Major component of evolution theory proven wrong

[Marblehead]

Maths tell truth.

 

As long as the numbers are not fudged. All Accountants know how to fudge numbers and keep the corporations they work for from having to pay their fair share of taxes.

 

Math can be used to tell lies just as easily as words can.

[Marblehead]

 

Hehehe. Good try. But it is still a fact. And Carl Sagan agreed with me.

[ralis]

As long as the numbers are not fudged. All Accountants know how to fudge numbers and keep the corporations they work for from having to pay their fair share of taxes.

 

Math can be used to tell lies just as easily as words can.

 

I guess Gauss doesn't know math very well. Even Einstein said that math did not create an exact map of reality.

 

I can't find his quote, but that is close enough.

Edited March 29, 2011 by ralis

[Immortal4life]

Numbers don't lie, if we want to talk about numbers, here is a number for you......

 

This thread, at current count, has gotten 642 views in 24 hours. Some people are going to really like my threads, other people will dislike them, and I have seen people get to the point of anger over them on occasion. Others will find them kind of interesting, but not have any emotional response, and will check them out every so often.

 

But the bottom line is this thread is getting hits. When I make threads about mental abilities, they might get 200 views in several days or even a week. When I make threads about qigong or meditation, they might get 500 hits in several days or maybe even a week. But this thread, over 500 in less than 24 hours.

 

Numbers don't lie. Whether you like it, or you don't like it, this thread is drawing.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Immortal4life

[ralis]

Numbers don't lie, if we want to talk about numbers, here is a number for you......

 

This thread, at current count, has gotten 534 views in 24 hours. Some people are going to really like my threads, other people will dislike them, and I have seen people get to the point of anger over them on occasion. Others will find them kind of interesting, but not have any emotional response, and will check them out every so often.

 

But the bottom line is this thread is getting hits. When I make threads about mental abilities, they might get 200 views in several days or even a week. When I make threads about qigong or meditation, they might get 500 hits in several days or maybe even a week. But this thread, over 500 in less than 24 hours.

 

Numbers don't lie. Whether you like it, or you don't like it, this thread is drawing.

 

 

Actually numbers can lie. It depends on who is lying with the numbers. I have a very good background in math up through advanced 800 level (utility theory). "How to Lie With Statistics" is an excellent primer on the deception of numbers. Also I am a poker player and I know for a fact that probabilities are just that i.e, not exact.

[Marblehead]

I really liked this video, thanks for posting it-

 

And the reason they who do not accept it are this way because they refuse to look at the proof that proves evolution is a fact. If you keep your mind closed, refuse to look at hard evidence, you can easily justify your beliefs in superstitions and the various myths concerning the creation.

 

But if you are willing to open your eyes, to open your mind. to observe reality as it truely is, to understand the processes in nature you will have no choice but to accept evolution as a fact and you can still hold to the moralistic teachings of your religion and have no conflicts between the two.

 

The fear of stepping over that line is what keeps most people from opening their minds because they fear it will completely destroy their core beliefs. This never need be the condition. Religions were initially created for the purpose of teaching that society's moral values. You can still hold to every one of them while accepting the findings of the various sciences.

 

Now, I will be the first to admit that scientists make mistakes. They are. afterall, only human, not gods. But the system has a way of correcting for these errors. It might take many years but that's not all that bad.

 

Religion has a useful place in the life of many people. I will never deny that. But to deny the proven facts of life in favor of some fairy tale is, IMO, unacceptable.

[Encephalon]

Have you considered Blasto that your style may put off just as many people as my style? No one is going to be liked by everyone. Not me, and not you either.

 

All the time. I regularly question the difference between my identity and my persona.

 

The only thing I expect from anyone in here is what I expect from myself; the willingness to post thoughtful ideas with the understanding that I may be challenged to support my arguments. It's not a particularly risky practice unless you presume to know more than you actually do.

 

Unlike you, I didn't come in here and lie about my credentials and educational experience and try to launch an abysmally infantile campaign to sow suspicion of the world scientific community. Please forgive me if I just can't seem to summon the courtesy you're looking for. In the mean time, pretty please, with sugar on top, cut the victim bullshit and pull your head out.

[Immortal4life]

I don't recall ever talking about myself, credentials, or anything like that....nor do I plan to.

 

Whether you like it, or don't like it....

[Encephalon]

Numbers don't lie, if we want to talk about numbers, here is a number for you......

 

This thread, at current count, has gotten 642 views in 24 hours. Some people are going to really like my threads, other people will dislike them, and I have seen people get to the point of anger over them on occasion. Others will find them kind of interesting, but not have any emotional response, and will check them out every so often.

 

But the bottom line is this thread is getting hits. When I make threads about mental abilities, they might get 200 views in several days or even a week. When I make threads about qigong or meditation, they might get 500 hits in several days or maybe even a week. But this thread, over 500 in less than 24 hours.

 

Numbers don't lie. Whether you like it, or you don't like it, this thread is drawing.

 

BFD!! What could possibly be going through your head that would attach any significance to this point? I didn't think this was possible but you've just scaled another height of pettiness. Unbelievable.

[ralis]

I challenged Vortex on another thread about his educational experience or lack thereof, relative to his post on imminent geological calamities and the impossibility of his claims. No answer so far.

[Marblehead]

I highly doubt I have ever made anyone not want to post on a forum. If you really don't like me that much, there are plenty of other threads you can read.

 

Hehehe. I still like you Immortal. I even still like Gauss.

 

There are many people who enjoy Taoist philosophy but yet do not want to deny their present religion. I can understand that.

 

And every now and then there is a thread on this board that is not focused on any of the Taoist schools. This is okay too. But I will say that I think it would be wrong to come to this board and try to push your non-Taoist beliefs on folks who are here to learn about Taoism.

 

This thread was not started for the purpose of discussing any Taoist concept therefore it really shouldn't even be in the forum titled "Taoist Discussions" but should have been in the "Off Topic" forum.

 

So each of us here have the choice of responding to the opening post or not. My choice should be obvious. Had this thread been opened in the "Off Topic" forum I likely would never have responded to it.

[Marblehead]

Forget sound bites from other men and look at the actual evidence for evolution and it is completely overwhelming, take a look at the evidence of fossils and the records of development of animals like birds or horses and it shows evolution, there are numerous account of evidence such as the fact that you get more dark coloured moths in areas with high industrial pollution, and look at the evidence derived from scientific induced artificial selection and you can pretty safely say evolution is fact. At least you can say evolution is a fact when describing WHAT happened and a theory when describing HOW things happened.

 

Nicely stated Jetsun.

 

You have said what I haven't taken the time to say. Thanks!

[Creation]

Yes, I also find it concerning that genuine people can be put off communicating here. I know the abrasive atmosphere created by some posters can be counter productive to people opening up and sharing less than obvious material and so we get a lot of beginner level questions and material.

You presence gives some warmth to this ice-cold thread.

 

People who post arguments that veer so far out of the scope of accepted scientific consensus, such as religious arguments against evolution, bare most of the burden for this "abrasive atmosphere" as you call it, especially when they presume to know more than they actually do.

Actually, people who are abrasive bear the the burden for an abrasive atmosphere.

 

FYI, I was considering posting on topic, but apparently my opinion is irrelevant because I didn't make it past high school, not to mention being well under 40 and having access to the internet since I was 13, and that I am a Neanderthal (or was it Stone-Ager?) for questioning the scientific establishment.

 

Have a nice day.

[Marblehead]

More with Dr. Berlinski-

 

Thanks for the offer but I have already had enough of him. Hehehe.

 

(PS I know what he is pushing and it is as bad as cocaine.)

[Marblehead]

Numbers don't lie. Whether you like it, or you don't like it, this thread is drawing.

 

Hehehe. I wish I could find a nice way of putting my thoughts into words after reading your post. Yes indeed, this is a very active thread.

[Immortal4life]

The first things is, that this thread is not about one particular religion, and I have never promoted any particular religion over another.

 

I did use Taoist, Buddhist, and Islamic sources, as well as the BBC.

 

However, I disagree that scientific issues are irrelevant to siprituality, and Taoism in particular. Throughout history, ideas of cosmology, the origins of life, and things like that, have been incorporated into, and existed side by side, with Taoism.

 

It was inevitable that I would have to turn heel, to draw, and to set up things for the future. Don't worry, nothing last forever and nothing stays the same. Also, what one person thinks of as a bad guy, another person thinks of as a good guy.

 

Shocking moment-

[Immortal4life]

(PS I know what he is pushing and it is as bad as cocaine.)

 

LOL!

 

 

[Marblehead]

Whether you like it, or don't like it....

 

I had to give up watching Professional Wrestling because it became too much like a religion.

[ralis]

You presence gives some warmth to this ice-cold thread.

 

 

Actually, people who are abrasive bear the the burden for an abrasive atmosphere.

 

FYI, I was considering posting on topic, but apparently my opinion is irrelevant because I didn't make it past high school, not to mention being well under 40 and having access to the internet since I was 13, and that I am a Neanderthal (or was it Stone-Ager?) for questioning the scientific establishment.

 

Have a nice day.

 

It is not too late to go back to school. After high school, I had one year of college, that was interrupted by military service and I didn't get back in college until I was 28 yrs. old. It was the best time of my life.

 

Don't doubt yourself!

[Marblehead]

LOL!

 

 

I never watched that series on TV that he just got fired from.

 

I have no interest in the personal life of any of the screen stars.

 

I even try to stay ignorant of the personal life of the music people I listen to.

 

But yes, if you like to go fast you need to make sure you have very good brakes. Otherwise ... "Bang!" ... crash and burn.

[Creation]

It is not too late to go back to school. After high school, I had one year of college, that was interrupted by military service and I didn't get back in college until I was 28 yrs. old. It was the best time of my life.

 

Don't doubt yourself!

Thanks for the encouragement. I had one year of college too, well, more like part of a year before personal issues were interfering too much with school work.

 

But the point was pointing out to Blasto how he was creating an abrasive atmosphere and cutting off potential dialogue, for whatever that's worth, seeing as I like him.

 

Of course, it's not just Blasto. I think this thread has degenerated into too much of a joke for me to spend my energy trying to post something serious here.

 

I wonder about this place...

[Marblehead]

 

Of course, it's not just Blasto. I think this thread has degenerated into too much of a joke for me to spend my energy trying to post something serious here.

 

I wonder about this place...

 

Hehehe. Can I say, "It's all Tao." and get away with it?

[ralis]

 

 

It would seem these days that they are still teaching people in schools that they have "plant" DNA and "bacteria" DNA in them, meaning that we were at one time more like plants, and even before that point we were more like bacteria than humans.

 

As evidence for this claim, the textbooks claim people have cells in them which were "swallowed" by other cells at some point in the past. They say in the past that a plant cell "swallowed" the bacteria cell, or that one bacteria cell swallowed another bacteria cell, and that led to evolution or is somehow a mechanism that would make macro-evolution possible. They claim the plant cells or Eukaryotes somehow directly came out of bacteria cells or Prokaryotes. They call this the "endosymbiosis" components of the theory of evolution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem with your premise is that you take as absolute proof several unscientific sources, then you proceed to make claims that are not taught in any textbook to my knowledge. Yes, there are similar biological cellular structures between animal and plant cells. That is as far as it goes. To my knowledge, no one ever claimed we have plant ancestors. If we did, human cells would have chloroplasts.

 

 

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Animal_Cell_vs_Plant_Cell

[Encephalon]

It is not too late to go back to school. After high school, I had one year of college, that was interrupted by military service and I didn't get back in college until I was 28 yrs. old. It was the best time of my life.

 

Don't doubt yourself!

 

I don't believe that was the true point he was making, Ralis. He was making a tongue in cheek argument that I didn't think his post was worthy because he was too young, not educated enough, he suffered too much exposure to the Internet, and didn't regard the scientific establishment as an unimpeachable source.

 

All of this is irrelevant and obviously so to anyone paying attention to the thread; if you're going to make a point, no matter how contentious, you bare the burden of proof. This includes knowing your subject matter enough to be credible and not lying about your level of expertise. If this point bounced off his forehead then it probably was a good idea that he abstained from posting.

 

It's clear that if it's a choice between maintaining an amiable online environment or keeping falsehoods from being disseminated, many TTBs seem willing to tolerate absolute nonsense if it keeps everyone happy and soft and warm. I look back at the history of humankind to see the havoc wrought by falsehood and superstition and I shudder to find that "making nice" has subordinated the respect and love for truth.

I'm entirely aware of the Zen adage that says "Truth spoken in anger is not truth," and I am well-versed in the union of wisdom and compassion, but I think we're dealing with an entirely new level of collective delusion, where aggressive ignorance and intellectual irresponsibility have become normalized in the service of "kindness," not just in TTB but throughout culture. This brand of kindness I'll pass on.

[torus693]

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Edited April 8, 2011 by torus693