Tantra, Cultivating sexual energy

[thoth-]

Hello,

 

I came to this board looking for a good answer/guideline on starting the practise of cultivating the sexual energy by becoming a multiorgasmic man who has orgasms without ejaculation and channels the sexual energy up the spine. Most people seem to recommend Mantak Chia's books on this subject, however other people have told me that this method of practise is dangerous and can cause harm.

 

Since this is a taoism board and since tantra is a big part of that (isnt it?), I was wondering if I could get some guidelines or recommendations on this subject. What I'm looking for specifically is a way that teaches me to harvest my sexual energy (orgasm without ejaculation), in a safe and secure manner and which also nourishes my energetic body, vital organs etc. a safe and sound way that does not force the energy up places where it is not yet ready to go.

 

Btw if it helps to know: I am student of the hermetic/qaballistic philosophy, there are various books and guidelines on 'raising the kundalini energy' within this 'doctrine'. however, this is not what I am looking for. I am looking for a taoist/tantric solution that cultivates the energy without forcing it (cultivate it by retaining the energy during orgasm and then balancing it out by f.e the microcosmic orbit) :-)

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Trunk]

'Healing Love' dangers.

[宁]

I've been on this board for quite some time, and i didn't 'meet' anyone that can do what you are trying to accomplish.

Here's my 2 cents: take into consideration only those that succeeded, period.

They will teach you how they succeeded.

The ones that failed, will teach you how they failed - interesting nonetheless, but less practical.

[Sloppy Zhang]

To me, the best path to success is to consider it holistically- Taoist sexual practices are just one portion of the energy practices, just one portion of the physical practices, just one portion of the mental practices, etc, which are ALL part of the overall practice of cultivation.

 

This applies to Mantak Chia's material as well.

 

If you ONLY want to be a multi-orgasmic man, you will probably experience less success, and most likely a lot of physical unhealth.

 

I don't know exactly what you practice, but in my experience a lot of what you listed does not look at the body that much. And even if they DO, even the best at the physical stuff, borrow a lot from other systems, and even then, don't always borrow it completely. Sexual practices aren't just working a part of the physical body, they are working a very sensitive, delicate, and powerful part of the physical and energetic body.

 

This is PHYSICAL stuff. It has energy, but is physical. You must learn and be very familiar with your physical body.

 

So now that I've bored you with all the front loaded information, here's what I'd suggest-

 

If you're dead set on Chia's material, get all of Chia's material (and also look at Michael Winn's material). Inner Smile, microcosmic orbit, the foundation. Lean how the body and energy work by default, BEFORE you start running sexual energy. Taoist practices have developed a lot of knowledge about the physical body, a lot more than most other area's I've looked at- use it.

 

Read the site Trunk linked, learn what is on it. Be familiar with all of the stuff it's talking about, as in, working knowledge.

 

As you branch out in material, I suggest B.K. Frantzis' "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body". It teaches you about the important points of your physical and energetic bodies, and how to work with them.

 

Before you start on sex stuff, take stock of what's in your body to begin with, and learn what a healthy body is supposed to do. Be at a point where you can feel and circulate energy in your body smoothly (this in and of itself is an accomplishment). If you don't, in the best case nothing will happen, and in the worst case, you'll be damaging your body and won't know until it's too late because you won't know how to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong. You MUST be open, you MUST be healthy, you MUST know how to deal with problems with your baseline physical body BEFORE you start adding stress (sexual energy).

 

 

If it feels like I'm telling you a lot, I am

 

If it feels like I'm telling you everything EXCEPT sex, I kinda am too

 

Sex work is a subcategory of a much bigger set, to ignore the bigger set is to ignore what makes sex work actually do something in the first place.

 

And keep in mind that this is risky business even if you're doing it right. If ever there was a category where doing nothing is better than trying and failing, this would be that category. Because messin' up this stuff can lead to very bad things that are very hard, if even possible in the first place, to recover from.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Non]

Hmm.. I need to def. check out Dr. Lin's stuff.

 

Reuniting.org has some good info too on "karezza/neotantra".

[thoth-]

You're talking sexual yoga, right? In order to keep from ejaculating semen during sex, to save jing right?

That is exactly what I am looking for.

however, I searched for Jolan Chang's books and it does not seem that he teaches any good methods on this (besides the million dollar point technique which causes harm).

 

 

'Healing Love' dangers.

 

Yeah, thats exactly what I'm talking about.

 

so, is it okay if I take all the advice from that book and rest the energy at my navel instead of my head?

 

 

Before you start on sex stuff, take stock of what's in your body to begin with, and learn what a healthy body is supposed to do. Be at a point where you can feel and circulate energy in your body smoothly (this in and of itself is an accomplishment). If you don't, in the best case nothing will happen, and in the worst case, you'll be damaging your body and won't know until it's too late because you won't know how to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong. You MUST be open, you MUST be healthy, you MUST know how to deal with problems with your baseline physical body BEFORE you start adding stress (sexual energy).

I have quite some experience with meditations such as the microcosmic orbit, pranayama and israel regardie's Middle Pillar excersise, so yes..I can feel and circulate energy in my body smoothly.

 

 

I'm sorry, I am not a native english speaker so maybe I have come across wrong, so I will repeat:

What I am looking for is guidelines or books on sexual alchemy/sexual yoga/tantra/cultivating sexual energy whatever you wish to call it. methods that are safe and sound, which allow me to have multiple orgasms without ejaculation (retaining the semen) and which then circulate the sexual energy in a safe way so that it is not forced up any channels it does not want to go. Michael Winn and Mantak Chia's book 'Taoist Secrets of Love: Cultivating Male Sexual Energy' teaches this, but apparantely the methods in this book are not completely safe. hence, i'm looking for methods that ARE :-)

[effilang]

thoth,

 

If you sit down and mediate on your lower dan tien while being celibate and breathing naturally the sexual energy will convert and flow where it needs to flow on it's own. You will get better control of your sexual organs and in time with a lot of perseverance you will stop the flow of semen.

 

I have heard that some people can achieve this under two years.

What is your actual goal here? To fuck your girl/boyfriend all night long or spiritual cultivation?

 

Spiritual cultivation requires a lot of detachment at first. Think of yourself like a jigsaw. You have to scramble yourself and then put yourself back together.

 

Meditation helps you break down everything, this phase requires detachment. Then once you reach a certain level your whole being will come together again, but with new programming. Then you can attach to the world again, but with the refined notion of impermanence which will cradle a conscious foundation of detachment.

 

So during the first stage, either you're gonna fuck or you're not gonna fuck, chose one of the two.

After that fuck all you want.

Edited April 25, 2011 by effilang

[thoth-]

thoth,

 

If you sit down and mediate on your lower dan tien while being celibate and breathing naturally the sexual energy will convert and flow where it needs to flow on it's own. You will get better control of your sexual organs and in time with a lot of perseverance you will stop the flow of semen.

 

I have heard that some people can achieve this under two years.

What is your actual go here? To fuck your girl/boyfriend all night long or spiritual cultivation?

 

Spiritual cultivation requires a lot of detachment at first. Think of yourself like a jigsaw. You have to scramble yourself and then put yourself back together.

 

Meditation helps you break down everything, this phase requires detachment. Then once you reach a certain level your whole being will come together again, but with new programming.

 

So during the first stage, either you're gonna fuck or you're not gonna fuck, chose one of the two.

After that fuck all you want.

effilang,

 

the road to spiritual enlightenment is a long road indeed. my goal is to simply get the sexual urges under control (while still being able to please my girlfriend to the fullest;-)) and move on from there.

 

I do know that excersises such as the microcosmic orbit move the sexual energy. if I am without my girlfriend for some month f.e I simply do this and feel no urge to 'release'. However, as you guessed I am looking for a way to still conserve my energy while obviously fullfilling my duty as a lover.

 

using this sexual energy to unleash kundalini, gain siddhi's or spiritual enlightenment is not my prime purpose at the time being, I'm just looking for a way that fits into my life at this moment (one that cultivates the energy and promotes better vigor, health, whilist not focussing too much on the 'reaching enlightenment' aspect. Obviously since I do practise meditations such as the middle pillar the upsurge of kundalini may bring about such results, however it is not my prime purpose at this time)

 

In your opinion, would mantak chia's techniques be good for this purpose if I focus the energy on my navel area (and thus avoid stalling it in my head) ?

 

edit: actualy this part of http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/HLIntro.htm explains my goals quite well:

Don't obsess on long term retention. Pay much more attention to balance and harmony. (That'll get you there faster, anyhow.) Really, all these lofty goals: semen retention indefinitely, enlightenment, immortality... On their own they can be counter-productive, but if you focus on balance and harmony you make progress towards them more quickly, with more stability, and with much less wear and tear.

Edited April 25, 2011 by thoth-

[Sloppy Zhang]

Cruisin' that youtube....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZogOjKdV7Y

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D6HneSScyo&feature=relmfu

[bodyoflight]

thoth,

 

If you sit down and mediate on your lower dan tien while being celibate and breathing naturally the sexual energy will convert and flow where it needs to flow on it's own. You will get better control of your sexual organs and in time with a lot of perseverance you will stop the flow of semen.

 

I have heard that some people can achieve this under two years.

What is your actual goal here? To fuck your girl/boyfriend all night long or spiritual cultivation?

 

Spiritual cultivation requires a lot of detachment at first. Think of yourself like a jigsaw. You have to scramble yourself and then put yourself back together.

 

Meditation helps you break down everything, this phase requires detachment. Then once you reach a certain level your whole being will come together again, but with new programming. Then you can attach to the world again, but with the refined notion of impermanence which will cradle a conscious foundation of detachment.

 

So during the first stage, either you're gonna fuck or you're not gonna fuck, chose one of the two.

After that fuck all you want.

 

YES YES YES !!!

 

But too many human/animal egos refuse to heed the truth!

 

They want their cake and eat it at the same time!

[寒月 Hanyue]

I am looking for a taoist/tantric solution that cultivates the energy without forcing it (cultivate it by retaining the energy during orgasm and then balancing it out by f.e the microcosmic orbit) :-)

 

Chia is all yang. Not my thing.

 

Don't be too concerned with intentional orbit practices, the idea that this is a must is a series misnomer and simply not true. It can easily lead you to a very reductionist point of view where you try to work only with the genitals and then circulate sexual energy around this little circle passing through the brain. I mean come on! what about the rest of the body and all the other channels!! Take a wholistic approach.

 

Not 'how to' guides, but plenty of guidelines and a much more natural approach to tantra (made FAR more sense to me than Chia ever did);

 

http://www.amazon.com/Tantric-Quest-Encounter-Absolute-Love/dp/0892816201/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1303804269&sr=1-1

 

http://www.amazon.com/Desire-Tantric-Awakening-Daniel-Odier/dp/0892818581/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

 

A practical (but still more natural) guide dealing with sexual energy, sexual energetic relationship, energetic boundaries and much more;

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=lover+within&x=0&y=0

 

Don't be put off by the cover and hockey title

 

I mentioned the book previously in another thread and several on this board ended up getting a copy and giving their opinions. It deals with much more than sexual energy, but frames it as it should be in relationship, that said the sexual energy exercises are far more pragmatic and realistic than anything I've seen by Chia.

 

Hope this helps,

[ronko]

If the main element you want to achieve is multiple inner orgasm's

then i can whole heartedly recommend a number of ways i have personaly had success with.

 

I had no luck with any of the sexual , tantric books until i came to the realization

that you need to awaken the prostate ,

once you do this you will be on a journey you never thought possible

for a male.

 

The major point is no force at all , never force anything , give in ,

the one word that sums up becoming multi orgasmic , surrender,

you begin to look at sex from a very yin perspective , you begin to see how the female rises and falls in orgasmic cycles , cycles of bliss that can last untill you cant take it anymore.

 

Never make your mission orgasm , rather ,

swim in the waves of bliss and mind shattering orgasms will find you when they are ready.

Remember , orgasm happens before ejaculation , once you begin to feel orgasm with out coming so to speak

you begin to identify the seperate process , it may be very subtle at first , but with practise this can easily be achieved.

 

How to awaken the prostate?

1. Aneros , read the forum there and you will be amazed at what some of the guys are acheiving,

lots of them become energetically aware without even knowing anything about chi , taoism ect,

and alot become very spiritual after encounters with these little toys as they realise

there is so much going on that the male human has forgotten.

Because you have to totally surrender you end up letting alot of blocked energy out too ,

it is very healing for the energy and emotional body's as well as the physical.

 

and remember , the toy is just like stablisers on a bike , once you awaken and re-wire you can just tune in to your prostate and have an orgasm , no hands , no penis , just tuning in .

 

2. jack johnsons site , ksmo ,the key sound practise , this is a vocal technique that alot of people have great success with.

 

3. just try to tune in to your prostate , this may take some time if you arent too familiar ,

try pc excersies to get a idea and feeling of that whole area .

 

Also a point which may sound strange but you dont touch your penis whilst doing any of this !

 

I hope this helps ,

 

light n love

ronko

[walkerinthewoods]

Mantak Chia's methods are safe as long as you study and practice all of what he teaches, with the exception of the million dollar point finger lock. Even he says this is not really helpful and mostly for historical reference. Winn no longer even teaches it and suggests against it. Don't bother with it.

 

Anyway, most people get into trouble with Chia's practice because they don't follow what Chia teaches. They obsess about not ejaculating and strive to never ejaculate. This not what Chia teaches! Depending on your age, health and experience you should still ejaculate, just not every time.

 

As long as you pay attention to what Chia teaches and especially if you are following a practice to balance your overall energy you should be fine with Chia's teachings.

[宁]

Here, M Chia says that retention happens naturally to a man, IF AND ONLY IF he has opened his heart.

You should add this to your general knowledge on M Chia and his system...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwLlzf6LOW4

[Spectrum]

Who what when where why

 

Fuck (plow) it

 

who gives a fuck(plow)

what the fuck(plow)

when do u fuck(plow)

where do u fuck(plow)

why do u fuck(plow)

 

love to fuck(plow), fuck(plow) to love?

 

The lost sword...If you turn a sword upside down isn't it a plow?

[markern]

Read these:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/12466-the-internal-climax/

 

http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/lao_tzu_tai_chi_of_sexual_transcendance

 

http://www.reuniting.info/node/5404

 

From a post I wrote somewhere else;

 

(NRE means new relationship energy meaning the type of crush/love you normally loose after 1-3 years in a relationship)

 

Karezza does not mean mean multiple orgasms without ejaculation in the sense many

people have learnt from mantak CHias books or other similar online sources. These

techniques give you multiple, potentially whole body, PEAK orgasms. THese are

fundamentally different from VALEY orgasms which occur during Karezza.

 

THe difference is kinda hard to explain precisely but it is huge in experience and

in aftereffects. Peak orgasms are like all the orgasms you have had. THey are

explosive, expansive, earthquake like, yang, they make your body contract strongly

and make you moan (the better the orgasms the more extreme the effects on nocie and

movmeent). Valey orgasms are the oposite of this. Firstly they CAN not happen with

goal oriented aproaches. THey only happen when you are able to let go completely and

when orgasms are not on your mind at all. THey are not explsoive but feel more like

an implotion. THey feel more like sinking. THey can kinda like feel like a

waterfall. THey are more like endless streams of blissways that have no particular

begining or end rather than particular events that you can define and count.

 

Peak orgasms happen when you get to very high arousal levels and you can`t hold the

tension anymore. Then your body explodes from the pleasure and releases it in the

orgasms. If makes arousal is where ejaculation happens and we call that 10, then you

can have multiple peak orgasms in the arousal range of say 9,5-9,9. If when you

reach this level you are able to relax and sink into the feeling of the starting

pelvis contractions and bring (breathe) the sensations of arousal and orgasms

upwards in stead of letting it sort of push into and out of the genitals then you

can have multiple, potentially whole body orgasms.

 

Karezza is done by holding arousal levels much lower than where peak orgasms usually

happen. Somewhere around 8 on a a 1-10 scale is often mentioned. Then one sits or

lies with the man inside the woman and hardly moves. Usually no more movement is

done than what is required to maintain a moderate erection. One tries to relax as

much as possible and let go into the experience, breathing deep in the belly and

not high in the chest is essential. Tis is basically the zen of sex» or what happens

if a man enters a woman and they just remain aware. All of this will make sure the

sexual energy remains what you might term "cool". It is not hot and eager and worked

up like during normal sex» and close to orgasms, there is not the strong sense and

feeling of "I`ve GOT to have it" as in normal sex».

 

Peoples initial response to this is that it sounds like it sucks. Why would you wan`t

to remain at a meager 8 in arousal when 9 and 10 feels so much better? The thing is

that after some time as you sink deeper into the feeling of 8 it becomes stronger

than what 10 felt like to you before but you do not get a peak orgasms or

ejaculation. You just get sex» pleasure at level 10. IF you keep at it for longer 10

will eventually give you the feeling of 12 or 15 or 25 but still no ejaculation or

peak orgasm. You are still totally still, rarely making much sounds, you are still

not even at the insane levels of sexual pleasure of say 25 filled with the I`ve GOT

to have it craving. There is no craving or desire in such sex». It is dispassionate

desireless sex» but yet it still feels much better.

 

Within the Karezza landscape valley orgassm usually do occur and over time they might

become very frequent. However, they are not at all necessary for karezza to give

more pleasure than peak orgasmic sex». Once you get into it Karezza will feel like

sexual bliss even when you are not having valley orgasms. You will feel like you are

riding waves of the most exquisite pleasure even when no valley orgasms happen. I

just say this so people will not think that karezza is valley orgasm chasing because

it is not and that mentality can mess it up, but they will happen a lot, especially

after you have practiced it over months or years and especially if you meditate or

do yoga or qigong.

 

Getting karezza to work usually takes some time. For some it works right away but it is quite common that it is only after two weeks that it really starts working for people. As months go by it gets stronger. As years go by it still gets stronger and stronger and stronger. As mentioned practicing meditation, yoga or qigong will make karezza much more powerful and easier to learn.

 

I think one way of explaining karezza is this: arousal and tension are two different things. They tend to operate together but that is not necessary. When there is arousal a certain level of tension leads to peak orgasms. By relaxing that level is never reached and infinite levels of pleasure can be reached. A masf poster said Karezza for him was as god as his MDMA experiences.

 

One study done on either some animals or humans (can`t remember) showed that when

you have an orgasm dopamine levels rise immensely but then later drop to below the

baseline and stay LOW and FLUCTUATING for about two weeks until it stabilizes at the

normal level again. This happens only if there is not another orgasm. If there is

another orgasm dopamine levels rise again and fall again and start fluctuating for

another two weeks.

 

When dopamine is low one feels moody, anxious and more hostile. One easily craves

ANYTHING that will raise dopamine again. Another orgasms might be one of the best

options. Candy, alcohol, massive attention from an AFC boosting your ego in the club

a new sexual partner or shit testing your boyfriend and having him pass it will

probably also make dopamine rise. NOtice also that low dopamine leads to anxiousness

and hostility which is a state that typcially will make a woman shit test without

knowing why. Either just to get a dopamine fix or because she attributes her low

dopamine to you in the first place.

 

THe reunting people and hundreds of people at their forum have observed that when

they abstain from peak orgasms for two weeks their moods change and their view of

their partners change. Abstaining from peak orgasms can mean both no sex» and no

masturbation or karezza/tantra with valley orgasms. The essential effects are usually

the same. After about two weeks both partners start to feel closer to their partner,

flaws they were hung up on start seeming cute again like in the beginning of the

relationship and the desire for sex» is back again strongly.

 

If the couples continue like this the closeness and attraction seems to remain

stable but if they have another peak orgasm they notice that for about two weeks

they get the same feelings of increased distance towards the partner and lessened

attraction and more hostility etc. THe tricky part is that the feelings don`t often

show up right after orgasm. Often people will feel better and more close for a

couple of days and then the problematic feelings start to come until they subside

at about the two week point. THe only way to see this for yourself is to abstain

from peak orgasms for a couple of weeks to see the effects, have another one and

observe the effects for a couple of weeks and so on for a while. THis experiment

has been done by TONS of people whose experience you can read about in the forum at

reuniting.info. I have yet to see a singe

individual who has done this experiment and not reported that they do find a cycle

like this. THe cycle varies for people in that for some it is somewhat longer or

shorter and it varies in intensity but as far as I have seen not a single person who

has done the experiment has reported not finding the cycle. There are people who

claim the woman in the couple does not have such a cycle because she always feels

energized and happy after multiple orgasms and they are still fucking five times a

week and are very much in love even after twenty years. It might be the case that

something about the lovemaking style of a couple or the hormonal wiring of a person

makes him or her immune to the cycle or at least makes it much less strong. It

certainly is the case that some feel it much stronger than others in that they feel

more distant to their partner right away or quite fast and the distance becomes more

strong after peak orgasms. But as I said I have yet to see a single person do the

experiment and fail to see the cycle.

 

As I have understood dopamine from reading about it any new object or activity you

perceive as rewarding will give a dopamine surge if you get to do what you want with

it meaning eat it, drink it, fuck it, own it whatever. THe more times you do this

the smaller the dopamine reward gets and you get tired of the object and you want

another one because your dopamine levels are now low and you can`t get it up again

(no pun intended) with the same object. So you want another woman or at

least variety in the bedroom or new food experiences or a new car or whatever. THe

stuff you haven`t had in a while such as a type of candy you haven`t had in weeks

or your girlfriend when she has been on vacation for three weeks will give you a

much stronger dopamine fix as you have had time to desensitiveize yourself to the

object during its absence.

 

Constant variety such as a bull that has five cows to mate with instead of one will

help. studies show that if he has only one he gets tried of fucking her but if he

has several others he fucks much more. THis is often called to Coolidge effect.

 

It is not hard for people on masf to see how dopamine works as it`s effect is what

people her are constantly trying to work around.

 

The reuniting people thick that the cycle of low and fluctuating dopamine is what

creates most of the conflict between couples. Not just because the individual

partner has low or fluctuating dopamine but because they project the low dopamine as

being caused by their partner.

 

Initially the dopamine hangover is covered up by new relationship energy/ a

crush/love. THe NRE creates so much attraction and probably raises dopamine so much

by itself that it covers up the effects of the cycle on desire for the partner and

because it creates such an artificially positive view of the partner the distance

hostility part is also covered up. After maximum two to three years this energy dies

no matter what and the problems inherent in the dopamine cycle starts to show and so

couples break up.

 

THe reuniting people think that karezza keeps attraction, sexual desire and love

alive through both keeping dopamine levels balanced and through raising oxytocin the

love, bonding, cuddle and empathy hormone very high and keeping it there.

 

I am not so sure on the science at this point but I think to some extent dopamine

and oxytocin are antagonistic. One can drain the other when in extreme. So when

dopamine rises with a peak orgasm it kills of a lot of the oxytocin thus killing

closeness and love. Sure orgasm also creates a rise in oxytocin but it falls after a

very short while, presumably from the dopamine high. The ESSENTIAL argument for

karezza, the real KEY, is that when you have had karezza, with or without valley

orgasms, the aferglow effects of sex» lasts not only 10-15 minutes but from half a day

to two or three days. THis varies with individuals, depending on how long one has

had sex» in that session and if one has just started experimenting with karezza or

has practiced it for years. THis is yet another indication that karezza keeps the

attraction going and that it somehow avoids the

fluctutating dopamine troubles. Related to this it is absolutetly

CONSISTENT that couples report that when they practice karezza regularly they never

loose the desire for having sex» again with their partner, they never get that now I

am FULL feeling you can get after having had lots of sex» with one person or eating

TOO much chocolate.

 

My theory is that dopamine is not related to a lot of the good feelings of sex» but

mostly to the "I`ve GOT to have it" part of the feelings. IT is related to the

drive, to the desire, to the lust, to the craving and to the SATIETY the I`ve had

ENOUGH feelings after lots of sex». By keeping the arousal level low and going deeper

into it rather than creating more you are stearing clear of this effect. WHen you

keep the energy "cool" like i talked about, the dopamine isen`t triggered so much.

It is the desire and lust and desperation that creates the "hotness" of sex».

 

People think this is the key part of sex» for them because it is all they have seen

but this craving is actually what takes you most away from the real pleasure of sex»

and that makes you get tired of it with a particular partner or in general (so you

need to add another fetish to make it exciting again, think porn addict).

 

The karezza people also report that new relationship energy dies after a few years.

But they also report that strong feelings of love remain, strong feelings of sexual

attraction to the partner remains and that the two sort of link toghether. THe type

of love is like the pair bonding friendship type love that psychologists usually

report long term couples having but unlike in normal couple the karezza people

experience this very strongly and so intertwined with high sexual attraction that

they do NOT find the new relationship energy to be any better than what they have

after it dies. THey also report that this other type of love actually increases the

longer the couple stays toghether.

 

I can`t give clear enough explanations of this part but the key part seems to be

that in Karezza the sexual desire remains and keeps strenghtening the love between a

couple but in others it fizzles out and so eventually love disappears as well.

 

WHen you practice karezza it literally feels like the sexual energy starts to ascend

and goes to your heart and strenghtens feelings in your heart. THis can be so

celarly experienced afer a while as an occurrence during sex», and seen in its

aftereffects, that I belive it must be the case. In science terms it would mean that

dopamine and other sexually related hormones start to cooperate with oxytocin and

other related hormones and then keep cooperating indefintively.

 

I have noticed a lot of people claim that if you cuddle too much without sex» the sex»

dries up and shit tests ensue. I am pretty sure if you withdraw all affectionate

touch, all holding each other close and hugs and only fuck animalisticly then love

dries out. Something about karezza just avoids this and so the more cuddling the

better.

 

Tantric sex» practiced correctly gives the same effects as Karezza. unfortunately a

lot of tantra teachers today don`t know WTF they are doing and teach people to have

tons of amazing peak orgasms in stead of or in addition to valley orgasms and this

messes everything up. So unless one gets clarification on exactly how a particular

couple has practiced karezza their experience does not help as data.

 

So how much will this do to help a relationship last? THe most essential part I

think. If you do this the sexual attraction and the love remains and you get another

form of feelings and "beer googles" as a replacement to the NRE to see your partner

through that make them seem more positive than they really are and make you forgive

their mistakes and cooperate. Lack of this is the essential reason relationships

die. NRE dies and so relationships die. With the effects of Karezza as glue a

relationship should have very good odds of lasting.

 

Just how harmonious is a karezza couple? In many ways more than a NRE couple.

Oxytocin creates the pair bonding and cooperation mentality in the couple that keeps

things running smoothly. THis is much more stable and cooperation inducive than NRE

which is far to manic and obsessive to really make to people make everyday life work

smoothly. Sure it works way better than wihtout it but it is just too crazy for long

term harmony.

 

What karezza can`t do anything about is time. Over time you will learn stuff about

your partner that you don`t like, you get time to get into conflicts, over time

maybe one partner wants to move the other not, maybe one changes the other does not.

This can break a couple up despite what karezza brings to the table. But what

karezza does do is compensate adequtetly for the loss of NRE and it breaks you free

from the whole betaization process and its effects.

 

From what I have read in others reports and talking about this with my meditation

teacher. It seems that bitchy, highly irrational and aggressive behavior from women

gets massively reduced and stays down. THis likely has a lot to do with her

dopamine not being low (makes her anxious and hostile) and fluctuating. My teacher

is a fan of David Deida and is very aware of testing and masculinity and feminity in

relationships. Acording to him testing still occurs but much less frequent and much

less harsh. He thinks with karezza you can fail massive amounts of shit tests every

year and still get sex». As evidenced by the experience of the couples at

reuniting.info you can be a highly betaized archetypical AFC and still have as much

sex» as Blackdragon has on average in a week. Betahood will reduce the quality of the

relationship a lot but as all the AFCs who practice karezza still get sex», love and

a lot of harmony then the betaization process must somehow be neutralized or made

much less important in karezza couples.

 

What about your alphaness? Karezza is very cuddly and does not at all resemble the

caveman pounding an alpha needs to give his woman right? Does not matter. When you

practice karezza you (at least over time) will start to feel like extreme yin and

extreme yang during sex» and afterwards will feel more manly and more feminine at the

same time as you have to cuddly oxytocin effect. My meditation teacher says that the

feeling of feminine surrender a woman can experience during this type of sex» is at

least as strong as during BDSM but is achieved without being dominated directly. It

is more like yin and yang energies experienced in their pure forms.

 

Another aspect of karezza is that it strongly diminishes the desire for other

partners and for all sorts of sexual novelty or any sort of

addiction like behavior or objects. THis is almost certainly related to the

dompaine levels.

 

A unique aspect of Karezza is that once you have gotten into it you can schedule it

and it does not require foreplay. As it is not based on excitement/tension one can

make an agreement to have sec at 1730 the day after, meet up at that time, relax a

bit, start sitting with the man inside the woman and just wait a little bit and the

sexual energy starts running by itself and pretty soon the sex» is great. THe couples

in the thread I linked to say that this is their experience and many others in other

threads at reuniting.info can verify the claim as well.

 

So as long as you can make sure both you and your girl have enough time and are not

too tired you should be able to have sex» everyday. And for a long time if you so

desire.

 

 

Oh, and by tantra books by Diana Richardson

Edited April 28, 2011 by markern

[Trunk]

Several yrs ago there was a former HT instructor who had some real eye opening things to say. I compiled the relevant quotes by him in the original thread, here in this post. Plenty of "Healing Love" warning by someone who was in the inner circle.

[宁]

.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Little1

[Aaron]

Hello Thoth-,

 

I wanted to let you know about some things regarding semen retention. Semen retention can be done by anyone, but it doesn't necessarily mean that simply because you are retaining semen, that you are retaining Qi or energy. Semen retention is performed by learning to control the muscles around the prostate in the urethra. By contracting these muscles during orgasm you force your semen to pass up into the bladder, rather than through the urethra. One thing to keep in mind is that this can cause infection. The debate about whether or not by forcing the semen into the bladder, you keep Qi or Jing, is up to others more experienced in the practice to answer, but I seriously doubt that is what happens, rather the influx of hormones in the body at the point of ejaculation cause a state of euphoria that is heightened and thus gives the practitioner an illusion of energy retention.

 

If you're worried about premature ejaculation, I can possibly help you there. Every man in their lifetime will suffer from premature ejaculation. This is particularly prevalent when you are younger, teens and early twenties, because you require less stimulation to achieve an orgasm. Now if you are suffering from this some simple techniques to help you overcome it can be practiced. The easiest, and the one I recommend, is to stop yourself prior to orgasm. During this time you can continue to have sex, but don't further stimulate yourself, rather stimulate your partner. Once you feel your arousal has diminished start again.

 

Masturbation can help with this too, because it helps to desensitize the penis. If you are suffering from premature ejaculation you might want to practice holding off your orgasm by masturbating and stopping prior to your ejaculation.

 

Now if that doesn't work, also keep in mind that anxiety is one of the main causes of premature ejaculation. The more you worry about it, the better the chance that you'll suffer from it, so my advice, try not to worry. If it happens, then it happens, but don't let the fact that it happens cause you to stop having sex with your partner. Just because you're done, doesn't mean that they were done. People have this odd idea that in order to have satisfying sex both partners need to orgasm at about the same time, but this, more often than not, doesn't happen. In fact if you do have an orgasm, then continue to have sex, you might find you are ready to perform later on, depending on your stamina.

 

Anyways, if you're looking for spiritual progress, keep in mind that Tantra originates from the idea that one of the ways to achieve spiritual enlightenment is through physical pleasure. It is not the easiest way to achieve spiritual enlightenment, nor is it, in my opinion, the most practical, especially since it requires a good deal of discipline and self control to actually perform many of the practices in Tantric Yoga. You may find that following a more traditional practice will offer you better results in that regard.

 

In my own opinion, poor sexual performance is not a valid reason for learning Tantra, but rather a serious desire to learn about the spiritual nature of the physical experience. Even then, one might say that sex isn't intended to be a solely spiritual experience, simply because it is quite deeply founded upon the physical response of the person involved. Anyways, I wish you luck in finding an answer to your question.

 

As an aside, it astounds me how many people seem to be drawn to sexual practices. This is one of the questions that we've talked about in the sexual repression thread? Why do people feel the need to suppress or control their sexual urges? If you want to find out more about the answer you can check that thread out.

 

Aaron

Edited April 29, 2011 by Twinner

[Upfromtheashes]

Here, M Chia says that retention happens naturally to a man, IF AND ONLY IF he has opened his heart.

You should add this to your general knowledge on M Chia and his system...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwLlzf6LOW4

 

Very good video thanks !

[宁]

Very good video thanks !

 

You're welcome... I was about to conclude that nobody noticed it

I didn't have access to this kind of information before, and to see it on youtube!! wow.

[Upfromtheashes]

Read these:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/12466-the-internal-climax/

 

http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/lao_tzu_tai_chi_of_sexual_transcendance

 

http://www.reuniting.info/node/5404

 

From a post I wrote somewhere else;

 

(NRE means new relationship energy meaning the type of crush/love you normally loose after 1-3 years in a relationship)

 

Karezza does not mean mean multiple orgasms without ejaculation in the sense many

people have learnt from mantak CHias books or other similar online sources. These

techniques give you multiple, potentially whole body, PEAK orgasms. THese are

fundamentally different from VALEY orgasms which occur during Karezza.

 

THe difference is kinda hard to explain precisely but it is huge in experience and

in aftereffects. Peak orgasms are like all the orgasms you have had. THey are

explosive, expansive, earthquake like, yang, they make your body contract strongly

and make you moan (the better the orgasms the more extreme the effects on nocie and

movmeent). Valey orgasms are the oposite of this. Firstly they CAN not happen with

goal oriented aproaches. THey only happen when you are able to let go completely and

when orgasms are not on your mind at all. THey are not explsoive but feel more like

an implotion. THey feel more like sinking. THey can kinda like feel like a

waterfall. THey are more like endless streams of blissways that have no particular

begining or end rather than particular events that you can define and count.

 

Peak orgasms happen when you get to very high arousal levels and you can`t hold the

tension anymore. Then your body explodes from the pleasure and releases it in the

orgasms. If makes arousal is where ejaculation happens and we call that 10, then you

can have multiple peak orgasms in the arousal range of say 9,5-9,9. If when you

reach this level you are able to relax and sink into the feeling of the starting

pelvis contractions and bring (breathe) the sensations of arousal and orgasms

upwards in stead of letting it sort of push into and out of the genitals then you

can have multiple, potentially whole body orgasms.

 

Karezza is done by holding arousal levels much lower than where peak orgasms usually

happen. Somewhere around 8 on a a 1-10 scale is often mentioned. Then one sits or

lies with the man inside the woman and hardly moves. Usually no more movement is

done than what is required to maintain a moderate erection. One tries to relax as

much as possible and let go into the experience, breathing deep in the belly and

not high in the chest is essential. Tis is basically the zen of sex» or what happens

if a man enters a woman and they just remain aware. All of this will make sure the

sexual energy remains what you might term "cool". It is not hot and eager and worked

up like during normal sex» and close to orgasms, there is not the strong sense and

feeling of "I`ve GOT to have it" as in normal sex».

 

Peoples initial response to this is that it sounds like it sucks. Why would you wan`t

to remain at a meager 8 in arousal when 9 and 10 feels so much better? The thing is

that after some time as you sink deeper into the feeling of 8 it becomes stronger

than what 10 felt like to you before but you do not get a peak orgasms or

ejaculation. You just get sex» pleasure at level 10. IF you keep at it for longer 10

will eventually give you the feeling of 12 or 15 or 25 but still no ejaculation or

peak orgasm. You are still totally still, rarely making much sounds, you are still

not even at the insane levels of sexual pleasure of say 25 filled with the I`ve GOT

to have it craving. There is no craving or desire in such sex». It is dispassionate

desireless sex» but yet it still feels much better.

 

Within the Karezza landscape valley orgassm usually do occur and over time they might

become very frequent. However, they are not at all necessary for karezza to give

more pleasure than peak orgasmic sex». Once you get into it Karezza will feel like

sexual bliss even when you are not having valley orgasms. You will feel like you are

riding waves of the most exquisite pleasure even when no valley orgasms happen. I

just say this so people will not think that karezza is valley orgasm chasing because

it is not and that mentality can mess it up, but they will happen a lot, especially

after you have practiced it over months or years and especially if you meditate or

do yoga or qigong.

 

Getting karezza to work usually takes some time. For some it works right away but it is quite common that it is only after two weeks that it really starts working for people. As months go by it gets stronger. As years go by it still gets stronger and stronger and stronger. As mentioned practicing meditation, yoga or qigong will make karezza much more powerful and easier to learn.

 

I think one way of explaining karezza is this: arousal and tension are two different things. They tend to operate together but that is not necessary. When there is arousal a certain level of tension leads to peak orgasms. By relaxing that level is never reached and infinite levels of pleasure can be reached. A masf poster said Karezza for him was as god as his MDMA experiences.

 

One study done on either some animals or humans (can`t remember) showed that when

you have an orgasm dopamine levels rise immensely but then later drop to below the

baseline and stay LOW and FLUCTUATING for about two weeks until it stabilizes at the

normal level again. This happens only if there is not another orgasm. If there is

another orgasm dopamine levels rise again and fall again and start fluctuating for

another two weeks.

 

When dopamine is low one feels moody, anxious and more hostile. One easily craves

ANYTHING that will raise dopamine again. Another orgasms might be one of the best

options. Candy, alcohol, massive attention from an AFC boosting your ego in the club

a new sexual partner or shit testing your boyfriend and having him pass it will

probably also make dopamine rise. NOtice also that low dopamine leads to anxiousness

and hostility which is a state that typcially will make a woman shit test without

knowing why. Either just to get a dopamine fix or because she attributes her low

dopamine to you in the first place.

 

THe reunting people and hundreds of people at their forum have observed that when

they abstain from peak orgasms for two weeks their moods change and their view of

their partners change. Abstaining from peak orgasms can mean both no sex» and no

masturbation or karezza/tantra with valley orgasms. The essential effects are usually

the same. After about two weeks both partners start to feel closer to their partner,

flaws they were hung up on start seeming cute again like in the beginning of the

relationship and the desire for sex» is back again strongly.

 

If the couples continue like this the closeness and attraction seems to remain

stable but if they have another peak orgasm they notice that for about two weeks

they get the same feelings of increased distance towards the partner and lessened

attraction and more hostility etc. THe tricky part is that the feelings don`t often

show up right after orgasm. Often people will feel better and more close for a

couple of days and then the problematic feelings start to come until they subside

at about the two week point. THe only way to see this for yourself is to abstain

from peak orgasms for a couple of weeks to see the effects, have another one and

observe the effects for a couple of weeks and so on for a while. THis experiment

has been done by TONS of people whose experience you can read about in the forum at

reuniting.info. I have yet to see a singe

individual who has done this experiment and not reported that they do find a cycle

like this. THe cycle varies for people in that for some it is somewhat longer or

shorter and it varies in intensity but as far as I have seen not a single person who

has done the experiment has reported not finding the cycle. There are people who

claim the woman in the couple does not have such a cycle because she always feels

energized and happy after multiple orgasms and they are still fucking five times a

week and are very much in love even after twenty years. It might be the case that

something about the lovemaking style of a couple or the hormonal wiring of a person

makes him or her immune to the cycle or at least makes it much less strong. It

certainly is the case that some feel it much stronger than others in that they feel

more distant to their partner right away or quite fast and the distance becomes more

strong after peak orgasms. But as I said I have yet to see a single person do the

experiment and fail to see the cycle.

 

As I have understood dopamine from reading about it any new object or activity you

perceive as rewarding will give a dopamine surge if you get to do what you want with

it meaning eat it, drink it, fuck it, own it whatever. THe more times you do this

the smaller the dopamine reward gets and you get tired of the object and you want

another one because your dopamine levels are now low and you can`t get it up again

(no pun intended) with the same object. So you want another woman or at

least variety in the bedroom or new food experiences or a new car or whatever. THe

stuff you haven`t had in a while such as a type of candy you haven`t had in weeks

or your girlfriend when she has been on vacation for three weeks will give you a

much stronger dopamine fix as you have had time to desensitiveize yourself to the

object during its absence.

 

Constant variety such as a bull that has five cows to mate with instead of one will

help. studies show that if he has only one he gets tried of fucking her but if he

has several others he fucks much more. THis is often called to Coolidge effect.

 

It is not hard for people on masf to see how dopamine works as it`s effect is what

people her are constantly trying to work around.

 

The reuniting people thick that the cycle of low and fluctuating dopamine is what

creates most of the conflict between couples. Not just because the individual

partner has low or fluctuating dopamine but because they project the low dopamine as

being caused by their partner.

 

Initially the dopamine hangover is covered up by new relationship energy/ a

crush/love. THe NRE creates so much attraction and probably raises dopamine so much

by itself that it covers up the effects of the cycle on desire for the partner and

because it creates such an artificially positive view of the partner the distance

hostility part is also covered up. After maximum two to three years this energy dies

no matter what and the problems inherent in the dopamine cycle starts to show and so

couples break up.

 

THe reuniting people think that karezza keeps attraction, sexual desire and love

alive through both keeping dopamine levels balanced and through raising oxytocin the

love, bonding, cuddle and empathy hormone very high and keeping it there.

 

I am not so sure on the science at this point but I think to some extent dopamine

and oxytocin are antagonistic. One can drain the other when in extreme. So when

dopamine rises with a peak orgasm it kills of a lot of the oxytocin thus killing

closeness and love. Sure orgasm also creates a rise in oxytocin but it falls after a

very short while, presumably from the dopamine high. The ESSENTIAL argument for

karezza, the real KEY, is that when you have had karezza, with or without valley

orgasms, the aferglow effects of sex» lasts not only 10-15 minutes but from half a day

to two or three days. THis varies with individuals, depending on how long one has

had sex» in that session and if one has just started experimenting with karezza or

has practiced it for years. THis is yet another indication that karezza keeps the

attraction going and that it somehow avoids the

fluctutating dopamine troubles. Related to this it is absolutetly

CONSISTENT that couples report that when they practice karezza regularly they never

loose the desire for having sex» again with their partner, they never get that now I

am FULL feeling you can get after having had lots of sex» with one person or eating

TOO much chocolate.

 

My theory is that dopamine is not related to a lot of the good feelings of sex» but

mostly to the "I`ve GOT to have it" part of the feelings. IT is related to the

drive, to the desire, to the lust, to the craving and to the SATIETY the I`ve had

ENOUGH feelings after lots of sex». By keeping the arousal level low and going deeper

into it rather than creating more you are stearing clear of this effect. WHen you

keep the energy "cool" like i talked about, the dopamine isen`t triggered so much.

It is the desire and lust and desperation that creates the "hotness" of sex».

 

People think this is the key part of sex» for them because it is all they have seen

but this craving is actually what takes you most away from the real pleasure of sex»

and that makes you get tired of it with a particular partner or in general (so you

need to add another fetish to make it exciting again, think porn addict).

 

The karezza people also report that new relationship energy dies after a few years.

But they also report that strong feelings of love remain, strong feelings of sexual

attraction to the partner remains and that the two sort of link toghether. THe type

of love is like the pair bonding friendship type love that psychologists usually

report long term couples having but unlike in normal couple the karezza people

experience this very strongly and so intertwined with high sexual attraction that

they do NOT find the new relationship energy to be any better than what they have

after it dies. THey also report that this other type of love actually increases the

longer the couple stays toghether.

 

I can`t give clear enough explanations of this part but the key part seems to be

that in Karezza the sexual desire remains and keeps strenghtening the love between a

couple but in others it fizzles out and so eventually love disappears as well.

 

WHen you practice karezza it literally feels like the sexual energy starts to ascend

and goes to your heart and strenghtens feelings in your heart. THis can be so

celarly experienced afer a while as an occurrence during sex», and seen in its

aftereffects, that I belive it must be the case. In science terms it would mean that

dopamine and other sexually related hormones start to cooperate with oxytocin and

other related hormones and then keep cooperating indefintively.

 

I have noticed a lot of people claim that if you cuddle too much without sex» the sex»

dries up and shit tests ensue. I am pretty sure if you withdraw all affectionate

touch, all holding each other close and hugs and only fuck animalisticly then love

dries out. Something about karezza just avoids this and so the more cuddling the

better.

 

Tantric sex» practiced correctly gives the same effects as Karezza. unfortunately a

lot of tantra teachers today don`t know WTF they are doing and teach people to have

tons of amazing peak orgasms in stead of or in addition to valley orgasms and this

messes everything up. So unless one gets clarification on exactly how a particular

couple has practiced karezza their experience does not help as data.

 

So how much will this do to help a relationship last? THe most essential part I

think. If you do this the sexual attraction and the love remains and you get another

form of feelings and "beer googles" as a replacement to the NRE to see your partner

through that make them seem more positive than they really are and make you forgive

their mistakes and cooperate. Lack of this is the essential reason relationships

die. NRE dies and so relationships die. With the effects of Karezza as glue a

relationship should have very good odds of lasting.

 

Just how harmonious is a karezza couple? In many ways more than a NRE couple.

Oxytocin creates the pair bonding and cooperation mentality in the couple that keeps

things running smoothly. THis is much more stable and cooperation inducive than NRE

which is far to manic and obsessive to really make to people make everyday life work

smoothly. Sure it works way better than wihtout it but it is just too crazy for long

term harmony.

 

What karezza can`t do anything about is time. Over time you will learn stuff about

your partner that you don`t like, you get time to get into conflicts, over time

maybe one partner wants to move the other not, maybe one changes the other does not.

This can break a couple up despite what karezza brings to the table. But what

karezza does do is compensate adequtetly for the loss of NRE and it breaks you free

from the whole betaization process and its effects.

 

From what I have read in others reports and talking about this with my meditation

teacher. It seems that bitchy, highly irrational and aggressive behavior from women

gets massively reduced and stays down. THis likely has a lot to do with her

dopamine not being low (makes her anxious and hostile) and fluctuating. My teacher

is a fan of David Deida and is very aware of testing and masculinity and feminity in

relationships. Acording to him testing still occurs but much less frequent and much

less harsh. He thinks with karezza you can fail massive amounts of shit tests every

year and still get sex». As evidenced by the experience of the couples at

reuniting.info you can be a highly betaized archetypical AFC and still have as much

sex» as Blackdragon has on average in a week. Betahood will reduce the quality of the

relationship a lot but as all the AFCs who practice karezza still get sex», love and

a lot of harmony then the betaization process must somehow be neutralized or made

much less important in karezza couples.

 

What about your alphaness? Karezza is very cuddly and does not at all resemble the

caveman pounding an alpha needs to give his woman right? Does not matter. When you

practice karezza you (at least over time) will start to feel like extreme yin and

extreme yang during sex» and afterwards will feel more manly and more feminine at the

same time as you have to cuddly oxytocin effect. My meditation teacher says that the

feeling of feminine surrender a woman can experience during this type of sex» is at

least as strong as during BDSM but is achieved without being dominated directly. It

is more like yin and yang energies experienced in their pure forms.

 

Another aspect of karezza is that it strongly diminishes the desire for other

partners and for all sorts of sexual novelty or any sort of

addiction like behavior or objects. THis is almost certainly related to the

dompaine levels.

 

A unique aspect of Karezza is that once you have gotten into it you can schedule it

and it does not require foreplay. As it is not based on excitement/tension one can

make an agreement to have sec at 1730 the day after, meet up at that time, relax a

bit, start sitting with the man inside the woman and just wait a little bit and the

sexual energy starts running by itself and pretty soon the sex» is great. THe couples

in the thread I linked to say that this is their experience and many others in other

threads at reuniting.info can verify the claim as well.

 

So as long as you can make sure both you and your girl have enough time and are not

too tired you should be able to have sex» everyday. And for a long time if you so

desire.

 

 

Oh, and by tantra books by Diana Richardson

 

Ok that post rocked and just explained a lot

Not just my relationships but in everyday life -

I often take on a Kareeza state while playing basketball - I used to play passionately

the way all males play in intense games - But it is so painful now and draining of a ton of energy so now I

am completely not doing and relaxed and breathing deep and good posture - and I move often effortlessly - the energy moves me first- Thus if I stay at a 7 or 8 I never get out of breath where if I go up to a 9 0r 10 I get out of breath and it takes me much longer to recover from exercise - my emotions are in an upheaval state - I lose clarity - do not react from clear seeing but from addiction to hormones and desires - Yes I am still talking about playing basketball - There is a ton more to it though - It helps to let go of ego - to be satified - patient - not FIXATED on a goal - I noticed that giving to someone else in basketball like setting a pick or being generous with a pass has the same effect as doing this in real life or even sexually - It takes your mind off yourself and getting your needs met and the suffering and dissatisfaction inherent in this -

There is no need to prove yourself - no need to dominate someone else - no need for posturing - just relaxation - joy comes from the execution and learning strategy and improving oneself without comparisons save for being inspired by what another has achieved in self development -

This is a refinement process I believe - training both the hormonal systems and nervous systems as well as the belief systems ( What beliefs are helpful and valueable in this current environment? )

 

Glen Morris has great advice -

Keep Going - Keep Playing!

This stuff can be so fun with a light heart - we can do and learn so much as humans - we dont have to buy into belief systems we can find the truth - we can invent better ones !

Edited April 29, 2011 by Upfromtheashes