is life just the epitome of suffering?

[whynaut]

It seems odd to me that people here would tell you to learn to be happy. Are we not Daoists and Buddhists here?

 

Consider this. There is phrase that goes "Abandon hope". This is a paraphrased saying of what it says to the entrance of Christian Hell, but conversely it is also one of the key phrases Buddhists need to learn to reach enlightenment.

 

The problem with Western ideals is that we think if we can remove the "evil" then things will be "good". But Daoism speaks that goodness and evil are interconnected. Like the yin and yang, it is the contrast with one that gives the other its shape. For example, one may say that forcing a child to eat only bread and water is evil, but if the child was starving before then that same action becomes good. If you don't have a girlfriend because you lost her, you feel pain; but if you never had the girlfriend, you would be in the exact same position but feel no pain.

 

One of the basic fundamentals of Buddhism is that desire begets suffering, to remove suffering one must first remove desire. There is a place beyond good and evil, pleasure and pain, contentment and suffering. It is called enlightenment.

[Marblehead]

There is phrase that goes "Abandon hope".

 

I have done that. But I do still on occasion take action in order to kick-start something that doesn't want to start on it own.

[Non]

I had a lot of anger response in me, very fiery, very volatile. The healing sounds helped me a lot, I used to vent liver sometimes just walking along the road, had to do it very regularly. They are very useful and fast acting in the moment, and offer a deeper balance, over the long term.

 

Healing sounds

 

I do another healing sounds though.

 

Liver - Xu (Shooooo)

Heart- He (Huuuuhhh)

Spleen - Hu (Hooooo)

Lungs - Xia (Shiiaaaa)

Kidneys - Jue (Chueeeyyyyy)

Triple Warmer - Xi (Shiiiiiiii)

[Aaron]

Hello Non,

 

I wanted to get back to your original post and make some points I think are pertinent to what you're experiencing. First, I wanted to look at the question, "Is life the epitome of suffering?"

 

I think that the most important thing to take notice of is the fact that you use the world "life". I'm assuming that you are not using this word in the sense of life being the process of living, but rather the experience of living. In that sense, if you are asking is the experience of living just the epitome of suffering, I would have to say no. In my own experience of living I've found that life is not merely suffering, rather suffering is a part of it. I know the Buddhists will tell you about Samsara, but I've never bought into that. The fact is suffering cannot exist without joy, rather it is the fact that suffering is a negative experience that causes us to place more emphasis on it than we do joy. I could ask the question, "is life just the epitome of joy?" And the answer could be true.

 

The fact is life is just life. You experience pain and suffering in life. You must experience pain and suffering, because without it you can't experience bliss and joy.

 

With that said, I will offer you a few pearls of wisdom that I've been fortunate enough to have learned from others.

 

1) The best thing to do when you are feeling overwhelmed, depressed, or sorrow is to help someone out who is less fortunate than you. Wallowing in misery wont help misery to disappear.

 

2) When you are feeling a certain emotion, try to figure out the root of why you are feeling it, not just the surface root, i.e. "my girlfriend left me" but the real root, the thing that caused you to fall into this emotional roller coaster in the first place. Why does this abandonment hurt so much? What is the cause of your feeling of abandonment?

 

3) This too shall pass. Simpy put, time heals all wounds.

 

4) Life is not what you make it. Life is the experience of living. You can try your hardest to succeed but still fail. So rather than try to succeed or worry about failure, just do it, live it, and let it be what it is.

 

I'm sensing that you are still a young man, so keep this in mind, this is only the beginning, you have your whole life to live, so don't think that what's happening now is the end, but rather that this moment you're living in right now is just the beginning.

 

Finally, don't fall into this trap of thinking life is the epitome of suffering, rather look at life as the link between you and everything else that exists.

 

Aaron

Edited April 17, 2011 by Twinner

[Gjeken]

Self-Acceptance with Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT)

 

[三江源]

I do another healing sounds though.

 

Liver - Xu (Shooooo)

Heart- He (Huuuuhhh)

Spleen - Hu (Hooooo)

Lungs - Xia (Shiiaaaa)

Kidneys - Jue (Chueeeyyyyy)

Triple Warmer - Xi (Shiiiiiiii)

 

oh, that's groovy.

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Aaron]

Even joy can be something that people attach to. The opposite spectrum of someone who is feeling depressed and loathsome about life's suffering: Is someone who is always chasing after positive experiences, like a druggie looking for his next high, escaping from themselves and reality, searching for something to fill the void within. The joyful moments of life are also transient, and won't last forever.

 

Though there is a state beyond both the mundane and supramundane reality, within us all regardless of where we are and whether experiencing life's round of suffering or joy...CowTao describes this very well: Try viewing life without the words. Delimit your verbal and intellectual assessments of life in an attempt to live life instead of talking about it. You might be surprised at how such an exercise could bring you to the threshold of bliss and clarity, almost as if one is on a constant verge of orgasming, yet never really peaking. Gradually, the pleasurable feelings comes wave after wave, unending, always one followed by another and another. When this is experienced, then the next exercise is the challenge to drop even this ecstatic practice. Then you might get a glimpse of what is meant by the words, "No birth, no old age, no death". Such a realization is like tasting the nectar of immortality, and instead of hankering after this higher, more exquisite and sublime experience, which creates yet another round of craving, albeit a higher and subtler one, this too, is abandoned after a while. IF you can achieve this, not much can harm you or dislodge you from your center.

 

It is true what he says... that is true joy; though his experience of this is definitely deeper than mine.

 

 

Hello Simplejack,

 

I'm not a buddhist, nor do I believe in samsara or the need to drop attachments. In my own opinion the Tao is actually encouraging us to become more attached rather than unattached. In my own experience of spiritual "awakening" I did not experience a cessation of emotion, but rather an understanding of the nature of emotion. When one begins to understand him or herself, what they realize is that there is a lot of needless emotion that serves no purpose. Worry, sorrow, guilt to name a few. Now that's not to say there aren't times when these emotions do serve a purpose, but rather that you begin to recognize when they are not necessary.

 

I'm sure Buddhist enlightenment is grand and ecstatic (this isn't sarcasm), but my own experience regarding "enlightenment", or if you'd rather, "awakening" is of the Vendanta variety and it is less than spectacular, in fact it seemed quite ordinary, as the world itself still does. Anyways, have a good one.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also I'm not sure where you got the idea I was encouraging people to be endlessly joyous, or that it's even possible to be endlessly joyous, rather I was explaining that suffering was as necessary as joy, in fact you can't have one without the other. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Twinner

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Aaron]

Hello Simplejack,

 

Thank you for sharing your experience with Buddhism. I have studied some of the Zen texts and read a few books about Buddhism, so I do know some of the basics. Samsara, the four noble truths, and the eight fold path, to me, are dogma. That doesn't mean that one shouldn't pursue them if they feel the need, but I feel that it's not needed, nor necessary. I do believe in reincarnation, mind you, just not the Karmic and Dharmic cycles that perpetuate Buddhist mythology. With that said, no religion has the corner on "True" enlightenment or awareness (or spiritual experience). In fact I think most tend to result in the very opposite. The organized structure is meant to derive a very singular experience, and in experiencing that singular experience, the student is not even aware that it is not the only thing one needs to experience.

 

In regards to the Taoist texts regarding attachment, what I would remind you is that most of this is greatly influenced by Buddhist thought. In fact most Taoist teachings aren't strictly Taoist, but really a hybrid of Confucianism, Traditional Chinese folklore, and Buddhism. Keeping that in mind, it makes complete sense that the orthodox Taoist belief would be so similar to the Buddhist beliefs.

 

Don't let this give you the wrong impression about me, I like Buddhists mind you. I've never had any (offline) evangelize about Buddhism to me. Most feel, as I do, that it's not needed. Buddhism isn't needed. Christianity isn't needed. Moralism isn't needed. In my own experience what is needed is an awareness of one's place within reality. If they can achieve that, then everything else will simply fall along the wayside.

 

We are only I, no body, no mind, just I. When you truly understand this, then you have no need of enlightenment.

 

I hope life finds you well.

 

Aaron

Edited April 19, 2011 by Twinner

[Aaron]

mispost...

 

Aaron

Edited April 19, 2011 by Twinner

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[ShaktiMama]

I tend to hold the idea in my mind perhaps subconsciously or so that life is just ultimate suffering and life throws at me just the opposite of what I need and desire, what would break my hear in the most brutal fashion.

 

Especially manifested in the yin, or feminine in my life. In woman.

 

That life throws at my opposition in the most symmetrical fashion, that which would make me suffer the most in extreme.

 

That life is nothing but pure suffering in the most lowest in primitive form, that ultimate truth and peace spirit, beauty, etc can never be known.

 

That life is pure nightmare and nothing else. taking advantage of all of my highest energies to fulfill the lowest of goals. Playing on all of my most extreme fears.

 

It's incredible the depth that I feel this.

 

 

Maybe I've just had my heart broken so much that I feel like this is all that becomes of life.. and I'm stuck in this thought, stagnant in thinknig life is nothing but pure suffering and that I should just end it all with a tragic suicide.

 

I'm not kidding. I do not know what is real.

 

Join the club. We all have been there. But you don't have to remain there. I have been on this list for over a year and a half now and this is your repeating theme most often when you post. It tells me you are not really doing anything effective. You have been given excellent advice and support over the year. You might try following it.

 

life can be the epitome of suffering or the epitome of joy. So I am going to say something incredibly trite. Did you take the red pill or the blue pill? That applies here.

 

s

[zerostao]

for me life is the epitome of joy, wonder ,happiness. there are challenges and tempatations but those are opportunities to learn and overcome. i would think

that materialistically speaking. i have less than 99% of the bums. i dont need it or even want it. i have everything i truly need. i have peace.

the last time someone offered me to choose between 2 pills, i probably took both of them. (figuratively speaking)

 

Non if you wanna come hang out for a bit, you are welcome to do so. if you do choose to do so, i will wager you will see things in a different light.

for some reason the advice you have been given is not having an effect, so i suggest you come in person. pm me dude , put the tragic suicide on hold and take a little road trip.

[Non]

Join the club. We all have been there. But you don't have to remain there. I have been on this list for over a year and a half now and this is your repeating theme most often when you post. It tells me you are not really doing anything effective. You have been given excellent advice and support over the year. You might try following it.

 

life can be the epitome of suffering or the epitome of joy. So I am going to say something incredibly trite. Did you take the red pill or the blue pill? That applies here.

 

s

 

 

maybe it's because of this: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18175-sigh/

[Soar]

maybe it's because of this: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18175-sigh/

 

Have you read Iron John: A Book About Men by Robert Bly?

http://www.amazon.com/Iron-John-Book-About-Men/dp/0679731199

 

Also hes got a free video up on google here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3145952730483171546#

 

Check it out. Hes not going to tell you to just grow a pair.

[ShaktiMama]

maybe it's because of this: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18175-sigh/

 

 

A long time associate of mine is a retired famous dominatrix. She would have quite a bit to say about this article. Check with her if you want to know from someone who practices this art. She is also a sexual shaman and has mature kundalini. Why don't you contact her if you think your problems are because of being too yin a male. She is pretty balanced between her Yin and Yang but she can demonstrate when necessary the most dominant authentic yang female.

 

She no longer practices as a dominatrix but maybe you would benefit from interacting with a healthy strong sexual female. She can have quite the insight into the human condition.

 

Here is her website. She used to specialize in training males into men of knightly character who knew how to respect and treat the Feminine. She gives Shaktipat also and is a competent healer and empath. There are people on this forum who are friends with her and I know would probably recommend her to you also.

 

http://kundalini-teacher.com/

 

She and I are both natural alphas but her approach to training is different than mine.

 

 

In my opinion, the author of that article has an ax to grind and is not reliable source of info.

 

good luck,

s

[ShaktiMama]

double post

Edited April 21, 2011 by ShaktiMama