are we going in the right direction? please read and comment.

[mewtwo]

I dont really know what to write but i wana hit a couple of things.

 

First things first to me it seems like thetaobums has changed in that some of the older memebers no longer post here and some members dont have compassion for fellow netizens. Do you guys feel this way?

 

If you do feel the same way what can we do to have more compassion?

 

I guess i will leave it there and start another thread for my other topic

[Dagon]

Edited April 23, 2011 by Dagon

[Marblehead]

Well, based on when I joined this forum, I think that we have made great steps forward toward being more tolerant toward the opinions, beliefs and understandings of others.

 

Sure, the subject matter being discussed has changed with the changing of some older members leaving and new members joining but that is only natural because we each have those subjects that we are interested in discussing.

 

I think we are doing just fine.

[ejr1069]

I dont really know what to write but i wana hit a couple of things.

 

First things first to me it seems like thetaobums has changed in that some of the older memebers no longer post here and some members dont have compassion for fellow netizens. Do you guys feel this way?

 

If you do feel the same way what can we do to have more compassion?

 

I guess i will leave it there and start another thread for my other topic

 

Are you asking what each individual can do to be more compassionate in their daily lives or how to keep the posts in this forum more compassionate? I have a few initial thoughts on this.

 

1. I like dragons suggestion of metta

2. I don't wish to control other board members, but I can certainly work on myself and trying to keep in my awareness compassion as I post.

3. Possibly a board OP could post a MUST READ sticky about compassion? Something along the lines of: "Please think before you post. Would you say the content of your post to your best friend? Your mother? Your child? If not, possibly you should consider rephrasing or not posting that thought". Maybe the board ops have already posted a similar thought and people have simply failed to read?

4. Does the forum have an "ignore poster" feature that prevents you from seeing posts from people on your ignore list? I have seen that feature "keep the peace" on a couple of sites.

 

I personally like the free exchange and dialogue on this site. I tend to dislike forums that are heavily moderated. So stressing personal accountability for each forum member to post compassionately would be my answer. It starts with you and me. If we set the example, others will follow suit. Kindness usually wins over meanness. If I return a mean act from another with a kind act consistantly, the person that is acting mean will eventually recognize me as a kind person and stop. Be the change you wish to see brother...

 

PS...I really like your thought of compassion. Thank you for posting.

[zerostao]

Well, based on when I joined this forum, I think that we have made great steps forward toward being more tolerant toward the opinions, beliefs and understandings of others.

 

Sure, the subject matter being discussed has changed with the changing of some older members leaving and new members joining but that is only natural because we each have those subjects that we are interested in discussing.

 

I think we are doing just fine.

change is inevetable change is good otherwise stagnation would set in.

great to hear from Marblehead and his insight on this question.

@mewtwo, i have observed you receive alot of great advice on this forumn in the time i have been here. how is the qigong coming along?

[mewtwo]

Its going good.

 

The reason i started this thread was cause of some of the comments i have gotten in the past did not seem the nicest, like for instance some members think i am obsesed with siddhis and such and when i posted a thread about master zhou i got a responce back that i felt was not with compassion.

Edited April 23, 2011 by mewtwo

[ShaktiMama]

Its going good.

 

The reason i started this thread was cause of some of the comments i have gotten in the past did not seem the nicest, like for instance some members think i am obsesed with siddhis and such and when i posted a thread about master zhou i got a responce back that i felt was not with compassion.

 

 

If being able to demonstrate compassion and metta is a requirement to join the TBs, what a small, boring place this would be.

 

Now, I think it is more of a requirement to learn about compassion and metta when you come to the TBs, in what a huge, complex and sometimes difficult place this can be.

 

This is a learning place not the destination.

 

peace,

s

Edited April 23, 2011 by ShaktiMama

[markern]

 

 

This is a learning place not the destination.

 

peace,

s

 

Nice!

[ralis]

The most interesting, intelligent and controversial participants have been banned temporarily or permanently. With that action by the moderators, that has created a lack of interest by some that remain. There seems to be a move to create a more sanitized discussion forum that is more spiritually correct. Very boring to say the least!

 

These punitive actions have been a result of a few "valued members" complaints. I have yet to have an answer as to who the valued members are.

Edited April 23, 2011 by ralis

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well first off, every forum I've been a member of has had threads like this. Older members looking back at "the good old days", and saying nowadays don't hold a candle to them.

 

Then you've got to consider the fact that you yourself might have grown and changed. I remember there was this lecturer that I had listened to once, and I thought this guy was so sharp and insightful. I spent the next year reading, living, practicing, talking to people about a whole number of topics, and when I went back to hear this guy's lecture, it was the most shallow and pedantic thing I had ever heard!

 

There are times when you may need to hang around the forums, and there are times when you may need to go do something else.

 

But I will say that I can thing of a couple colorful characters that aren't around anymore, and a few threads that probably wouldn't last too long these days.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Its going good.

 

The reason i started this thread was cause of some of the comments i have gotten in the past did not seem the nicest, like for instance some members think i am obsesed with siddhis and such and when i posted a thread about master zhou i got a responce back that i felt was not with compassion.

 

 

Now, there you go again with the siddhis!

 

Well, I think it's a pretty lively place, and I certainly have compassion for all, including those I disagree with. Vajrahridaya (currently waiting out an insult ban) and I have gone round on this forum forever, and it's gotten pretty spirited. I disagree with the way he touts the superiority of his own Buddhist way and puts down all other paths as lesser. I don't accept that behavior, so we go back and forth with it. But I can tell you, that I respect his dedication, enthusiasm and depth of knowledge. And if he ever needed my help, I would be right there for him. But you can't tell that from some of our rancorous discussions.

 

This is a kind of rollicking spiritual forum, one where we had a heated, many page discussion on 'Dependent Origination', for chrissakes. I showed it to a friend of mine, and she was amazed at the level of passion and debate for an esoteric topic.

 

But, even with some of the more inflammatory discussions, I feel that we all care about each other. Go to the healing circle and see the compassion for each other. But it doesn't mean that our discussions about siddhis, or evolution, or D.O., should be reigned in. We have the mods and insult policy for that.

 

 

Shakti Mama, sexy new avatar! Wa-whoom, can feel the shakti!

[Otis]

"Please think before you post. Would you say the content of your post to your best friend? Your mother? Your child?

Hee hee. Honestly, I would repeat the content of all my posts to my (hypothetical) child, but not to my best friend or mother. Not because I see anything inflammatory or offensive in what I write, but talking about radical beliefs has that effect, anyway.

 

That's what's so cool here: the room to be honest about what we believe. Talk about the nature of existence with someone who is clinging on to their beliefs, and their reaction is usually hostility. Here there's room to say exactly what I mean, as long as I'm not being cruel about it. I do my best not to project onto others, or even to call anyone wrong (unless they project onto me), but I have no wish to be shy about saying what I think makes sense.

[Eric23]

I've been around here for a while now. My observation is that TTB's is a constantly evolving community. If you don't like the subject matter of the posts you've been reading lately or think things are getting boring, stick around, it will change.

 

While I liked the back and forth banter of the un-moderated days, it could get very ugly.

 

At first, being a part of this community was so educational. I was learning new things every day, finding new practices to try etc. Now that I'm pretty settled on my practice, a lot of the discussion seems to repeat itself. I can relate to the "Oh God, not another post about ejaculation" sentiment. A lot of that has to do with my personal place of being at a point where I need to just do my practice, not read about it or talk about it, just do it consistently. However TTB's remains a wellspring of information.

 

These days, the most rewarding part of participating in this community is developing on-line friendships.

[Apech]

The most interesting, intelligent and controversial participants have been banned temporarily or permanently. With that action by the moderators, that has created a lack of interest by some that remain. There seems to be a move to create a more sanitized discussion forum that is more spiritually correct. Very boring to say the least!

 

These punitive actions have been a result of a few "valued members" complaints. I have yet to have an answer as to who the valued members are.

 

No one at all has been banned or suspended for being interesting, intelligent or controversial. Everyone (except spammers) who has been banned or suspended either insulted another user or was trolling/multi-posting to hijack a thread/topic.

 

All members are valued as far as I am concerned - if a post is reported we look at it the same way whoever reported it.

 

Just to be clear - passionate and emotive language and debate is not a problem. At all. Its not the discussion of ideas that is a problem its when that breaks down into personal attacks at the person you disagree with. If you start swearing at them or calling them an idiot because they hold a different idea then that is a problem. As I see it the 'no insult' policy protects freedom of speech.

[manitou]

I just love this place. I'm honored to be here.

 

This brings up a really interesting subject:

 

HIDING BEHIND AVATARS

 

That's what makes this such an interesting community. With only an avatar as a face, or nothing at all, it seems to break down much gentility when these harsh words are said 'anonymously' by an avatar on a board.

 

I think that discussion groups such as this one are an excellent measure for how much inner cultivation a person has really achieved. Character is what you do when no one is watching.

[Otis]

My ideal for a discussion group is that we all see the discussion as practice.

 

We're not here to save each other, or to convince someone else that they're doing it wrong. We're here to grow. Not to abuse, not to be right, not to "win", but to grow. It's not a video game, and there's no points. But it's life, so it is important.

 

Every time I state my opinion, it's an opportunity to make sure that what I think makes as much sense as possible. If what I'm saying doesn't make sense, then it only serves me to see that, or to have it pointed out.

 

If I'm just trying to assert my truth as the real truth, then I don't grow at all. I just pump my ego up. But if I offer what I have to share, and am (honestly, clearly, specifically, compassionately) critiqued, then there's a great opportunity for growth. Assuming I'm willing to listen.

 

I don't want to coddle other people's egos, nor do I want mine coddled. I'm not interested in trying to reinforce anyone's delusions, nor do I want mine reinforced. I want to cut away everything that is not necessary, and spend my practice in the essential. I look around the Bums, and see a great group of intelligent, wise, experienced and kind fellow travelers. Can this be our mutual dojo for practicing making sense? Can we keep each other honest, not by being mean or superior or dismissive, but by being fearlessly clear? Can we assist in each other's growth, without falling into either extreme of being against - or just trying to please - each other?

Edited April 24, 2011 by Otis

[Apech]

 

 

I don't want to coddle other people's egos, nor do I want mine coddled. I'm not interested in trying to reinforce anyone's delusions, nor do I want mine reinforced. I want to cut away everything that is not necessary, and spend my practice in the essential. I look around the Bums, and see a great group of intelligent, wise, experienced and kind fellow travelers. Can this be our mutual dojo for practicing making sense? Can we keep each other honest, not by being mean or superior or dismissive, but by being fearlessly clear? Can we assist in each other's growth, without falling into either extreme of being against - or just trying to please - each other?

 

THIS!!!!

[Marblehead]

I just love this place. I'm honored to be here.

 

This brings up a really interesting subject:

 

HIDING BEHIND AVATARS

 

That's what makes this such an interesting community. With only an avatar as a face, or nothing at all, it seems to break down much gentility when these harsh words are said 'anonymously' by an avatar on a board.

 

I think that discussion groups such as this one are an excellent measure for how much inner cultivation a person has really achieved. Character is what you do when no one is watching.

 

Excellent point. I have no avatar to hide behind. Except when joking around I have always expressed myself as openly and honestly as I possibly can. And to the best of my recall I have never failed to answer any personal question of me while I have been a member here.

 

I won't say that my responses have always been pleasant but I have always tried to make them honest.

 

And I do understand that not everyone here likes me. Well, that's life. In my 'real' world not everyone likes me. Oh well.

[ejr1069]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Otis, on 24 April 2011 - 04:26 AM, said:

 

I don't want to coddle other people's egos, nor do I want mine coddled. I'm not interested in trying to reinforce anyone's delusions, nor do I want mine reinforced. I want to cut away everything that is not necessary, and spend my practice in the essential. I look around the Bums, and see a great group of intelligent, wise, experienced and kind fellow travelers. Can this be our mutual dojo for practicing making sense? Can we keep each other honest, not by being mean or superior or dismissive, but by being fearlessly clear? Can we assist in each other's growth, without falling into either extreme of being against - or just trying to please - each other?

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

"Fearlessly clear" sounds a lot like insenstive to me. Kind of like the "bull in the China shop" approach. I don't know if that is what the OP was trying to relay, but that is what I take from it. I agree that we all need to keep each other honest. We should not be afraid to speak our truths. We should all be truthful and a s factual as possible in our commincations. But delivery is everything. With a little thought, kindness, and compassion, even the worst of news can be delivered in a way that it will be well received.

Edited April 24, 2011 by ejr1069

[doc benway]

I dont really know what to write but i wana hit a couple of things.

 

First things first to me it seems like thetaobums has changed in that some of the older memebers no longer post here and some members dont have compassion for fellow netizens. Do you guys feel this way?

 

If you do feel the same way what can we do to have more compassion?

 

I guess i will leave it there and start another thread for my other topic

Ever since I've been a member, I've been surprised at the relatively few number of members who seem genuinely compassionate and loving. There are a few and they generally drift away. Many people are looking for something for themselves and don't seem too concerned with much else. This is not a new phenomenon. If those of us with room in our heart for love and compassion are patient and continue to participate, it may change. And if it doesn't, we can come and go as we please.

[thelerner]

In the years I've been on it the direction and mood of the Bums cycle. There are times its deep and interesting, I've learned quite a bit here, others times argumentative and shallow.

 

To some extent its our responsibility to keep it relevant and create a community that shares, argues, and respects. Don't like whats going on, start some new quality threads.

 

 

Michael

[manitou]

In the years I've been on it the direction and mood of the Bums cycle. There are times its deep and interesting, I've learned quite a bit here, others times argumentative and shallow.

 

To some extent its our responsibility to keep it relevant and create a community that shares, argues, and respects. Don't like whats going on, start some new quality threads.

 

 

Michael

 

 

I think all of us Bums have given immeasurable help to the others. As to the mood of the forum, things take their rise and fall, as the Dao says. I would like to try and ride the ox long term with this forum, if I can. There are times I've walked away from it over the past few years. But I always return. It is You that help me define Who I Am. We are all fellow travelers, and those who still have ego problems will always be argumentative and rude. It merely tells us a little something about each other, that's all. We are all reaching upward, and personally, I think I am in very good company with you guys. The challenge is to love one another even when the egoists get a little rude. Finding the uncarved wood, the genuine human, will always involve love.

 

Your second paragraph, about it being our responsibility, is right on. I would love it if some of the lurkers would come out of the woodwork too.

Edited April 24, 2011 by manitou

[Aaron]

Hello Mewtwo,

 

I know I'm not an "old timer", I've only been around for a little over a year, but I believe what's occurring is beneficial to the community. As Apech has already said, no one is being banned for being controversial, but rather because they are insulting other members or purposefully attempting to cause discord with the community. I feel that the current trend towards more civil discussions will not only result in more compassion between members, but also much deeper discussions regarding the topics. Nothing sidetracks a discussion like personal insults directed at other members.

 

Aaron

Edited April 25, 2011 by Twinner

[Otis]

"Fearlessly clear" sounds a lot like insenstive to me. Kind of like the "bull in the China shop" approach. I don't know if that is what the OP was trying to relay, but that is what I take from it. I agree that we all need to keep each other honest. We should not be afraid to speak our truths. We should all be truthful and a s factual as possible in our commincations. But delivery is everything. With a little thought, kindness, and compassion, even the worst of news can be delivered in a way that it will be well received.

I agree with you completely. In no way did I mean to imply that "fearlessness" meant "without awareness".

 

Fearlessness just means that I speak my understanding as clearly as possible, without need to be socially "correct". That doesn't mean not to act with love.

 

To me, love says: "don't project on others. Don't pretend that I can know what others cannot. Don't tell other people that they are wrong, that they are lesser, who they are, what they need, or what their practice means. Never work from a mental simulacrum of the other person, because it will always be false, always just a reflection of my own wishes and fears. Respond only to what they wrote, not what I imagine their heads were really thinking. These are my safeguards when posting, and I try to keep to them.

 

But love does not tell me not to be insistent. Or not to share unpopular opinions. Or that someone else can't handle the "truth". Only fear tells me these things. So I insist to myself only to be as honest as possible, not as well-received as possible. Hopefully, the longer I practice being honest with others, the better I will get at expressing myself in a way that does not cause upset.

[zerostao]

Now, there you go again with the siddhis!

 

Well, I think it's a pretty lively place, and I certainly have compassion for all, including those I disagree with. Vajrahridaya (currently waiting out an insult ban) and I have gone round on this forum forever, and it's gotten pretty spirited. I disagree with the way he touts the superiority of his own Buddhist way and puts down all other paths as lesser. I don't accept that behavior, so we go back and forth with it. But I can tell you, that I respect his dedication, enthusiasm and depth of knowledge. And if he ever needed my help, I would be right there for him. But you can't tell that from some of our rancorous discussions.

 

This is a kind of rollicking spiritual forum, one where we had a heated, many page discussion on 'Dependent Origination', for chrissakes. I showed it to a friend of mine, and she was amazed at the level of passion and debate for an esoteric topic.

 

But, even with some of the more inflammatory discussions, I feel that we all care about each other. Go to the healing circle and see the compassion for each other. But it doesn't mean that our discussions about siddhis, or evolution, or D.O., should be reigned in. We have the mods and insult policy for that.

 

 

Shakti Mama, sexy new avatar! Wa-whoom, can feel the shakti!

i was wondering where Vajahridaya had gone?! wow, i can't imagine him directly insulting anyone. i didnt post on Dependent Origination thread(i wonder what type of mischeivous genius could even start such a thread like that? ) . i did view it many times and yes , it was lively and passionate. imo the mods do a great job here.

like my friend taiji tim said (lazy cloud) iron sharpens iron, and i sometimes enjoy " get down and nitty gritty exchange of views and ideas". i enjoy just as much being on the receiving end of the sharpness as sending of it. i also feel we all care about each other and in this comradery that we share we have the privilege to learn from each other.

songs, sorry about capitization, punctuations (lack of) sadly to say, i even edited this.

Edited April 25, 2011 by zerostao