Needs and Wants

[Aaron]

Hello folks,

 

In a different thread Marblehead asked me to start a thread about this topic. I apologize for taking so long to do it, I've had a busy schedule, but luckily I have a few days off, so since I don't have an early bedtime tonight, I thought I might give it a go.

 

I think for most people there is this struggle within us that causes us to mistake needs and wants. We often see something as a need, when in fact it isn't. Many of us have a hard time determining what a need is. We add up all the things we need, without realizing that what we actually need is a very slim list.

 

What we actually need in life is a very small list of things, those things are food, warmth, and nurturing. These are the same things we need as children and they don't change as we grow older. When we lack one of these things our lives can quickly become a mess.

 

So the question is, if the list is so small, how do we confuse it with all these other things that we've come to believe are needs? Well the answer is that we are taught to believe that all these other things are needs. We need an education. We need a good paying job. We need to work hard. We need to get find our true love. The list goes on, but I'll stop there.

 

As small children we were taught that these things are needs, that in order for our lives to have purpose that these things are required to give it purpose. We are not given the opportunity to question this, after all in school we are taught that an A is better than an F, that success is really the only option that we should strive for. We are taught at home that we should dress in a certain way, that our socks should match, as should our shoes. That we wear pants for certain occasions, shorts for others, and that the clothes we wear should be color coordinated. It doesn't seem to matter that even if we go outside with two different shoes on, a yellow shirt and pink pants, that it will still keep us warm, what seems to matter is how we appear.

 

The same goes for education and a good paying job. We need an education and a good job, because without it, we can't afford to live a life that presents ourselves to the world as successful people. Again we never think that all we really need to do is earn or do enough to provide food for ourselves and shelter, because that isn't succeeding.

 

In the same way we are taught that when we reach a certain age we should meet that significant someone and settle down and start a family. That somehow doing this is necessary, yet never for a moment do we stop and think that in this time and age, with the world on the brink of overpopulation, we are actually doing the world a service by abstaining from having children. We never think that "true love" isn't a necessity, that as long as we have nurturing relationships with those around us, that we are doing quite well.

 

We fail to understand that a relationship with one's peers, one that allows one to feel safe and secure, one that allows us to offer ourselves to others and receive help when it is needed, is more than sufficient, in fact it is all that is needed.

 

We are caught in the grips of our own identity, the measure by which we expose ourselves to the world. We are aspiring doctors, lawyers, plumbers, and cooks. We are aspiring mothers, fathers, and lovers. We rarely stop to think about what we really are and instead try to meet the requirements of the person we've been taught we are.

 

When I mentioned that understanding one's place in the universe, one's connection to everything else in existence, helps us to understand the difference between needs and wants, what I meant is that we begin to see all these things for what they are, a carefully crafted play that we've been drafted to play a part in.

 

When you choose to stop playing this part, to step off the stage and view the play for what it is, you begin to see that those things that are on that stage are merely props, that the sole purpose of those props is to present to your audience the splendor of your life, your part, your dramatic and comedic flourish of existence. Yet we don't even realize that this existence isn't real, in the sense that it's not serving us a purpose, merely the illusion of a purpose. We keep coming back every night, devoted actors, continuing this ongoing drama, never understanding that the drama isn't satisfying our needs, but denying us our needs.

 

We are supplanting necessity with desire, needs with wants. When we look at it clearly and objectively we can see how hard we've worked to provide those props, how much time we've spent to perfect our parts, yet we've never really understood who we really are.

 

We are creatures, not of habit, but of existence. Creatures of an existence so simple, that to think of its simplicity is frightening, because the simplicity is so bare, it is almost empty. The idea that so long as I'm fed and warm, so long as I have those around me that I can trust and can trust me, that I can be happy, seems not only ludicrous, but impossible.

 

When I talk about understanding the difference, truly understanding it, I'm not talking about coming to a rational understanding, but rather understanding at your very core, that there need not be a core, that there need not be anything that defines you, except for that part of you that has been there all along. I talk about understanding who you really are, not who you've come to believe you are. And once you understand who you really are, then you can see that all these things that you've placed value on can be stolen, that the only thing you truly have that can never be stolen is you. That the true purpose is to provide for that true self, to feed and keep warm your body and soul, to nourish it with loving relationships. Not to cultivate anything, but rather allow yourself to grow as you are meant to grow.

 

When you can do that, then you can not only understand the difference between needs and wants, but also who you are meant to be.

 

Aaron

Edited March 29, 2011 by Twinner

[henro]

I get around this whole thing by saying "need" is a flexible word . . . . .

[aridus]

My thought is that they are the same thing divided by perceptions.

[z00se]

My thought is that they are the same thing divided by perceptions.

 

EXACTELY!

 

I need a house paid off so that i can live in harmony with the world and not need to work for it any more. Once it is paid off i have less commitments to that and my family i can enjoy the rest of the time cultivating if i want, or to do whatever i want. I think a house is a major thing. But the thing is anyone could take over your country at any stage and you wouldn't have any house left, there could be other people living in your house and you worked your whole life to pay it off!!!

 

Well when you have a family i think the thought is different from when you are single. Even though you might not need money the other people might. It's my job to train them not to rely on money but at the same time a certain amount is needed.

 

So the question is, if the list is so small, how do we confuse it with all these other things that we've come to believe are needs? Well the answer is that we are taught to believe that all these other things are needs. We need an education. We need a good paying job. We need to work hard. We need to get find our true love. The list goes on, but I'll stop there.

 

The risk runs of becomming too YIN. Maybe i am too yang and my thoughts indicate my inate purpose. Make an excuse for my yang ways but it is my being. We yang here are to keep the yin at work. To stop them becomming stale. We need to continue to work to make this world unlivable.

 

My recent thought is that the 2012 prophecy is the decline of life, humans the ultimate race on earth will reduce quickly. Life will decrease very fast at the start, but later as it began the change of life quantity will be very slow.

 

The meek will finally inherit the earth.

[manitou]

The meek will finally inherit the earth

 

I can't help but think we're watching this happening now - all over the world. At the present time, they're not so meek - but I think what the biblical passage refers to is the lowly man, the everyday man, anybody but a dictator or heavyhanded king.

 

Aaron, what beautifully written thoughts. As someone who has utilized the 12 steps of recovery for nigh on to 30 years now, the distinction between need and want is something that is a topic of conversation in meetings often - for the very reason that it's our wants that keep us sort of forked up.

 

It is the point between need and want that Gratitude separates. If we find a way to be grateful for everything in our lives at the present time -= to take care of everything we have in the present moment - goes a long way toward peace of mind. The very things we take for granted - the fact that we have a home when so many in the world live in hovels - are certain points of gratitude.

 

One reason I think the need (or want) for a mate messes us with us so badly, is that you have to Be the person you want to Be With. My guess is that about 90% of the people in the world spend their lives looking for that Someone that is going to fix them and make them feel whole. We here know that's an individual job, done from the inside. No one can do it for us. We are reflections of each other. Another way of putting it, is that The Intelligence will always give us what we Need, not necessarily what we think we Want. If we have a destructive tendency inside to be emotionally unavailable for some reason, The Intelligence will continue bringing forward the situation until it is worked through.

 

It's very possible to work through all the negative and remain in the relationship, which is what Joe and I have done. Thankfully, we're both long time recovery people, so it makes it a little easier to look at ourselves.

 

There have been many times we've tried to split up, only to come back together in tremendous gratitude for having each other. This gratitude has only grown over the years. Even having tremendous gratitude and caring for the car in our driveway that may have 100,000 miles on it - it is this that will give us peace of heart as well - knowing full well that the Intelligence will always provide, somehow, when the time is right. Conditions will appear.

 

If we try too hard to make our Wants happen, we're keeping our eye off the ball. We allow ourselves to remain in a state of unrest. I remember from my old biblical days "Do not covet your neighbor's (whatever)". Maybe this was given as a commandment for this very reason - that it messes with our peace of heart. (Although I don't particularly remember anything in the commandments or anyplace else in the Bible that talks much about personal inner development, other than the words of Jesus, which seem to me have been pretty grossly misinterpreted by our current crop of organized Christianity).

 

Gratitude is key. If we find more gratitude for what's here now, the rest will fall into place one day at a time. Opportunities will arise and fall into your lap.

[Marblehead]

Hi Aaron,

 

Thanks for the thread and I must say, very well written.

 

I suggest that there realy are only three 'basic' needs:

 

Food (including water)

 

Shelter (including clothing)

 

Security (including both physical and psychological)

 

All our wants feed off these three basic needs.

 

Then question then is, "How much is enough?"

 

Excluding what we are conditioned to believe, this question, "How mucn", is a matter of personal preferrence.

 

But I will suggest that the more we feel we "need" the longer it will take us to find 'peace and contentment'.

 

Now, sure, I have the advantage of already having everything I need. Perhaps it is an unfair advantage when I am speaking with people who are much younger than I am. I am sure it is.

 

However, for each of us, we must make the decision as to what is enough. If we feel we don't have enough then our needs are not yet satisfied. Therefore we must continue to push ourselves until we attain these unrealized 'needs'.

 

I think that the sooner in life we can define our 'true' needs the sooner we will be able to find contentment.

[Aaron]

My thought is that they are the same thing divided by perceptions.

 

 

Hello Aridus,

 

When I define need, I define it as a necessity for existence. A flat screen tv for instance isn't a necessity, food is. Just clarifying. I can't really see how your perception of these changes changes anything. I hope life is treating you well.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

If I want to live, I need to eat.

 

To me, needs foster wants.

 

Hello Rainbow Vein,

 

If you use want in that context, yes they do. I am advocating necessities vs. desires. If we want food because we're hungry, that is a necessity. If we want food because we're bored, that is a desire. Now if we are not fulfilling our basic needs, the one that seems to be the most often unfulfilled is the desire for security, as marblehead describes it, and nurturing, as I call it, then we may end up looking for other avenues to fill that "void". We feel lonely, so we eat more, exchanging one need for another.

 

Anyways, my main point is that people oftentimes mistake the material items in their possessions as necessities for existence, when in fact they aren't. We oftentimes mistake the need to work seventy hour work weeks as a necessity, when it isn't. It is this mistaken belief that causes us much misery in life, that is not needed.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Hi Aaron,

 

Thanks for the thread and I must say, very well written.

 

I suggest that there realy are only three 'basic' needs:

 

Food (including water)

 

Shelter (including clothing)

 

Security (including both physical and psychological)

 

All our wants feed off these three basic needs.

 

Then question then is, "How much is enough?"

 

Excluding what we are conditioned to believe, this question, "How mucn", is a matter of personal preferrence.

 

But I will suggest that the more we feel we "need" the longer it will take us to find 'peace and contentment'.

 

Now, sure, I have the advantage of already having everything I need. Perhaps it is an unfair advantage when I am speaking with people who are much younger than I am. I am sure it is.

 

However, for each of us, we must make the decision as to what is enough. If we feel we don't have enough then our needs are not yet satisfied. Therefore we must continue to push ourselves until we attain these unrealized 'needs'.

 

I think that the sooner in life we can define our 'true' needs the sooner we will be able to find contentment.

 

 

Hello Marblehead,

 

Very interesting points. I called the third point nurturing because I think it involves more than just security, but I do feel security is a part of it. In regard to making a decision of what is enough, I think for the vast majority of people, this can't be achieved, because they aren't even aware of what is actually necessary and what isn't. I hope life is treating you well.

 

Aaron

[aridus]

Hello Aridus,

 

When I define need, I define it as a necessity for existence. A flat screen tv for instance isn't a necessity, food is. Just clarifying. I can't really see how your perception of these changes changes anything. I hope life is treating you well.

 

Aaron

I understand. And I agree that necessity is what it is.

 

But I have also seen that one can need what one wants, and want what one needs.

 

Things are dependent on other things, but not all things which necessitate something else are themselves necessary.

 

I think there comes a time, for some, to not live, but they impose their will anyway to do what they want and not what is needed (to live)

 

I look at need/want on a universal scale. At this point the distinction becomes vague.

[Otis]

I suggest that there realy are only three 'basic' needs:

 

Food (including water)

 

Shelter (including clothing)

 

Security (including both physical and psychological)

Yes, and #4: a place to go to the bathroom!

[Otis]

When you choose to stop playing this part, to step off the stage and view the play for what it is, you begin to see that those things that are on that stage are merely props, that the sole purpose of those props is to present to your audience the splendor of your life, your part, your dramatic and comedic flourish of existence. Yet we don't even realize that this existence isn't real, in the sense that it's not serving us a purpose, merely the illusion of a purpose. We keep coming back every night, devoted actors, continuing this ongoing drama, never understanding that the drama isn't satisfying our needs, but denying us our needs.

Excellent OP, Aaron; I'm in complete agreement.

 

Personally, I was raised by sober short-haired Xtian hippies, so I was taught away from the "wants". My parents would say: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without."

 

Which is all great, but I've found that, as consequence, I actually have to train myself toward the material world, toward learning how to make the boss feel special, how to pay attention to the mirror and proper grooming, how to recognize what other egos want. Not because these things are needs, per se, but because my needs (food and shelter) are relatively dependent on being able to make a living. Because emotional closeness is possible when I take care of other people's egos, not when I ignore them.

 

In other words, I don't want to chase empty desires, looking for fulfillment. But I also don't want to ignore the tao of society, out of principle of living by my own tao. I think there's a balance to be struck.

[aridus]

In other words, I don't want to chase empty desires, looking for fulfillment. But I also don't want to ignore the tao of society, out of principle of living by my own tao. I think there's a balance to be struck.

Precisely.

[Marblehead]

Hello Marblehead,

 

Very interesting points. I called the third point nurturing because I think it involves more than just security, but I do feel security is a part of it.

 

Yes, that arguement and suggestion has been presented to me a number of times before and I have decided to just lump it in with security. Love is another one that is frequently suggested so I have dumped that into the security basket as well.

 

I hope life is treating you well.

 

Aaron

 

Hehehe. All things considered, it is treating me very well. I want more rain for my fish ponds but I can always use the utility water so it's not a need, just a want.

[Marblehead]

But I have also seen that one can need what one wants, and want what one needs.

 

I think that this is an understanding that should not be overlooked.

[Aaron]

Yes, that arguement and suggestion has been presented to me a number of times before and I have decided to just lump it in with security. Love is another one that is frequently suggested so I have dumped that into the security basket as well.

 

I lump security and love in with nurturing, so we just choose a different word to describe our general belief.

 

Hehehe. All things considered, it is treating me very well. I want more rain for my fish ponds but I can always use the utility water so it's not a need, just a want.

 

Well I would think the water is a necessity for the fish. Anyways, I'm glad things are going well for you.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Excellent OP, Aaron; I'm in complete agreement.

 

Personally, I was raised by sober short-haired Xtian hippies, so I was taught away from the "wants". My parents would say: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without."

 

Which is all great, but I've found that, as consequence, I actually have to train myself toward the material world, toward learning how to make the boss feel special, how to pay attention to the mirror and proper grooming, how to recognize what other egos want. Not because these things are needs, per se, but because my needs (food and shelter) are relatively dependent on being able to make a living. Because emotional closeness is possible when I take care of other people's egos, not when I ignore them.

 

In other words, I don't want to chase empty desires, looking for fulfillment. But I also don't want to ignore the tao of society, out of principle of living by my own tao. I think there's a balance to be struck.

 

 

Hello Otis,

 

I think people tend to take things to extremes, but that's not what I'm advocating here. I'm not saying that people need to return to a minimalist lifestyle, rather, as Manitou pointed out, we need to be grateful for what we do have. We need to appreciate when we do have enough and perhaps stop looking for goods and items to fill some void that really isn't there. In the end it's up to us to decide how we want to live our lives. Materialism has its merits, but it will only take you so far. The same with spirituality. What's needed is a middle ground, the ability to recognize what's needed at a particular time to solve a particular problem. If one understands what's necessary and what is just a desire, then they can intuitively understand what the answer to their problem is. (Keep in mind this isn't just for our materialistic needs, but also emotional and spiritual needs.)

 

Aaron

Edited March 29, 2011 by Twinner