Consciousness

[lazy cloud]

Thanks Twinner

To continue with my Formula, I do not see how consciousness/awareness can ever be anything but a Mystery. How can you Know what it is, when Knowing itself is an event that happens within it?

 

or, Can a person with zero consciousness ever known something?

 

Consciousness/awareness are the single prerequsite for all knowledge and experience.

You can not become conscious of consciousness. What you can do, is take more notice of the objects and events within consciousness, including noticing in greater detail that you are 'aware' of stuff.

 

Even If you Have Great realisations [like me ] of the Oneness that is consciousness behind/within everything those are still experiences within Consciousness or ?, not ? It self.

 

Consciousness is an experiencing thing, and that is about all we can say about it.

 

Also In the ? -> O I have to point out that -> is not the Ego, Its just a way of describing that ? experiences O, and not the other way around.

If anything Ego is in the realm O or Object, as It is an observable phenomona.

 

Have Fun

I look at conscious as the adjective and consciousness as the noun.

 

If we subsitute non-consciousness or unconsciousness(these are 2 different things)

for your zero consciousness, will that retain the essence of your question?

 

You are adressing a human conciousness here only, correct?

[Aaron]

Hello Lazy Cloud and Seth,

 

It seems you both are asking the same question in a different way, so I will try to explain it the best way I can. In regards to the consciousness I speak of, well it has no physical form, so it can't be described in that way. It is not human consciousness, but humans are a part of it. Everything has consciousness, regardless of what it is, because all things came from consciousness. If I were to liken it to anything it would be as I described it before, a vast ocean that permeates everything in existence. We are a part of it, we feel it's ripples, yet not physically, oftentimes it's just an awareness, an intuition.

 

Two recent examples. Today my brother called me and asked me to go to lunch and I told him I couldn't because my car was about to break down. He was certain it wouldn't and asked me how I knew and I answered that "I just knew." Well long story short, it broke down on the way home, the only thing is it broke down a block from my mechanics garage. That was the first convenient thing about it. Now I call my brothers and they come and help me push my car to the local gas station. One brother says I should go in and ask if I can park it overnight and then I can have someone tow it to my mechanic the next day. The other brother tells us that they wont do it because this is a chain and their policy is that they wont allow cars to be parked overnight because of insurance reasons. I tell them I'll ask anyways. I walk into the store and low and behold, who is at the counter but John, a friend I've known for about four years, but haven't talked to in two.

 

You see I knew John when he didn't have a car and I used to give him rides everywhere, whenever he needed it. He looked at me and said, "it wont be a problem, leave it here as long as you need to." We caught up exchanged numbers and I went home. Now that seems coincidental doesn't it? The only thing is that for the last four months or so, since I've experienced this consciousness, this has been the course of my life. I can sometimes tell what's going to happen before it happens and when things do happen they tend to happen in a way that is less than tragic.

 

A smaller and less interesting event happened about an hour ago. I was listening to a song on my i-pod and I was thinking of another song, but I couldn't remember the name. I have many many songs on my i-pod, about two thousand or so, so it's not like I could just pick it out, so I just set my i-pod to random and played the first song I wanted to listen to, guess what the second song that played was? The song I couldn't remember the name for. Again coincidental, but as I said before, these coincidences happen all the time now. I guess I just take it for granted that things will work out.

 

My job status is the third weird coincidence. I was without employment and out of money and had no real options to look forward to when out of the blue and old employer calls up and asks if I could work for him for awhile. One of his employees was in an accident and he was short handed. I ended up being unemployed for a grand total of two days.

 

Consciousness is real, but trying to define it concretely doesn't seem to work because it is mysterious, I'm not denying that part of it. What I'm saying is that from my own experience I understand it, I know it is there and I know that it is what connects me to everything else in existence.

 

Now this is the really impressive part of consciousness, since I've experienced this awareness I rarely get angry or upset, in fact it's been awhile since I've felt this way. I have a serenity that just is. I don't have to work at it, it just is. I didn't take any self help courses or see a counselor to get to this state, it just started to be. My capacity for compassion is much greater than it has ever been in my life, but so is my ability to handle situations in a way that is beneficial to everyone involved.

 

Case in point, my employer had a client that no one wanted to work with. He described this woman as insufferable, well those weren't his exact words, but it's not important. I went to see this woman and I showed up when I thought I was supposed to be there, as in the time that was on the worksheet. She was upset because she had actually rescheduled, but my boss had never told the office manager. This woman was never upset with me, rather she apologized and said she understood that this was putting me out too. I did the work I needed to do and left. My boss called and said that she had asked for me by name to come back the next day. I did. When I was done that second day she said that she was very happy with my work and that she planned on having us do several other jobs for her and was it possible for me to come do the work.

 

Now this isn't something unique to this client, in fact several other clients have requested the same thing. The employees also ask if I can work with them. They say I'm easy to get along with. Now keep in mind that this is a physical labor type of job and these men are very macho and I happen to be gay and they know this. They still would rather work with me then anyone else in the company.

 

How do I know consciousness exists? Because I see it's effects in my daily life. I see it in how I interact with others and what happens around me. Things just work out for me. I don't really struggle or worry because I know this is the way it is. If you're asking me to provide a scientific basis for how this happens, I couldn't tell you, all I can say is it just does.

 

With that in mind, I have to get up early tomorrow to go to work, so I have to let you go and hit the hay. I know this doesn't really answer your questions, but perhaps it will give you an idea of my perspective of consciousness. Have a good nights rest or good day, depending on when you read this.

 

Aaron

Edited March 28, 2011 by Twinner

[lazy cloud]

Aaron,

 

What you just posted is textbook Jungian, the collective un-conscious.

[Gerard]

More and more I feel that this physical life we are living is not real, I mean our ultimate conscious level exists in another plane and proyects itself from a dual perspective: yin (dream world) and yang (physical world). Final awakening means returning to the original conscious state called dzogchen (Tibetan Buddhism), returning to the Source (Daoism) or parinirvana or eternal true self (Mahaparinirvana Sutra).

 

I need to wake up, I am getting really tired of this eternal samsaric game.

 

You can wake up too!

[Patrick Brown]

I can relate to your experiences and understanding. 1991 was a pretty intense year for me as I jumped off the cliff and had a whole bunch of mystical experiences. 1991 also happened to be the 100 year anniversary of H.P. Blavatsky's death and I thereafter spent several years studying Theosophy.

 

Prior to 1991 I was reading the Tao Te Ching and engaged in longwinded conversations of a philosophical nature. A few years ago I arrived at Tibetan Buddhism and although I'm not religious something about the imagery of TB caused a deep stirring. What I once thought, as a teenager, returned with a continuous flow of insight. Needless to say I had to switch it off as it was doing my head in. Hey when everyday the truth gets deeper and deeper and you perceive the fractal nature of things you have to pull the plug or end up mad. Hence my signature:

 

"Getting closer to the one is divine madness,

Getting closer to the self is divine bliss."

 

I think the reason we're here is to remember and learn again. Of course there was a time when we didn't know there was anything to remember. We have fallen from peace, bliss and love, but hey it was a fun ride! Now we have to disentangle ourselves and journey back to the peace, bliss and love. Of course all things are relative yet we all eventually tire of the human sphere and yearn to return to spontaneity.

 

So we live on but some of us are working on being released from this sphere. I follow the Bodhisattva way which means I stick around until the end of the current cycle, it's a bit like doing overtime!

 

One of my favourite quotes is:

"The first shall be the last and the last shall be the first."

 

I don't think many people can become enlightened but all people can experience Nirvana. Once people have been guided to nirvanic bliss they are ready to move up even though they don't necessarily understand what is really going on. This is the difference between transitionary beings and immortal beings.

[Marblehead]

 

You can wake up too!

 

I'm awake, thank you. Just finished my second morning cup of coffee.

 

We are all real. Forget about your illusions and delusions. (Or at least understand what they are.)

[dwai]

Thanks Twinner

To continue with my Formula, I do not see how consciousness/awareness can ever be anything but a Mystery. How can you Know what it is, when Knowing itself is an event that happens within it?

 

or, Can a person with zero consciousness ever known something?

 

Consciousness/awareness are the single prerequsite for all knowledge and experience.

You can not become conscious of consciousness. What you can do, is take more notice of the objects and events within consciousness, including noticing in greater detail that you are 'aware' of stuff.

 

Even If you Have Great realisations [like me ] of the Oneness that is consciousness behind/within everything those are still experiences within Consciousness or ?, not ? It self.

 

Consciousness is an experiencing thing, and that is about all we can say about it.

 

Also In the ? -> O I have to point out that -> is not the Ego, Its just a way of describing that ? experiences O, and not the other way around.

If anything Ego is in the realm O or Object, as It is an observable phenomona.

 

Have Fun

 

Consciousness is self-aware. Sorry...had to make that statement. This is evident in the gap between thoughts...all objects are superimpositions on this consciousness. How? Now that is the mystery that needn't be solved....

[Marblehead]

Consciousness is self-aware. Sorry...had to make that statement. This is evident in the gap between thoughts...all objects are superimpositions on this consciousness. How? Now that is the mystery that needn't be solved....

 

Of course you had to make that statement.

 

It's always nice seeing you making statements here.

 

So please don't be sorry. At least one person here enjoyed your statement.

[Aaron]

I wanted to add that my ideas regarding consciousness haven't changed much, but it is merely one layer of the whole. I kind of think of consciousness as one half of it and stillness the other half. Stillness isn't consciousness mind you, rather the part of us we like to think of as heart-mind, for lack of a better word. We are all born with heartmind, but we do not really achieve awareness of it til we can experience stillness. Stillness allows us to understand consciousness better, to see the patterns within it and the connections that come with it. When we see stillness, feel stillness, even smell and hear stillness, experience it with all of our senses, then our understanding and appreciation of consciousness, that part that allows us to appreciate the world in its physical manifestation, is even more acute. We can understand the necessity for compassion, but at the same time that it isn't required. We choose to be compassionate for a reason, it's the gift that allows us deeper insight into ourselves and the nature of who we were and who we were before we became who we are.

 

It is this awareness of stillness that lead many to view consciousness as transient, but really it's only the physical manifestations of consciousness that are transient, consciousness itself will always exist, because it is inexorably linked to silence.

 

Aaron

[dwai]

Of course you had to make that statement.

 

It's always nice seeing you making statements here.

 

So please don't be sorry. At least one person here enjoyed your statement.

 

Thanks MH

[Gerard]

I don't think many people can become enlightened but all people can experience Nirvana. Once people have been guided to nirvanic bliss they are ready to move up even though they don't necessarily understand what is really going on. This is the difference between transitionary beings and immortal beings.

 

You hit the nail on the head.

 

Sentient beings are scared to death to lose their egos. That's why they are all down here (and this cycle can last for thousands of lives, just they have no clue of what's going on, others come back to work on their final karma, others as guides (they become the ascended masters we already know about).

 

In the moment of death sentient beings, have a good glimpse of Nirvana, but that conscious bliss lasts probably a millisecond. Look the way humans come back and what they turn into later on in life. Just compare the following two images:

 

 

 

 

I have seen the same baby's eyes in experienced Vipassana meditators during retreat and some mountain Daoist recluses. One particular Daoist living in the White Cloud Temple in Beijing almost lost the facial features of a Chinese person, this monk looked like a saint, very similar to the following Christian mystic:

 

 

It was truly amazing! I firmly believe we has a Christian nun in his past life, which explains the face shift he experienced.

 

Humans who reach a very high spiritual level, and have purified their hearts from ego and desire, have completely reconnected to the higher self and maintain that state for the remaining of their physical existence. I wish all humanity could undergo this process, Earth would be so spiritual, peaceful and harmonious.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Gerard