Chinese Metal Element

[rex]

I'm scratching my head trying to work out which Western element, or combination of elements, is equivalent to the Chinese metal element. Air? Air and earth? Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks

Edited April 14, 2011 by rex

[Immortal4life]

There may not be any equivalency between the Chinese Wu Xing, and Western ideas of elements.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Gerard]

What do you mean by Western element? Metal is metal, here on Earth or in a planet in Cassiopeia:

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

What do you mean by Western element? Metal is metal, here on Earth or in a planet in Cassiopeia:

 

 

I believe immortal was referring to the "western element" paradigm of "earth, water, fire, wind (void)".

 

As to the question the OP.....

 

This bugged me a lot too in the past, and I got to a point where I found an answer that I liked, and then I..... forgot!

 

So I did enough research and practice until I got to the point where I found a satisfactory answer, and then quit apparently stopped caring. So a satisfactory answer is out there (I know that if I were you reading this post of mine, I would NOT have been satisfied )

 

But you should also probably know that it's highly doubtful you'll care once you find an answer

 

If I recall what it was that made me satisfied, I'll post it.

[fiveelementtao]

I'm scratching my head trying to work out which Western element, or combination of elements, is equivalent to the Chinese metal element. Air? Air and earth? Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks

 

Western & Vedic Elements do correspond with Taoist..

 

Wood = Ether

Metal = Air

Fire = Fire

Water = Water

Earth = Earth

 

Westerners have lost their understanding of Elements since the forced conversion of Christianity onto pre christian animist europeans. Modern Western magicians don't seem to understand how to interpret Air and Ether and get them confused. Eat Indian "Vedic' magicians still understand the elements and call Ether = Akasha. The Teutonic tribes called Ether "Aethem."

 

I have been reintegrating these systems for awhile and have a video explaining the similarity between early pre-christian Elements and Taoist Elements.

 

Either these Elements are Universal scientific principles or they are not. I believe that they are based on experience with them. Therefore, I believe if we look at them scientifically, we will find their counterparts in outher legitimate energy practices...

 

Here is my video from my site... (sorry don't have time to embed)...

 

http://www.thunderwizard.com/page40/page12/page19/in%20depth.html

http://www.thunderwizard.com/page40/page12/page19/page20/creationmyth.html

[dawei]

The western five elements are not really analogous to the Chinese five phases (which is a better term since they are transforming and changing). So, on a certain level ALL Five Phases are ONE transforming/changing process, but they are shown in five stages of generation.

 

There are a few cycles and they are bi-directional but the most common cycle is the Sheng Cycle:

Wood > Fire > Earth > Metal > Water > Wood >> [start again]

 

 

By the idea of "correspondence", each phase is associated to numerous characteristics (directions, emotions, color, taste, etc).

[fiveelementtao]

In order to crack this nut, it is important to go beyond book knowledge, surface symbols, beyond cultural limitations and find the Universal application and look at this phenomenon holographically, IMO, if these sciences are not Universally applicable, they are just intellectual ideas... Those who have experienced the power of the Elements or phases know firsthand these are not just intellectual ideas... But to make the connection one must go beyond the symbolism and explore the functions of these processes in order to see the correlation between Western (Which includes Vedic/East Indian Elements)...

 

To find their universal application outside of their cultural definitions, one must be willing to think Universally and holographically... making cursory comparisons based on book knowledge will not solve the questions..

 

Just because the Chinese refer to the Elements also as "phases" does not negate their universal connection to what is referred to in Western terms as Elements. "Phases" is another description of the holographic function of the Elements.

 

Another aspect of Elements is their function in terms of energy manifestors.

Wood/Ether - Expanding Energy

Metal/Air - Contracting Energy

Fire - Rising Energy

Water - Descending

Earth - Condensing Energy

 

 

Wood is Liver and Hun souls, the highest of earthly energies. Liver is connected to the planet Jupiter which is expansive in Nature in both Taoist and Hindu thought. Inhalation is done through expansion of lungs and energizes the body. But, too much expansion is not good, so Metal counteracts it with Contraction. The Exhalation releases toxins while energizing the Wei Chi/ Aura through the contraction of the lungs.

Metal is connected to Lungs, so there is the connection of metal to the Air Element.

 

the connections of Fire, water and earth are pretty recognizable, so there is little confusion there. The only confusion is the confusion of TERMS Metal with Air and Wood and Ether. Once one can see the similarities in FUNCTION rather than symbolic terms, the Universal connection is pretty clear...

[VCraigP]

Regarding the metal element.

 

Metal color is white. To the Chinese "white" also means "clear". So metal element can also be viewed as transparent, hence like air.

 

That all makes a lot of sense until you read that Metal is also considered to be gold as well by some scholars but I can see it both ways.

 

Also, I agree the most important is to see the function, characteristics, properties of the elements.

Fire Radiates

Wood expands, grows , rises

Earth condenses

Metal Contracts, falls

Water element falls but also represents the extreme of contraction and has the aspect of magnetizing, attracting.

 

So I see the Wuxing similarly but I suppose I hold an awareness of the poles of Fire and Water as balancing extremes. Fire Radiates rather than rises. Water attracts, magnetizes rather than descends, though they both have these aspects I see the rising as belonging more to wood and the descending as belonging more to Metal.

 

Craig

[Edward M]

When i trained xingyi, metal was associated with pichaun which was associated with the lungs, which are associated with air.

 

 

Ed

[Ulises]

I enjoyed a lot reading Eliot Cowan's book. His insights about the 5 Elements/phases - gained through shamanic journeying - are great: For example, I love how he reveals that the source of authority of the masculine energy of Metal/Air ("our heavenly father..."/Zeus for the gnostics)...is in allowing oneself to feel grief...

 

http://www.amazon.com/Plant-Spirit-Medicine-Healing-Plants/dp/1893183114

 

 

 

 

Pagan Gnostic Archetypal Elemental Correspondence:

 

Zeus/Air

 

Demeter/Earth

 

Hades-Dyonisos/Fire

 

Persephone/Water

Edited April 15, 2011 by Ulises

[RyanO]

I like the interpretation Eric Yudelove gives in his Tao and the Tree of Life. Basically, that metal is air(-) and wood is air(+). I could go into it more but here some relevant links:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/15976-taoist-magic/page__p__219231__hl__yudelove__fromsearch__1entry219231

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/14058-beginning-taoist-practices/page__st__80

Edited April 16, 2011 by RyanO

[寒月 Hanyue]

Mmm, thanks to everyone who has posted thus far, though I don't think there will ever be a satisfactory answer to this.

 

There are LOTS of ways I have seen people try to make correspondence between the Western elements, Indian elements, and Chinese. Some do not really make much sense if you really look at them, others do and yet there are still different ways of coming to a conclusion, so?

 

I have mainly seen the same correspondence as the one given by 5ET;

 

Chinese Indian Greek

Wood - Void - AEther

Metal - Air - Air

Fire - Fire - Fire

Water - Water - Water

Earth - Earth - Earth

 

Though, from the way the Indian and Chinese systems are conceptualised and used I have come to view them as two distinct ways of using "five" to understand the greater Universe. Though there are countless versions that try to assimilate the two as one system, I have rarely seen one that really sits well with me (it is like all the variations of trying to align the chakra with the Otz chim, and other such things).

 

I mean, there has been disagreement and debate concerning the elements and an understanding of them since, well probably since we first came up with them to make sense of the Universe. In ancient Greece Thales felt the world started from water, Anaximenes felt it was air.

 

Seek your own understanding through direct experience and only use other peoples as a loose rough guide to help you get engaged with them, that is the best advice I think, and certainly agree with 5Et on doing this and seeking personal deeper understanding rather than surface knowledge from texts.

 

Best,

[manitou]

I really don't know much about any of this, but I did follow one of the above links on Wikipedia and it talks about fire being the Quintessence.

 

There's something quite strange about fire. It seems to be the midpoint between matter and non-matter. I've come to think that fire and 'the fire within our chest' are one and the same, and that we all spring from fire anyway - perhaps all the suns are points of awareness, the planets are offshoots with their molten middles, we are offshoots of the planet and the fire within.

[dawei]

I like the interpretation Eric Yudelove gives in his Tao and the Tree of Life. Basically, that metal is air(-) and wood is air(+).

Which of course makes sense since air both contracts and expands.

 

I really don't know much about any of this, but I did follow one of the above links on Wikipedia and it talks about fire being the Quintessence.

 

There's something quite strange about fire. It seems to be the midpoint between matter and non-matter. I've come to think that fire and 'the fire within our chest' are one and the same, and that we all spring from fire anyway - perhaps all the suns are points of awareness, the planets are offshoots with their molten middles, we are offshoots of the planet and the fire within.

Note that in energy/energetic/qigong, 'fire' is often associated to the Kidney and/or lower dan tian realm. TCM seems to explain it a little differently than the energetic model but they don't have to completely agree. The latter's associations to the kidney are probably due to the emphasis on practice, development and preservation of the kidney essence.

[Christoph]

metal=sword

(s)word=air

 

English is an occult crafted language like that

[whynaut]

I personally do not see inherent connection between Metal and Air. In the Chinese Elements the element Air is most related to chi/qi which means "air, breath, or gas". Chi/Air is the fundamental force that is inherent to all the other five elements. Not to mention that in the Greek view Metal would likely be paired up with Earth since it comes from the Earth and has little in common with the other more amorphous elements.

In this way, bunching up the two element styles quickly becomes awkward:

 

Chinese - Greek

 

Fire - Fire

Water - Water

Earth - Earth

Wood - no equivalent

Metal - Earth

CHI - Air

 

Also, in Greek Elements each of the four has a relatively equal standing in that no element is necessarily stronger than any other. In Chinese Elements, however, each element can be used to create or destroy another element in the cycle.

[Ulises]

resonances between

"Aloha": Hawaian (Breath of Life)

"Elohim": Hebrew

"Hey": Native American medicine word

 

no language is arbitrary...

[Ulises]

I personally do not see inherent connection between Metal and Air. In the Chinese Elements the element Air is most related to chi/qi which means "air, breath, or gas". Chi/Air is the fundamental force that is inherent to all the other five elements. Not to mention that in the Greek view Metal would likely be paired up with Earth since it comes from the Earth and has little in common with the other more amorphous elements.

In this way, bunching up the two element styles quickly becomes awkward:

 

Chinese - Greek

 

Fire - Fire

Water - Water

Earth - Earth

Wood - no equivalent

Metal - Earth

CHI - Air

 

Also, in Greek Elements each of the four has a relatively equal standing in that no element is necessarily stronger than any other. In Chinese Elements, however, each element can be used to create or destroy another element in the cycle.

 

The mythopoetic reasoning by Eliot Cowan is that the Chinese compared Air to metal because of the preciousness of th latter...I admit is a tenuous link and could be a esoteric thread here..but, anyway, the organs correspondence for Metal in the 6 Healing SOunds are intestines...and LUNGS...

[rex]

Thanks everyone Sorry haven't been able to get to a computer recently and I'll be offline for a few days so I'll respond more fully when back online.