Which Tai Chi School is "Best"?

[Stigweard]

A friend of mine recently asked this question:

 

"Stuart, I have been doing Doaist Tai Chi and really enjoyed it the most of all the things I have tried, but the class closed and now someone has offered me a class in Chen style Tai chi, what is the difference? do you know anything about these things??"

 

Here's my reply:

 

---------------------------------

 

Great to hear of your interest,

 

I always tell my students that real Tai Chi is not the form ... Tai Chi is a way of movement and a way of being.

 

So it really doesn't matter what form you are doing.

 

Saying that, some schools/teachers/forms assist in the discovery of Tai Chi and some unfortunately create roadblocks in the way of this discovery. And this is where your own level of awareness and perception come in.

 

In terms of what is the difference ... Taoist Tai Chi created by Master Moy was an offshoot of an offshoot of traditional Yang family Taijiquan. Traditional Yang family style was an offshoot of traditional Chen family style. But that doesn't automatically mean that this Chen style is the original because, even if it is called Chen, many offshoots of Chen have occurred as well.

 

In your own mind and heart, really feel what Tai chi is to you ... what is the essence as you understand it. Then go and attend a few classes and see if the class gels with your inner understanding.

 

But please try and keep an open mind. We must accept that our current understanding is not necessarily all there is to understand

 

Observe the teacher closely, would you consider them an "integrated and wholesome" person. Have a look at the advanced students that have been there for 5 years or more. Are they showing clear signs of emulating the teacher's skill?

 

Once all this consideration is done, ask yourself if this class resonates with what's in your heart. If it does then commit properly for at least 18-months ... it usually takes that long for a learner to show any signs of real progress.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Stuart

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hmm, it's a tough question, and depends a lot on what you're looking for. (skip to bold for practical checklist suggestions)

 

I'm not too familiar with where that person is coming from, but some tai chi schools focus on "health and wellbeing" and "universal togetherness", while others are pretty straight forward martially oriented. The health and wellness aspects only go so far as becoming a superior fighter with a superior machine (your body), and drawing as much practical effectiveness out as a problem. Then you consider everything in between, and you've got a lot of potential options.

 

To that extent, some things can be VERY different. I've read accounts that there was some commotion when Chen Fake started teaching Chen style openly, since it looked so different than the popular styles, like the Yang style. Apparently some people said, "oh yeah, tai chi relies on the whole peng, liu, ji, an and things like that, how does Chen style do them?" And Chen Fake was like, "what?" So people started thinking that Chen tai chi wasn't actually tai chi!

 

Then I believe it was Chen Xin, who recorded a lot of the forms and techniques, who said that Chen style tai chi reflected the changes of the eight trigams, so it'd be a lot more like bagua! (though apparently Chen Xin was more a scholar than fighter, and I do believe scholars had a familiarity with the I Ching, but I digress)

 

I've read some rather interesting theories on how and why Yang style tai chi differs so much from Chen, at least in the popular forms that most people know. Some attribute it to Yang Luchan's genius, others to his exchanging of techniques and experiences with other styles, and others to mixing and transmissions with techniques which originate from Wudang. But then others argue if you look at the forms practiced by the main members of the family back when they were well known fighters, how they issued power, and things like that, then the chen influence is obvious (guys like Yang Banhou were especially brutal in how and where they administered force).

 

Asking what the difference is between any one style and another (especially different lineages/traditions/branches of the same style) requires a lot of research and examinations of the nuances and the people who shaped the style. And even within one style/lineage, there are going to be different people who focus on different things, and in different ways.

 

So short of that I would suggest to examine it like you would any other prospective school (martial arts or otherwise):

 

1) Are their goals in line with your goals?

 

2) Do they have a systematic level of training which allows them to reach those goals?

 

3) Is there evidence that the training works- do the students show progress, and if so, how long? Is it across the board? Are there suspicious outliers? (for instance, 2 senior students are really good, the other senior students aren't discernible from an average person, and everybody else has been there with no improvement)

 

4) Can the teacher walk the walk, or just talk the talk?

 

5) Do you feel comfortable there? Can you put lots of time in there?

 

6) Is there room to grow? As in, are the teachers and students MUCH better than you, or just a little? How much progress would you make there? Will you be challenged to take things seriously, or can you float along with minimum effort?

 

I'm sure a few others could be added to the list.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[GreytoWhite]

I have been learning Chen chansigong for a while now. I've learned a little of the Wudang and recently had the chance to participate in a I Liq Chuan lesson. I've found that taiji is taiji just a shift of focus. That said I prefer Chen and Wudang most but it's up to you for what you want.

[Astral Monk]

Any form of tai chi can be 'best' if it is practiced with the fundamental principles in mind. If these are absent, then you are not doing tai chi.

 

With that in mind, let's have a look at some styles, starting with classical Yang style:

 

 

Now compare to the Moy style tai chi, which is the same as the Daoist Tai Chi Society practices:

 

 

Sun style:

 

 

A modern variant, combining elements of the major existing schools and qigong principles, Tristar style:

 

 

 

What is best will also depend on what you are looking for. For instance, that Moy style tai chi can provide a good stretch, but it may violate some of the basic tai chi principles in doing so. As an organisation, it also lacks any and all reference to internal alchemy, qigong, and martial applications. So if you're looking for those, you won't find them in that school.

 

In contrast, the Tristar school seems to have a more internal focus, but the martial application (of the form itself) is dubious. In that case, it may be more of a qigong set.

 

OTOH, all these things may be overcome by a good teacher who understands, can apply, and teach the deeper principles of tai chi. Some of those folks you may find in the park in the morning, not in a formal training hall!

 

Generally, though, if you want the most out of tai chi, you need to find a school or teacher that can and will teach all sides and not just 'for health'. Otherwise doing a form without the substance is no better than any other kind of exercise. The forms themselves have no magic properties in the structure, so if you're just pantomiming the ultimate value is questionable.

 

8)

Edited March 25, 2011 by Astral Monk

[Andrei]

I really like what Stigweard said.

 

Chen style that I like the most is:

 

And this one I like because of teaching method , I really like Robot style Taichi

[gendao]

I am personally interested in Zheng Manqing's modified Yang-style lineage based upon judging backwards from some of his luminous students and teachings. Such as:

 

Waysun Liao

T. T. Liang

(Note: I don't personally include William C.C. Chen amongst them because I don't feel like he attained much from him, for whatever reason..)

But I think Zheng Manqing was actually able to elevate his brand of Taijiquan above other pure Yang stylists because he also studied with a long TCM lineage and probably incorporated a lot of that knowledge. Hence, many of his disciples also seem far more versed in the Taoist/spiritual/qigong/alchemical aspects - and use those as a basis for their Taijiquan.

The other cool branch would be Feng Zhiqiang/Joseph Chen (陈中华/Chen Zhonghua)'s Hunyuan Taijiquan.

Edited March 25, 2011 by vortex

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Stigweard]

 

Stuart he asked what the difference is Chen Style to his Daoist Tai Chi and not an "offshot" explaination and also not which school is the best as he is offered Chen Style Tai Chi and has a chance to learn it.

 

Q

Hehehe ... fair comment. I kinda voiced my true thought by saying:

 

"I always tell my students that real Tai Chi is not the form ... Tai Chi is a way of movement and a way of being.

 

So it really doesn't matter what form you are doing."

 

Which was saying that it doesn't matter about the superficial differences, if the inner fundamentals are there then it's all good.

 

But true as you said I didn't get into the technical differences of the 2 styles. Mainly because, even though I am familiar with the mechanics of Taoist Tai Chi, I have no way of knowing which branch of Chen style my friend was looking at. There is some pretty big differences depending on whether the teacher is teaching the Old Frame style or the New Frame or the Small Frame, or whether it is another offshoot of one of these.

 

So being robbed of my ability to accurately compare mechanics (and even there I am not an expert on Chen style) I had to give a more general response.

 

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[devoid]

Hi Stig,

 

I think your answer is a very good one.

 

You could consider adding that it is important that the teacher can also explain the martial applications of the forms he/she teaches. I know some people are not interested in that, but masters of the past have suggested that the understanding the martial application is key to performing the forms right.

 

Additionally, you could consider pointing your friend to this article by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming on learning Taiji Quan: http://ymaa.com/articles/steps-in-learning-taijiquan

[Stigweard]

Hi Stig,

 

I think your answer is a very good one.

 

You could consider adding that it is important that the teacher can also explain the martial applications of the forms he/she teaches. I know some people are not interested in that, but masters of the past have suggested that the understanding the martial application is key to performing the forms right.

 

Additionally, you could consider pointing your friend to this article by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming on learning Taiji Quan: http://ymaa.com/articles/steps-in-learning-taijiquan

Cheers ... and thanks for the link.