We cooked hamburger last night

[Encephalon]

My pregnant wife first pointed out how dreadful it smelled, and being the sensitive husband that I am I accused her of being pregnant and out of her mind (Not really.)

 

But I too began to feel really turned off by the smell. It wasn't rotten - I just thawed it out, bought it at Trader Joe's - but has anyone had this experience? I don't remember it being this bad. Unfortunately our 14 yr old loves it, so we have to break down every once in awhile to keep her happy, but organic is 6-7 dollars a pound.

 

What's the Taoist eco-alchemical spin on America's stock of ground up dead flesh? Is it the New World Order? And can we please get a barfing emoticon added to the list?

[ralis]

My pregnant wife first pointed out how dreadful it smelled, and being the sensitive husband that I am I accused her of being pregnant and out of her mind (Not really.)

 

But I too began to feel really turned off by the smell. It wasn't rotten - I just thawed it out, bought it at Trader Joe's - but has anyone had this experience? I don't remember it being this bad. Unfortunately our 14 yr old loves it, so we have to break down every once in awhile to keep her happy, but organic is 6-7 dollars a pound.

 

What's the Taoist eco-alchemical spin on America's stock of ground up dead flesh? Is it the New World Order? And can we please get a barfing emoticon added to the list?

 

Trader Joe's is usually fine. If in doubt they happily will give you store credit. We rarely eat red meat and for me the taste isn't all that thrilling. However, Buffalo burgers or stew is fine with me. Not certain why.

 

Honestly, the quality of food in general is deteriorating. I believe the agra-business model coupled with population growth is responsible for this problem. I suppose that could be another thread. I am a professional Horticulturist and I have some knowledge as to how all this functions.

[Encephalon]

Horticulture? That's the practice of raising prostitutes, is it not?

[ralis]

Horticulture? That's the practice of raising prostitutes, is it not?

 

I am considering moving my business to your town, given that it is the porn capital of the world. I am certain they need my services. :lol:

[Encephalon]

I am considering moving my business to your town, given that it is the porn capital of the world. I am certain they need my services. :lol:

 

Look for the sign, one mile from the Ronald Reagan freeway!

[ralis]

Look for the sign, one mile from the Ronald Reagan freeway!

 

 

What will these fundies think of next. After 2000 years one would think fundies would give it up.

 

What are your thoughts on the agra business model? Most don't have clue where their food comes from, how it is raised and grown or even what is in it.

Edited April 1, 2011 by ralis

[Marblehead]

I would likely have the same experience with hamburger. Haven't cooked it in the house for many, many yeears.

[ralis]

I would likely have the same experience with hamburger. Haven't cooked it in the house for many, many yeears.

 

When I drive past Burger King, the smell of those burgers is very tempting. Which raises the question of, if one is enlightened, does any of this matter? If only Vajrji were here, I am certain he would have the answer.

[Encephalon]

What are your thoughts on the agra business model? Most don't have clue where their food comes from, how it is raised and grown or even what is in it.

 

My thoughts? Well, like any self-respecting college boy, my thoughts are standing on the thoughts of the giants writing in the field; Michael Pollan, Eric Schlosser (Fast Food Nation), Vandava Shiva, John Robbins (Diet for a New America), Marion Nestle (Food Politics). I made use of all these guys for semester projects, but one of my favorite undergrad profs taught agricultural geography and I was able to go to Cuba for a couple weeks and study their organic urban horticulture, which exploded when the Soviets stopped sending them oil and fertilizer.

 

The subject is huge in sustainability circles too. Bottom line, industrial meat production is just as obscene as any other industrial process that externalizes costs, foists the diseconomies onto the public sector, destroys topsoils and groundwater and reduces human lifespan, all the while demanding subsidies and tax credits from the public treasury and turning around and bragging about the successes of free enterprise. Oh yeah, the systwem works really well for the relative few.

 

It's okay though. Once the petroleum inputs dry up, we'll decentralize our food production and eat less meat. of course, with without industrial AG, billions of people will starve to death. But whatya goin' to do? Extinction is looking like it'll be a democratic process; we're all gonna pay a price.

[ralis]

My thoughts? Well, like any self-respecting college boy, my thoughts are standing on the thoughts of the giants writing in the field; Michael Pollan, Eric Schlosser (Fast Food Nation), Vandava Shiva, John Robbins (Diet for a New America), Marion Nestle (Food Politics). I made use of all these guys for semester projects, but one of my favorite undergrad profs taught agricultural geography and I was able to go to Cuba for a couple weeks and study their organic urban horticulture, which exploded when the Soviets stopped sending them oil and fertilizer.

 

The subject is huge in sustainability circles too. Bottom line, industrial meat production is just as obscene as any other industrial process that externalizes costs, foists the diseconomies onto the public sector, destroys topsoils and groundwater and reduces human lifespan, all the while demanding subsidies and tax credits from the public treasury and turning around and bragging about the successes of free enterprise. Oh yeah, the systwem works really well for the relative few.

 

It's okay though. Once the petroleum inputs dry up, we'll decentralize our food production and eat less meat. of course, with without industrial AG, billions of people will starve to death. But whatya goin' to do? Extinction is looking like it'll be a democratic process; we're all gonna pay a price.

 

 

Urea production was small until natural gas was introduced to the process which made it possible to produce in mass quantities. Thereby, crop production allowed an increase in global population. Some writers have claimed that the population increase needed increased use of nitrogen based fertilizers to sustain a growing population. That premise does not hold up to scrutiny. Abundance of food leads to population growth. Especially, where population controls are not in place. Relevant examples are, India and China before making it illegal to have more than 1 child.

 

Thom Hartmann has repeated many times that without fossil fuels, the planet can only sustain around 500 million.

 

With recent spikes in fuel costs and those of several years ago, there was hoarding of rice in central Asia that led to food shortages, and starvation of many.

 

Thom Hartmann interviewed some conservative pundit last year who claimed the world could sustain a population of 12-15 billion with no problem! The planet is unable to sustain the present population and with droughts, wars and food shortages matters can only become worse.

 

Unfortunately, I don't remember the pundits name. Maybe I can find it.

Edited April 1, 2011 by ralis

[joeblast]

Fish stinks the house up to high heaven, too

 

I cook as much outside as possible - I even dragged my grill right up to my sliding glass door on the porch for the winter

[Encephalon]

Urea production was small until natural gas was introduced to the process which made it possible to produce in mass quantities. Thereby, crop production allowed an increase in global population. Some writers have claimed that the population increase needed increased use of nitrogen based fertilizers to sustain a growing population. That premise does not hold up to scrutiny. Abundance of food leads to population growth. Especially, where population controls are not in place. Relevant examples are, India and China before making it illegal to have more than 1 child.

 

Thom Hartmann has repeated many times that without fossil fuels, the planet can only sustain around 500 million.

 

With recent spikes in fuel costs and those of several years ago, there was hoarding of rice in central Asia that led to food shortages, and starvation of many.

 

Thom Hartmann interviewed some conservative pundit last year who claimed the world could sustain a population of 12-15 billion with no problem! The planet is unable to sustain the present population and with droughts, wars and food shortages matters can only become worse.

 

Unfortunately, I don't remember the pundits name. Maybe I can find it.

 

I too find dark humor in these rosy forecasts. We're only 7+ billion now, and that's with 3.5 billion living on $2 a day or less. It's amazing how utterly glib we can be while half of the human family is subjected to so much suffering.

[Marblehead]

When I drive past Burger King, the smell of those burgers is very tempting. Which raises the question of, if one is enlightened, does any of this matter? If only Vajrji were here, I am certain he would have the answer.

 

Hehehe.

 

Actually, I got off red meat purely for health reasons. Nothing mystical about it. I do still eat fish and fowl.

 

Nothing matters but everything matters.

[Immortal4life]

Absolutely I have. I used to love the smell of meat, and loved eating it. But when I swtiched to vegetarianism, after about 3-6 months, something changed. After not eating or being around meat for several months, when it was cooked around me, I all of a sudden noticed I couldn't stand the smell, it smelled bad to me.

 

In my case, what I think it was, was that when you don't eat something and aren't around it, you become much more sensitive to it.

 

Beef now smells to me like what fish used to smell like when I was a meat eater. I can't even stand being around fish now. I used to wonder how people in Korea and places like that eat Octopus, raw fish, and things like that. They are just so used to it, so they don't smell them like Western people would.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

When I drive past Burger King, the smell of those burgers is very tempting. Which raises the question of, if one is enlightened, does any of this matter? If only Vajrji were here, I am certain he would have the answer.

 

Burger King has vegetarian burgers I think....

[torus693]

.

Edited April 8, 2011 by torus693

[Marblehead]

I all of a sudden noticed I couldn't stand the smell, it smelled bad to me.

 

I have heard this from many vegetarians. They say the cooking meat smells rotten to them.

[ralis]

but organic is 6-7 dollars a pound.

 

 

In general, organic meat is a scam to fleece people out of their money. Whole Foods is the major culprit. Organic grass fed steaks range from 9.99/pound to 15.99/pound. I grew up in small town Ohio, in the country and I know what grass fed is. These beef cows are free range have lots of space to hang out and eat grass to their hearts content. At night the farmer brings a truckload of hay (alfalfa) for the herd. That is it. No grain, hormones etc. that add to production costs.

 

I guess the plutocrats that are the major consumers of this scam must have strange pastoral visions in their heads while shopping at Whole Foods.

 

Given the amount of pesticides and herbicides in the environment and the drift of by wind and water, there is no guarantee of real organic meat or produce. Further, there are many water supplies contaminated by fertilizer runoff.

Edited April 1, 2011 by ralis

[mYTHmAKER]

I have heard this from many vegetarians. They say the cooking meat smells rotten to them.

 

Yes Yes yes

[Encephalon]

In general, organic meat is a scam to fleece people out of their money. Whole Foods is the major culprit.

 

I'm not sure about the first sentence; that would be a good research question. My immediate guess is that organic ranchers can't keep up with demand, and their smaller size keeps them from taking advantage of economies of scale. They probably don't qualify for all the water subsidies and other advantages that industrial meat producers get, such as really cheap subsidized grain that would kill cattle if they weren't slaughtered.

 

This is where we used to get beef on occasion when we lived up in the CA wine country. (Why did I move to LA? )

http://www.chilenobnb.com/beef.html

Edited April 2, 2011 by Blasto

[ralis]

I'm not sure about the first sentence; that would be a good research question. My immediate guess is that organic ranchers can't keep up with demand, and their smaller size keeps them from taking advantage of economies of scale. They probably don't qualify for all the water subsidies and other advantages that industrial meat producers get, such as really cheap subsidized grain that would kill cattle if they weren't slaughtered.

 

 

I spent the month of Feb. in Ohio visiting family. I compared prices and inquired as to how poultry and beef are raised locally. The meat my parents buy would be considered organic by any standard. The prices are probably half of Whole Foods prices. There never has been a problem with demand outstripping supply.

 

I bought chickens raised by Amish producers as well as other local producers. Honestly, the poultry was very lean as compared to the organic chickens that have more fat and cost more at Whole Foods.

 

I know this is just one example and may not apply in many locations.

 

One problem with the organic movement is the hype coming from the health food industry and various purveyors of advice with a profit motive. The CEO and founder of Whole Foods said during the health care debate that people don't need health insurance and instead should shop at Whole Foods. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that is what he said.

 

When I was growing up, several families would buy a cow and have it butchered and then frozen. No hormones. Just grass and hay. To my knowledge, the beef was not allowed to age.

Edited April 2, 2011 by ralis

[aridus]

I'm not a vegetarian and I admit to having a burger now and then.

 

But I also have to say that ground up, processed anything just seems... somehow wrong to me, intuitively.

 

I'd rather eat bugs. I have eaten bugs. I know that grosses some people out, but grasshoppers etc. can be nice.

 

Anyway, to get to the point: I think things being processed, and sitting around, and processed again, is not good. It changes it. I can tell.

 

Meat is not my primary thing, I prefer it with vegetables and rice if I have it, but I also can do fine on no meat, when I do have meat I find personally it is better the less that is done to it. Just cut and cooked is fine. Over coals or wood is better, I think gas heat or electric heat causes problems also.

 

I also find using iron or steel, or especially aluminum, has bad effects. Personally, if I had my way, I'd use only wet leaves, skewers, or stones.

[torus693]

.

Edited April 8, 2011 by torus693

[ralis]

Canola oil is used in all whole foods brands that contain oil as ingredient.

 

Trans fats increase liver fire -dampness that inhibits cellular ion exchange.

 

"Canola oil took the market by storm, as it is relatively inexpensive to produce, especially compared to olive oil. Olive oil has a long history of scientifically documented health benefits. The problem with olive oil is that there is not enough olive oil in the world to meet the industry's needs. In addition, olive oil is too expensive to use in most processed foods. Canola oil has filled this need for a mass-produced, publicly acceptable form of a monounsaturated oil.

 

Olive oil is the gold standard, documented with extensive research. Quality olive oil (Extra Virgin, Cold-pressed) is manufactured by this simple process: The olives are pressed, the oil collected. The food oil industry is promoting Canola oil as an equally healthy twin to olive oil. This is deceptive, as there are few studies involving Canola oil and human health. (Numerous animal studies point to serious and deleterious effects of canola oil on rats and pigs.)

 

In addition to the genetic modification, the process of making Canola oil is troubling. The procedure involves a combination of high-temperature mechanical pressing and solvent extract, usually using hexane. Hexane! Even after considerable refining, traces of the solvent remain. Like most vegetable oils, Canola oil also goes through the process of bleaching, degumming, deodorizing, and caustic refining, at very high temperatures. This process can alter the omega-3 content in the oil, and in certain conditions bring the trans fat level as high as 40 percent.

My link

 

The only way to prove either hype or hoax is to do more human studies evaluating the safety of this mass-produced and consumed human-engineered oil. The FDA claims that genetically altered/engineered foods are perfectly safe. (They made this same claim with Thalidomide and Vioxx.)

 

At least the FDA has taken a stance to protect babies from the unknown risks of Canola oil. The FDA prohibits Canola oil from being used in infant formula. Shouldn't we know why? ""

 

MSDS on Hexane: Toxicology

 

May cause impaired fertility. Harmful by inhalation. Irritant. May cause CNS depression. Prolonged exposure may cause serious health damage.

 

 

Olive oil is an excellent choice. However it has a low flame temp. and is not suitable for cooking

[torus693]

.

Edited April 8, 2011 by torus693