Celestial Neigong - Practices, Insights, Comments, etc.

[fiveelementtao]

Ralis, my friend... If you honestly think that with my earlier suggestions that I am bringing "guilt, fear and exclusivity to a set of teachings" Then,...

 

I am definitely the WRONG teacher for you and CNK is definitely the wrong practice for you. If what I have shared here doesn't sit well with you, then I completely support your assessment that you should go somewhere else... I admire you for sticking to your principles.

 

So, since we have determined that this is the wrong practice for you and you are no longer interested in the DVDs.. nothing personal, but I would like to get back to others' questions...

 

Just to avoid further derailing of this thread, I'm going to put you on ignored users status...

 

Thanks for understanding and best of luck to you in whatever you do.

 

Actually, what I said are honest comments in regards to what you stated. When a teacher brings guilt, fear and exclusivity to a set of teachings that should always be non-discriminatory, then I will comment.

 

 

BTW, I have considered buying your DVD's

[Shen555]

Thank you for the friendly answer Shifu Mike... I actually always wanted to be a good person and even a hero and protector of the good and defenseless, since I was just a little guy I was inspired by the likes of Superman and Son Goku and their innocence and kindness to others around them. I'm not sure if my moral code is exactly sympatico with the practice but I'm certainly hoping it is. Oh and one more question if it's okay, could you give me a rough idea of the health benefits of this practice? I know the practice extends greatly past that but I'm still curious.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

Edited May 3, 2011 by Shen555

[fiveelementtao]

All we can is our best. Nothing more is required.

 

I haven't analyzed the practice for specific health benefits. So, I would only be guessing. Some of my older students who had arthritis reported that the practice helped with pain and mobility issues. Others have reported anti-aging benefits from the practice. Others have reported physical cleansing.

 

My experience with the practice has shown me that the energy created can be used for manifesting. If someone has a particular health issue, I would recommend that as you are closing down from the practice, direct the energy created to heal or strengthen any physical, emotional issues. It is also a very good practice for aligning oneself to their life purpose.

 

So, as I said, I have not done a specific study of the benefits...

Thanks for the questions

Mike

 

Thank you for the friendly answer Shifu Mike... I actually always wanted to be a good person and even a hero and protector of the good and defenseless, since I was just a little guy I was inspired by the likes of Superman and Son Goku and their innocence and kindness to others around them. I'm not sure if my moral code is exactly sympatico with the practice but I'm certainly hoping it is. Oh and one more question if it's okay, could you give me a rough idea of the health benefits of this practice? I know the practice extends greatly past that but I'm still curious.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

[Shen555]

Thank you for your kind answers, if I have any more question's I'll be sure to ask, thank you very much Shifu Mike. I may be ordering the first DVD sometime this month, this practice has really peaked my interest, I've been searching a long time for a practice like this and all I can say is, FINALLY!

 

Warmest Regard's,

 

Shen

[Shen555]

Shifu Mike, I thought of another question, actually been wondering this from the get go but sorta drifted to the back of my mind. Can this practice be done outside, or is it an indoors thing? I ask because a lot of qigong forms are rather touchy about that sort of thing, mainly with wind and rain and such.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

[fiveelementtao]

You can do it outdoors as long as you are not chilled and there are not any strong breezes.

If in doubt... It is better to be warm than cold. If you get heated up during practice, make sure that when you close down that you put on any clothing necessary to keep from getting chilled.

Thanks for the questions,

Mike

 

Shifu Mike, I thought of another question, actually been wondering this from the get go but sorta drifted to the back of my mind. Can this practice be done outside, or is it an indoors thing? I ask because a lot of qigong forms are rather touchy about that sort of thing, mainly with wind and rain and such.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

[fiveelementtao]

Also... Do not do the practice between the hours of 1 and 3 p.m. The sun is too hot and thick at this time. The best time to do this is at night. If done in the early morning pre-dawn hours, there is a better chance to commune with ancestral teachers...

[Shen555]

Thank you Shifu Mike for the great answer, and that sounds quite fascinating about the communing with ancestral teachers.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

[Shen555]

I have a question I just thought of today. Is this practice compatible with the qigong of the martial art, Xingyiquan? I was thinking of practicing that martial art and I don't want to cross any wires.

[fiveelementtao]

Yes. CNK is complementary to all of the three major Taoist internal martial arts. i.e, Tai Chi Xing Yi and Ba Gua

 

I have a question I just thought of today. Is this practice compatible with the qigong of the martial art, Xingyiquan? I was thinking of practicing that martial art and I don't want to cross any wires.

[Shen555]

Excellent, thank you very much Shifu Mike.

[Shen555]

This is just out of curiosity but will there be a "Level III" DVD? or were your plans just for the two levels that are out now? I'm just curious to know how far in this training one will eventually be able to go via DVD.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

[fiveelementtao]

Yes, I have been considering a 3rd DVD.

 

This is just out of curiosity but will there be a "Level III" DVD? or were your plans just for the two levels that are out now? I'm just curious to know how far in this training one will eventually be able to go via DVD.

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

[Shen555]

Wow... I must say that answer took me slightly by surprise. Just how big is this system? If you don't mind my asking...

[fiveelementtao]

There is no end to Spirit. This system is only one of many. Spirit is Infinite. Any boundaries or limitations are imposed by need of the practitioner or the purpose of the immortals who transmit the teachings. My system is growing all the time... So, I do not know where it will end.

 

The question is...How big do you need YOUR system to be. Why not just start with what you have. Right now in CNK, there are 2 DVDs. for some who have worked with me and shared their experiences one DVD is enough. IME, in the first 2 DVDs there is enough material to spend a lifetime mastering. In the end, it is not about how many techniques are within a system, but how diligent and consistent the practitioner is. I teach numerous "core" practices that if someone were to only do those practices, would give them everything they need. Some of those are on the DVDs.

 

The current grandmaster of the Shang Ch'ing says that if you practice any standing posture for 45 minutes a day, you will gain everything you need.

 

So, according to him, the best system has only one practice...

 

Wow... I must say that answer took me slightly by surprise. Just how big is this system? If you don't mind my asking...

[Shen555]

Seems the highest levels truly are the simplest, I'll do what I can as far as learning is concerned. So far I'm working on the free meditation you put up on your site. Don't have as much money as I thought I would this month but perhaps next month I can acquire the first DVD to advance that training. Thank you for your very informative answer Shifu Mike, I appreciate it.

[fiveelementtao]

Just how big is this system? If you don't mind my asking...

To answer your question more concretely... I am in the process of synthesizing what would traditionally be understood as a complete tradition. Most energy practices taught today were originally parts of larger spiritual disciplines...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4paWLbxgMM

[cihan]

Dear 5ET,

 

I've been attracted to practicing especially 2 meditations from your Celestial Neigong CDs for about 3 months now,

 

- Energy Gathering form turned out to be a very nice long meditation, I feel a lot of energy and emanating light from my fists when doing it . Visions started to come about a month ago ,I felt a pair of large wings at my upper back and literally saw 2 javelins made of bright blue light in my hands resting against the ground.I was like a giant butterfly guardian of some sort guarding or watching over something in the standing position. No other standing meditation switched my mode of consciousness after a such a short practicing span, this form became a powerful tool for me to step into shamanism.

 

- Is it OK to do the sky & earth meditation in standing pose and then sit and continue to meditate? Although I sit correct, when I do it standing the energy comes and feels much more "clean" and "friendly". I cannot do more than 6 rounds because of the amount of energy, but I feel very good with what comes during this meditation.

 

Just wanted to share my experiences, and thank you for your guidance

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

 

Cihan

[fiveelementtao]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Cihan,

Energy Gathering is derived from the warrior shaman arts so it makes sense that you would experience feeling like a spiritual protector while doing the exercise. It is a very powerful way to strengthen the aura and cleanse a space. It will dynamically charge the aura and heighten your vibration. Your description of your visual experiences is very beautiful and inspiring.

 

It is perfectly OK to do the Heaven Earth Qigong while standing. I sometimes will do it standing starting facing North and then I will move clockwise after each repetition until I have faced all eight directions and am facing North again. In other words, I start the first repetition facing North, then move to the Northeast and do a round, then to the East etc.. until I have come around to the North again and then do one last rep facing North for a total of 9.

I support you in only doing as many repetitions as you are comfortable with. No point in overdoing anything.

 

For clarification...The Heaven Earth Qigong meditation is opening up and purifying the body in nine stages starting with the feet and ending with the head. The first three rounds clear the legs, the second three clear the torso and the last three clear the head up to the crown. It is not necessary to know that or visualize that, but that is what is happening. So, if you are only comfortable with 6 rounds, then that means that your body wants to clear out the legs and torso and is not quite ready to energize the head. That is OK. No need to overdo it or rush anything... Regardless of how many reps you do always close with the Earth Breath meditation to ground the energies.

 

Thanks again,

Mike

 

Dear 5ET,

 

I've been attracted to practicing especially 2 meditations from your Celestial Neigong CDs for about 3 months now,

 

- Energy Gathering form turned out to be a very nice long meditation, I feel a lot of energy and emanating light from my fists when doing it . Visions started to come about a month ago ,I felt a pair of large wings at my upper back and literally saw 2 javelins made of bright blue light in my hands resting against the ground.I was like a giant butterfly guardian of some sort guarding or watching over something in the standing position. No other standing meditation switched my mode of consciousness after a such a short practicing span, this form became a powerful tool for me to step into shamanism.

 

- Is it OK to do the sky & earth meditation in standing pose and then sit and continue to meditate? Although I sit correct, when I do it standing the energy comes and feels much more "clean" and "friendly". I cannot do more than 6 rounds because of the amount of energy, but I feel very good with what comes during this meditation.

 

Just wanted to share my experiences, and thank you for your guidance

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

 

Cihan

[ralis]

To answer your question more concretely... I am in the process of synthesizing what would traditionally be understood as a complete tradition. Most energy practices taught today were originally parts of larger spiritual disciplines...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4paWLbxgMM

 

I agree. I remember Idris Shah saying the same thing many years ago.

[cihan]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Cihan,

Energy Gathering is derived from the warrior shaman arts so it makes sense that you would experience feeling like a spiritual protector while doing the exercise. It is a very powerful way to strengthen the aura and cleanse a space. It will dynamically charge the aura and heighten your vibration. Your description of your visual experiences is very beautiful and inspiring.

 

It is perfectly OK to do the Heaven Earth Qigong while standing. I sometimes will do it standing starting facing North and then I will move clockwise after each repetition until I have faced all eight directions and am facing North again. In other words, I start the first repetition facing North, then move to the Northeast and do a round, then to the East etc.. until I have come around to the North again and then do one last rep facing North for a total of 9.

I support you in only doing as many repetitions as you are comfortable with. No point in overdoing anything.

 

For clarification...The Heaven Earth Qigong meditation is opening up and purifying the body in nine stages starting with the feet and ending with the head. The first three rounds clear the legs, the second three clear the torso and the last three clear the head up to the crown. It is not necessary to know that or visualize that, but that is what is happening. So, if you are only comfortable with 6 rounds, then that means that your body wants to clear out the legs and torso and is not quite ready to energize the head. That is OK. No need to overdo it or rush anything... Regardless of how many reps you do always close with the Earth Breath meditation to ground the energies.

 

Thanks again,

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mike,

 

 

Thank you very much for the clarification and extra info on Heaven and Earth Qigong.

 

I was raised in a culture where all spiritual rituals other than the religion you are born into were forbidden and considered a very serious sin, so I was not comfortable with the idea of cleansing & opening up by any of the rituals I came across the internet and as well as the one what you are teaching in your Teutonic Shamanism site , and tried a few "journeys" without a prior ritual, and got bitten by a snake in my last journey and my left leg got swollen & looked like a delicious sausage for a week afterwards Well, I got my warning and lesson, and stopped journeying for a while, until -and if- everything returns to normal back again.

 

Will try to do the "journeying "again after I become to be able to do Heaven & Earth for 9 times with comfort and the energy gathering exercise (confirmed now to be a good tool for cleansing and charging up) and acquire my "Javelins" to be used in the journey if necessary.

 

Do you think these two exercises can at least help protect me from a more serious calamity without a "proper" ritual ? I am very blind on this subject and threading the hard and long path with no visuals, figuring out only after an experience

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much again for your support,

 

Cihan

[fiveelementtao]

Hi Cihan,

I will share with you my opinion based on my experiences. Someone else may have a different opinion based on their experience.

 

IME, There is a lot of confusion out there regarding "Shamanism." Modern neo-shamanism is seen mainly as "journeying" as well as ingesting of "Power Plants." (You, Cihan did not mention using power plants, so I am not referring to you personally, but it is an important subject.) In reality Shamanism is much, much more than these two things. For instance, Taoist energy work is shamanic in nature. Any religion or spiritual practice that results in direct experience of spirit or power is shamanic in nature. A true shaman is someone who acts as a conduit between the spiritual and the physical world. There are many ways to do this. Journeys can be dangerous without proper training and ritual. IMO, Power plants should never be ingested unless prescribed and supervised by a master shaman who comes from a culture and tradition of using power plants. (most traditions have moved beyond using intoxicants.) In fact, if power plants are misused, they will have the opposite effect of deadening the senses and weakening the nervous system, not to mention the very real possibility of insanity and addiction. Traditionally, power plants are only used when a master shaman has determined that it is necessary to open someone's aura. After the initial use, power plants are rarely if ever used again. Many times, the shaman will not allow someone to use plants at all because they can foresee it is too dangerous. There is a reason why most taoist masters and yogic masters do not use power plants at all. This is because it is in fact unnecessary. Higher level internal alchemy opens up the energy centers much more efficiently than external intoxicants. Vedic Yoga masters originally used a concoction of power plant extracts they called soma. But now they have realized that the true soma is secreted by the pituitary gland after years of internal alchemy.

as I have on my website here. http://www.thunderwizard.com/page40/page42/alchemy.html

 

A traditional shaman is a priest, healer, counselor, energy worker and psychiatrist. So, Thank you for sharing your experiences with journeying. Traditionally journeys should not be undertaken without first gaining help from spirit guides and protectors. And journeys should not be undertaken without a clear objective. Many people nowadays view shamanic journeying as a form of entertainment and as you have learned, true journeying is serious stuff and should not be attempted without proper training and a clear objective.

 

If you are serious about journeying, I recommend three things: 1) Find your spiritual guides and protectors FIRST through ritual and prayer. 2) Only journey when you have a clear objective as to the reason why you are journeying (either to heal someone or gain knowledge to share with others for their spiritual well being.)and 3) get some live training in journeying from a practicing shaman.

 

I myself only undertake journeys when I need special information from deities or spirit helpers or to help with healing or spiritual cleansings or to solve a problem. Outside of that, I do not journey...I want to respect the power of the journey... If you can, I would suggest training in person with a practicing shaman who can teach you how to journey properly and without injury. training in person with a shaman also allows for initiation into their lineage which will give you the power and protection of their lineage masters. This is another aspect to traditional shamanism that has been forgotten by modern neo shamanism.

 

 

In terms of a proper ritual. That is possible. I do teach some rituals in Teutonic Shamanism online that can be helpful in gaining protection and guidance.

 

If you believe you have been called to shamanic service through journeying, seek out a teacher. If you are not sure, there are still many facets of shamanism that can be safely practiced without undertaking journeys.

 

That is my opinion. I hope it helps. Thanks for the questions,

Mike

 

 

 

 

Dear Mike,

 

 

Thank you very much for the clarification and extra info on Heaven and Earth Qigong.

 

I was raised in a culture where all spiritual rituals other than the religion you are born into were forbidden and considered a very serious sin, so I was not comfortable with the idea of cleansing & opening up by any of the rituals I came across the internet and as well as the one what you are teaching in your Teutonic Shamanism site , and tried a few "journeys" without a prior ritual, and got bitten by a snake in my last journey and my left leg got swollen & looked like a delicious sausage for a week afterwards Well, I got my warning and lesson, and stopped journeying for a while, until -and if- everything returns to normal back again.

 

Will try to do the "journeying "again after I become to be able to do Heaven & Earth for 9 times with comfort and the energy gathering exercise (confirmed now to be a good tool for cleansing and charging up) and acquire my "Javelins" to be used in the journey if necessary.

 

Do you think these two exercises can at least help protect me from a more serious calamity without a "proper" ritual ? I am very blind on this subject and threading the hard and long path with no visuals, figuring out only after an experience

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much again for your support,

 

Cihan

Edited June 2, 2011 by fiveelementtao

[cihan]

Hi Cihan,

I will share with you my opinion based on my experiences. Someone else may have a different opinion based on their experience.

 

IME, There is a lot of confusion out there regarding "Shamanism." Modern neo-shamanism is seen mainly as "journeying" as well as ingesting of "Power Plants." (You, Cihan did not mention using power plants, so I am not referring to you personally, but it is an important subject.) In reality Shamanism is much, much more than these two things. For instance, Taoist energy work is shamanic in nature. Any religion or spiritual practice that results in direct experience of spirit or power is shamanic in nature. A true shaman is someone who acts as a conduit between the spiritual and the physical world. There are many ways to do this. Journeys can be dangerous without proper training and ritual. IMO, Power plants should never be ingested unless prescribed and supervised by a master shaman who comes from a culture and tradition of using power plants. (most traditions have moved beyond using intoxicants.) In fact, if power plants are misused, they will have the opposite effect of deadening the senses and weakening the nervous system, not to mention the very real possibility of insanity and addiction. Traditionally, power plants are only used when a master shaman has determined that it is necessary to open someone's aura. After the initial use, power plants are rarely if ever used again. Many times, the shaman will not allow someone to use plants at all because they can foresee it is too dangerous. There is a reason why most taoist masters and yogic masters do not use power plants at all. This is because it is in fact unnecessary. Higher level internal alchemy opens up the energy centers much more efficiently than external intoxicants. Vedic Yoga masters originally used a concoction of power plant extracts they called soma. But now they have realized that the true soma is secreted by the pituitary gland after years of internal alchemy.

as I have on my website here. http://www.thunderwi...42/alchemy.html

 

A traditional shaman is a priest, healer, counselor, energy worker and psychiatrist. So, Thank you for sharing your experiences with journeying. Traditionally journeys should not be undertaken without first gaining help from spirit guides and protectors. And journeys should not be undertaken without a clear objective. Many people nowadays view shamanic journeying as a form of entertainment and as you have learned, true journeying is serious stuff and should not be attempted without proper training and a clear objective.

 

If you are serious about journeying, I recommend three things: 1) Find your spiritual guides and protectors FIRST through ritual and prayer. 2) Only journey when you have a clear objective as to the reason why you are journeying (either to heal someone or gain knowledge to share with others for their spiritual well being.)and 3) get some live training in journeying from a practicing shaman.

 

I myself only undertake journeys when I need special information from deities or spirit helpers or to help with healing or spiritual cleansings or to solve a problem. Outside of that, I do not journey...I want to respect the power of the journey... If you can, I would suggest training in person with a practicing shaman who can teach you how to journey properly and without injury. training in person with a shaman also allows for initiation into their lineage which will give you the power and protection of their lineage masters. This is another aspect to traditional shamanism that has been forgotten by modern neo shamanism.

 

 

In terms of a proper ritual. That is possible. I do teach some rituals in Teutonic Shamanism online that can be helpful in gaining protection and guidance.

 

If you believe you have been called to shamanic service through journeying, seek out a teacher. If you are not sure, there are still many facets of shamanism that can be safely practiced without undertaking journeys.

 

That is my opinion. I hope it helps. Thanks for the questions,

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mike,

 

 

Than you for your insight, opinions and additional info.

 

I never used any kind of power plant, and am very respectful to the traditional way and the spirit world. When visions started to come , I just wanted to experience this new world of manifestation, like a new born trying to figure out this new wonderful dimension appearing automatically after a certain time of Qigong practice.

 

I am still very blind and probably not worthy/needing extra spiritual help or task. I don't have a strong motive for being a shaman. But it feels wonderful to live through all levels of manifestation available to my current configuration, and I cannot help not living it and feeling joy.

 

Will keep in mind all your very valuable information and opinion and go on exploring with the help of these, trying not to offend any beings, teachings or traditions.

 

Thanks again,

 

Cihan

[Shen555]

A curious question about this particular style, a lot of Qigong styles say not to eat within 30 minutes to an hour of practicing a Qigong form... Does your Celestial Nei Kung have a similar requirement?

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Shen

Edited June 3, 2011 by Shen555

[fiveelementtao]

Hi Cian,

Yes, As I said, I'm aware you weren't referring to using power plants, but it was a good opportunity to explore traditional shamanism. Thanks for your clarification...

I wasn't trying to dissuade you from journeying. But rather trying to encourage you to make a deeper commitment by seeking out instruction from a live teacher.

I don't know where you live but perhaps you could seek out instruction from practicing shamans who focus on journeying. Michael Harner's group focuses on this. Perhaps they could help you

http://www.shamanism.org/workshops/index.php

 

Connecting with others in person I find is very encouraging whereas being a solitary seeker can be sometimes discouraging...

In any case, good luck with your practices. Keep it up and let us know about your progress. you can also join the thunderwizard discussion group.

Blessings,

Mike

 

Dear Mike,

 

 

Than you for your insight, opinions and additional info.

 

I never used any kind of power plant, and am very respectful to the traditional way and the spirit world. When visions started to come , I just wanted to experience this new world of manifestation, like a new born trying to figure out this new wonderful dimension appearing automatically after a certain time of Qigong practice.

 

I am still very blind and probably not worthy/needing extra spiritual help or task. I don't have a strong motive for being a shaman. But it feels wonderful to live through all levels of manifestation available to my current configuration, and I cannot help not living it and feeling joy.

 

Will keep in mind all your very valuable information and opinion and go on exploring with the help of these, trying not to offend any beings, teachings or traditions.

 

Thanks again,

 

Cihan