Suppression and Repression of Sexuality

[balance.]

Hello Balance,

 

Very well said. I agree with everything you've said, except for perhaps the last part. I don't feel that giving up sex is necessary at the highest levels. As I tried to express (and you have) sexuality is not abnormal, or a curse, but rather a natural part of our being. Sexuality is very much a part of our original nature, denying it denies our original nature. When one says it must be given up, I tend to think of original sin, that we were not born perfect and thus must sacrifice to gain that perfection. In my mind we are very much perfect the way we are, sex and all.

 

Aaron

 

 

Aaron:

 

 

Allow me to better articulate myself here.....

 

..... It's not sex itself that I see as being something that must be given up at very high levels, but rather the lust and desire that are associated with an attachment to material and sensual pleasure... And that is the "demon" that I was referring to in my first paragraph... That lingering attachment to some of the more attractive baubles within samsara that persist despite commendable spiritual/energetic progress.

 

For my own part, I see sex at those high levels, divorced from the baser motivating/characterizing emotions of lust and desire as something that while enacted through physical means, finds full expression in terms of the union of energy and spirit. Sex for me now, even though I may make use of energetic means to prolong the act and attempt to amplify the pleasure of my lover is still very much grounded in raw physicality.. But I think as we progress, the lines between the material and the immaterial must blur, and we must actively embrace the intangible in order to move closer to the Mystery... Till then, I think we're given free reign to make use of the training-wheels that help us progress while easing that eventual transition into a place where there can be no aides.. That is my conceptual understanding for the necessity of letting go of the very known/knowable things to us like desire and lust and sensual pleasure.... the familiar becomes a handhold and an anchor that makes it easier to maintain our death grip on the material... If there's nothing for us to hold onto, that decision to let go and take our hands off the steering wheel is made easier.

 

....I'm really just speculating on much of this endgame material based on what I think I've come to know, so take it all with a grain of salt... I've many many years ahead of me to allow for conceptual understanding to give way to experiential understanding.. Until then, this sort of speculation is nothing but an interesting diversion from practice....... But what I do know is that these sorts of "dramatic" changes/shifts will occur naturally and without force.

 

 

 

 

 

balance.

[Aaron]

Why are you so attached to being unattached to sexuality? That in and of itself is a problem!

 

Ralis,

 

You're trying to reason with someone who believes you are the one that is unreasonable. Rarely does this work out the way we want it to.

 

Aaron

Edited April 27, 2011 by Twinner

[Aaron]

Aaron:

 

 

Allow me to better articulate myself here.....

 

..... It's not sex itself that I see as being something that must be given up at very high levels, but rather the lust and desire that are associated with an attachment to material and sensual pleasure... And that is the "demon" that I was referring to in my first paragraph... That lingering attachment to some of the more attractive baubles within samsara that persist despite commendable spiritual/energetic progress.

 

For my own part, I see sex at those high levels, divorced from the baser motivating/characterizing emotions of lust and desire as something that while enacted through physical means, finds full expression in terms of the union of energy and spirit. Sex for me now, even though I may make use of energetic means to prolong the act and attempt to amplify the pleasure of my lover is still very much grounded in raw physicality.. But I think as we progress, the lines between the material and the immaterial must blur, and we must actively embrace the intangible in order to move closer to the Mystery... Till then, I think we're given free reign to make use of the training-wheels that help us progress while easing that eventual transition into a place where there can be no aides.. That is my conceptual understanding for the necessity of letting go of the very known/knowable things to us like desire and lust and sensual pleasure.... the familiar becomes a handhold and an anchor that makes it easier to maintain our death grip on the material... If there's nothing for us to hold onto, that decision to let go and take our hands off the steering wheel is made easier.

 

....I'm really just speculating on much of this endgame material based on what I think I've come to know, so take it all with a grain of salt... I've many many years ahead of me to allow for conceptual understanding to give way to experiential understanding.. Until then, this sort of speculation is nothing but an interesting diversion from practice....... But what I do know is that these sorts of "dramatic" changes/shifts will occur naturally and without force.

 

 

 

 

 

balance.

 

Hello Balance,

 

I believe myself to be aware, enlightened, whatever you might call it. Most Buddhist say I haven't reached full enlightenment, whatever that is. My point is that I believe I'm somewhat aware and I still see lust as being a natural byproduct of sex. I think the general consensus of most puritan religions is that lust is somehow bad, but I believe, if you apply what you've said to the idea of lust not being emotional, so much as a natural compulsion, then you can still reach enlightenment and feel that compulsion and understand it for what it is. Remember lust is what compels us to procreate, love is what propels us to deepen our emotional relationships. In order to form a lasting relationship with a significant other, both need to be present. Hence the master can still have a wife, love his wife and find his wife attractive, while still understanding the nature of the universe.

 

As an aside, you are a wonderful writer by the way. I really admire your style. Your original post on this thread was quite well expressed.

 

Aaron

Edited April 27, 2011 by Twinner

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[bodyoflight]

Just because you aren't repressing doesn't mean you are allowing.

 

Why are you always going to such radical extremes? "Oh you don't think sex is bad? Why do you think fuckin' around is okay??? Why do you just cave in to your animal desires????!!!!!!"

 

It is just a ridiculous and nonsensical jump!

 

sex by itself is not bad.. it is a tool a function..

 

however it is the mental and psychic addictions to sex which are extremely evil and obstructive..

 

it is just like food.. you eat food to survive yet lots of people are addicted to food..

[ralis]

sex by itself is not bad.. it is a tool a function..

 

however it is the mental and psychic addictions to sex which are extremely evil and obstructive..

 

it is just like food.. you eat food to survive yet lots of people are addicted to food..

 

You are sounding more like a religious fundamentalist.

[Sloppy Zhang]

however it is the mental and psychic addictions to sex which are extremely evil and obstructive..

 

it is just like food.. you eat food to survive yet lots of people are addicted to food..

 

Just like food, then, you can partake in sex and not be addicted.

 

You can be against the repression of sex, without telling someone they can be addicted.

 

And just because you have sex doesn't mean you are addicted.

 

I don't seem to recall anybody in any recent thread advocate sex addiction. Yet your behavior in some of the threads lately tends to indicate your belief that any sex is bad, because you can't separate the evil psychic energies from it (you mentioned that when you have sex with a woman, you can't NOT transfer energy, so you'd be getting all of her negative vibes), and that further, your belief that anyone who takes the stance that sex is not inherently bad is taking the stance that one should indulge in their lesser desires without restraint.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[ralis]

For only 47.00! Results in minutes.

 

 

 

 

http://www.taketheaction.com/

Edited April 27, 2011 by ralis

[Immortal4life]

I dunno about you guys, but my weekend was awesome

 

Did someone mention aliens on this thread?

 

Just get out there and be confident, you might surprise yourself

Edited April 27, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Seth Ananda]

My thoughts:

 

1. Great Thread

 

2. Mass psychology of fascism is up there with the most Important books ever written, and its basic ideas should be taught in primary school, then explored in detail in high school.

 

3. we have a culture where it is easier to bring up things like a Catholic priest's abuse publicly, than say some eastern cultures. I personally believe that there is just as much child abuse in eastern Monastic traditions as in ours, but we have less chance to hear about it.

I had one Tibetan ex Lama tell me with relish how much 'boy love' was going on in the Gelugpa sect where he trained, and that when caught, it was covered up quickly and quietly by the superiors, much like the Catholic church.

I am also friends with an amazing woman who does government work in the sexual trauma field, with children in India and Nepal. She has told me some pretty shocking stories about kids from Tibetan monastery's.

 

4. In terms of cultivation, as I asked in my old Body armouring thread: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/16653-ejaculation-body-armouring-retention/page__p__229709__fromsearch__1entry229709

I often wonder how necessary retention is in the absence of strong body armouring.

Since that thread I have learned more from my friend about his Tahitian Shaman teacher, and the things he learned. His teacher told him that when you are 'open' ejaculation is an offering of heart Love/energy to your partner, and that because you are 'open' the energy from the universe rushes in replacing the energy that leaves, but in even greater amounts.

 

That to me sounds like what sexuality is supposed to be like, when we are free of nasty Ideology's that fill us with fear, and self loathing of our natural functions.

 

He said it always shows in the eyes. A Master is always energised, his eyes deep, loving and feeling, his body soft and relaxed, with pleasure easily flowing. The rest have eyes that are 'flat' and un-energised, or mirror like - reflecting the outside, allowing no real communication between the inner and outer. He said when he looked in his teachers eyes, and many of eyes of the Tahitian practitioners, It was like looking into a deep, loving but dizzyingly vast universe.

He also said that after doing further travels through the eastern traditions, that he went back to Tahiti as none of the great Eastern teachers he met [quite a few] had eyes that really contained the universe, or body's free of unnatural distortions.

 

These Ideas certainly fit my experience of sexuality and cultivation.

When my body and Heart are really really 'open' [vibrating in a sea of love and bliss] then ejaculation never feel like it drains me but actually gives me energy.

 

I still think its possible that retention practices are for people who have a lot of Body Armouring, and developed within cultures that themselves engender strong body armouring.

 

5. I just do not think that a population of people who have shed the religious anti material plane repression, and all the hocus pocus fears that go along with them, Can be swayed by Hitler or Bush.

 

When we free our body of the armouring that permeates it, a simple orgasmic pleasure begins to rise that free's us from the need to search for any outside stimulation. Our body is its own source of Incredible enjoyment and the more we can enter into its reality the better things get.

Sharing this pleasure with others sexually is just the Icing on the cake

[宁]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Seth Ananda.

 

Taking into account all that has been discussed here, i believe that

- there are stages in the meditation practice where the cultivator needs to be celibate.

- there should exist dual cultivation methods that are able to increase rather than decrease vitality.

- managing your sexual urges and desires should be as natural as managing your emotional expression and your mental faculties - the same should apply to sexual energy..

- i believe in being able to be open or close, in conformity to your will

 

-i believe that some degree of tension is still needed, just the way we need polarity for the exchange to occur.

[Aaron]

Hello Seth,

 

You began to touch on another topic I've been thinking about that we really haven't addressed. The social suppression and repression of sexuality. This, in my opinion, is the root of personal suppression and repression of sexuality, because it is from society that we learn to view sex in an unhealthy way.

 

I've talked about this before on other forums and it's a rather touchy subject for many, but I feel it's an important topic. The reason why many religions consider sex or aspects of sex sinful, is simply because it allows them to control the actions of their adherents. In some instances there may be other reasons, for instance Buddha most likely had sexual encounters at a very early age that may have distorted his views about sex, which may have caused him to perceive it as harmful or distracting later on. In Christianity the strict rules regarding sex are holdouts from the Old Testament that were most likely instituted to ensure that the Jews did not become extinct through inter-culture breeding, but continued to be a viable culture.

 

Again, sex and religion, except in rare cases, don't seem to go hand in hand, in fact it's more like one hand slapping the other. Why can't sex and religion exist in harmony? Why does one have to be sinful? Well I think the answer is simply that, as Seth stated earlier, sex can be one of the most enjoyable experiences we have. It is absolutely free and when done in a healthy and natural way, helps to strengthen us spiritually, emotionally, and physically. In essence one of the deepest spiritual experiences we can have is sexual. The various sexual traditions that formed in the east seemed to recognize this, but even they weren't entirely able to divorce the sex and religion taboo. In fact Tantric Buddhism is considered by many to be the reason for the decline of Buddhism in India, the people were not able to accept the implications of sex and religion.

 

This is an interesting point though. After living for literally thousands of years under sexual repression, can we as a society actually come to understand sex as it was originally intended? Can we understand how sex has altered our natural social evolution and caused us to become something else?

 

If one doubts that our natural social evolution has changed, then one only needs to look at the concept of monogamy. Many sociologists and psychologists agree that most men are not capable of being in a sustained monogamous relationship. This institution, in fact, seems contrary to the natural behaviors of a man. Men (and women to a lesser degree), by nature, are not meant to spend their lives with one person, but rather it seems, to procreate with as many people as possible. Now one may think that this doesn't make sense, but from a Darwinian and evolutionary standpoint, it makes absolute sense because those people who have the strongest genetic material will tend to mate the most, increasing the genetic strength of the species as a whole. In fact it's very likely that in the prehistoric past we did not practice monogamy at all, but rather dominant males had several mates.

 

So what was the purpose of monogamy? Well simply put, it ensured that all males were able to find a mate. But even more than that, it helped to transform a migratory hunter gatherer society into an agriculture based culture, by eliminating one of the key social constructs of that early society. In order to ensure that the change was lasting, taboos were placed on the act of sex, in particular certain acts that seemed harmful to society. The most common taboo of course is adultery.

 

Now as modern men in a modern age, we read this and say, how preposterous. We are a monogamous creature. We are meant to find one mate and stay with that mate forever, haven't you heard of true love? Well my answer is simply this, if true love existed and was meant to be experienced by every person, then why are their so many divorces and failed relationships? The fact of the matter is, the Western world is breaking down the sexual taboos of old and slowly but surely our original nature is showing. The idea of monogamy and true love are simply our explanations for why monogamy should work and also to help sell cards during Valentine's Day.

 

Anyways I went a bit too in depth I'm sure, but I think I've made my point. Sexuality in it's natural state is a beautiful thing. When we are allowed to practice it without guilt or repression, then what we find is that we are more in tune with who we are, more centered. However when we repress it, then harmful things can arise.

 

I hope that I didn't go too far off topic. Peace be with you.

 

Aaron

Edited April 27, 2011 by Twinner

[Aaron]

This was a mispost...

 

Aaron

Edited April 27, 2011 by Twinner

[Enishi]

This thought just came to me:

 

What are the options for someone who doesn't want to repress their sexual energy, doesn't want to indulge in the cycle of porn, fantasy and addiction, but also wants to avoid actual sex and relationships due to the danger of heartbreak or getting screwed over (alimony, false rape accusations, cheating, etc)?

Edited April 27, 2011 by Enishi

[ralis]

My thoughts:

 

1. Great Thread

 

2. Mass psychology of fascism is up there with the most Important books ever written, and its basic ideas should be taught in primary school, then explored in detail in high school.

 

3. we have a culture where it is easier to bring up things like a Catholic priest's abuse publicly, than say some eastern cultures. I personally believe that there is just as much child abuse in eastern Monastic traditions as in ours, but we have less chance to hear about it.

I had one Tibetan ex Lama tell me with relish how much 'boy love' was going on in the Gelugpa sect where he trained, and that when caught, it was covered up quickly and quietly by the superiors, much like the Catholic church.

I am also friends with an amazing woman who does government work in the sexual trauma field, with children in India and Nepal. She has told me some pretty shocking stories about kids from Tibetan monastery's.

 

4. In terms of cultivation, as I asked in my old Body armouring thread: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/16653-ejaculation-body-armouring-retention/page__p__229709__fromsearch__1entry229709

I often wonder how necessary retention is in the absence of strong body armouring.

Since that thread I have learned more from my friend about his Tahitian Shaman teacher, and the things he learned. His teacher told him that when you are 'open' ejaculation is an offering of heart Love/energy to your partner, and that because you are 'open' the energy from the universe rushes in replacing the energy that leaves, but in even greater amounts.

 

That to me sounds like what sexuality is supposed to be like, when we are free of nasty Ideology's that fill us with fear, and self loathing of our natural functions.

 

He said it always shows in the eyes. A Master is always energised, his eyes deep, loving and feeling, his body soft and relaxed, with pleasure easily flowing. The rest have eyes that are 'flat' and un-energised, or mirror like - reflecting the outside, allowing no real communication between the inner and outer. He said when he looked in his teachers eyes, and many of eyes of the Tahitian practitioners, It was like looking into a deep, loving but dizzyingly vast universe.

He also said that after doing further travels through the eastern traditions, that he went back to Tahiti as none of the great Eastern teachers he met [quite a few] had eyes that really contained the universe, or body's free of unnatural distortions.

 

These Ideas certainly fit my experience of sexuality and cultivation.

When my body and Heart are really really 'open' [vibrating in a sea of love and bliss] then ejaculation never feel like it drains me but actually gives me energy.

 

I still think its possible that retention practices are for people who have a lot of Body Armouring, and developed within cultures that themselves engender strong body armouring.

 

5. I just do not think that a population of people who have shed the religious anti material plane repression, and all the hocus pocus fears that go along with them, Can be swayed by Hitler or Bush.

 

When we free our body of the armouring that permeates it, a simple orgasmic pleasure begins to rise that free's us from the need to search for any outside stimulation. Our body is its own source of Incredible enjoyment and the more we can enter into its reality the better things get.

Sharing this pleasure with others sexually is just the Icing on the cake

 

 

Body armoring as a result of child abuse, poor parenting and religious conditioning as discussed by Dr. Wilhelm Reich, can and will lead to fascism. Goose stepping SS troops were making a statement about their own sexual repression as a condition since childhood. Goose stepping is an expression of a rigidly armored pelvis that lacks freedom of movement and unconditioned sexual expression.

 

Part of the Third Reich's cultural war was a perfect Aryan race which is selective breeding and only the missionary position was allowed. Further, Hitler had anyone showing homosexual tendencies put in concentration camps. This kind of behavior is indicative of severe armoring and intolerance brought on by the points I made in the first paragraph. Obviously, anyone not fitting rigid standards (Jews, intellectuals, gypsies et al) as put forth by Hitler was subject to extermination.

 

Examples can be seen in the Chinese Red Army, Korean army et al which are goose steppers.

 

In addition to Reich's 'Mass Psychology of Fascism' Alice Millers books are an excellent study of intolerant, abusive and rigid child rearing practices.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Body-Never-Lies-Lingering-Parenting/dp/0393328635/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303918273&sr=8-1

 

 

 

BTW, I have attempted to deal with my own armoring by taking the Feldenkrais training and 14 Rolfing sessions. This year I will most likely take in a few more Rolfing sessions.

[ralis]

This thought just came to me:

 

What are the options for someone who doesn't want to repress their sexual energy, doesn't want to indulge in the cycle of porn, fantasy and addiction, but also wants to avoid actual sex and relationships due to the danger of heartbreak or getting screwed over (alimony, false rape accusations, cheating, etc)?

 

I believe Rolfing can be of great value in addressing armoring and lack of emotional coherence. That way, one has more choices than just blind automatic conditioning.

[joeblast]

This thought just came to me:

 

What are the options for someone who doesn't want to repress their sexual energy, doesn't want to indulge in the cycle of porn, fantasy and addiction, but also wants to avoid actual sex and relationships due to the danger of heartbreak or getting screwed over (alimony, false rape accusations, cheating, etc)?

In that case, nature will take care of itself, when it needs to, if it feels the need. So long as there arent other underlying issues that could arise, of course...

[Mandrake]

I believe Rolfing can be of great value in addressing armoring and lack of emotional coherence. That way, one has more choices than just blind automatic conditioning.

 

What is your experience of people doing Rolfing viz. permanent release of emotions, mental patterns?

I've been interested in going through a series of treatment since I heard about it the first time. How sensitive are the results to the quality of the therapist?

 

 

Mandrake

 

PS. Have you heard about IMT?

http://www.centerimt.com/Introduction.asp

PS.

[gendao]

Body armoring as a result of child abuse, poor parenting and religious conditioning as discussed by Dr. Wilhelm Reich, can and will lead to fascism. Goose stepping SS troops were making a statement about their own sexual repression as a condition since childhood. Goose stepping is an expression of a rigidly armored pelvis that lacks freedom of movement and unconditioned sexual expression.

I agree with your overall point about Reichian armoring - but goose-stepping is not really an example of this. It was just a military tactic that later fell out of favor with the advent of long range firearms.

 

The tendency to invoke Godwin's Law as a debating tactic in the post-British Empire is more simply a demonstration of post-WWII Allied messaging than anything else.

In English-speaking countries World War II propaganda has indelibly associated the goose step with fascism. There, and sometimes elsewhere in the West, it is invoked as a reference to Nazism, fascism or militarism in general.

Fact is, there are still plenty of countries today whose militaries employ goose-stepping - yet are neither fascist nor necessarily sexually-repressed. So, to connect all 3 together is a totally Americancentric construction.

 

Similar to how Americans all immediately interpret swastikas as Nazi - when they were already used widely and looonngggg before that.

Anyhow, how much would you estimate that Rolfing has thus far released your armoring (%-wise)?

[Mandrake]

I think Twinner brings up a really important point with regards to the popular conception of the enlightened personality.... That of enlightenment bringing with it an absence of human emotion and feeling. I'll see if I can dig up the quote properly here (I believe it's within Huai-Chin Nans "Tao and Longevity"), but the thrust of the quote involves the authors observation that many enlightened and high level practitioners still have a "demon" within them... The "demon" being sexual lust/desire. e that we owe it to ourselves to do so-- to be able to act harmoniously in all that we do... is that not wu-wei?

 

Please do dig it up. I have the book and can't remember such a passage.

 

 

Mandrake

[ralis]

I agree with your overall point about Reichian armoring - but goose-stepping is not really an example of this. It was just a military tactic that later fell out of favor with the advent of long range firearms.

 

The tendency to invoke Godwin's Law as a debating tactic in the post-British Empire is more simply a demonstration of post-WWII Allied messaging than anything else.

Fact is, there are still plenty of countries today whose militaries employ goose-stepping - yet are neither fascist nor necessarily sexually-repressed. So, to connect all 3 together is a totally Americancentric construction.

 

Similar to how Americans all immediately interpret swastikas as Nazi - when they were already used widely and looonngggg before that.

Anyhow, how much would you estimate that Rolfing has thus far released your armoring (%-wise)?

 

 

Obviously, you know very little about body armoring. I would suggest you examine the military mindset and then you will understand what is being discussed here. Militarism involves strict adherence to orders and uniformity. Rigid posture and a rigid pelvis are just two examples of how armoring is expressed. Moreover, the military mindset is not one of feeling and compassion but of state sanctioned murder!

 

I spent five years in the U.S. military during Viet Nam. I happen to know what I am talking about.

 

Further, it is entirely relevant to bring into discussion historical accounts of mass psychosis and the results of horrific acts of violence. If we all fail to be reminded of the past, then we will invariably repeat it.

 

In general, anyone studying history, is knowledgeable as to the origins of the swastika and that Hitler used it as a unifying symbol along with the eagle.

 

If you care to read the relevant literature on this subject, then maybe you can bring a more informed point of view to this discussion.

 

Here is a good analysis of body armoring as discussed in terms of Nazi soldiers psyche.

 

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=L1EgfrEa9UsC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=body+armoring+and+goose+stepping&source=bl&ots=itXgLkc49j&sig=-8ZDD9d2xhnqXyl4PRSwLvYiSLw&hl=en&ei=43G4TZ8u09WIAvffpDs&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEAQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

http://www.amazon.com/MALE-FANTASIES-Floods-Bodies-History/dp/0816614490 Authored by Klaus Theweleit

Edited April 27, 2011 by ralis

[gendao]

Obviously, you know very little about body armoring. I would suggest you examine the military mindset and then you will understand what is being discussed here. Militarism involves strict adherence to orders and uniformity. Rigid posture and a rigid pelvis are just two examples of how armoring is expressed. Moreover, the military mindset is not one of feeling and compassion but of state sanctioned murder!

 

I spent five years in the U.S. military during Viet Nam. I happen to know what I am talking about.

Right, I can see how militantism (which obediance-trains people to blindly obey authority like robots) could lead to fascism... That's the main reason I never joined the military - I knew I could never become a robot to that degree and don't personally trust government authority enough.

 

But militantism does not require goose-stepping. Nor does it necessarily repress sexuality. I mean, many hookers rely upon US military bases for their livelihood..

 

And if anything, I'd think high-stepping requires some added flexibility in your hamstrings, not more tightening. You have to do similar high kick drills in Shaolin gongfu. Ballet and gymnastics also employ a lot of similar extreme movements.

I don't think any of these lead to fascism, though. Such associations are highly contextual.

 

Although, I also agree that the rigid, unnatural postures generally enforced are ergonomically incorrect.

[ralis]

Right, I can see how militantism (which obediance-trains people to blindly obey authority like robots) could lead to fascism... That's the main reason I never joined the military - I knew I could never become a robot to that degree and don't personally trust government authority enough.

 

But militantism does not require goose-stepping. Nor does it necessarily repress sexuality. I mean, many hookers rely upon US military bases for their livelihood..

 

And if anything, I'd think high-stepping requires some added flexibility in your hamstrings, not more tightening. You have to do similar high kick drills in Shaolin gongfu. Ballet and gymnastics also employ a lot of similar extreme movements.

I don't think any of these lead to fascism, though. Such associations are highly contextual.

 

Although, I also agree that the rigid, unnatural postures generally enforced are ergonomically incorrect.

 

 

Your argument has no basis in fact. I backed up mine with references which are by respected individuals. Repressed individuals can still have sex and do all the time. The problem is body armoring and what that leads to. These individuals have conscious or unconscious emotional issues around deep emotional feelings. The inability to express these feelings can and will lead to abuse of others. That is what is called a projection.

 

Dr. Wilhelm Reich MD., Klaus Theweleit et al which I know you will never bother to read, have deep understandings of this type of psychopathology.

 

Do you have the curiosity to study some of the works I have referenced or will you continue to sidetrack this thread with unfounded beliefs.

 

Your photo of the dancer makes no sense in this context.

Edited April 27, 2011 by ralis

[ralis]

What is your experience of people doing Rolfing viz. permanent release of emotions, mental patterns?

I've been interested in going through a series of treatment since I heard about it the first time. How sensitive are the results to the quality of the therapist?

 

 

Mandrake

 

PS. Have you heard about IMT?

http://www.centerimt.com/Introduction.asp

PS.

 

I am uncertain if Rolfing is permanent or not. Several years after I was Rolfed, a friend of mine was giving me a massage. When she pushed on my rib cage, she looked at me and asked me if I had been Rolfed. She said my rib cage felt like a babies rib cage.

 

I believe that process has helped me dispense with many belief systems that were weighing me down. This type of therapy really does validate the body mind connection and how psychological issues can be dealt with by working on the body.

 

I would also like to add that I started doing yoga around 1965 and was able to do full lotus fairly well. That helped keep my pelvis open. An ex girlfriend commented how she liked the way my hips freely move when I am walking, and in other ways.

Edited April 27, 2011 by ralis

[Seth Ananda]

Great thread still

 

So many points i want to address, so little time. lol

 

I guess Ill make some points about body/character armouring.

 

I think it almost impossible to be in the military and not have rigid body armouring, and as Ralis pointed out, the mind set, the endless repetitive drills, the walking without pelvis movement in a stiff 'erect' posture are literally designed to engender deep body armouring.

I am not saying that it was necessarily deliberately thought out as an army training method, just that it is somehow Intuitively understood by people with a rigid militaristic mindset. Force them into the mold of a 'Hard' man.

 

Part of what Body armouring does is reduce ones ability to feel a particular range of emotions, based on the region of the armouring in the body.

 

For instance when people harden up their pelvic region, engendering reduced movement and feeling through things like - Years of sexual repression, hours at a time of goose stepping, Riverdance, army marches that force the body, and general fear of having genitals , then the result is a person who has a hard/harder time empathising with the feelings of others, who finds it difficult to really relax into an utterly pleasurable sexual [not goal orientated] pool of Orgasmicness.

 

That is the essential part. If Military men were capable of becoming totally soft and feeling, allowing the most Incredible flow of pleasure and love between them and their partner - which is a deeply feeling state - They could not easily go out and kill when ordered.

Also they would not be prone to obey life denying/threatning orders.

If you feel deeply, you can not easily just turn off empathy and love.

 

It is much easier to just Inhibit the sexual function all together, train men to just 'fuck' women, not expand into the cosmos with them, to equate their genitals with their weapon, and give them a sense of pride in their ability kill other humans.

 

I think Feldenkrais can be good to help move consciousness back into a limited range of movement. Tantric therapy's are my personal favourite, and use pleasure rather that pain for greater effect, and anything that increases the pleasure conductivity of your body.

Pleasure is the ultimate melter of body armour, which is why militaristic society's are a bit suspicious of it in general, and usually have a series of pleasure taboo's.

 

I tend to think that you should have a good therapist available also, as their can be some nasty psychological surprises waiting behind body armour.

 

Pleasurable Blessings!