Taiwan or China?

[mantis]

Hey,

 

A few of you may recognize my screen name although I haven't been active on here for some time. I am finally financially stable enough to travel and have enough "free" income to invest in spiritual pursuits and trips of the sorts and am very excited at the possibilities.

 

Just as I was thinking of all of this, however, it hit me; could Taiwan be a better place to visit to truly learn Taoism instead of China? If I understand correctly more than a few masters fled to Taiwan after Mao took over. I really have no idea if my thoughts have any basis as I have never seen Taiwan even mentioned on this forum.

 

There is always Wang Liping, however, teaching in China which is very tempting... any input?

 

Thanks

[Gerard]

Deleted.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Gerard

[henro]

I agree, China. . . and you might need to spend a lot of time there. I've been going every year since 2006, sometimes a few times a year, visiting Taoist mountains, practicing in the parks, and talking with monks and nuns. This past trip in December I finally felt like China really opened up for me. Lots of great opportunities came my way, and I'm headed back next week to follow up. Learn the language and the history, and take the time to develop relationships. When people see that you are serious teachers will find you.

[Dr. Dcup]

Hi, I triple that, China definitely. It's the source. Not belittling Taiwan but they don't have Wudang Mountain, Hua Mountain, etc. Also good luck. When you return please share your experiences.

[de_paradise]

Taiwan is a good place to learn Buddhism, because there are many sects and places, and they are open to foreigners. Almost all of the Taoism is the folk-religion type, not the cultivation type. I have a strong attachment to Taiwan regardless of the "ism". You find that the entire society will instill certain values of patience, non-violence, diligence, filiality. I think the Taoists try to blend in, or keep their secrets, so its not a bunch of strangely-clad people on a mountain, like perhaps in Wudang.

 

I have been travelling China for many years, from when it was a very harsh place even to visit, till now, and have accumulated too many memories of stressful situations, which I think biases my opinion of China. Its full of amazing people.

[baiqi]

Taiwan is a place where Chinese tradition has been much more preserved than in Mainland China, no doubt about it. Also, it is a much better place to live, in my opinion.

 

However, as others stated, the Taoism there is more from the "Tianshi" scool, which means more "magic", rituals etc. than self-development. In contrast, Mainland Taoism is more "Quanzhen", or self-cultivation oriented. So that depends on what you're looking for when you say you want to study taoism.

[bodyoflight]

Taiwan is a place where Chinese tradition has been much more preserved than in Mainland China, no doubt about it. Also, it is a much better place to live, in my opinion.

 

However, as others stated, the Taoism there is more from the "Tianshi" scool, which means more "magic", rituals etc. than self-development. In contrast, Mainland Taoism is more "Quanzhen", or self-cultivation oriented. So that depends on what you're looking for when you say you want to study taoism.

 

What's the difference between "magic" and "self-cultivation"?

 

Do you think anyone is gonna be able to perform "magic" if he doesn't "self-cultivate"?

[bodyoflight]

btw i am not sure if the taiwanese are higher than the mainlander chinese

 

but i can tell you for sure that there are many thai masters who are more powerful than the taiwanese or mainlander chinese..

 

take for example this Lersi below..

 

 

he is able to meditate in a pot of boiling oil.. can any taiwanese or chinese taoist masters do that?.. i hardly think so..

[SimoninTaiwan]

Hi

 

I would say China has more chance but still its a big haystack.

 

A few things do u speak Chinese?

 

I live in Taiwan and I am not very gifted at Languages but it is a must if you plan on getting in touch with any thing other than what is put out there and advertised to make money.

 

Obviously there are exceptions but on the whole you need the language. If you have it already great.

 

If not then I would get on a course in the mainland and learn, this will give you opportunity to research within the country and get an informed opinion first hand of where to go.

 

Good luck.

[bodyoflight]

Hi

 

I would say China has more chance but still its a big haystack.

 

A few things do u speak Chinese?

 

I live in Taiwan and I am not very gifted at Languages but it is a must if you plan on getting in touch with any thing other than what is put out there and advertised to make money.

 

Obviously there are exceptions but on the whole you need the language. If you have it already great.

 

If not then I would get on a course in the mainland and learn, this will give you opportunity to research within the country and get an informed opinion first hand of where to go.

 

Good luck.

 

If one really wanna go to china and learn the chinese arts, then i would suggest going to bhutan or the himalayas mountains.

 

The chances of one finding a great teacher is higher in these regions than in the rest of china.

 

Or better yet, skip the flight times and go get mantak chia's stuff. His works represent the highest teachings in taoism. You would hardly find a better taoist teacher than chia.

Edited April 17, 2011 by bodyoflight

[Gerard]

Deleted.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Gerard

[adept]

he is able to meditate in a pot of boiling oil.. can any taiwanese or chinese taoist masters do that?.. i hardly think so..

 

So what !

My master is better than that.

When he's hungry, he eats. When he's tired, he sleeps.

[adept]

You would hardly find a better taoist teacher than chia.

 

I've found a better teacher of the Tao here.

[bodyoflight]

I've found a better teacher of the Tao here.

 

chia is one of the best in the sense that he is willing to evolve and improve ancient taoism cultivation methods

 

no practice should always remain stagnant.. they should always evolve continuously..

[bodyoflight]

So what !

My master is better than that.

When he's hungry, he eats. When he's tired, he sleeps.

 

a true master is able to perform miracles .. that will be the mark of his true progress..

 

the rest are just bs actors

[thelerner]

a true master is able to perform miracles .. that will be the mark of his true progress..

 

the rest are just bs actors

 

I agree with Adept. If powers become too important you may end up with a teacher who's a caricature of a cartoon. There may be a level where you gain Siddhi's, but seems to me the great ones push past it and become pretty regular people. The poor ones stay at that level and grow ego's til they burst.

 

Chop wood, carry water, do the laundry. The most impressive teachers I've seen would be dismissed by someone looking for a story book master.

 

I recently took a seminar with Ya Mu. He looks like he'd be at home at a Southern truck stop. Middle aged, excessive poundage, quite ordinary. But looking beyond that, bright eyes, excellent breath - deep, long, he moves strongly, excellent balance. He's studied with masters and put in countless hours on the mat, also Medical Qigong is results oriented. He doesn't doesn't fit the stereotype, a quick look would not reveal the mastery.

 

Its good to be skeptical, but beware of setting standards based on false assumptions. Starting a relationship with a teacher by asking them to 'show you a miracle' is a quick way to get thrown out, whether they can perform one or not.

 

Looks can be deceiving.

[adept]

a true master is able to perform miracles .. that will be the mark of his true progress..

 

the rest are just bs actors

 

True masters

 

 

 

 

None of these performed 'miracles'

Edited April 19, 2011 by adept

[bodyoflight]

True masters

 

 

 

 

None of these performed 'miracles'

 

yes those "masters" are famous but were you there to see them perform "miracles"?

 

truth is .. when a true master has something worthwhile to teach, he has to prove that he is the real thing and not just another fraud out there..

 

siddhis is but one way of testing a master

Edited April 20, 2011 by bodyoflight

[bodyoflight]

I agree with Adept. If powers become too important you may end up with a teacher who's a caricature of a cartoon. There may be a level where you gain Siddhi's, but seems to me the great ones push past it and become pretty regular people. The poor ones stay at that level and grow ego's til they burst.

 

Chop wood, carry water, do the laundry. The most impressive teachers I've seen would be dismissed by someone looking for a story book master.

 

I recently took a seminar with Ya Mu. He looks like he'd be at home at a Southern truck stop. Middle aged, excessive poundage, quite ordinary. But looking beyond that, bright eyes, excellent breath - deep, long, he moves strongly, excellent balance. He's studied with masters and put in countless hours on the mat, also Medical Qigong is results oriented. He doesn't doesn't fit the stereotype, a quick look would not reveal the mastery.

 

Its good to be skeptical, but beware of setting standards based on false assumptions. Starting a relationship with a teacher by asking them to 'show you a miracle' is a quick way to get thrown out, whether they can perform one or not.

 

Looks can be deceiving.

 

there are many ways to test teachers without "asking" them to show miracles.. even if a master refuse to show powers, there is a way to test how high they are..

 

particularly when one has developed some power himself..

 

here's a tip.. you can feel the aura or energy of a high-level master..

 

everybody, even the non- spiritual ones, has low-level siddhis one way or another but how many masters can walk through the wall?..

 

some of the highest masters can walk through the wall or heal a cut immediately or levitate..

 

fact is, everybody thinks that the path of spirituality is one straight path.. however there are many different paths and most paths are a waste of time and energy ..

 

the real path of spirituality is an applications-based path.. if you can't see yourself developing siddhis on the path, then what you are doing is a waste of time and energy..

Edited April 20, 2011 by bodyoflight

[baiqi]

Hsu Yun has been credited with some "miracles". One of them was that he was beaten very badly by the red guards during the cultural revolution, when he was around 90 years old. He was in meditation and did not react. When he "woke up", he had lost his sight partially, but he managed to live another 20 years in an overall good condition.

 

This scared the red guards themselves. Also, the communist authorities became "more tolerant" on buddhism after that.

 

About siddhis in general: I said that before, beeing in the Tao is NOT about getting special powers. However, it may happen (most probably) that some "weird" things happen in the process. There are some things, such as telepathy, that people consider "supernatural", I consider it just a natural thing more developped within people who have empathy.

 

Back to the original question (Taiwan or China): my experience in China and Taiwan indicated to me that Taiwan was more respectful of Chinese culture than the Mainland. Some disagree; I cannot make an argument here, it depends on how you see "traditional Chinese culture". Also, the mainland is huge, it differs very much from one place to another.

[bodyoflight]

A lot of people knock mantak chia ..

 

Now although chia is not one of the highest masters out there.. i don't think he can walk through walls or heal people's cuts immediately.. but he is pretty high..

 

how do i know that? cos i have seen his face and felt his aura..

 

he is like 60+ year old yet he looks 40+ and you can feel the reservoir of chi he possess..

 

you can tell a lot by just looking into a person's eyes and feeling his soul for his level of enlightenment or power..

[bodyoflight]

Hsu Yun has been credited with some "miracles". One of them was that he was beaten very badly by the red guards during the cultural revolution, when he was around 90 years old. He was in meditation and did not react. When he "woke up", he had lost his sight partially, but he managed to live another 20 years in an overall good condition.

 

This scared the red guards themselves. Also, the communist authorities became "more tolerant" on buddhism after that.

 

About siddhis in general: I said that before, beeing in the Tao is NOT about getting special powers. However, it may happen (most probably) that some "weird" things happen in the process. There are some things, such as telepathy, that people consider "supernatural", I consider it just a natural thing more developped within people who have empathy.

 

Back to the original question (Taiwan or China): my experience in China and Taiwan indicated to me that Taiwan was more respectful of Chinese culture than the Mainland. Some disagree; I cannot make an argument here, it depends on how you see "traditional Chinese culture". Also, the mainland is huge, it differs very much from one place to another.

 

if that guy is good enough, he would have gotten away with using fa jin to push away or withstand attacks..

 

fact is, i have no idea who your man is..

 

there are many levels on the true path of spirituality.. many tests which you have to take which one can only pass by using his siddhis..

 

the masters don't talk about these "tests" too often.. hehehe...

[Cat Pillar]

if that guy is good enough, he would have gotten away with using fa jin to push away or withstand attacks..

 

fact is, i have no idea who your man is..

 

there are many levels on the true path of spirituality.. many tests which you have to take which one can only pass by using his siddhis..

 

the masters don't talk about these "tests" too often.. hehehe...

 

You don't think a 90-year-old man surviving a brutal beating by the red guards undefended, with only some partial-sight loss to show for it, isn't a siddhi? I think taking a brutal beating without even responding to it shows a pretty high level of attainment.

 

It's pretty impressive to me. While I'm not a true pacifist myself, there's something very powerful in nonviolence that in my opinion should be greatly respected.

[Gerard]

Deleted.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Gerard

[bodyoflight]

You don't think a 90-year-old man surviving a brutal beating by the red guards undefended, with only some partial-sight loss to show for it, isn't a siddhi? I think taking a brutal beating without even responding to it shows a pretty high level of attainment.

 

It's pretty impressive to me. While I'm not a true pacifist myself, there's something very powerful in nonviolence that in my opinion should be greatly respected.

 

If that guy is good enough, he will not be injured in the first place.