The Cambrian Explosion

[Immortal4life]

[Jetsun]

That's nice, you do realise you are on a Taoist discussion board right?

[Maddie]

[Mandrake]

"The length of the Cambrian explosion is ambiguous and uncertain, but five to ten million years is a reasonable estimate; some say the explosion spans forty million years or more, starting about 553 million years ago. Even the shortest estimate of five million years is hardly sudden. "

 

Why not read more here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC300.html

 

 

Anyway, enough with these threads - this is the third already. Can I suggest that the mods move these to the Off Topic forum?

 

 

Mandrake

[gendao]

One interesting thing I find in this Documentary is the interviews with Chinese scientists. They say scientists in China recognize more openly than many in the west that the fossil record does not fit with evolution theory, and are not so insistent on fitting data to the theory of evolution when it does not fit with it.

Well, Chinese scientists are far more agnostic in general about spiritual and paranormal phenomena like various theories on the origin of life, UFOs, etc. because they have no real vested interest in them either way. So, they're a lot more open-minded and free-thinking on these topics.

 

Whereas in the West, everything is very heavily polarized one way or the other by Christian Fundy ideology. The whole "Christian" Creationism vs. "scientific" evolution debate is thus essentially just a proxy for Deism vs. atheism. IOW, what people are really arguing about here is whether there IS or is NOT a "God."

 

Of course, that is often an irrational emotional belief to begin with - which the person then tries to rationalize through his religious or scientific position chosen out of confirmation bias.

 

IOW, people don't believe in "God" because they became Christians - they became Christian because they already believed in "God." And people didn't become atheists because they became scientific - they became scientific because they were already atheist.

Edited April 6, 2011 by vortex

[Immortal4life]

That's nice, you do realise you are on a Taoist discussion board right?

 

Why wouldn't Taoists want to look at issues like science, biology, history etc. Do you not have your own ideas about how the universe works?

 

You might have a new or unique perspective on these things.

 

It's like someone mentioned, with Chinese scientists, they might not get so polarized in debates and might not always get trapped into looking at it in polarized ways.

[Jetsun]

Why wouldn't Taoists want to look at issues like science, biology, history etc. Do you not have your own ideas about how the universe works?

 

You might have a new or unique perspective on these things.

 

It's like someone mentioned, with Chinese scientists, they might not get so polarized in debates and might not always get trapped into looking at it in polarized ways.

 

So shall I start a whole load of threads about all my interests like the Chelsea v Man U football game i'm watching right now because Taoists might like sport? you realise if everyone was as egotistical as you to think that their interests are so important that they should be shoved down peoples throats despite the relevance to the board then this wouldn't be a Taoist board at all, it would just be full of all sorts of crap.

[Immortal4life]

I don't think your analogies are very good. Issues like how the universe works, and history, are relevant to spiritual beliefs.

 

However, of course you could make football relevant. Taoist ideas, athleticism, and martial arts have certainly been incorporated by people in the past.

[Immortal4life]

"The length of the Cambrian explosion is ambiguous and uncertain, but five to ten million years is a reasonable estimate; some say the explosion spans forty million years or more, starting about 553 million years ago. Even the shortest estimate of five million years is hardly sudden. "

 

Why not read more here:

 

Lol, talkorigins is so unconvincing.

 

They try to turn it around. They try to refute what they present as a "creationist" argument about the Cambrian. In this case "Creationist Claim: Life appeared suddenly in the Cambrian Period".

 

Wow. I am impressed. They proved, once again, that the world wasn't created in 6 literal days, and the Earth isn't 6000 years old. Someone give them a blue ribbon or something!

 

However, it doesn't change the fact, that the Cambrian was and is also a problem for Darwin's Theory.

 

Anyway, enough with these threads - this is the third already. Can I suggest that the mods move these to the Off Topic forum?

 

 

Mandrake

 

Edited April 6, 2011 by Immortal4life

[三江源]

I guess if nobody wants to discuss evolutionary theories with immortal4life, the threads will die away.

 

At the moment 'off topic' seems to be quite out of favour : quite a catholic selection of topics is here under the heading 'Taoist Discussion', and the topic of how the world began is no less relevant to taoists than anything else...

 

If you want "off topic" to be more strenuously enforced as a filing system for posts, it would make sense if it was applied across the board, and the decision of what is 'ot' or not is open to interpretation.

 

Having said that, if one poster repeatedly opens new threads on the same topic, at some point it would be considered anti social and be open to moderator action.

 

I have always loved creation myths and stories, and I feel that meditative practise does for lots of us lead to an involvement with questions about genetic origination. Just as people like to know the lineage of their teacher, and find lineage practises filtering through to them spontaneously, and past life knowledge sometimes surfaces, people sometimes find themselves with potentially disquieting or intriguing senses and questions about How It All Began.

[Immortal4life]

That's an interesting phrase, "genetic origination".

 

That is for sure a deep mystery.

 

In spirituality and religion it goes even further. Many traditions have seen a type of conflict that is difficult to transcend. The Mind vs. Matter debate. Or spiritual ideals vs. material ideals.

 

The truth is, I believe what I am saying, as well as many of the responses to me, have been relevant. I am not flooding the board, and threads that are not popular will fall off the page quickly.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Apech]

So shall I start a whole load of threads about all my interests like the Chelsea v Man U football game i'm watching right now because Taoists might like sport? you realise if everyone was as egotistical as you to think that their interests are so important that they should be shoved down peoples throats despite the relevance to the board then this wouldn't be a Taoist board at all, it would just be full of all sorts of crap.

 

I wonder if Wayne Rooney is pre-cambrian ... if one is looking for a primitive form of life that is. Just speculating of course. Or perhaps looking at it the other way scoring a hat full of goals is evidence for intelligent design???

[Marblehead]

I'm surprised that this thread is still in the "Taoist Discussion" forum.

[三江源]

I wonder if Wayne Rooney is pre-cambrian ... if one is looking for a primitive form of life that is. Just speculating of course. Or perhaps looking at it the other way scoring a hat full of goals is evidence for intelligent design???

 

Mickey Rooney never went to Cumbria did he. He remained pre - Cumbrian all his life.

 

Not many people know that.

[Marblehead]

Mickey Rooney never went to Cumbria did he. He remained pre - Cumbrian all his life.

 

Not many people know that.

 

I didn't even know he had ever been to England.

[三江源]

I didn't even know he had ever been to England.

 

You may be drifting off topic, Marbles.

[lazy cloud]

Why wouldn't Taoists want to look at issues like science, biology, history etc. Do you not have your own ideas about how the universe works?

 

You might have a new or unique perspective on these things.

 

It's like someone mentioned, with Chinese scientists, they might not get so polarized in debates and might not always get trapped into looking at it in polarized ways.

I think you have also had threads about Taijiquan, Baguazhang, different aspects of Qi, the Brain, and so forth. Why should anyone care what topic you choose to start a thread about as long as it is not attacking anyone?

 

Some of your threads get alot of views, others not so much. A thread will run its own course naturally. If anyone chooses to participate or not is their choice. How many threads have there been on the subject of Penis? Some of those threads get alot of views and replies. It is very subjective business to say which thread belongs or not IMO.

 

I have also observed that many of the folks who complain about someone bringing politics or religion into the conversation ARE the very ones who do so themself.

 

Immortal4life, I have to give you credit for maintaining your cool and staying polite

throughout the dicscussion.

[aridus]

A problem with the fossil record does not entirely refute the theories. It just gives them some problems.

 

Casual thought may say "The fossil record is inconsistent! Theory is wrong!" which is exactly why the casual do not get very far in this.

 

Evolution is not equal to abiogenesis. They are entirely different, one does not depend on the other at all.

[Mandrake]

[uote name=Immortal4life' date='06 April 2011 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1302120942' post='253542]

Lol, talkorigins is so unconvincing.

 

 

That's hardly an argument. Maybe everything that points to a position different to yours is unconvincing to you?

 

[uote name=Immortal4life' date='06 April 2011 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1302120942' post='253542]

They try to turn it around. They try to refute what they present as a "creationist" argument about the Cambrian. In this case "Creationist Claim: Life appeared suddenly in the Cambrian Period".

 

Wow. I am impressed. They proved, once again, that the world wasn't created in 6 literal days, and the Earth isn't 6000 years old. Someone give them a blue ribbon or something!

 

However, it doesn't change the fact, that the Cambrian was and is also a problem for Darwin's Theory.

 

 

You didn't read the material in the link at all; nowhere does your statement capture the presented reasoning.

[uote name=Immortal4life' date='06 April 2011 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1302120942' post='253542]

 

 

It is easier to use these kind of responses rather than try to argue with words?

 

Mandrake

[Marblehead]

You may be drifting off topic, Marbles.

 

Would you consider the possibility that it is an intended process?

 

I heard somewhere that Walt gave Mickey Mouse his first name in honor of Mickey Rooney.

[Marblehead]

You may be drifting off topic, Marbles.

 

And besides, you started it. Hehehe.

[Apech]

And besides, you started it. Hehehe.

 

Its an evolving subject. From microbes to Mickey Rooney.

[Marblehead]

Its an evolving subject. From microbes to Mickey Rooney.

 

My mind does that all the time. One word leads to another.

 

Reminds me of a song:

 

Talking about Bill and Mary where they had a small arguement, nothing really, but one word lead to another and the last word lead to a divorce. They both had to feed their own ego and their arguements never considered their little daughter Sue.

 

Microbes are interesting people even though they don't talk much.

[三江源]

Its an evolving subject. From microbes to Mickey Rooney.

 

via Cumbria, without mentioning sausages, out of respect to vegetarians.

[Immortal4life]

That's hardly an argument. Maybe everything that points to a position different to yours is unconvincing to you?

 

Not at all.

 

But that one was just, so, biased and weak.

 

 

You didn't read the material in the link at all; nowhere does your statement capture the presented reasoning.

 

Basically their number one point was that the Earth wasn't created in 6 days and it is older than 6000 years.

 

Oh yeah, they made a bunch of points attempting to defend the evolutionary perspective on the Cambrian, but it was a bunch of overly simple, list of excuses basically. They were grasping at anything they could.