The Genius of Charles Darwin

[DalTheJigsaw123]

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/genius-charles-darwin/

[Trunk]

A little ditty I wrote a while back,

"A few facts about Darwin (and a chance to right an injustice)"

1) Not the first husband from "Bewitched". (thx B.Maher)

 

2) In the old days Great Britain sponsored research naturalists aboard ships going abroad. Why? Naturalists made good maps - which strengthened British trade and dominance via the seas. So Charlie Darwin was sponsored to sail aboard the HMS Beagle from December 1831 through October 1836, a period of a little less than 5 years.

 

3) Poor Charlie got sea sick, *bad*. Like, never let up, never adjusted to being at sea THE WHOLE TIME!!! Green, sick, throwing up, *yuck!*, tmi. Well, not really "the whole time". The deal was that the Beagle would drop him off on land where he'd do his research, then later they'd pick him up for another round of nauseous barfing. Luckily he was most of the time on land, but, of that almost-5-yr-trip he was sick-as-a-dog aboard the Beagle for about 18 months total.

 

I don't know... I mean, he gets credit for the theory of evolution and everything, but I think he really also deserves another trophy. ...or *some*thing. Hey!, in fact, you & me, in this small way, right now, we can help restore balance to the force. If you're impressed by his devotion to science and by his intestinal fortitude (or rather lack of) please give Chuck a round of applause.

 

See, doesn't that feel better?

Universal love, baby, we'll all for each other.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

A little ditty I wrote a while back,

"A few facts about Darwin (and a chance to right an injustice)"

 

Interesting!

Thanks!

[Otis]

Darwin was one of a handful of geniuses in the 19th and early 20th centuries who really helped shift the West in a more Taoist way of thought, even though he would never have thought of it that way.

 

Einstein's Relativity gives the new paradigm its name, because he showed that there was no such thing as a special place in the universe, that no point of view was absolute. Nietzsche explored what meaning was like, free of the crutch of a God. Godel showed that our mathematics was still a reflection of human thinking, and thus limited. The early quantum physicists showed that reality was utterly different than our senses suggest. And Darwin put us in our place in the animal kingdom, showing that we have not only rodents in our lineage, but also fish, protozoan, plant, and bacteria. I think Dawkins is Darwin's true successor, as he has revealed that unwittingly, we have been the transport system for DNA (rather than them serving us), and now, the transport system for ideas and technology.

 

In each successive revelation, the special place that man wants to create for himself, in which he is the center of the universe, is just shown to be so much wishful thinking. We are a process, an ecosystem, a step along the way, a replicator, a speck. Humbling our need to be special, IMO, is the first step toward discovering what greatness we actually already have.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Otis

[Seth Ananda]

Darwin was an Alchemist, which is a branch of Hermetisism.

 

Evolution of the species through more and more complex forms of Life, is an old Hermetic Idea.

 

Darwin would have abhored Dwarkins.

[doc benway]

I just watched this excellent NOVA documentary on the Dover, PA trial

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-404729062613200911#

something I followed closely while it was going on.

The one thing I find really striking is the fact that multiple folks on the plaintiffs' side (opposing ID) received hate mail and even death threats. These presumably came from the "religious" contingent that supports teaching ID.

There is no greater irony to me than the violent predisposition of religious believers...

[manitou]

 

In each successive revelation, the special place that man wants to create for himself, in which he is the center of the universe, is just shown to be so much wishful thinking. We are a process, an ecosystem, a step along the way, a replicator, a speck. Humbling our need to be special, IMO, is the first step toward discovering what greatness we actually already have.

 

 

Interesting statement, bringing humility into the equation; eliminating our need to be special.

 

And yet there is a yin and yang to that as well.

 

The Sage takes his provision cart with him at all times, and therefore is 'in the center of the universe' at all times. There are no distinctions; all time and space are his. But this goes to your humility - in order to get to that point where you actually feel like the center of the universe (more accurately, you are totally aware of your part in it, as you said), this must be done without ego. It has to be tamed and sidestepped to achieve this awareness.

[Mandrake]

Darwin was an Alchemist, which is a branch of Hermetisism.

 

Evolution of the species through more and more complex forms of Life, is an old Hermetic Idea.

 

 

Now when I think about it, the fit is surprising; the refinement of the four kingdoms. Never linked them together, thanks Seth.

 

 

Mandrake

[三江源]

Darwin was an Alchemist, which is a branch of Hermetisism.

 

Evolution of the species through more and more complex forms of Life, is an old Hermetic Idea.

 

Darwin would have abhored Dwarkins.

 

Seth, I know you read "The Secret History of the World" by Johnathan Black... did you get the idea that we evolved from monkeys, when you read that? I wonder what your sense of it is.

[ralis]

Seth, I know you read "The Secret History of the World" by Johnathan Black... did you get the idea that we evolved from monkeys, when you read that? I wonder what your sense of it is.

 

The use of the term "monkeys" in the modern day sense does not in any way describe our origin. The fossil records show that we descended from a type of simian that I believe was four legged. When I find the link, I will post it. The book referred to in the above quote, is not science.

[三江源]

The use of the term "monkeys" in the modern day sense does not in any way describe our origin. The fossil records show that we descended from a type of simian that I believe was four legged. When I find the link, I will post it. The book referred to in the above quote, is not science.

 

Thanks Ralis. I know both those things you mentioned and I reckon so does Seth. I'm more interested in Hermetic and Alchemical ideas of origin than the mainstream ones, right now.

[Otis]

Interesting statement, bringing humility into the equation; eliminating our need to be special.

 

And yet there is a yin and yang to that as well.

 

The Sage takes his provision cart with him at all times, and therefore is 'in the center of the universe' at all times. There are no distinctions; all time and space are his. But this goes to your humility - in order to get to that point where you actually feel like the center of the universe (more accurately, you are totally aware of your part in it, as you said), this must be done without ego. It has to be tamed and sidestepped to achieve this awareness.

Good point, Manitou.

 

Parents will tell children: "you're not the center of the universe". And from the parent's perspective, this is obviously so. Of course, from the child's perspective, it is equally obvious that they ARE the center of the universe. No bit of the universe is real to them, unless it is in the child's immediate experience.

 

Since both perspectives are true, I think we need to be able to embrace the paradox. If we fool ourselves into "objectivity", if we fake being separate from our own concern (because we think we should not be the universe's center), then we will just build a wall between ourselves and immediate experience. We set ourselves back from our own process of living, and become detached. So IMO we need to live as the universe, not as something apart from it.

 

Likewise, if we forget that every other person is also at the center of their universe, then we make ourselves important, at the expense of the rest of the world.

 

If we remain in "not knowing" then we can approach every person (and indeed, every situation) with curiosity, humility and a sense of adventure, without ever being detached from the flow of life.

[manitou]

Good point, Manitou.

 

Parents will tell children: "you're not the center of the universe". And from the parent's perspective, this is obviously so. Of course, from the child's perspective, it is equally obvious that they ARE the center of the universe. No bit of the universe is real to them, unless it is in the child's immediate experience.

 

Since both perspectives are true, I think we need to be able to embrace the paradox. If we fool ourselves into "objectivity", if we fake being separate from our own concern (because we think we should not be the universe's center), then we will just build a wall between ourselves and immediate experience. We set ourselves back from our own process of living, and become detached. So IMO we need to live as the universe, not as something apart from it.

 

Likewise, if we forget that every other person is also at the center of their universe, then we make ourselves important, at the expense of the rest of the world.

 

If we remain in "not knowing" then we can approach every person (and indeed, every situation) with curiosity, humility and a sense of adventure, without ever being detached from the flow of life.

 

Really nicely said. Sometimes, when I'm on top of my game, I will mentally lower the invisible shield around me when in someone else's company, just so my essence can mingle with theirs. It's a wonderful feeling of connectiveness, even if it's the person you're standing behind in line at the supermarket.

[Otis]

Really nicely said. Sometimes, when I'm on top of my game, I will mentally lower the invisible shield around me when in someone else's company, just so my essence can mingle with theirs. It's a wonderful feeling of connectiveness, even if it's the person you're standing behind in line at the supermarket.

Well, of course, that's a great deal of the appeal of partner dancing! Lower the shields and mingle essences!

[Seth Ananda]

Seth, I know you read "The Secret History of the World" by Johnathan Black... did you get the idea that we evolved from monkeys, when you read that? I wonder what your sense of it is.

I would have to dig to find quotes, but the Idea that life [both spiritual and physical] Evolved through a series of stages, from less complex to more and more complex is a very old Idea. Its found in early Hermetic texts, Alchemy, the Illuminism stream of Sufism which is an Islamic branch of Neo Platonism, In places in Kabbalah, and hinted at in the Greek teachings.

 

This is not to suggest that they developed the theory in a great way, or collected empirical evidence, But Hermetisism sourced, Alchemy which gave birth to science.

 

Also, Hermetisism and its various offshoots, has a long tradition of trying to undermine the Church, and bring about a separation of church and State. Thats two things that modern science has picked up and ran with... lol.

 

Darwin and I share a belief in intelligent design that is completely contrary to the Christian Idea of it. Alchemists and Hermetisists Love science, as it is a process to understand the workings of the Divine in/through the world. I would never argue with evolution on any level, outside of being open to the possibility for new discovery's.

[manitou]

 

Darwin and I share a belief in intelligent design that is completely contrary to the Christian Idea of it. Alchemists and Hermetisists Love science, as it is a process to understand the workings of the Divine in/through the world. I would never argue with evolution on any level, outside of being open to the possibility for new discovery's.

 

I've had a hunch lately (that's all it is, a hunch) that when the evolved ape discovered how to harness fire and not fear it as a wild uncontrollable force, that metaphorically something was 'lit' within the spirit of the animal.

 

Maybe this could possibly be the connection between evolution and creationism; if not this particular event, maybe another. But I kind of like the idea of the discovery of fire, mainly that their lives must have changed dramatically once the concept of the campfire was grasped. No longer would they have to live huddled in fear at the back of a cave, fearful in the dark of animals and other spooky things. They would have time, around the fire at night, to develop a kinship that would have expanded upon the kinship they already had for hunting and gathering purposes. They would have had the time to maybe have a laugh or two - or drawing inside the caves! This would have had to happen after the discovery of fire. So with the discovery of fire came a more permanent type of communication. My hunch is that procreation probably really took off here too. How much better they must have looked by candlelight, lol.

 

And with communication, the more eloquent the glyphs, and with the advent of grunts and words the more verbose it became, I think that's maybe when time laid down and stretched time out like a deck of cards (or at least it seemed to, because after all we're really just talking about the awareness of Man here). But now that time has become instantaneous via all our devices, it's like the cards are stacking back up into a deck again and we're sort of returning to the origins. Or at least it feels that way to me.

Edited April 18, 2011 by manitou

[三江源]

I would have to dig to find quotes, but the Idea that life [both spiritual and physical] Evolved through a series of stages, from less complex to more and more complex is a very old Idea. Its found in early Hermetic texts, Alchemy, the Illuminism stream of Sufism which is an Islamic branch of Neo Platonism, In places in Kabbalah, and hinted at in the Greek teachings.

 

This is not to suggest that they developed the theory in a great way, or collected empirical evidence, But Hermetisism sourced, Alchemy which gave birth to science.

 

Also, Hermetisism and its various offshoots, has a long tradition of trying to undermine the Church, and bring about a separation of church and State. Thats two things that modern science has picked up and ran with... lol.

 

Darwin and I share a belief in intelligent design that is completely contrary to the Christian Idea of it. Alchemists and Hermetisists Love science, as it is a process to understand the workings of the Divine in/through the world. I would never argue with evolution on any level, outside of being open to the possibility for new discovery's.

 

Thanks Seth.

 

Got a bit involved in typing out some of Secret History :

"In the secret history the evolution of the species was not the even progress that science supposes. There were twists and turns that have important implications for the way we understand our own physiology and make up. There were dead ends,false starts and even deliberate attempts at sabotage. According to the secret doctrine animals evolved into the forms we are familiar with today, influenced by the stars and planets, lions by the constellation of Leo, for instance.. The cosmic plan was that all the world's biological forms would be gradually incorporated into humankind, which was intended to be the crown of all creation. As the gods led humanity closer to human anatomy as we now it, they assumed the part animal, part human forms remembered by the Sumerians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, unitill they assumed the forms remembered by the ancient world, the Greeks and Romans... the goddess of the planet Venus was cow headed Hathor and Mercury was dog headed Anubis on the walls of Egyptian temples. According to secret tradition, these same gods, the same living beings,were remembered by classical Greeks in later, more evolved form.......In the secret history the last creatures to incarnate before humans were the apes. they came about because some human spirits rushed into incarnation too early, before human anatomy was perfected. In the secret history , therefore, it is not right to say that humans descended from apes, rather that apes represent a degeneration of humankind. "

 

 

Fascinating book, very fun to read, really recommend it to those who havent come across it yet.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

The use of the term "monkeys" in the modern day sense does not in any way describe our origin. The fossil records show that we descended from a type of simian that I believe was four legged. When I find the link, I will post it. The book referred to in the above quote, is not science.

 

Would love to hear more!

[ralis]

Would love to hear more!

 

Here is a good start.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinius

[manitou]

Here is a good start.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinius

 

 

A lemur?

 

That's a bit on the anticlimactic side