Understanding energy experiences

[andrew]

Hi All,

 

This could be a long post, but the basics are simple to state, so I'll keep it as short as i can.

 

I became aware of the power of our cultural conditioning towards sex and started to understand how to let go of compulsion and become aware of it as an energy rather than a need.

 

through moderation (I'm married) and a complete lack of fantasizing I became aware of a heat energy rising in my chest when sitting. It seemed that it was related to letting go of the 'sex as need' thoughts.

 

As I practice Calm- Abiding meditation, such feelings are generally seen as fabrications and to be observed, nothing more. However, I am wondering about Qi and this experience, wondering if they are infact what I have recently read about in Taoism as a potential path of awakening.

 

I have Gold Flower on order (I currently have a pdf copy, not sure who translated it) so I will be exploring further, but any advice / thoughts are appreciated.

 

By the way, I don't sit down and seek out this experience, it has arisen on it's own. I just watch the breath and calm the body. I don't achieve samadhi in any great way, so I'm looking at options on how to use this experience to deepen meditation.

 

thanks

 

andrew

Edited March 30, 2011 by andrew

[GreytoWhite]

Andrew, I would recommend looking into Spring Forest Qigong as it is one of the simplest courses of energy usage I have encountered.

[torus693]

Hi All,

 

This could be a long post, but the basics are simple to state, so I'll keep it as short as i can.

 

I became aware of the power of our cultural conditioning towards sex and started to understand how to let go of compulsion and become aware of it as an energy rather than a need.

 

through moderation (I'm married) and a complete lack of fantasizing I became aware of a heat energy rising in my chest when sitting. It seemed that it was related to letting go of the 'sex as need' thoughts.

 

As I practice Calm- Abiding meditation, such feelings are generally seen as fabrications and to be observed, nothing more. However, I am wondering about Qi and this experience, wondering if they are infact what I have recently read about in Taoism as a potential path of awakening.

 

I have Gold Flower on order (I currently have a pdf copy, not sure who translated it) so I will be exploring further, but any advice / thoughts are appreciated.

 

By the way, I don't sit down and seek out this experience, it has arisen on it's own. I just watch the breath and calm the body. I don't achieve samadhi in any great way, so I'm looking at options on how to use this experience to deepen meditation.

 

thanks

 

andrew

thats a great story, very natural awakening.

[andrew]

thankyou MithShrike. Torus.

 

I hadn't thought of getting into Qigong, but i will check out a few exercises. It may be good to do this in the mornings as I find it hard to get settled sitting in the morning. It definitely sounds good, I assume it is this site you are talking about?

 

thanks

 

andrew

[Encephalon]

As I practice Calm- Abiding meditation, such feelings are generally seen as fabrications and to be observed, nothing more. However, I am wondering about Qi and this experience, wondering if they are infact what I have recently read about in Taoism as a potential path of awakening.

 

Greetings. I can't comment on the nature of your feelings, but sensing one's chi flow comes with specific routines practiced consistently over time. It took several months for me to get to the point where I first acquired the ability to manipulate energy and sensation in my fingers, and three years before I could move it throughout my limbs, head, torso at will. I'm only in my fourth year, but my experience and rate of progress seems to be consistent with the average population of practitioners.

 

There are a half dozen books that are regularly recommended for beginners, and since spending money on books is what I do best, I bought all of them! But "The Complete Book of Chinese Health and Healing" by Daniel Reid was the most comprehensive and really dug deeply to answer the questions you're posing. Besides, he's one of your countrymen, living in Byron Bay, which is only about 3,600 kilometers from you, so please, give him my regards!

 

I practice an internal form of chi kung called nei kung. At www.neikungla.com you'll find an extremely informative but concise explanation of the practice. Chi has pretty much been identified as bioelectromagnetism, so if you're a westerner looking for a bridge to the chi phenomenon, Reid's book will be a lot of fun.

 

Best wishes!

[GreytoWhite]

thankyou MithShrike. Torus.

 

I hadn't thought of getting into Qigong, but i will check out a few exercises. It may be good to do this in the mornings as I find it hard to get settled sitting in the morning. It definitely sounds good, I assume it is this site you are talking about?

 

thanks

 

andrew

 

Andrew, yes that is the site for their coursework. Another good, free book to read is linked below.

 

http://globalqiproject.com/the-eight-extraordinary-meridians.html

[The Way Is Virtue]

Hi Andrew. You can experience various things when meditating such as sensations or images or other visual stuff. I think that is not too unusual in meditation practice. It is good to follow one particular meditation system if you can though. Can you clarify what specifically you are looking for more info on?

Edited March 30, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[The Way Is Virtue]

.

Edited March 30, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[NeiChuan]

Hi Way is Virtue, you edited your post (!) before I could add a comment from a prominent qigong/martial arts teacher.

 

 

A few good articles about important qigong, energy and IMA concepts can be read at his YMAA website.

 

Basic Concepts of Qi and Qigong - Part 1

Basic Concepts of Qi and Qigong - Part 2

Two Keys for Regulating Your Breathing and Circulating Qi

Other YMAA articles

 

Ya, I really like Yangs input. His books are very good too, there's few things that I disagree on. But yeah overall he describes things very well.

[The Way Is Virtue]

Hi Way is Virtue, you edited your post (!) before I could add a comment from a prominent qigong/martial arts teacher.

"The Qi in our bodies is actually bioelectricity, and our bodies are a living electromagnetic field."

--Yang, Jwing Ming

A few good articles about important qigong, energy and IMA concepts can be read at his YMAA website.

Basic Concepts of Qi and Qigong - Part 1

Basic Concepts of Qi and Qigong - Part 2

Two Keys for Regulating Your Breathing and Circulating Qi

Other YMAA articles

 

Hi RV. Thanks, I decided to remove my comment on this because I didn't want to risk sidetracking Andrew's thread. It is one thing to make a claim like this and quite another thing to be able to prove it, but I don't wish to sidetrack this thread so i will leave it at that. I will check out those links though...

Edited March 30, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[doc benway]

Hi All,

 

This could be a long post, but the basics are simple to state, so I'll keep it as short as i can.

 

I became aware of the power of our cultural conditioning towards sex and started to understand how to let go of compulsion and become aware of it as an energy rather than a need.

 

through moderation (I'm married) and a complete lack of fantasizing I became aware of a heat energy rising in my chest when sitting. It seemed that it was related to letting go of the 'sex as need' thoughts.

 

As I practice Calm- Abiding meditation, such feelings are generally seen as fabrications and to be observed, nothing more. However, I am wondering about Qi and this experience, wondering if they are infact what I have recently read about in Taoism as a potential path of awakening.

 

I have Gold Flower on order (I currently have a pdf copy, not sure who translated it) so I will be exploring further, but any advice / thoughts are appreciated.

 

By the way, I don't sit down and seek out this experience, it has arisen on it's own. I just watch the breath and calm the body. I don't achieve samadhi in any great way, so I'm looking at options on how to use this experience to deepen meditation.

 

thanks

 

andrew

 

Welcome Andrew - nice post. I would suggest that you continue along your present course.

You will learn much more by doing than reading.

Depending on your conditioning you can begin to categorize and label what your experience is in Daoist, Hindu, Christian, Jewish, or Buddhist terms. They are just incomplete descriptions of the reality.

A more focused method of cultivation can be useful depending on your goals but, IMO, the goal and the restricted method is an obstacle we create which eventually leads us back to the beginning.

If you continue on your present path, I am confident that you will continue to grow.

Namaste

[GreytoWhite]

More information on possible Western physical interpretations of qi. I personally think of the sensations of qi as a byproduct of systems interaction within and outside of the body.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110328092508.htm

 

 

http://www.universal-tao.com/article/science.html

[andrew]

Thankyou very much everyone, I will be a while digesting all of that but I certainly feel alot of it resonating with me.

 

Just so it's clear, I'm assuming what I'm feeling is chi, I don't have any training to know one way or the other and I certainly don't see it as any great accomplishment, I'm happy however to be aware of energy as I have never been much of an 'energy' person. For all I know, this is how other 'normal' people feel all the time!

 

i just suspect it is chi because it appeared first in the middle of my chest and I thought it was anger or frustration. Once I stopped calling it these abstract names, I became aware of it's hot nature and it began to spread through my chest and arms. At one stage I thought 'is it a blockage of Qi?' so i stopped focusing on the centre of my chest and it did seem to move upwards. Eventually over a matter of minutes it was in my throat and then my head. After that it sort of dissipated.

 

when I sit though, it is back where it started. Again, I don't sit and consciously try and get this happening, I just calm myself as best as possible through watching the breath. The guys who taught me calm-abiding would say it is my ego trying to trick me or just my conditioning unwinding etc, which is why I'm not asking them!

 

The info I'm looking for is a bit of a case of I don't know what I don't know! So I'm very glad to get the input given here. I'm not going to stop Calm-abiding or the general instructions of 'letting go' of these things, but I would like to understand an energy work system and see if it assists in relaxing me so I may deepen my sitting meditation. It seems to me that it would be better to incorporate these feelings rather than just wonder at them, which I think is more distracting.

 

So many good points have been made, thanks again.

 

respect and peace

 

andrew

 

Edit: TWIV Go ahead and sidetrack the thread now, it sounds interesting!

Edited March 31, 2011 by andrew

[The Way Is Virtue]

The info I'm looking for is a bit of a case of I don't know what I don't know! So I'm very glad to get the input given here. I'm not going to stop Calm-abiding or the general instructions of 'letting go' of these things, but I would like to understand an energy work system and see if it assists in relaxing me so I may deepen my sitting meditation. It seems to me that it would be better to incorporate these feelings rather than just wonder at them, which I think is more distracting.

So many good points have been made, thanks again.

respect and peace

andrew

 

Hi Andrew. It sounds to me like you are taking a good approach to it all. From what you have described, the sensations you are feeling do sound like the sensations that can be produced by the movement of qi within the body. So, this can certainly be considered as a possible sign that your meditation is effective. You will probably find that from that basic starting point different people will likely have somewhat different views on how one should proceed from that point. Some might say that you should shift your awareness to some area or point on your body. Others might say that you should try to use your mind to try to control your qi to some extent or other. Others might say you should not pay attention to any sensations or vibrations or movement or images, etc., and just continue on without attaching the mind to anything that is happening and allow things to progress as they will. The reason for these diiferent perspectives is there are many different traditions and variations of traditions, and even different understandings, and thus many different points of view. Things could get more confusing rather than clearer. I think it never hurts to educate onself a bit on different traditions and techniques and try to find something that seems to resonate with you after you have a broader overview of various traditions and approaches, and can do some informed comparison. On the other hand, you may just come across something right from the start that resonates with you and works for you and you are all set right from the start.

 

Since this is a Taoist discussion forum I will say that a common Taoist approach to meditation usually (at least starts out) with one keeping an awareness to some degree or other (not a strong or forced focus) on the lower dan tian area, which is usually described as being an area inward a few inches from the navel, although there are some variations on where it is described as being located. Combining this with relaxed, smooth and deep natural breathing is a good way to naturally build up more qi. This does not require any special effort or intention or direction from the mind. As the qi begins to naturally build up more and circulate more freely throughout the body, one tends to naturally start to become more relaxed and calm and can naturally start going into deeper states of meditation. You can do this sort of meditation standing or sitting, or even walking or lying down. However, as I mentioned, I think you will find all sorts of variations on this basic theme. Some methods using special breathing, and some using special mind intent to try to direct qi, etc.

Hope this provides some help to you, and good luck in your practice...

Edited March 31, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[andrew]

thankyou TWIV,

 

I am focusing on the rise and fall of my belly when breathing, so it would seem then that I have been building Qi without knowing it. Certainly then what you say is true; it is a natural process that requires no mental involvement.

 

It is because Taoism seems the most relaxed and holistic that I am investigating in this direction. My previous desires to experience energy all came to nothing, so I for the most part I just ignored any further learning for many years. I'm actually quite happy I know very little as it allows me to progress without trying to live up to a preconceived set of beliefs about Qi. Or more accurately, what I know is general and non-specific and probably not much more than any well read person.

 

What is your opinion of The Secret of the Golden Flower? I have been reading JJ Semple's site and he links it with Kundalini, which sort of attracts me and scares me at the same time! Because I believe this started when I was able to accept that sex was not a need, and that much of how it is treated in our culture was exploiting me, and not natural at all, I have continued to not fantasize and be moderate in general.

 

As it is a very real thing happening, I don't want to stumble on, 'making it up as I go', I'm already risking going in circles as it is! Though in reality, it is probably too late for that.

 

I suppose the simplest question is; Has studying Qi brought you to deeper levels of Samadhi when meditating?

This is probably why I'm not just 'letting it go' and investigating at all, I'm hoping for a more effective use of my time and hoping to 'supercharge' my progress somehow.

 

At the moment I sit in the morning for an hour and the evening for an hour. It doesn't seem though I can get beyond being relaxed, which is good, but I don't see anymore time magically becoming available so I'm hoping this isn't a distraction but rather a path to enhancing the effectiveness of what time I do have.

 

cheers

 

andrew

[torus693]

the physical substance Jing or semen has a range frequency that resonates

with micro and microcosmic Jing emanations. Chi is better recognized as Ions positive or negative and different from Jing. Volume and over abundance of semen by abstinence both mental and physical leaves the emanation of jing an universal resonance with nothing to do. That energy not being used by the mind which tends to draw it up the wrong channels

has a natural pathway that divine intelligence leads. Heat is ionization or the Nadis opening to increase bio electric energy to handle the power uptake of the chakras which are a magnetic or higher emanation source (greatly increases the need for ions)this process times with opening of the crown/higher mind

[andrew]

the physical substance Jing or semen has a range frequency that resonates

with micro and microcosmic Jing emanations. Chi is better recognized as Ions positive or negative and different from Jing. Volume and over abundance of semen by abstinence both mental and physical leaves the emanation of jing an universal resonance with nothing to do. That energy not being used by the mind which tends to draw it up the wrong channels has a natural pathway that divine intelligence leads. Heat is ionization or the Nadis opening to increase bio electric energy to handle the power uptake of the chakras which are a magnetic or higher emanation source (greatly increases the need for ions)this process times with opening of the crown/higher mind

 

 

That energy not being used by the mind which tends to draw it up the wrong channels

has a natural pathway that divine intelligence leads.

 

Hi Torus

 

I certainly am glad for the guidance of divine intelligence!

Am I understanding this quote correctly if I say that because I am not fantasizing and being very moderate with sex, that ions are being re routed somehow? My mind has been drawing energy incorrectly all this time? It certainly would explain a few things!

 

thanks

 

Andy

Edited March 31, 2011 by andrew

[de_paradise]

thankyou TWIV,

 

 

What is your opinion of The Secret of the Golden Flower? I have been reading JJ Semple's site and he links it with Kundalini, which sort of attracts me and scares me at the same time! Because I believe this started when I was able to accept that sex was not a need, and that much of how it is treated in our culture was exploiting me, and not natural at all, I have continued to not fantasize and be moderate in general.

 

As it is a very real thing happening, I don't want to stumble on, 'making it up as I go', I'm already risking going in circles as it is! Though in reality, it is probably too late for that.

 

I suppose the simplest question is; Has studying Qi brought you to deeper levels of Samadhi when meditating?

This is probably why I'm not just 'letting it go' and investigating at all, I'm hoping for a more effective use of my time and hoping to 'supercharge' my progress somehow.

 

At the moment I sit in the morning for an hour and the evening for an hour. It doesn't seem though I can get beyond being relaxed, which is good, but I don't see anymore time magically becoming available so I'm hoping this isn't a distraction but rather a path to enhancing the effectiveness of what time I do have.

 

cheers

 

andrew

 

I havent read Semple's books but when he posts on this forum it seems very coherent and genuine.

 

Studying qi if you mean by book learning about the facets of qi, has not brought me to deeper levels, only first hand experiential knowlege can do that. There are some good pointers here and there though.

Its great that you meditate for 2 hours a day. If you mean getting beyond relaxed into some kind of special Samadhi state, just forget about that. With experience you can dissect what "relaxed" means, and how your states change and evolve over time. Its not about the words, words can be misleading because they are agglomerative approxiamations of pretty hard to describe first hand experiences. Being extremely relaxed even more, while still maintaining some kind of awareness, is the goal; not trying to reach some state that Buddhist monks may reach after years of meditations.

 

Your heat in the chest experience might be some stirrings of the etheric body. Its very small in terms of importance or meaning, except that its some kind of proof of progress that might help you along.

[andrew]

I havent read Semple's books but when he posts on this forum it seems very coherent and genuine.

 

Studying qi if you mean by book learning about the facets of qi, has not brought me to deeper levels, only first hand experiential knowlege can do that. There are some good pointers here and there though.

Its great that you meditate for 2 hours a day. If you mean getting beyond relaxed into some kind of special Samadhi state, just forget about that. With experience you can dissect what "relaxed" means, and how your states change and evolve over time. Its not about the words, words can be misleading because they are agglomerative approxiamations of pretty hard to describe first hand experiences. Being extremely relaxed even more, while still maintaining some kind of awareness, is the goal; not trying to reach some state that Buddhist monks may reach after years of meditations.

 

Your heat in the chest experience might be some stirrings of the etheric body. Its very small in terms of importance or meaning, except that its some kind of proof of progress that might help you along.

 

 

thanks de_paradise, that is a perspective I hadn't considered.

 

I like the bit especially that I made bold above...very cool!

 

I have always felt a bit frustrated with not 'getting that far' in my meditation, but what you describe has definitely happened, in that the nature of relaxation has changed over time in subtle ways, but I haven't been that mindful of those changes as perhaps I could be. I'm certainly aware of energy now, though in a crude way. I have begun reading the pdf posted by MithShrike http://globalqiproject.com/the-eight-extraordinary-meridians.html which is very well written, thanks for that.

 

 

 

thankyou and peace

 

andrew

[devoid]

Hi andrew,

 

Welcome on board

 

Sounds like you're already on a good path and also lots of good thoughts / advice on this thread.

 

Often, when people start out meditating they don't really know why they're doing it - they just know that they want to know more about it and therefore need to experience it. Once having realized this, it begs for splitting meditation into two: 1) the method of meditation and 2) the goal (even if intermediate) of the meditation.

 

On meditation methods

Having read quite a few books on meditation, I have found The Secrets of Chinese Meditation: Self-Cultivation by Mind Control As Taught in the Ch'An, Mahayana and Taoist Schools in China by K'Uan Lu Yu / Charles Luk to be the most complete - although the title sounds a bit crazy, the book itself goes through the main principle method of meditation from the various schools of meditation (e.g. meditation on silence, breath, the senses, visualization, etc.).

 

On meditation goals / purpose

As for the (intermediate) goal with meditation there can be many - the following list provides some examples, but is in no way exhaustive:

• Attain inner calm / Feeling more centred
  
• Understanding the microcosmic universe (looking into oneself)
  
• Understanding the macrocosmic universe (looking outside oneself through meditation)
  
• Finding / Connecting with oneself (higher self if you like)
  
• Connecting with dead souls (subject to ones beliefs! )
  
• Accessing ones Akashic Records
  
• Etc.
  

-now, the above list serves only as examples - you need to make your own list and prioritize it in case it contains one than one element.

 

Regardless of what your goal is with meditation, once you are able to meditate and still your mind, you will need to connect you heart and mind - this opens the door to reaching your goals.

 

In case some of this speaks to you, but you are not sure how to go about it, please feel free to ask for some pointers. (Should you ask, but not get an answer, please feel free to pm me as I may not be following the thread too closely)

 

I wish you happy meditation

[torus693]

Hi Torus

 

I certainly am glad for the guidance of divine intelligence!

Am I understanding this quote correctly if I say that because I am not fantasizing and being very moderate with sex, that ions are being re routed somehow? My mind has been drawing energy incorrectly all this time? It certainly would explain a few things!

 

thanks

 

Andy

apologies, I should not think of technicalities to offer.

It's just very positive to hear your story. Everyone wants to foster

good potential and help. Flowers grow because they're meant to.

Best!

[andrew]

Thanks devoid,

 

Goals have been a bit vague regarding meditation for me overall, and I am at a crossroads. It probably is time I wrote such a list. Funny, it has been quite a while that I read anything about goals and then today i picked up that book "The Secret" when I was browsing during lunch break. It was all about the 'Law of Attraction' and it made me consider my goals with this. Then I read your post and I think I get the message!

 

 

thanks and peace

 

andrew

[andrew]

No worries Torus. I tend to shy away from science these days, but I did study a bit of Chemistry a few years back at night school, and I get into electronics a bit, It would be wonderful to see them converge at some point in my understanding and experience.

 

thanks and peace

 

andrew

Edited March 31, 2011 by andrew

[The Way Is Virtue]

I suppose the simplest question is; Has studying Qi brought you to deeper levels of Samadhi when meditating?

This is probably why I'm not just 'letting it go' and investigating at all, I'm hoping for a more effective use of my time and hoping to 'supercharge' my progress somehow.

At the moment I sit in the morning for an hour and the evening for an hour. It doesn't seem though I can get beyond being relaxed, which is good, but I don't see anymore time magically becoming available so I'm hoping this isn't a distraction but rather a path to enhancing the effectiveness of what time I do have.

cheers

andrew

 

I have read the translation of The Secret of The Golden Flower by Thomas Cleary, which seems to be a good translation, but I don't know too much more about it beyond that. I would say that JJ Semple's interpretation and views are his own personal interpretation and views but I don't know much about his stuff so I can't comment on specifics.

 

I can't speak of samadhi as I am not there yet but I can say that as I have experienced a more free flow of qi in my body I am more relaxed and more calm in daily life and in meditation. I am quite OK to allow my meditation to progress at its own natural pace and I personally think one is less likely to run into problems and less likely to get off on a sidetrack by holding to a simple and natural approach. Sometimes the simplest of approaches is the most effective in the long run if one can keep oneself from second guessing and over analyzing and otherwise interfering with the process.

 

An important foundation of meditation is sometimes referred to as calming the heart. This aspect is sometimes overlooked which may lead to people feeling discontent or impatience and thinking that they need to expand on the simple basics somehow to intentionally move the process along quicker by looking for external 'additions' to satisfy this feeling of discontent. When the heart is calm and the mind is calm and one is sitting or standing with the body aligned naturally straight and relaxed without any forcing, and the breathing is relaxed and natural, there is really nothing more needed IMO.

 

In Taoism there is a concept of wuji. This is the state of non-being from which all being is said to arise from. So wuji 'contains' the full potential of all things. All things arise naturally from wuji and no artifical interference or direction or additions are required and will only actually be a hinderance to the naturally unfolding processes. IMO. many taoist concepts and principles are actually fairly simple but can contain deep and rich meaning that can only be hinted at, but we tend to want to add all kinds of constructs to such simple concepts and principles to fit in with our way of thinking and our expectations. Anyway, that is just some thoughts from my perspective. You will no doubt encounter many perspectives.

Edited March 31, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[Dagon]

Dear Andy,

 

I am hesitant to say that you are awakened and are experiencing chi. I think your kundalini is trying to make his way up and is encountering a blockage. I also can feel heat in my chest when I focus there, although there are more steps that you may want to consider before focusing so much on your chest. The best guide one can have in this journey is that of intuition. To awaken your intuition the kundalini must rise to the pineal gland. Once this is done, you will be able to focus your energy (with practice) to any point.

 

There are two centers in your chest, one is the solar plexus the other is your heart chakras. The fire is rellevant to the solar plexus, which I have just begun to work with. 1st I did Intuition, then Heart, then Dan Tien (Navel).

 

Here is a picture that may help you to understand better.

 

 

The idea of awakening is to get kundalini to the Third Eye. If you have arrived to the 3rd point (solar plexus) without any guidance that is very good indeed. You should work on meditating and willing the ball of energy to rise.

 

Tongue to the top of your mouth, deep fast inhale though the nose, and a slow exhale out the nose.

 

You should also be aware of the safeties. I personally didn't use these, although people have said this promotes an awakening without side effects, you can find them here:

 

http://www.kundaliniawakeningsystems1.com/the-safeties.html

 

I do like what they are saying, besides I feel they left out something in the prayer reccomendations. When they say to choose a god, you can also use the Greater Self, Great Awareness, or Collective Conscious.

 

Good luck to you!

Edited March 31, 2011 by Dagon