Critical Thinking and Creativity

[Encephalon]

[Encephalon]

Hi Blasto. I witnessed a group of families who home schooled their kids. Great idea. It was work, though. However, the home environment seemed to beat the institutional grey concrete buildings and bored teachers that I endured as a child. Really seemed to promote creativity in the kids.

 

One thought. With all the tools that you are preparing to utilize - music, props, environments, etc - with your new kid...at this moment in time...what expectations do you already have about your child? I'm sure every parent expects him/her child to be born healthy, with no disabilities. But do you have expectations on how you hope your kid will develop?

 

I'll give you an example. If you are hopeful to share this massive amount of music with your child, what if he were to be born deaf? If you are hopeful to share this balancing device, what if your child were to be born with spina bifida or cerbral palsy and needed a wheelchair? Just curious, writing as one who has a disabled family member.

 

Best to your future newborn.

 

Beyond the natural desire to see my child born healthy, I'm not expecting anything in particular. Given the state of the nature vs. nurture debate, I want to create as healthy an environment as I can during the formative years with the tools mentioned.

[宁]

Hi Blasto,

 

I have a question, I have a simmilar mindset like yours (critical thinking and all that jazz), yet I don't know what to answer to those that question me regarding my beliefs in Qi, Shen and unseen 'realities' in general. I mean how can we find a reasonable / rational ballance between the two?

Maybe you've explained it in other threads, if you did, please point me at them

 

Regards

 

L1

Edited March 30, 2011 by Little1

[SageMD]

Critical or Analytical thinking, in my opinion, does not occur without creativity. You must be able to imagine all the variables to analyze them in a critical way. Without creativity, you would be thinking deep within the box of preconceived ideas, instead of outside the box of new ones. Thanks for the read. You really are a great writer!

[VCraigP]

Hi Blasto,

 

I have a question, I have a simmilar mindset like yours (critical thinking and all that jazz), yet I don't know what to answer to those that question me regarding my beliefs in Qi, Shen and unseen 'realities' in general. I mean how can we find a reasonable / rational ballance between the two?

Maybe you've explained it in other threads, if you did, please point me at them

 

Regards

 

L1

 

Why do you have "beliefs" about Qi, Shen and unseen realities?

 

I advise to discard labels about phenomenon. What have you actually experienced of Jing, Qi, Shen.

If you have an experience, do you have to believe in your experience? No.

 

Don't believe anything, explore and experience. By now I would think you would have many experiences of Qi at least to convince you of ... something.

 

If I want to or am compelled to believe in something, it sounds like religion to me. I suppose I could believe in the Jade Emperor if I chose to, but this would have no real relationship to my experiences of Qi, or even what I might label as experiences of Shen.

 

Tao practice is a grand experiment in my view. Your experimental explorations should yield information useful to yourself at least and you carry on refining the exploration from where that step has taken you.

 

To return to the OP subject I find that one can apply critical thinking here and it is important in order to avoid self delusion about the outcomes of ones experiments, explorations and experiences therefrom.

 

TTFN

 

Craig

[ralis]

When I recover from the tooth extraction I had 5 hours ago, I can add my thoughts in a more lucid fashion. I haven't filled the prescription for the good pain killers yet.

 

Reading Einstein when I was 13 or 14, helped me find a balance of critical thinking and creative imagination.

 

More later.

[Seth Ananda]

Thanks Blasto for this thread. All the mystical Traditions that really Inspire me required That the initiate develop his/her rational mind and critical thinking abilities.

I think my ability to use this function, has allowed me to have great conversations over the years with science heads and materialists. As soon as they realise that I am capable of objectivity [not that I much believe in objectivity] about my own experiences things lighten up and away the conversation goes.

 

Little1, Are Jing qi and shen beliefs? Maybe they are just how you experience the world?

The ability to feel chi is a usually learned skill and once learned there is no going back.

A person cannot think mathematically till they first learn how to count. And qi is in the same basket. Every person can learn to feel and move chi. Science only has a problem because because its dealing with an 'unseen' phenomena. All the scientific processes can be used Internally, with your own nervous system as the instrument of observation, replacing an external microscope or some such tool.

Where is the Belief? It is just a learned skill, and the using of it is a science.

 

I feel this way about Mysticism as well. People call it a pseudo science to denigrate it, but really all it is, is a series of practices that if you are open minded enough to try, will over time bring you to a deep state of Oneness with the sensory and Interior world. {as a start}

Sure there are many beliefs on top of the systems, about how to Interpret what this state is, But like learning to count, once you have done it there is no going back.

[Marblehead]

... creative imagination.

 

More later.

 

Have to be careful with that creative imagination though. After a while you can start imagining gods and miracles, and all kinds of impossibilities withing the realm of nature. These, BTW, are called illusions and delusions.

[Encephalon]

Hi Blasto,

 

I have a question, I have a simmilar mindset like yours (critical thinking and all that jazz), yet I don't know what to answer to those that question me regarding my beliefs in Qi, Shen and unseen 'realities' in general. I mean how can we find a reasonable / rational ballance between the two?

Maybe you've explained it in other threads, if you did, please point me at them

 

Regards

 

L1

 

A really great question, pal, probably one of the most important ones we can ask, because once we get critical numbers of energy practitioners testifying to the benefits, evewn more people will be asking the questions, and I believe a "Chi" renaissance is up ahead.

 

One of the reasons I'm looking forward to this year's CT conference up in Berkeley, CA is because Teja Bell, a 5th degree aikidoist, chi kung master,Vipassana instructor and amazing musician will be presenting his work on how to quantify and explain interior states of chi manifestation from a critical thinking perspective. Teja studies the same CT format that I've cited regularly here. We know that chi is bioelectromagnetism, but this presentation is going to break new ground. I'll be looking for materials to post online when they become available.

 

Besides that, B. Frantzis does a pretty good job of demystifying the practice of working with the nervous system. in his book on the energy gates.

 

The conference is still 4 months away.

[Encephalon]

Thanks Blasto for this thread. All the mystical Traditions that really Inspire me required That the initiate develop his/her rational mind and critical thinking abilities.

I think my ability to use this function, has allowed me to have great conversations over the years with science heads and materialists. As soon as they realise that I am capable of objectivity [not that I much believe in objectivity] about my own experiences things lighten up and away the conversation goes.

 

That's really the point of clear thinking and CT - the ability to communicate and articulate with precision. It gets even more important as the subject matter drifts into philosophy, mysticism, and states of interiority. Neverthelss, many in here think it can be skipped over on the way to enlightenment. Not gonna happen!

[doc benway]

Why do you have "beliefs" about Qi, Shen and unseen realities?

 

I advise to discard labels about phenomenon. What have you actually experienced of Jing, Qi, Shen.

If you have an experience, do you have to believe in your experience? No.

 

Don't believe anything, explore and experience. By now I would think you would have many experiences of Qi at least to convince you of ... something.

 

If I want to or am compelled to believe in something, it sounds like religion to me. I suppose I could believe in the Jade Emperor if I chose to, but this would have no real relationship to my experiences of Qi, or even what I might label as experiences of Shen.

 

Tao practice is a grand experiment in my view. Your experimental explorations should yield information useful to yourself at least and you carry on refining the exploration from where that step has taken you.

 

To return to the OP subject I find that one can apply critical thinking here and it is important in order to avoid self delusion about the outcomes of ones experiments, explorations and experiences therefrom.

 

TTFN

 

Craig

Nice post - belief is accepting something that someone else may or may not have experienced.

Better to be aware and know.

Edited March 30, 2011 by steve f

[aridus]

My take:

 

Thinking is a 'what'.

Critical is a modifier for a 'what'.

Method is a 'how'.

Creativity is a 'why'.

[Seth Ananda]

Have to be careful with that creative imagination though. After a while you can start imagining gods and miracles, and all kinds of impossibilities withing the realm of nature. These, BTW, are called illusions and delusions.

I Think you have to be equally careful how you codify such experiences.

 

Take someone in a theurgistic tradition who starts experiencing 'God's' and Interacting with them, yet is well balanced and shows no signs of 'Mental Illness' apart from some out of the box experiences?

 

Delusion is not a fit category for this kind of experience, with this kind of person.

 

These experiences, had by a psychologically healthy person, are 'Real' psychological events. Is not the mind part of Nature?

 

The debate will go on forever about what such an experience 'really' is but when 'miracles' accompany it, It gets even stickier...

 

Sure, a miracle may be just a random event interpreted to fit a situation, but what about when the presence of a 'God' seems to bring about more astonishing situations at once than seems logically possible?

 

Putting aside our Interpretations of these experiences, these experiences will still continue to be had by psychologicly healthy people.

 

I personally think it would be disingenuous to just shout 'Pathology' because you lack an adequate interpretation for it.

 

That said I also do not think that science should just accept a 'Mystical' interpretation of said experiences, as that would undermine the scientific process, as well as rob us of potentially startling future discovery's.

[aridus]

Mystical and miracle, these are also relative and subjective perceptions.

 

Calling something out of the ordinary depends on your view of ordinary.

 

People say what they see (or feel, or whatever) and then take further steps to try to say how, why, and when it happens. Other people disagree, some times for sufficient reasons, other times not.

 

There's knowing a thing. And then there's knowing a thing. The two often look the same but one is thinking you know for the wrong reasons.

 

I think these are why debates happen, and I see nothing automatically wrong with it. Yes, 'dangers' are there, and wherever.

 

Not everyone is ready to grasp everything all of the time, and some times what they think they have grasped is an illusion. It is possible to not understand one's own understanding, let alone someone else's and all to often we try to force it.

 

There are different times for different things in differing amounts.

 

One does not always need to say "It is a miracle!" Some times just saying "It is!" by itself is sufficient.

[Marblehead]

That said I also do not think that science should just accept a 'Mystical' interpretation of said experiences, as that would undermine the scientific process, as well as rob us of potentially startling future discovery's.

 

Hehehe. Yeah, I admit it. I was a bit over the edge with that post. I was influenced by my attitude at the time.

 

Yes, there are millions of people, billions of people, who have experiences that are real to them even though they have no idea what the cause was and therefore they attribute it to something mystical. Not a problem, IMO.

 

But when a person believes some god is talking to them and telling them that they have to go out and kill a bunch of people there is a problem.

 

Same goes with religious cults and the followers believe in something that is told them by their leader that is totally inconsistent with 'physical reality'.

 

People need be skeptical of soothsayers and those who profess to have the knowledge of the gods.

 

But yes, creative imagination is a great tool. Some people can use this tool much better than others. I am one of the lesser capable ones in this category. Therefore I must rely more on reason and logic. Some can fly, I have to walk.

 

I experienced deja vu once when I was in my early twenties. I had no other way of defining the experience.

 

And I do understand that there are many people who can do things that I cannot. Just because I cannot do something doesn't mean that no one else can either.

 

But when someone states that a stone statue bleeds human blood I either question the validity of the atatement or I totally ignore the statement and pass it off as a delusion.

 

And that goes right back to critical thinking. There is no requirement that any of us believe anything anyone else says. But if we believe nothing we are in a very sad condition, I think. Look for logic and reason. Lacking that consider the probabilities of whatever.

 

Imaginary friends are nice for most people. Your friend says exactly what you are expecting them to say. Others will have a problem with their imaginary friend because of some root psychological or physical mental problem.

 

And yes, creativity is the fuel for advancing the condition of not only the human species but for all life on Earth. It can also be used for the destruction of the same.

[Marblehead]

Mystical and miracle, these are also relative and subjective perceptions.

 

Agree. Everything we perceive is subjective. A tree is a tree but if three different people are viewing that same tree each will see different aspects of the tree and for each, those aspects that they see are what that tree is for them. Of course, the tree is still the very same tree regardless of the various perceptions of the viewers.

 

And therefore I agree with you that what a person experiences is their own personal experience based on so many different factors that more often than not these factors cannot even begin to be understood. But the experience was understood by the experiencer. One might call it a miracle while an onlooker would be able to logically explain what happened. But that doesn't matter. It was still a miracle for the experiencer.

[humbleone]

Great thread, and really good informative posts. Thanks.

 

This is a subject I have looked into quite a bit. imo Analytical thinking and creativity are mutually exclusive. The two have to be developed and nurtured independently. It is like mixing fire and water. analytical thinkiing water will extinguish the creative fire. One has nothing to do with the other.

[aridus]

Agree. Everything we perceive is subjective. A tree is a tree but if three different people are viewing that same tree each will see different aspects of the tree and for each, those aspects that they see are what that tree is for them. Of course, the tree is still the very same tree regardless of the various perceptions of the viewers.

 

And therefore I agree with you that what a person experiences is their own personal experience based on so many different factors that more often than not these factors cannot even begin to be understood. But the experience was understood by the experiencer. One might call it a miracle while an onlooker would be able to logically explain what happened. But that doesn't matter. It was still a miracle for the experiencer.

Yes.

I find, just in my experience, people find subjective to mean "wrong" or "invalid" or "doesn't exist". I don't like to use it this way. Some times I forget that other people do like to use it that way.

 

Something subjective is still something. Some times we can talk about things which we don't have. But there is still the talking about the thing, otherwise we are not talking about a non thing.

[Marblehead]

Yes.

I find, just in my experience, people find subjective to mean "wrong" or "invalid" or "doesn't exist". I don't like to use it this way. Some times I forget that other people do like to use it that way.

 

Something subjective is still something. Some times we can talk about things which we don't have. But there is still the talking about the thing, otherwise we are not talking about a non thing.

 

Yep. And thank you for offering me the opportunity to speak more. Hehehe.

 

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. That is, Tao, the noun, is non-descript. We can talk about what it means to us (subjective) but we cannot talk of its objectiveness.

 

The Way can be viewed more objectively. That is, the way the universe (and all things) functions.

 

Tao gives birth to the ten thousand things, the Way nurtures them.

 

No, subjectivity is not a negative, IMO. It is reality in the mind of the observer. And for the observer that is all that generally matters.

[Marblehead]

Great thread, and really good informative posts. Thanks.

 

This is a subject I have looked into quite a bit. imo Analytical thinking and creativity are mutually exclusive. The two have to be developed and nurtured independently. It is like mixing fire and water. analytical thinkiing water will extinguish the creative fire. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

Interesting perspective. Don't know if I agree or not. Might get back to it if I have some thoughts.

[aridus]

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. That is, Tao, the noun, is non-descript. We can talk about what it means to us (subjective) but we cannot talk of its objectiveness.

 

The Way can be viewed more objectively. That is, the way the universe (and all things) functions.

 

Tao gives birth to the ten thousand things, the Way nurtures them.

 

Right, right.

If I may add, if we don't mind...

 

Communication with words is such a strange thing some times. It would seem, that some times, a thing said with honest intentions, even though on the surface 'wrong', can have the right logic behind it.

 

It would seem, that some times, we forget to specify, or to take into account other understanding. We get hung up, and go in circles like a pinwheel in the wind, just because the sticking point, the 'pin', keeps us there. It could be one misunderstood word, something unintentionally misspoken, or a forgotten disclaimer, or any number of things.

[Encephalon]

Right, right.

If I may add, if we don't mind...

 

Communication with words is such a strange thing some times. It would seem, that some times, a thing said with honest intentions, even though on the surface 'wrong', can have the right logic behind it.

 

It would seem, that some times, we forget to specify, or to take into account other understanding. We get hung up, and go in circles like a pinwheel in the wind, just because the sticking point, the 'pin', keeps us there. It could be one misunderstood word, something unintentionally misspoken, or a forgotten disclaimer, or any number of things.

 

This is precisely why I have introduced the subject of CT to this forum from time to time, when I witness the confusion and ill-will that can result from poor writing, and the frustration from knowing that just a few tweaks here and there in the way we compose our messages can avoid so much negativity. But it's usually rejected. Maybe it'll be different now.

[aridus]

This is precisely why I have introduced the subject of CT to this forum from time to time, when I witness the confusion and ill-will that can result from poor writing, and the frustration from knowing that just a few tweaks here and there in the way we compose our messages can avoid so much negativity. But it's usually rejected. Maybe it'll be different now.

 

I agree. Some times I have a fear that my cryptic writing (at least it is to some people apparently) will be rejected and cause problems because it does elsewhere.

I do try to refine where I can, but some times I'm in a contemplative moment and things come out.

 

Also I've seen more tolerance and acceptance here than usually seems to go on in life.

 

Maybe if we refine a little more, have a little more tolerance, and everyone has a little more patience, everything will meet nicely in the middle.

[Encephalon]

I agree. Some times I have a fear that my cryptic writing (at least it is to some people apparently) will be rejected and cause problems because it does elsewhere.

I do try to refine where I can, but some times I'm in a contemplative moment and things come out.

 

 

It depends. Cryptic writing is an invitation for misinterpretation, but we can always follow through with clarification later. In any event, using this forum as a means of practicing written communication, especially if you're addicted(!) can serve a valuable purpose.

[Encephalon]

Great thread, and really good informative posts. Thanks.

 

This is a subject I have looked into quite a bit. imo Analytical thinking and creativity are mutually exclusive. The two have to be developed and nurtured independently. It is like mixing fire and water. analytical thinkiing water will extinguish the creative fire. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

This conclusion isn't consistent with the material I've examined, but I'm a long way from making such definitive statements. I absolutely agree that they are two different mental processes that have to be cultivated separately, and that CT skills require a certain amount of isolation to hone, whereas creativity tends to resist straightjacketing.

 

I like the writing metaphor. You write one day without letting your impulse for editing get in the way. The following day you whip out your editing mind and go to work.

 

Another way CT and creativity are linked is the musical metaphor. If you're improvising in a jazz clinic, and the rhythm section suddenly gets very conservative with its beat and chord progressions, the narrower parameters suddenly imposed upon you can unleash creative solutions (music).

 

I'll have to revisit the two processes as separate. What I do know is that when the Muse comes knocking, you gotta let her in!