Do you think Eckhart Tolle is enlightened?

[Jetsun]

Tolle is probably the most successful spiritual writer of recent times, some people even say he is now more influential in this area than people like the Dalai Lama and obviously has a real talent in writing and talking about this stuff, but do you think he has a strong permanent realisation of enlightenment?

 

He teaches a sort of instant enlightenment but i'm not sure if I believe this is possible as all the patterns of thought and ego create grooves in your mind and energy which by default you follow unless you go through a long gradual process of letting go of those patterns and purifying. Buddhists have debated the concepts of instant enlightenment vs gradual enlightenment for hundreds of years but my understanding is that the gradual school of thought seemed to come out on top simply because of the amount of realised masters it produces.

 

I have tried to see if I can see anything different about him from his videos but i'm not particularly impacted by them and i'm starting to wonder if he might just be a real smart guy well educated in this area of thought and not enlightened at all.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deq_1lg9Dlo

 

What do you guys think?

[therion]

Not even close.

[rookie]

Tolle is probably the most successful spiritual writer of recent times, some people even say he is now more influential in this area than people like the Dalai Lama and obviously has a real talent in writing and talking about this stuff, but do you think he has a strong permanent realisation of enlightenment?

 

He teaches a sort of instant enlightenment but i'm not sure if I believe this is possible as all the patterns of thought and ego create grooves in your mind and energy which by default you follow unless you go through a long gradual process of letting go of those patterns and purifying. Buddhists have debated the concepts of instant enlightenment vs gradual enlightenment for hundreds of years but my understanding is that the gradual school of thought seemed to come out on top simply because of the amount of realised masters it produces.

 

I have tried to see if I can see anything different about him from his videos but i'm not particularly impacted by them and i'm starting to wonder if he might just be a real smart guy well educated in this area of thought and not enlightened at all.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deq_1lg9Dlo

 

What do you guys think?

 

I think it is wise to carefully consider a potential teachers qualities in depth, and err on the side of caution with anything that comes up.

 

Have you considered asking him direct questions?

 

Otherwise, I personally think that this kind of discussion about someone's state of consciousness to be rather a waste of time.

 

By the way, I know nothing about him. I am turned off by the popular or "rock star" teachers that are so common. Life is my primary teacher you?

[寒月 Hanyue]

Not even close.

 

+1

 

I think he is aware, and has a knack for communicating certain ideas, but thats as far as it goes.

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Jetsun]

I think it is wise to carefully consider a potential teachers qualities in depth, and err on the side of caution with anything that comes up.

 

Have you considered asking him direct questions?

 

Otherwise, I personally think that this kind of discussion about someone's state of consciousness to be rather a waste of time.

 

By the way, I know nothing about him. I am turned off by the popular or "rock star" teachers that are so common. Life is my primary teacher you?

 

I read his books a few years ago but I don't really consider him one of my teachers, I am just quite surprised at how much impact he has been having as I am a member of quite a few forums many of which have nothing to do with spirituality and lots of people are talking about him and seem to think he is the greatest teacher who ever lived. I heard he was on Oprah and in this list of the worlds most influential spiritual teachers they name him as number one http://www.watkinsbooks.com/review/watkins-spiritual-100-list I know it doesn't really mean anything I just find it interesting that he may be pretending he's enlightened and getting very rich in the process, when in reality he may just be repeating a few bits and bobs from some eastern spiritual books he has read. Although I guess he may be doing a good service by spreading certain ideas.

 

The thing I find funny is that people read his book and then suddenly think that they can live in the now just by their own willpower, like reading the book is all they need to permanently live in the now, but as far as I know he hasn't led anyone else to enlightenment through his teachings.

[johndoe2012]

Edited December 11, 2011 by chris d

[gendao]

No he is not.

 

Also enlightenment is instantaneous, but we have to gradually cultivate in order to get to that point. Even though there is nothing to truly gain, we have to gradually come to that realization. Just the way things are.

Interesting, how can you tell and why do you think he isn't?

 

I would assume that he has experienced nonduality. Isn't this at least the first step or stage of enlightenment?

 

And there was a long build-up to this awakening as he suffered for many, many years from depression prior to this. So, I would agree that the whole process itself is often anything but "instant."

[Otis]

There is no way that I could possibly know if someone else was enlightened.

 

However, I do think Tolle is right-on, in most (if not all) of what he says. His books have a lot in common with Buddhist and Taoist teachings (and he gives them their due), but I wouldn't say that he's "ripped them off" in any way. That implies a dishonesty that I haven't seen any hint of. Yes, he makes a living from teaching and book sales, but that's also true of people on this forum. Are we to imply that any one who makes a living off of their gifts is dishonest?

 

I don't think the sutras are particularly approachable for a Western audience. The authors who can translate those ideas into a modern metaphor, and who can reach people living a Western lifestyle; I think they're doing a great service to mankind. Authors like Don Miguel Ruiz, Paul Ferrini, Benjamin Hoff, etc., help build a bridge of understanding, to help disentangle modern neuroses, and lead readers toward the lessons of the old traditions. The purists hate on them, but I think that's being attached to tradition, and putting it over compassion.

 

I'm sure there were people who hated on Buddha, as well, when he was teaching, because he probably seemed to be stealing from the old masters.

[三江源]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by 三江源

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

He states that awakening slows the aging process. He sure doesn't look 64. Good genes or ...?

[lino]

Not awakened by condition or a hearer.

[Gjeken]

Yup

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[innerspace_cadet]

He can certainly talk the talk, but I wonder how he would react to his wife leaving him, losing his fortune, losing his reputation, the bank foreclosing on his house, and so on. Would it cause mere ripples in his mind, or tidal waves?

 

You can say you're enlightened, or "awakened" or whatever, but life has a way of showing a person what his true spiritual colors are.

[thelerner]

He can certainly talk the talk, but I wonder how he would react to his wife leaving him, losing his fortune, losing his reputation, the bank foreclosing on his house, and so on. Would it cause mere ripples in his mind, or tidal waves?

 

You can say you're enlightened, or "awakened" or whatever, but life has a way of showing a person what his true spiritual colors are.

I think he'd do better then most. The story is before he got famous he, like a few other highly spiritual people had a near suicidal depression. He got over it, spent years sitting on a bench before a few people started listening to his wisdom.

 

I don't think listening to him brings miracles, but it relaxes me and opens me up a bit.

 

So to me... I consider him.....more enlightened then most .

Edited April 13, 2011 by thelerner

[C T]

What is the yardstick for measuring his enlightened status?

 

I am thinking his appeal lies in the possibility that he is soft spoken, and that he possesses quite a humble demeanor. Many would equate gentleness with enlightened status, but such a view can, and often is, lacking.

 

I would not consider him enlightened, nor would i consider him unenlightened. He is a propagator of a message, a messenger with an angle on how to conduct oneself in ways that offer the possibility of thinking, speaking and acting mindfully. There are many on this board that does exactly the same thing, so those who do, would perhaps not care if Tolle is or is not enlightened. I can surely see that he is a wise man for sure. What more could one ask for?

 

Maybe the more un-centered i am, the more centered he would appear - does this make sense? The more strife there is - the less equanimity there is in the world - the more people crave for peace. I believe the way of Tao teaches this... and this is exactly to the point.

Edited April 13, 2011 by CowTao

[Ulises]

I find his writings indistinguishable from other nondual teachers from different wisdom traditions, with his non sectarian approach (altough with references to the many wisdom traditions) being the key of his success. I think he embodies the evolutionary future of spirituality: People awakening without "isms" (schools, hierarchies, lineages,etc.,etc.)...

In fact, he is being quoted/asked to write blurbs more and more by other more traditional teachers (Sufi, Zen).I find a strong similarity with Krishnamurti...

He is not my favourite cup of tea, but I find his articulation refreshing at times and very clear

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIaY0l5qV0c

[Otis]

One thing that I think is tough about nondual writers: they are writing to be understood by egos, not by enlightened beings.

 

So, how would one write for egos, in such a way as to suggest the path that is already there in front of them, without getting the egos to fixate on the words, and start making a religion out of them?

 

The best answer, I think, is people like Tolle. Live prophets can be understood, but once they're dead, only the shell of their truth tends to remain (and it becomes ossified). So we need more live prophets who "get it".

 

If we don't have new modern interpreters, then we get stuck with the words from the past, and religion continually shows, that we get those words wrong. We deify the old masters, instead of listening to them. We turn concepts like "luminous emptiness" or "the kingdom of heaven" into a divine state, instead of a normal, physiological one. We make Qi esoteric and tantra forbidden. We make the spiritual knowledge into a "closed door" teaching, letting in only the chosen few.

 

Modern interpreters (can) break down the b.s., and help us re-focus on how these ancient concepts apply to our lives now. I think we should applaud those who bring light into others' lives, instead of rejecting them, because they don't sound exactly how we think they should.

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Otis]

-

Edited April 14, 2011 by Otis

[C T]

LOL! Actually, you come across as a hater towards "most people".

Why do you think this?

 

SJ and his observations, to me, are always pretty sound. I do not see him as a hater at all. Not sure, but it may be that your vision has been tainted. And its not a LOL matter either.

[aridus]

I stopped when he said "suffering deepens you". I find this to be a dangerous concept. I don't believe suffering 'does' anything, people unlock things within themselves and it diminishes. What is unlocked is not always 'positive'. What is unlocked can at times come from being jaded and callous and there are plenty of jaded, callous people in the world to attest to this.

[xabir2005]

Tolle is probably the most successful spiritual writer of recent times, some people even say he is now more influential in this area than people like the Dalai Lama and obviously has a real talent in writing and talking about this stuff, but do you think he has a strong permanent realisation of enlightenment?

 

He teaches a sort of instant enlightenment but i'm not sure if I believe this is possible as all the patterns of thought and ego create grooves in your mind and energy which by default you follow unless you go through a long gradual process of letting go of those patterns and purifying. Buddhists have debated the concepts of instant enlightenment vs gradual enlightenment for hundreds of years but my understanding is that the gradual school of thought seemed to come out on top simply because of the amount of realised masters it produces.

 

I have tried to see if I can see anything different about him from his videos but i'm not particularly impacted by them and i'm starting to wonder if he might just be a real smart guy well educated in this area of thought and not enlightened at all.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deq_1lg9Dlo

 

What do you guys think?

Eckhart Tolle is at stage one and two of Thusness Seven Stages of Enlightenment

 

It is the realization of I Am, not yet the realization of anatta or emptiness

[Otis]

Why do you think this?

 

SJ and his observations, to me, are always pretty sound. I do not see him as a hater at all. Not sure, but it may be that your vision has been tainted. And its not a LOL matter either.

Actually, my earlier post was flippant and ill-conceived. I didn't mean to challenge Simple Jack (although I do think he's a bit over-certain about absolute matters). I was kind of making a joke, but it doesn't really make sense when I look back at it.