Get Rid Of Those Stories

[Otis]

Telling people to give up everything they know is like telling someone that everything they know is wrong and honestly how can one assume that. Rational skepticism is understandable, but denying everything as false isn't. Also the quote that you posted here is very much in line with Zen and Buddhist thinking.

I, for one, won't be telling other people what they should do.

 

However, when I look at "what I know", it seems to be most certain that it is all false. Every bit of it.

 

Now some details may be more accurate to reality, and some metaphors may work 99.99999% of time, but there is no way for me to be sure which ones those are.

 

That's part of the reason why I'm such a big fan of science, because it seems like one of the few generators of memes that actually have safeguards, to help soften the influence of bias. But the smaller the sample size, the less likely any meme is, to be accurate. How likely is it that the memes in my tiny little head are "right", and how would I ever know?

 

When I really pursue the question "what is it possible for me to know?", I realize that there is no solid ground to stand on. Like in Stigweard's recent epistemology thread, the "island of the known" is really the "island of acceptable delusion".

 

And where is the line of acceptable? Again, I cannot know. Provincial thinking can be a very dangerous thing; am I to assume that my delusions are acceptable, even though I know I must suffer from some provincialism?

 

I cannot see any way of stepping beyond myself, to see the world from any point of view, other than my own. Even siddhis are not "beyond a viewpoint", they are merely esoteric or heightened senses.

 

I don't know how to drop all my stories. What I can do now, though, is: doubt my stories in a strategic way. If the story makes me special, either as victim or hero, it is suspect. If the story brushes away another's viewpoint, or dismisses an unpleasant potential, then it is suspect. If the story puts someone else down, or exalts my opinions, or is accompanied by strong emotions or a tense body, it is suspect. If I find myself cheating in any way, in the process of saying "yes" or "no" to a belief, then it is suspect.

 

Of course, even when a metaphor fits beautifully and elegantly, even when it seems to match all the data, even when there is an inner gong, whenever I think of it, it still is suspect! I may still be seeing a watering hole, when all that is there is just heat waves. All matter, we are told, is just an illusion of our senses responding to the flow of electrons, neutrons, and protons (which themselves are illusions, born from other causes). What else seems so certain, so real, so absolute, and yet, is nothing but an illusion? I cannot know.

 

The more I think that I know, the more that I bind myself to my delusions. I don't know how to live without delusions, but I can do my best not to take any of them too seriously.

[Birch]

"all false"

 

is IMO about as useful as "all true". Can I suggest "partially true" rather than the (surprisingly) "relative true" of the buddhists? My take is unless you are actively deceiving yourself or someone else (and, after all, wouldn't that take their own participation as well?) then whatever your truth is is simply part of it. Assuming yours is "all" or "nothing" is IMO both more and less than it is.

[Ulises]

[Ulises]

We don't have idea of what we have lost...this is an eye-opener, heart-expanding account about one of the last First People: they did'nt have religion, scriptures, spiritual burocrats...not even shamans....but they were in complete alignment with the Mystery, they were friendly, joyful, gentle...we used to be this way, before the violence of belief systems/patriarchy...

 

http://www.unk.edu/firstyear.aspx?id=13833

Edited April 22, 2011 by Ulises

[Ulises]

more people are spontaneously awakening to the possibility that what we need now is a "paradigm of mutual care that can carry us across the threshold between worlds." ( a story of interbeingness that can evolve without becoming "stone tablets" crushing the mystery of our humanity into a prefab mold...again, I remember the message Mirra Alfassa - Sri Aurobindo's yogic partner - got in one of her latest mystical experiences ofthe descent of the Supramental Consciousness: "it's very important not make of this process another religion")

 

Why the Age of the Guru is Over

Charles Eisenstein

 

Poised as we are at the transition between worlds, and traveling, many of us, back and forth between them, we need a way to enter the new one, learn to live in it, and be able to abide there. We need, in other words, a midwife. The birth metaphor is perhaps imperfect, since we are undergoing not a single, final expulsion, but a series of brief experiences of a more radiant world in which we have been unable to stay. How can we stay? How can we fully establish ourselves in a radically different way of thinking, relating, and being? Make no mistake: this revolution goes far beyond the acceptance of an idea. To know and embody as an experiential, lived, enacted reality the truth of interbeingness, to live in the spirit of the gift as appropriate to each relationship, to absolutely trust one's divinity and that of others, to know in every fiber of one's being, "I art Thou," and to navigate this knowledge with appropriate boundaries, constitutes a fundamental revolution in human beingness (...)

 

Humanity collectively, and many of us individually, are at a threshold between worlds. The world we are entering is both a new world for us, and a long-forgotten realm. As we step into it, we can be each other's welcoming committee. We can do for each other what a guru does for a disciple: hold each other in the knowing of who we really are, and teach each other how to live there. Each of us, as we experience our own piece of the age of reunion, becomes a guide to a small part of that vast new territory.

http://www.realitysandwich.com/across_threshold_0

Edited April 22, 2011 by Ulises

[Ulises]

I don't endorse this author, simply I've found this piece is superb...

 

The Emerging Cosmos

 

by Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet ©

 

"At present mankind is undergoing an evolutionary crisis

in which is concealed a choice of its destiny."

Sri Aurobindo

 

The malaise of our civilisation is not an inchoate or unpredictable development. Rather, it is the logical, foreseeable result of thousands of years of partial and ineffective spiritual visions and incomplete philosophical systems. These have always been the driving force behind the evolution of higher mental forms. Therefore, if our civilisation stands at a critical juncture at present, it is not in the secular and scientific domain that we must search for the cause of the decay. We must discover what has been lacking in the dimension of existence that moulds the more external and material patterns which condition life on this planet.

 

Once the root of the problem is located in its true area of causation, necessarily a change must be introduced in that sphere before the more external levels can be influenced. Thus if we can locate the root cause of the decay in that more essential domain, our task of bringing about a change in the individual and in society and of establishing a new world order on Earth is greatly facilitated.

 

Indeed, the crux of the problem lies here: for thousands of years sages, saints, yogis, philosophers, and men and women of wisdom have described the purpose of birth on this planet as simply a passage to a reality beyond not only our planetary home but entirely out of the cosmic dimension. The course our civilisation has taken can therefore be directly connected to this factor. The influence a vision of this nature has wielded has been devastating--for it has carried the planet and its multiple societies to the brink of total annihilation.

We may call this development a conspiracy of the spiritual elite which gradually influenced the whole tenure of life on Earth, spreading its tentacles of influence through religions and philosophical systems during the past several thousands of years, but now through scientific, political and socioeconomic systems. The latter can invariably trace their inspiration to some spiritual or philosophical source. For even our most material ideologies that apparently deny the higher realities of existence and focus entirely on the physical dimension, have done so by virtue of a reaction to those more metaphysical postulations.

 

Many profound thinkers throughout the world have perceived that it is only a spiritual renaissance that can save our civilisation. Only if we attain a different consciousness, rooted in some higher seeing, can there be any real change, they feel. This may well be true, but what is not appreciated is that the present chaos is a direct outcome of our past mystic and spiritual perceptions. There are two aspects to this development. One is the course spirituality took in the West, which founded itself on a certain form of negation of life; and the other is the Eastern orientation, in its own way equally a denial of life.

 

In the West, out of denial and suffering there developed a certain strength. Believers had been encouraged to accept suffering as a way to God and the means to attain a heaven beyond this life. Indeed, life on Earth came to be considered a prison and the fall of the soul. Salvation, through negation of life, could only come in a beyond, namely in some transcendent Heaven. The final outcome of this negation has been the materialistic philosophies and political ideologies which the West has given to the world. Presently there is a clear dichotomy on the planet, whereby western civilisation has aligned itself clearly and decisively with what has come to be called in spiritual circles the 'materialistic consciousness'.

 

However, in the East we find a similar denial of life, also as an outcome of its spirituality. Interestingly, this negation took hold of the consciousness of eastern wisemen at about the same time that a similar denial caught hold of their western counterparts. About the end of the first millennium Indian spirituality veered fully toward a quest for otherworldliness: the philosophies of the day made the conclusive proclamation that all creation in matter was an 'illusion', a deceptive veil that seekers of Truth must tear through in order to reach the immutable, immobile, transcosmic and static Brahman; or a Self devoid of all relations in this material web of time and space.

 

Thus at approximately the same period in history, the stamp of otherworldliness and denial of life and the planet's own truth of being and purpose as a home of an evolving species, became firm pillars of our civilisation. This conditioned everything. This denial coloured all our perceptions and gradually moulded every pattern we evolved for the regulation of our individual and collective life. And what we are faced with today is simply the ultimate display of that denial and negation of life. The human being has carried the formula of this negation to its fullest extremes: What was seen as the highest spiritual poise has been carried over to the material realm, or the stage upon which all the ideals and more ethereal concepts of humankind are played out; with the predictable result that now science has furnished the race with the ultimate powers for its own destruction. If the only purpose of life on this planet is to escape it somehow, never more to return, then we are wholly justified in seeking means to destroy this springboard base as the ultimate and conclusive 'solution'.

 

It is important to see clearly that the root of this problem is directly connected to the religious dogmas and spiritual visions that have conditioned our living since time immemorial. Spirituality is not a static expression. It has evolved pari passu with the material evolution. In fact, there is only ONE evolution, one principle evolving through the myriad forms that constitute our world. This 'consciousness' has two facets, material and spiritual. But both respond to the same underlying energy and drive.

 

Consequently, to posit the ultimate solution in either the spirituality we know today or in materialism, with its own brand of denial of life, is inadequate. Indeed, such attempts have consistently failed. Spirituality can only offer old solutions which were themselves largely the causes of the decay. Likewise, materialistic answers are prisoners of the same insufficiencies; and continuing as we are, they will drive us to a total destruction in order to play out the drama of denial of life that spirituality has constantly espoused in one form or another, under one disguise or another.

To accurately assess the situation it is required that we examine the problem deeply, in an effort to reach the core of the matter and discover the fount from which both science and spirituality receive their driving force. Therefore, it is necessary to perceive what stands behind the play of forces; and to do so we must come to a more enlightened understanding of the evolutionary process itself. This will provide us with a more holistic assessment of the condition of the highest instrument nature makes use of for the purpose of the evolution of the species, in order to effect this upward march to ever better forms of consciousness and life: the mental human being.

 

For this is the self-evident purpose of evolution. It is to bring forth evermore perfect forms in order to create more complex and sophisticated networks or patterns of structured energy that can express more harmonious states of consciousness-being. Our present stage is merely one step along the evolutionary way, albeit a decisive one. We have reached a major evolutionary turning point. There is a choice: Before us lies a totally new way of life and by consequence a new world order. For this, a finer, more refined instrument has to manifest. And this is the major focus of the present crisis. We are in the process of evolving a human instrument capable of sustaining the greater cosmic forces at play through life and matter on this planet, without experiencing destructive collapse of energies or succumbing to the old ways of escape through outdated solutions and methods the world has known until now.

 

The human instrument as it is presently constituted pivots a void. At its centre lies a 'black hole' into which energies collapse, cave in, dissolve; resulting ultimately in decay and death. And out of this condition of the instrument ,through which the human consciousness perceives the reality beyond, came the projection of a world in chaos and collapse and hence the perception that salvation, of whatever order and under whatever guise, lay beyond this material universe and, above all, away from this woeful planet Earth. The demon of the drama was seen to be the senses, which wisemen understood to be the limiting factor which distorts a reality that somehow could be disconnected from the body and experienced separately, free from our physical organs of perception and hence disengaged from the world of material creation, out of which and within which these senses have evolved. Thus, ways were devised to liberate the seeker from the physical, sensual instrument, limited by its own apparently untransformable insufficiencies.

 

To be more specific, such projections and perceptions of our condition are the logical outcomes of a species ill-poised, but for reasons quite different than those given in current religious, mystic and spiritual explanations. The human being has an off-centre pivot of his bodily instrument, which results in a distorted perception of our world; but which is, paradoxically, caused by the perception itself. Consequently, to alter that perception it is required that concurrently we shift this axis of being--in the species--and allow evolution to carry us to a new and higher destiny.

 

The human instrument, an intrinsic part of the solar system and the universal harmony, is structured energy just as any other microcosmic or macrocosmic body. The human being has its 'axis' also, around which the individual frame is organised and because of which a separate entity can come into existence and sustain itself without dispersion, adding to this magnificent display of multiplicity within unity, which is the key feature of our material world. But because we are as yet merely a transitional species, albeit evolving to a higher form, the present 'axis' and its location within the body, which has come into being in accordance with certain evolutionary laws, encourages atavism as the single most important driving force of the species.

 

Over the ages, wisemen, philosophers, seers, mystics, have sought through various means to alter this condition. In place of the inertia of atavism they have sought to install a higher purpose. But the inadequate condition of the instrument through which perception is made, provided only a partial understanding of the problem; and hence the techniques which were devised in order to help the human being to find release from this limiting function were in themselves inconclusive and did nothing to alter in any way conditions on the planet. Matters progressively worsened, until finally, seeing the gravity of the situation, all those who in some way have been concerned with this problem, came to a dramatic impasse. Finding that it was apparently impossible to change this evolutionary determinism, all spiritual and religious paths proffered methods of escape from the 'coils of this corruptible flesh' as the only way to salvation, and to seek dissolution of the consciousness in a transcendent Beyond or a nirvanic Void. Not only has this done nothing to change conditions on Earth, it has complicated the task of discovering the solution. And finally we find ourselves, as a species, facing possible annihilation.

 

Let us demonstrate the subtle ways in which this notion of irredeemability has penetrated the thinking of even those philosophers whom one would expect to perceive the position differently, primarily because they are indefatigably engaged in the task of instructing men and women the world over on the ways to a better life. But a better life where? If it is here, on this planet, then the flaws that emerge in these teachings must be pointed out, which will serve to expose the fact that on the basis of just such erroneous visions the human condition is what it is and cannot hope to change. Rather, the condition becomes compounded.

 

To illustrate, we may quote a statement of one of the most eminent thinkers of our times, the late J. Krishnamurti:

 

'Truth cannot be exact. What can be measured is not truth.' (Krishnamurti's Notebook, Harper & Row, 1976, p.24.)

 

This declaration is sure to appeal to all those who have become disenchanted with life in the body and in the material universe of which measure is the salient feature, and who have subsequently posited the goal of their quests in some extra-cosmic heaven or transcendent Beyond. For, what is Krishnamurti really stating?

 

It is simply this: the higher reality is not of this world, measurable in time and space, and any such attempt to find truth within this material (measurable) universe is futile. Hence this statement is a denial of life and fosters a totally divisive consciousness (certainly not the aim of his teaching efforts on the surface), whereby truth is OUTSIDE of time and space and hence beyond our world. God, the supreme Reality, or Truth is not, according to Krishnamurti, found in what is measurable.

 

It is this sort of postulation that has carried us to the point of such a tremendous evolutionary crisis. And lamentably, it is men and women concerned preeminently with the spiritual well-being of humankind who have contributed most to this situation, either by encouraging the faithful to live rightly and morally--but only for the purpose of reaching 'heaven' after death; or else by subtly and more often unknowingly, as in the case of Krishnamurti, consolidating the perception of an untransformable, irredeemable material creation, into which the soul and spirit of the human being has fallen and out of which some form of escape must be found in order to know truth in its transcendent, pristine and uncontaminated purity.

 

Krishnamurti, provides us with another example of the way in which this vision has permeated the intelligentsia, in quarters that one could not have anticipated. Of late two books have appeared with transcripts of his conversations with the physicist David Bohm. It is interesting to observe that Krishnamurti succeeds in carrying Bohm, a physicist and hence a person supremely trained in the art of Measure, into his vision of a featureless void, in which time is an illusion and there is no becoming. A portion of their conversation will suffice to illustrate the nature of the problem:

 

JK: I am asking you as a physicist, is this universe based on time?

 

DB: I would say no, but you see, the general way...

 

JK: That is all I want. You say no! And can the brain, which has evolved in time ... ?

 

DB: Well, has it evolved in time? Rather, it has become entangled in time. Because the brain is part of the universe, which we say is not based on time.

 

JK: I agree.

 

DB: Thought has entangled the brain in time.

 

JK: All right. Can that entanglement be unraveled, freed, so that the universe is the mind? You follow? If the universe is not of time, can the mind, which has been entangled in time, unravel itself and so be the universe?

 

And further on, Krishnamurti makes this revealing statement:

 

'...to be free of becoming? That is the root of it. To end becoming...Of course, there is only complete security in nothingness!' (The Ending of Time, Harper & Row, 1985.)

 

This clearly, is the perception that must change if at all a new species and a new world order can safely take their place upon the planet for which they are destined. This calls for a complete readjustment in the 'lens of our seeing', precisely our 'instrument of measure', whereby the Earth comes into focus not as some eternal, irredeemable Hell that a chastising Creator has condemned us to, but rather the planet that serves a noble purpose in the cosmic order. This purpose is to evolve continuously higher and better forms of life. At present the human being is in transition toward a new condition. The breakdown we witness about us, inclusive of the marvels of technology that the human mind has brought into being, is an indication of that new order that is arising. The axis of the human instrument is being encouraged to shift to a higher pivot, whereby the present atavism is no longer a rigid cross to which we are nailed as a race. Rather, the new species is liberated from this compelling drive and begins then a more conscious participation in this grand act of Becoming through which a new instrument is being wrought. But for this to occur, the orientation of our quest and its consequent goal, based on a truly new perception of the higher reality of existence, must shift. The direction must cease to be otherworldly, no matter how camouflaged this may be, as noted by the example furnished above. The answer lies here, on Earth, in the body--but transformed by the power of a new seeing.

 

How is this achieved? The new axis is not metaphysical. It is a pivot that comes into being in accordance with precise evolutionary laws involving time. By working with time in a particular manner, it is possible to restructure the consciousness, and ultimately the physical being, around a higher pivot. This cannot be accomplished while religions and the old spirituality block the process by emphasis on a metaphysical experience that disengages the human being from any spiritually and materially meaningful contact with the physical world, and consequently absolves him from any responsibility therein. According to these now outdated ways, the purpose of life was to somehow find escape from it, to either expiate one's sins and reach heaven, or to work out a karma and thereby become freed from taking birth again on this woeful planet. In the midst of such a conditioning, it was not possible to alter the evolutionary pattern, insofar as the means to do so, in particular a conscious work with time, were denied their truth and the part they played to attain a higher reality.

 

The new world is a world in which both the being and the becoming are harmonised in the vision. Therefore Sri Aurobindo describes the choice of destiny that faces mankind at this crisis point as an accepting and embracing precisely of the becoming, as the means to attain the ultimate apotheosis, an evolutionary leap to a totally new status:

 

The significance of our existence here determines our destiny: that destiny is something that already exists in us as a necessity and a potentiality, the necessity of our being's secret and emergent reality, a truth of its potentialities that is being worked out; both, though not yet realised, are even now implied in what has been already manifested.If there is a Being that is becoming, a Reality of existence that is unrolling itself in Time, what that being, that reality secretly is is what we have to become, and so to become is our life's significance. (The Life Divine, Chapter 28.)

 

While the old degenerates into chaos and begins its collapse, there is simultaneously a work in progress to evolve a new species. The process entails, however, a laying of correct foundations. That is, a new 'blueprint' is being evolved, the lines of which are drawn by time, the power of evolution for the gestation of any new form.

 

The new 'blueprint' being established at present is a pattern of harmony. Indeed, its inspirer is the closest, most complete pattern of harmony that we can observe and of which we are an intrinsic part. It is the solar system--seen with a new eye and an entirely new and different instrument of perception and measurement. This blueprint of a new consciousness-being will provide the basis for a new world order. The outcome is a planetary society, inspired in its governance by the very harmonics of our System and in particular founded upon a vision that sees and accepts the Earth as the place where upon this progression is destined to occur.

 

But foremost in this evolutionary leap is the question of the purpose of evolution; and by consequence the purpose of our planetary home within the scheme of the cosmic order. It is clear that while we continue to turn to the old spirituality for solutions to our present state of collapse, we are only compounding that collapse, insofar as all spirituality considers life in this cosmos to be a fall and posits salvation in some form of a Beyond, unevolving and static. The dramatic shift that is required is then the complete refocusing of the lens we are provided with for evolution on Earth, and the resultant consciousness that introduces an entirely new direction in our perceiving. We cease to deny life and material creation as channels for expression of the highest truth principle. Rather, we see these as instruments on Earth of what Sri Aurobindo has called, the 'life divine'.

 

There is a tested method to establish this new blueprint. It utilises time as the creative power for this revolutionary activity. By a specific knowledge of the mechanics of our solar system and the relation of the planetary harmony to time, as experienced on Earth and in the human body, a shift is brought about in the consciousness-being of the individual practitioner, whereby a new pivot is established in the body, no longer prisoner of atavistic drives but responsive to a higher purpose. On that basis a truly new harmony establishes itself within the individual and his society. There is no longer a collapse of energies but rather a sort of mini-solar system manifests as a nuclear compound from where new influences emerge. Gradually these accumulate and extend and eventually draw into the orbit of the new System an increasingly wider sphere; until finally the entire planet becomes the home of this higher planetary society.

 

What evolves is therefore neither a new spirituality nor a new science or material ideology. It is something beyond all these known methods but that miraculously harmonises and integrates all the expressions of mind, life, and matter in a splendid act of synthesis. The truth of our world is a magnificent manifoldness, expressing an exquisite diversity. But-this multiple diversity is upheld and sustained by a power of integration and arises in a field of oneness, --just as our solar system is an expression of a superb manifold harmony within an integrating oneness.

 

This is an evolutionary process which respects the being as well as the becoming. Hence it does not seek to obliterate the cosmic harmony which is rooted in time and is the instrument for the Becoming. Rather, it evolves by the aid of those laws. Thus we can applaud Ilya Prigogine when he declares, 'I want to feel the evolution of things. I don't believe in transcending, but in being embedded in a reality that is temporal.' (OMNI, May, 1983.)

 

The critical crossroad we have reached is mirrored in the expansion of this very solar system to the observing eye of humankind. During the past several hundred years we have seen the System increase by three planets. While over this same period, pari passu with this expansion, the consciousness of the species and the condition of our civilisation have also undergone singular alterations. An acceleration in the evolution of consciousness never before witnessed has set in during this period, particularly heightened in our century. But what is required now, that 'choice of destiny', as Sri Aurobindo has called it, is a conscious collaboration with this process. Prior to this critical juncture the human being was carried along on the crests of the evolutionary wave in an unconscious fashion. But now, with the birth of a new consciousness and species, poised differently, centred on the higher axis of being, the possibility arises that we may collaborate consciously, guided by the harmonics of the very cosmos we inhabit and stand in awe of: an applied cosmology, not another speculative theory.

 

In the midst of the chaos we see about us a sublime cosmos emerges. Its life does not depend upon the old in the midst of which it stands. It emerges as the old crumbles, uncontaminated by the morose suggestions of purposelessness that vitiate the atmosphere of this dying world. It emerges because the conditions for it are determined by higher evolutionary laws, and is hence a thing inevitable in the history of our planet's time; even as the present mental being was an unavoidable and necessary circumstance, a step along the way but nothing more, and nobly played its role in the evolution of consciousness. The foundations of this new and higher species are solidly laid in the stratum that is indestructible. But not disengaged from material creation. Rather, these new foundations are rooted in matter and they form the basis for a new species and society.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Ulises

[Otis]

Another great reason to put down stories: the energy of certainty moves in the opposite vector from that of growth.

 

When I am certain, I make my known important. The more important my known is, the less willing I will be, to go into the unknown. Growth, of course, takes place in the unknown, because it's about moving into new territory.

 

Belief stories are about making possibility smaller, not larger. For example, if I say that "my God is the true God", then inherent in that belief, I exclude all other possibility.

 

If I tell stories about myself, then I exclude part of the texture and possibility that is me. If I create stories about who someone else is, then I exclude the parts of them which do not fit in my story. When I tell myself a story about an event that just happened, then I reshape my memory of that event into the form of my story.

 

If I am certain, then having my stories torn apart is painful. How can I face new potential truths, if I have put my own emotional weight behind calling my own truths "Right"?

 

Being certain just keeps me in the territory I already think I understand. It makes change frightening, and urges me to rationalize new evidence to fit old beliefs. It blinds me to new possibility, and sets me against those who espouse different points of view.

[Otis]

"all false"

 

is IMO about as useful as "all true". Can I suggest "partially true" rather than the (surprisingly) "relative true" of the buddhists? My take is unless you are actively deceiving yourself or someone else (and, after all, wouldn't that take their own participation as well?) then whatever your truth is is simply part of it. Assuming yours is "all" or "nothing" is IMO both more and less than it is.

I agree that living as if "my beliefs are all false" seems impossible; I certainly don't know how to do it. Because I do not know how to live without beliefs, my mantra is: believe as little as possible, and make sure that what I do believe makes as much sense as possible.

 

Of course, that "as much sense as possible" is still dependent upon my viewpoint, which is why it is also still useful to remember that my beliefs really are "all false". I can never know what is "true" so why try to parse out how much truth is in them? I never have any real ground to stand on.

 

It is not about rejecting my beliefs, thus far. It is about letting them be "my best theory yet" and no more.

[Ulises]

Each religion has helped mankind. Paganism increased in man the light of beauty, the largeness and height of his life, his aim at a many-sided perfection; Christianity gave him some vision of divine love and charity; Buddhism has shown him a noble way to be wiser, gentler, purer, Judaism and Islam how to be religiously faithful in action and zealously devoted to God; Hinduism has opened to him the largest and profoundest spiritual possibilities. A great thing would be done if all these God-visions could embrace and cast themselves into each other; but intellectual dogma and cult egoism stand in the way.

(Essays in Philosophy and Yoga, p.211)

 

All fanaticism is false, because it is a contradiction of the very nature of God and of Truth. Truth cannot be shut up in a single book, Bible or Veda or Koran, or in a single religion. The Divine Being is eternal and universal and infinite and cannot be the sole property of the Mussulmans or of the Semitic religions only, – those that happened to be in a line from the Bible and to have Jewish or Arabian prophets for their founders. Hindus and Confucians and Taoists and all others have as much right to enter into relation with God and find the Truth in their own way. All religions have some truth in them, but none has the whole truth; all are created in time and finally decline and perish. Mahomed himself never pretended that the Koran was the last message of God and there would be no other. God and Truth outlast these religions and manifest themselves anew in whatever way or form the Divine Wisdom chooses.

 

(On Himself, p.483.)

 

Spirituality is much wider than any particular religion, and in the larger ideas of it that are now coming on us even the greatest religion becomes no more than a broad sect or branch of the one universal religion, by which we shall understand in the future man's seeking for the eternal, the divine, the greater self, the source of unity and his attempt to arrive at some equation, some increasing approximation of the values of human life with the eternal and the divine values.

 

(The Renaissance in India , p.33.)

 

Sri Aurobindo

Edited April 22, 2011 by Ulises

[Ulises]

"...we are born with our aliveness, and we need to help that aliveness come together into a unity. And essentially we've kind of forgotten all of that in our culture. We put everything into words and ideas and concepts, and essentially ignore the wholeness of the individual. And that's what I want to bring back: The wholeness of the individual, and the fact that's essential, really, for our becoming fully mature. (...)

I think aliveness is a beautiful mystery. People argue about there being life and being death, and there being aliveness and being matter. And I don't think there's a difference....I think the whole universe is alive, and we emanate out of the universe... (..)

We haven't been able to track it down, we haven't been able to pin it down, conceptually, to define it...we try very hard, to define it, but in order to really investigate aliveness we somehow have to kill the integrity of aliveness, we have to cut inot an animal, or to cut into a cell, and so on...aliveness is this beautiful mystery, which is probably for me at the core of the existence of the universe..." Stephen Gallegos

 

[Aaron]

I think the whole universe is alive, and we emanate out of the universe... (..)

We haven't been able to track it down, we haven't been able to pin it down, conceptually, to define it...we try very hard, to define it, but in order to really investigate aliveness we somehow have to kill the integrity of aliveness, we have to cut inot an animal, or to cut into a cell, and so on...aliveness is this beautiful mystery, which is probably for me at the core of the existence of the universe..." Stephen Gallegos

 

Hello Ulises,

 

I think what we're missing is the fact that many religions have done exactly what's said here, try to pin down, for the lack of a better word, the source, and only marginally been successful. My point, which Kate has also made, is that they have been marginally successful and by understanding what they've learned, I can learn from that. That is why I believe it's necessary to be skeptical, but not write everything off. If you are advocating giving up our beliefs and reexamining them, then that I can agree with, but to give them all up and say that nothing is true is, in my opinion, not only wrong, but a mistake. To do this is to recreate the mistakes already made, rather than learn from them.

 

Aaron

 

edit- I just thought of a good analogy... If someone has already journeyed to a destination that you wish to visit, is it not wise to ask them how they got there and what it's like? By asking this question, one can make their own decision regarding which path to take and also whether the journey is worth making. To believe someone else's journey was false from the beginning, seems to me like the archaeologists who are willing to say Egypt was capable of great achievements, but because those achievements don't measure up to our current perception of what an achievement is, still believe them to be less advanced than our own civilization.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Twinner

[Otis]

"...we are born with our aliveness, and we need to help that aliveness come together into a unity. And essentially we've kind of forgotten all of that in our culture. We put everything into words and ideas and concepts, and essentially ignore the wholeness of the individual.

That's a good point. Not only is certainty the opposite vector from growth, it's also the opposite vector from compassion.

 

If I tell myself a story about who someone else is, or what they need, then I have placed my own concepts in the way of listening to them. I have reduced them to the simalucrum that I have constructed in my head.

 

Compassion, IMO, is not doing the thing that I think is right, because the road to hell is said to be paved with those intentions. Compassion is a form of caring listening, in which my awareness, rather than my concepts, leads directly to my actions.

[Aaron]

That's a good point. Not only is certainty the opposite vector from growth, it's also the opposite vector from compassion.

 

If I tell myself a story about who someone else is, or what they need, then I have placed my own concepts in the way of listening to them. I have reduced them to the simalucrum that I have constructed in my head.

 

Compassion, IMO, is not doing the thing that I think is right, because the road to hell is said to be paved with those intentions. Compassion is a form of caring listening, in which my awareness, rather than my concepts, leads directly to my actions.

 

 

Hello Otis,

 

I think what's being advocated here is compassion. What I think is being advocated is the abolishment of ideas under the guise that ideas are bad. Even if we give up stories, ideas, how are we supposed to exist? Can we go day to day without any concept of what should or shouldn't be done. Te may arise from Tao, but it doesn't mean that something doesn't cause it to arise. If we use compassion as an example, the only way we really know what Te is, is by understanding what it isn't. I think one line from the Tao Te Ching can dismiss most of this, the line that states, "If all the world saw good as good, that in itself would be evil." If one advocates that everything is evil, that doesn't mean that believing that is good.

 

Aaron

Edited April 22, 2011 by Twinner