deci belle Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) Hi manitou~ Birthing the spiritual embryo is an event within entry into the inconceivable, so there is no person or location whatsoever. I believe you have described an evolutionary breakthrough in terms of a person's understanding, which can happen at any time~ before or after selfless realization creating a body outside the body. I think it is related to living enlightenment on a level that the Buddhists say is only possible for Buddhas at death. It is death (what returns at death). The death of the person enters nonbeing and reverts to essence, penetrating the mysterious pass and assimilating to the Mysterious Female, the Valley Spirit, The Virtue of the Way. One then returns (to life) impersonal living potential. Realization is not the same as buddhahood. There is gradual maturation after all-at-once complete perfection in terms of mystical copulation. Birthing the spiritual embryo is a preliminary stage of enlightened realization. At this point it is now an embryo~ the embryo still needs to undergo the "ten months of incubation". This is a taoist term used to describe various stages in a number of systems. The only experience I have pertaining to this is exactly the same as the notion connoting "dropping off" used in Chan where the seed of buddhahood is planted. When the skin-bag is "dropped off" a point of vital essence congeals in the void. This is the spiritual embryo. It is the moment of the medicines of fire and water, yin and yang, fusing like sperm and egg. One produces a body outside the body, and the spiritual embryo forms out of nothing. At this point one begins the process of "incubation", sealing the refined elixir; protecting the achievement from damage. Not a good time to jump up and down proclaiming one's white-hot enlightenment. This is why it is said to see essence on your own, then seek a teacher to confirm and solidify one's understanding of entry into the inconceivable. All these terms are multifarious in their applications in the numerous systems of refinement, cultivation and practice. I have only concentrated in the processes described in the Northern and Southern schools of Complete Reality taoism, which is identical to Chan at the highest levels. When the spiritual embryo is complete after the period of incubation, one then knocks over the polar mountain, shatters space, empties out openness, sublimates oneself spiritually and physically and enters the tao in reality; the same as potential, able to match creation: a complete human being. Others may disagree, but this is my experience of the process which includes "birthing the spiritual embryo". +1 for Mama Experiential and empirical practice beats studying and talking theory any day. ed note: respond to manitou after all this time❤!! Edited August 22, 2012 by deci belle 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
z00se Posted August 22, 2012 Chinese traditionally when talking about qigong etc are very poetic and this leaves room for an individuals interpretation and no set one way but here in the west where we are not used to it, it's just darn confusing. Birthing a spiritual embryo is where you start to live in the now / become enlightened. When the embryo is born that means you have become enlightened and have experienced enlightenment on purpose (not accidently or from your environment). But you may have only been enlightened for a few seconds or minutes or something, then you go back to normal. Then you practice living in that state where it's the real you, not the thinking you, and the chinese say that the embryo becomes a toddler and then a teenager until it is fully grown. When it is fully grown it means you can switch in and out of an enlightened state at will. Thats my understanding of it anyhow 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted August 22, 2012 Within the Fourth Way system Gurdjieff describes scientifically the process of transformation of energy within the human body/mind system; when a person is given genuine spiritual teaching and correct instruction the fundamental sexual energy in the body is transformed into a higher vibration whereby it creates a sort of coating for what he calls the Kesjan body otherwise known as the astral body, which is a subtle body connected to our physical body at a point at the lower Dan Tien. If the astral body begins to be coated then it can be called an immortal foetus because if it is fully coated then it has the capacity to survive the death of the physical body, although he says nothing is truelly immortal as all things die in the end. This isn't anything to do with the inner child or really anything to do with enlightenment, its a spiritual process which evolves out of correct cultivation and practice. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) from TaoYoga, thought this picture might be relevant, guess we'll have to guess at the other 5 stages Edited August 22, 2012 by thelerner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fū Yue Posted August 23, 2012 So much to look forward to. Will one know when the ten month period begins? Or, is it more of a counting backwards after the "big achievement?" It is like Bhakti practice when one begins to truly become the deity she worships... without 'taking note' or even acknowledging the difference between the guru and the disciple, the unconscious-conscious purification through nurturing devotion is the 'tempering' of true faith and trust in consciousness without any discriminating qualities, expressed as a love that transcends boundaries. When it becomes a very sharp sword, it cuts through all gravity. Just as we 'actualize' truths such as emptiness or non-dual consciousness or God within our reality through one-pointed concentration on Them, so too does the impossible become possible through concentrating the will on That. The 'gathering' and the 'accomplishment', much like the universal Big Bang and inevitable Massive Dissolution, is the end of 'what was' and 'what is', yet hovering between those two great forces there is a power beyond the perception of what creates and destroys. That is the great possession, the Real Spirit. This is just my interpretation of the event. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
寒月 Hanyue Posted August 23, 2012 So many theories, so little time When I was in Beijing a good friend took me to meet a personal student of the late Master Feng Zhiqiang. They practiced with Master Feng daily and had done so for years. While talking about practice they mentioned that after practicing with Master Feng they often had the sense of 'feeling pregnant', they couldn't explain it further than that. After 3 days with Yamu and with Kempomaster giving me treatment, I was in a much better place than I had been for a long time. Later on that third day, while 'digesting' it all I was in the shower to cool off and realised that I FELT pregnant. Not simply expanded, or 'full', but pregnant! It was the oddest experience and feeling, and there is no other way to describe it. Given the lineage and Master Hu's background I know he was familar with 'spiritual embryo', and while I have no idea in which way/s the above mentioned feeling is related. Whenever someone mentions the idea now, I can at least appreciate why they may have described the process as birthing an embryo. Best, 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
寒月 Hanyue Posted August 23, 2012 Thanks for sharing your experience with the s-m post transmission, snowmonki. I find your signature of interest as well: Once the condensed sensation of the pregnancy in the belly spreads throughout the whole system...how riveting it is to behold the utterly transformative somatic unfolding... You're welcome. It is not a state I get through my own practice. Just what I experienced at that time. Quite Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marks of Glory Posted August 27, 2012 Hmmm... some interesting things came in mind.... Swami Satyananda says in some of his books that kundalini is firmly established one it reaches manipura chakra, which is in the same location as the real lower dantien (behind navel and in front of mingmen) Very interesting in deed.. the chakra that precedes is is Swadhisthana, he refers to it as ~purgatorry~ very yin like experiences,passiveness, and living lot of past karmas mentally, I found this experience veery similar to the ~yin spirit~ ddeescription.... passive, and storehouse of karmas.... Swami said also that alot of tantric buddhist traditions regard the Kundalini force as residing in Manipura region and not in mooladhara.... maybe because in the dantien is where the embryo is formed initially.... firmly estblishing spiritual development... after you reach this level... conserving energy becomes alot easyer, and the alchemical work gets very hot.... kind of the opposite problem... Any way... probrable the spiritual embryo is formes in manipura and it`s birth takes place in ~sahasrara chakra~, (it is know that when kundalini reaches there, the yoguin nver is born again. just wanted to share this info because soetimes by studying diferent traditions it becomes easear to get the real message... If you want to discover the mysteries of language, it is good to stud 33 completely diferent languages, like chinese, one eaastern (latin) and say, one native american... so that ou kind of understand the symbolic drills... the same applies to learning alchemy... it is easear to understand what the enygmatic word mean if you study diferent traditions... in hermetic alchem is is said that there is a humid and dry path... sooner or later you need to adopt the dry path.. it is very hot... guess it is when you reach manipura... you feeel graounded and energy doesn`t disperse that easily anymore (unlike the humid path, where the energ disperses ina chaotic and apourish manner) --------------------------------------------- do you think this post is interesting? useful? easy to comprehend? worthless? thank you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
