dispell these demons, that I may enter the true path...

Them- "prey prey mumble mumble"

Me- "nope I can still feel God is with me"

 

7, I tell them I just do not think God feels it's important that I be a Christian.

 

8, I do not know if I believe Jesus even existed,

 

9, No matter how much a prophesy looks like its being fulfilled, its far too easy to make any number of events fit a single prophesy, so its no real Indicator of anything.

 

10. There is no way that the bible is the literal word of God, or it would not have contradictions in it, such as Judas's two deaths.

One by hanging himself, one by walking over a field and having his entrails fall out. I have had many Christians try to tell me that both happened simultaneously, so I ask them to practice the Honesty they preach and not try to stretch obviously incompatible details just to win an argument.

As the bible is therefore not the literal word of God I would Never put it between myself and Divinity, and have no real Interest in learning about it.

 

11, of course I believe in evil/sin but its root is Ignorance of God, not Satan. Like darkness is simply absence of light.

 

Basicly a conversation like this with a fundy goes for several Hours. They will pass through denial, outrage, heated disbelief, incredibility, frustration and then finally a weird kind of acceptance mixed with a sense of respect and an "ill pray for you still"

 

For me I feel totally honest In this conversation, and I believe they respond very well to that.

I do want truth above all else, and wish to be truly Virtuous in how I live.

This Christians can empathise with.

The other stuff tends to confound them as they can not apply all their usual conversation traps to me. water off a ducks back. So far even the most recalcitrant dogmatic Christians I have met have fallen before this tactic and given up on trying to convert me or sometimes to even be willing to converse about religion with me.

 

I personally Love having this conversation.

I do not know, I just love watching existential confusion mark a face lined with a lifetime of rigid belief.

They are the main points I use that I can remember...

Have fun

[Sloppy Zhang]

Remember- ALWAYS keep your goals in mind!

 

MAINTAINING A STABLE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FAMILY!

 

Your goal is NOT to "win". To get them to admit to being wrong.

 

Your goal is NOT to convert them to your belief.

 

Your goal is NOT to have them accept your belief system.

 

Your goal is NOT to educate them on the nuances of your practice.

 

As others have pointed out, many of the core teaching of Christianity are wonderful and in line with many others. But religious dogma gets in, and people start flipping out on each other because of the details. Don't get into that. Stick with the overall messages.

 

I suggest rather than saying, "yes, I agree" or something which could be seen as patronizing, say "I see where you're coming from." and "that makes sense." Some might even go so far as to lie, and say, "ah yes, I'll start doing that right away!" but deception may not be the best. If they offer to read the Bible with you, or take you to some services, take them up on the offer, and speak about all the positive aspects of it- good message, good atmosphere, wonderful groups of people, insightful messages and things of that sort.

 

I wouldn't go with Seth Ananda's strategy right off the bat- because usually these things DON'T last for several hours right off the bat. It's usually more of a "oh, I see, hmmmm......" as they judge you initially. Later on if it gets more heated, well, then they can go through all the steps of the denial, anger, weird acceptance, etc etc. If you try it right off the bat, and then, oh look, the evening news has disrupted our conversation in the "anger" portion, well then the last thing they think of you is them being angry at you!

 

As for things like this:

 

4, I do not personally believe that I need Christ or any mediator between myself and the Divine, as I follow God as I feel it, but am willing to change if the divine shows me...

 

Fundamentalists have construed that position to mean that I will not change unless the divine personally shows me. As in, God/Jesus has to go out of His way to do something, and if He doesn't, then He won't get MY stamp of approval, as if my stamp of approval is the only thing that mattered!

 

Instead of my being seen as open to new ideas and willing to follow new things if the appropriate steps happened, I became seen as the egotistical center of the universe, where I'm the final authority on whether or not something is real, and divinity must appease ME and MY opinion (concern yourself not with whether or not the divinity would actually have a hard time with this!)

 

Trying to be "clever" in pointing out contradictions and stuff usually works to my detriment as well (I was raised Catholic, so I already know a lot of the responses to things like that, and in more than a few cases, the source of contradictions are perfectly understandable, and there's no reason to push on a point that we both understand- not good for friendly conversation!)

 

 

 

Basically, tread carefully. Remember your goal. It's not to win. It's to survive, if not at least amicably, to get along rather well considering a severe difference of opinion. Depending on the extremity of their fundamentalism, your "round 1" goal is to show them that you aren't a nut, that you are mentally stable, that you aren't possessed, that you don't practice strange rituals or invite potentially evil forces into your body!

 

As others have said, try to use equivalent terminology. Don't say "I meditate, which is sort of like contemplation." Because a fundamentalist already knows what meditation is- emptying your mind to allow the devil to get into you! Trying to convince them otherwise is going to fail! So use equivalent terminology right off the bat.

 

And on that note, always let THEM define the terms. That way they can't go back and say, "that's not what contemplation/prayer is, you wouldn't know, you aren't Christian." Ask them what they perceive to be the correct practice of going about contemplating God's word, or the mercy of Jesus, or things like that, and then use THOSE definitions when explaining your own practices.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[manitou]

I would say, first of all go in with a Do Nothing mindset. Respond in kindness, always.

 

Also, go in deciding you're going to love them, no matter what they think about you. Love them anyway. No worries.

[gendao]

Though I don't adhere to any particular religion or philosophy, when asked, I generally claim Taoist and Zen leanings. Well, I have been seeing a very wonderful, open-minded, philosophical man for some time now. We seem to be a perfect match in most ways, and can easily fill 10 hours with nonstop conversation. All is wonderful, but there's one hitch; his father is a fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher, and his mother is deeply religious also. He wants to introduce them to me, but before even meeting them, his mother discovered that I lean in the direction of Eastern philosophy, and she GRILLED him about it.

I'd advise some deep "Byron Katie" self-inquiry first. Are his parents perhaps mirroring or aggravating some aspect of you regarding religion that you're uncomfortable with?

 

- For example, do you yourself have some Fundy background that you suffer guilt-trips from?

- Do you feel very judged in life - and by who?

- Do you harshly judge yourself or others about their religious beliefs, whatever they might be?

- Are you as intolerant of their religious beliefs as they are of yours?

- Can you love and accept without judging? Especially yourself?

- Etc.

 

All the other suggestions here are well-intentioned, but ultimately just various deceptive ways to avoid the truth of the matter whose roots probably lie within yourself. And avoiding this truth will only cause this pattern to keep repeating itself in different scenarios in your life (if it hasn't already).

 

All deception is ultimately self-deception.

Edited March 23, 2011 by vortex

[Taomeow]

Wow, so many lucky people who only meet people who can handle the truth. Of course, when you are with people who can handle the truth, "just be yourself" is the best advice. They always respect it, right? Always support you when you are "yourself" even though your "being yourself" means, to them, "negating everything they stand for?"

 

Of course you can choose the "I don't care how I make them feel" stance and wave your banner of "this is me, take it or leave it" in their faces. Personally, I believe it's puerile. I used to be like that when I was a teenager. I grew out of it. Now I ask myself, "what will this truth of mine mean to them?.." If the answer is, "it will make them feel threatened and invalidated," I keep my truth to myself and give them what they can stomach instead.

[NeiChuan]

Taomeow's #1 is very patronizing and might make them angrier. Just tell them that you do not want to discuss religion, and that you respect their beliefs and would like it if they would respect yours.

 

yep this pretty much.

 

Research Christian monks and scholars who have been on a meditative path, such as Thomas Merton, Jesuits, perhaps be prepared to talk about the Christian fathers and the Philokalia-type of thing, and be ready to divert into this side of things. Whatever you do, stay away from Hinduism and Buddhism, if you can. Just speak of 'contemplation' rather than 'meditation', and if you believe in prayer, talk toward prayer. Keep monkishness in mind rather than Hare Krishna and Buddha, even.

 

Be as happy as possible to meet the gene line of this wonderful man, and keep your focus on that. Don't let them sniff out evasiveness and discomfort. It's a tightrope, for sure, but how you keep your heart and attitude will determine so much.

 

And observe how your man does with all this. If you can objectively as possible observe how he does with this scene, it may save you a lot of pain later on if he really can't cut the strings with his parents and claim you. It's a good test and a peek into a possible future. If he really stands by you energetically, that's great, if there's a little voice in the back of your head, know that now.

 

T

 

after seeing a documentary on the same, it's opened me up a bit on the perspective of religion not being organized.

 

Jesus was a great teacher. Often overlooked, he taught acceptance / tolerance.

 

Micah 4:3-5 "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hat spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever."

 

Mark 9:38-40 "...we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbade him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part."

 

Luke 9:49-50 "...we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

 

1 Corinthians 10:31-32 "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, orwhatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:"

 

People assert thier own meaning into his words, as happens with many of the great prophets of the past. Maybe some of these versus can help you.

 

Hm pretty cool. I'll have to use these. Pretty cool thanks.