Major component of evolution theory proven wrong

[Andrei]

Pro evolution and con creationism.

 

I am pro both. CREATION AND EVOLUTION.

 

I grew up with the EVOLUTION of personal computers. I saw two different species EVOLVING: PC and MAC. I saw the EVOLUTION of Windows and MAC OS. But they were CREATED by humans. THEY DID NOT EVOLVED BY THEMSELVES! They were CREATED by a superior intelligence who made them more and more complex.

 

I see my own CREATIONS how they EVOLVE, my own software programs that I make. So my point is this: No-one denies the facts of evolution, there is plenty of undeniable evidence, but the theory of EVOLUTION BY ITSELF. The species diversify because SOMEONE made them. Once they are CREATED they EVOLVE. They were ENGINEERED. Any engineering process evolves but with the participation of a conscious and intelligent mind.That is all.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2011 by steam

[Encephalon]

[Gauss]

[Lucky7Strikes]

Major component of evolution theory proven wrong

 

Video about cells

 

It would seem these days that they are still teaching people in schools that they have "plant" DNA and "bacteria" DNA in them, meaning that we were at one time more like plants, and even before that point we were more like bacteria than humans.

 

As evidence for this claim, the textbooks claim people have cells in them which were "swallowed" by other cells at some point in the past. They say in the past that a plant cell "swallowed" the bacteria cell, or that one bacteria cell swallowed another bacteria cell, and that led to evolution or is somehow a mechanism that would make macro-evolution possible. They claim the plant cells or Eukaryotes somehow directly came out of bacteria cells or Prokaryotes. They call this the "endosymbiosis" components of the theory of evolution.

 

Evidence which debunks this notion was discovered back in 2003 when for the first time, scientists found a free-floating organelle inside a primitive cell.

 

Sorry, you don't have "plant" DNA in you. Your great grandfather x 100000000000000000, wasn't a plant. Just because plants came later than bacteria doesn't mean plants came directly out of bacteria, or that plants were created by bacteria cells swallowing each other. In fact, if this actually did ever occur, the swallowed cell would be instantly destroyed.

 

Scientists have found an organelle - an enclosed free-floating specialized structure - inside a primitive cell for the first time-

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Cell evolution puzzle

 

 

New discovery contradicts theory of evolution-

Clearwisdom.net - Selected Photos: Scientific Universe : Life Sciences

 

Oh Shit!

 

The Endosymbiosis Hypothesis and Its Invalidity. The new discoveries throw doubt on the idea it could ever be possible

Darwinism Refuted.com

 

 

So do you still believe your great great grandfather x 100000000 was a bacteria flagellum?

My biology teacher has studied and worked with Margulis and is one of leading biochemists in the country. In class the above mentioned theory on cell evolution was thrown out. Scientists no longer support it, and whatever the talk is here with all this scientific method nonsense, is not understanding that the cell evolution theory is exactly that: a theory.

[Lucky7Strikes]

[Lucky7Strikes]

Hi Blasto.

 

I think you are not really getting what cat was saying. Did you notice that she did not mention anything about science but only mentioned abrasiveness in the context of discussing cultivation?

 

 

OK great! This merits some discussion. I personally think that your view of what the problems, causes and solutions are is limited.

 

Here is a nice quote about education from Aristotle for you: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." I sure as hell didn't learn that quote in school, nor did learn that ability in school. Actually, I saw no evidence that I was going to receive anything out of college than a education in regurgitating information and "playing the game", That was one of the reasons for my leaving (along with major depression, etc.). Even if they didn't like to admit it, almost everyone I talked to about it agreed that there wasn't a whole lot of genuine learning going on, just a bunch of hoops to be jumped through. And I went to a very prestigious research university. So every time you bring up "college" I cringe. Like college is this wonderful place you go to learn to think so well. Bullshit! In my experience, the mantra of education today is "Play the game". Was this not the case with you? "Critical thinking" is only emphasized insofar as they might try to force you into a cookie cutter mold of critical thinking, the consequences of which are students simply learn churn out assignments in a way that give an appearance of critical thinking, and worse yet, actually believe that what they are doing is critical thinking. It seems to me that your idea of "how it should be" would only result in more of this. This is on example of how I think your perspective is limited and would not necessarily solve the problem you want to solve, but perhaps even exacerbate it.

 

I have thought a great deal about this, and this is the conclusion I have come to.

I agree! The higher education agenda is dead, as in there is absolutely nothing creative, intuitive, or educational about it. The only reason I find college anyway helpful is meeting people or getting a credential, but then again, I find this to be no justification for wasting shit ton of money and time and energy and youth on doing stuff that is absolutely useless.

 

Critical thinking to a point is useful. But beyond that it's totally god damn unnecessary to spend all that time on it. I ask professors here what they found most valuable in their research and most of them don't say "critical thinking" or "scientific method." They say "creativity," "imagination," "passion" "new way of looking at things" My science teacher flat out laughed at the textbook when it had this whole section on how science advanced through some "method." He said the greatest discoveries were pretty much feats of imagination put to test: it works? Great! A discovery!

 

But we don't learn any of this in today's higher education except in rare occasions when you meet a professor who inspires you. But the whole system at the end of the day is a evaluation system of GPA's, internships, statistics, MONEY and as you say: getting ready to "play the game" getting ready for the rat race. So how can there be any genuine passion for learning anything? The whole system is a lie.

[Gauss]

I guess Gauss doesn't know math very well. Even Einstein said that math did not create an exact map of reality.

 

I can't find his quote, but that is close enough.

 

 

Mathematicians do know maths(I actually studied a decent level of university maths in those days so I know my limitations) and they have shown over and over again that random mutations over million of years never could generate human beings - it is mathematically impossible when you dig into the genetic data and calculate probabilities(probability is zip zero for evolution to ever have happened)..

 

Maths on very high levels is incomprehensible to ordinary people and Einstein is probably right that many of those theories may be wrong since almost no people can understand them and hence such a person may go wrong in their axioms without any other human beings seeing it....

 

I find it quite amusing when biologists attack mathematicians for not being "biologists" and not understanding evolution.... In fact mathematicians took the facts that the biologists provided them with and then did the maths for them.....

 

So in fact the biologists themselves are responsible for disproving evolution, but many of them refuse to discuss the fundamentals because of high emotions and prestige.

 

There is no human being randomly created by mutations over millions of years. Like OP´s statement about the water plant evolving into a human being - it does not exist since that can not happen according to the mathematical laws of genetics.

 

Evolution is a political theory created by Catholics(Jesuits) to control people.

 

I am claiming Gods/Buddhas/Daos created heaven and earth from their positions in the higher dimensions. All animals and plants etc exist for human beings. When one is a human being in complete illusion one has a unique chance to cultivate up to high dimensions, that is what Samsara is all about and that is why it is said in Buddhism one should value time in one´s life because a human body is very hard to come by.

 

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Gauss

[Gauss]

And who cares about the afterlife? Knowing karma creates fear in people like you of not doing virtuous things: oh no! I may not have good afterlives. Lame. Lame spirituality. Karmic debts: lame.

 

That is up to each person to judge.

 

In the near future I believe people will consider each action very carefully again, just like in the old days.. Wu Wei - going with the flow of nature, actions without intent and pursuit is the way of the future world.

 

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.

[Lucky7Strikes]

That is up to each person to judge.

 

In the near future I believe people will consider each action very carefully again, just like in the old days.. Wu Wei - going with the flow of nature, actions without intent and pursuit is the way of the future world.

 

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.

Wu Wei is exactly as you say. To not give a damn about the afterlife.

 

Consider each action is only a stage in cultivation. Ideally, your actions should just flow from your being effortlessly.

[Gauss]

[Marblehead]

WoW! You folks stayed busy with this after I went to bed last night.

 

I am curious a Taoist perspective of how the two creation verses evolution fit together. To me Evolution is the yin body of creation that has the potential for

linear experience and Creation non-linear counterpart Yang. One timeless the other time-full. Between the two is the truest perspective that cannot be argued for or against. The past from this non linear perspective has two branches .

 

I wrote this wondering Creation the TTB member perspective on which of the two

or combination of fits best with your own awareness of Tao and or Taoism.

 

This is a fair question.

 

TTC, Chapter 42, Line 1:

 

The Way gave birth to the One.

 

Some may see this as a creation factor. I don't. Personally, I think that the TTC does not specifically define a beginning and therefore avoids the question of "First Cause".

 

Of course, I believe that the TTC is consistent with evolution but others obviously have their own opinions.

[Marblehead]

I am pro both. CREATION AND EVOLUTION.

 

I grew up with the EVOLUTION of personal computers. I saw two different species EVOLVING: PC and MAC. I saw the EVOLUTION of Windows and MAC OS. But they were CREATED by humans. THEY DID NOT EVOLVED BY THEMSELVES! They were CREATED by a superior intelligence who made them more and more complex.

 

I see my own CREATIONS how they EVOLVE, my own software programs that I make. So my point is this: No-one denies the facts of evolution, there is plenty of undeniable evidence, but the theory of EVOLUTION BY ITSELF. The species diversify because SOMEONE made them. Once they are CREATED they EVOLVE. They were ENGINEERED. Any engineering process evolves but with the participation of a conscious and intelligent mind.That is all.

 

Hi Steam,

 

Thanks for joining in. I have no problem with what you said. Of course, my understanding is different but that doesn't matter.

 

I hold to that final statement from the Carl Sagan video.

 

Yes, life is very complex. But it happened.

[Marblehead]

With all due respect there are 700 top level scientists worldwide actively launching a campaign to seriously question the evolution theory, there is not a single scientist on the list who can see real truth in it.

 

 

Okay, there are 700 creationists who have scientific degrees of one profession or another who doubt the fact of evolution.

 

What does that prove? Nothing more than that they are religious people who believe in creationism.

 

 

There will always be those who don't want their bubble busted.

 

 

BTW I just did a search and there are 5.8 million scientists presently on this planet. That means that only .0001206 percent of those with scientific degrees are questioning evoliution. Pretty insignificant percentage IMO.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

Mathematicians do know maths(I actually studied a decent level of university maths in those days so I know my limitations) and they have shown over and over again that random mutations over million of years never could generate human beings - it is mathematically impossible when you dig into the genetic data and calculate probabilities(probability is zip zero for evolution to ever have happened)..

 

 

I will first apologize for what I am about to say.

 

That is bullshit.

 

It has also been shown that black holes cannot exist. But they do. There is one massive black hole at the center of every spiral galaxy.

 

Science is an evolving process. There is still so much more to learn.

[Marblehead]

Evolution is a political theory created by Catholics(Jesuits) to control people.

 

Evolution is a fact. All gods have been created by an evolved man.

[manitou]

The last part is your interpretation.

 

In my opinion the real cause of Wu-Wei is that a high-level cultivator perfectly knows that all of his actions will give major consequences in higher dimensions(his afterlife level or "world"), hence he goes with the flow of nature not to lower his afterlife level.

 

 

Please tell me you're not ascribing the reason for wu-wei as the same one used in the Jesus Club where they get a Get Out Of Jail Free card in the 'afterlife'. Wu-wei is here now.

[三江源]

You presence gives some warmth to this ice-cold thread.

 

 

Actually, people who are abrasive bear the the burden for an abrasive atmosphere.

 

FYI, I was considering posting on topic, but apparently my opinion is irrelevant because I didn't make it past high school, not to mention being well under 40 and having access to the internet since I was 13, and that I am a Neanderthal (or was it Stone-Ager?) for questioning the scientific establishment.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Ha, Creation, same to you about your presence. Enjoying your full spectrum lucidity. Congratulations on having the head - heart link and knowing the value of that.

 

Blasto, on a board about cultivation to assess 'manners' as about merely 'being nice' and being unable to perceive what it means to be able to be that way... uuh.

[Marblehead]

Ha, Creation, same to you about your presence. Enjoying your full spectrum lucidity. Congratulations on having the head - heart link and knowing the value of that.

 

Blasto, on a board about cultivation to assess 'manners' as about merely 'being nice' and being unable to perceive what it means to be able to be that way... uuh.

 

Hehehe. Isn't it neat that we each have our own individual personalities?

 

I love variety. Everything the same is so boring.

 

(Not trying to defend Blasto. That's his to do if he feels the need.)

[joeblast]

 

 

It has also been shown that black holes cannot exist. But they do. There is one massive black hole at the center of every spiral galaxy.

The first black holes conceived of were also non-rotating!

[三江源]

Hehehe. Isn't it neat that we each have our own individual personalities?

 

I love variety. Everything the same is so boring.

 

(Not trying to defend Blasto. That's his to do if he feels the need.)

 

Everything the same is so boring.

 

Hi Marblehead.. I havent come across a situation in which people dont have their own personalities or in which everything is the same, even in teenage groups where peer pressure is high and cliques the prevalent mode, all people are different, just as all kittens in a litter are unique despite their essential cat nature.

 

Where have you found everything the same, outside of chainstores?

[Marblehead]

The first black holes conceived of were also non-rotating!

 

Yeah, if I remember correctly, Einstein theorized their existance but he refused to believe his own work and disnissed the theory as an error in his math.

[Gauss]

I will first apologize for what I am about to say.

 

That is bullshit.

 

It has also been shown that black holes cannot exist. But they do. There is one massive black hole at the center of every spiral galaxy.

 

Science is an evolving process. There is still so much more to learn.

 

First people say that science proves evolution as a "fact"...

 

When evolution is disproved by calculus people say science is not so developed...

 

Of course science is not so developed, you are right, it is extremely flawed in its limited foundation(I investigate only what I can see or touch).

 

How was it, is evolution politics or religion or rather both(Christianity sure is both and most of all politics)?

 

It sure isn´t "science" as science is defined in the school book.

 

Extremely few people analyze why they hold certain beliefs as a human being.

 

Is it just that role they have been assigned by Gods or do people really believe they rule their own thoughts and have opinions on "their own"? Is it not the higher beings who control their thoughts. In the case of a person with massive karma, demons will control him. In the case of a person with great virtue Gods will control him.

 

I mean we have Yin-Yang, Plus-Minus, Gods-Demons, Karma-Virtue. They always come in pairs and each human being must be put in his proper place, mostly depending on his inborn quality.

 

PS: The 700 scientists are the ones that actually musterred the energy and courage to publicly go against it. Do you know how bad it can be for a scientist in a politically controlled environment as a university to go against evolution?

 

He risks loosing his job and will get no promotions whatsoever.

 

You need to multiply that number with thousands or more to get anywhere near the true number of scientists that mock the evolution theory behind closed doors... I never heard of any mathematician ever that actually even tried to do any calculus proof in favor of evolution.

 

As far as I remember we even had calculus examples at university mocking that theory by calculation of probabilities.

 

Darwin and the evolution theory is just a political invention to control people, making them more materialistic and less spiritually inclined so that people become worse and worse. That is partly how two world wars and lots of revolutions came about.

 

I must say that I believe a human body assembles information over the ages so it definitely is not the same as it was 10 000 years ago. But that is another question..

 

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Gauss

[Marblehead]

Everything the same is so boring.

 

Where have you found everything the same, outside of chainstores?

 

Yeah, those wonderful Wal-Mart stores. Hehehe.

 

Fortunately I see few instances where everything is the same. True, at their core, many things are the same but in our 'reality' there exists this wonder of variety.

 

This is the root of much of my arguements in this thread. I really don't care how many people belive in Creationism and I really don't care what, if any, religion the members of this board believe in.

 

But I will argue till my dying breath against trying to negate a matter of fact for the purpose of forcing a myth into the minds of other people. This is, afterall, a Taoist oriented board and we all who seek understanding (I have a hard time using the word 'enlightenment') are supposed to be free thinkers.

[三江源]

Yeah, those wonderful Wal-Mart stores. Hehehe.

 

Fortunately I see few instances where everything is the same. True, at their core, many things are the same but in our 'reality' there exists this wonder of variety.

 

This is the root of much of my arguements in this thread. I really don't care how many people belive in Creationism and I really don't care what, if any, religion the members of this board believe in.

 

But I will argue till my dying breath against trying to negate a matter of fact for the purpose of forcing a myth into the minds of other people. This is, afterall, a Taoist oriented board and we all who seek understanding (I have a hard time using the word 'enlightenment') are supposed to be free thinkers.

 

Yes, if we truly knew what was myth and what wasnt, everything would be so much easier. If we actually knew what the origination of myth was, if we understood the very root of those ancient paradigms, wouldnt it be terrific. If we had access to profound shamanic awareness which could access deepest awareness and lost memories. Then we would understand myth, with an understanding way beyond the parts of the brain we usually rely upon, we would understand it in our cellular being and our higher selves. And with such understanding perhaps we could achieve free thought.

[joeblast]

Yeah, if I remember correctly, Einstein theorized their existance but he refused to believe his own work and disnissed the theory as an error in his math.

True, BHs were but a spark in Einstein's eye. He was pretty entrenched in some of his beliefs though, his dismissal of QM was what made his late years so unproductive...the bane of overconfidence!

Karl Sschwarzchild made the first real modern prediction of one - I particularly liked kip thorne's re-telling in Black Holes & Time Warps