How do you measure meditation progress?

[InfinityTruth]

I'm having a hard time finding a way to measure my progress in meditation, and was looking for some ideas.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I'm having a hard time finding a way to measure my progress in meditation, and was looking for some ideas.

 

How about a journal?

Or a blog?

[InfinityTruth]

How about a journal?

Or a blog?

 

 

Not a bad idea, I may try the blog route. Still. How do you measure from a blog or journal?

[thelerner]

This is a good question. Certainly you can measure length, but depth is harder. Still there are sign posts. For me, as I relax my eyes tear a little, my nose runs a bit. My breathing slows down. I actually have an App (Insight Timer) I set to ring(strike wooden block) every 18 seconds and ring every 5 minutes. It takes me 5 minutes to get to the 36 second breath cycle comfortably. Another 5 til my thoughts calm. From there I cycle between quietude and not.

 

I have other routines, too. Half the time I'll just sit.

 

So, time is easy. Breath cycle is measurable. Even the cycles are somewhat measurable, though don't to hung up on it. Its all about the space between thoughts. How still were you, internally, externally? How you feel afterwards is important.

 

Michael

[InfinityTruth]

This is a good question. Certainly you can measure length, but depth is harder. Still there are sign posts. For me, as I relax my eyes tear a little, my nose runs a bit. My breathing slows down. I actually have an App (Insight Timer) I set to ring(strike wooden block) every 18 seconds and ring every 5 minutes. It takes me 5 minutes to get to the 36 second breath cycle comfortably. Another 5 til my thoughts calm. From there I cycle between quietude and not.

 

I have other routines, too. Half the time I'll just sit.

 

So, time is easy. Breath cycle is measurable. Even the cycles are somewhat measurable, though don't to hung up on it. Its all about the space between thoughts. How still were you, internally, externally? How you feel afterwards is important.

 

Michael

 

Thank you, very helpful especially the last part. I've actually been ending my sessions lately wanting to continue the meditation, which is extremely odd for me. I usually hate my sessions to be honest lol. I was definitely calmer after my meditation. I haven't really tried being externally still though. I may have to try that.

Edited April 26, 2011 by InfinityTruth

[Otis]

I'm having a hard time finding a way to measure my progress in meditation, and was looking for some ideas.

I think there's a pretty good argument against trying to measure your progress, because I don't think meditation is really about achievement. Nor is growth linear; rather it cycles around in ways that defy easy measurement.

 

I think a journal is a good idea, though, if you feel the need to relate the present to the past.

 

There are no yardsticks, other than someone else's concepts, so I'd recommend just having fun with meditation. Learn to love it, instead of trying to get something out of it. Learn to love being ruthlessly honest in observing the contents of your head. Learn to love seeing your own process from a different perspective. Rather than aiming for enlightenment, just live your life with as little clutter as possible, right now.

 

If you tie everything to the expectation of an outcome, then all of the important in-between will be missed. And IME, it's all about the in-between, staying on the path, rather than fulfilling any check lists.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Otis

[hagar]

I'm having a hard time finding a way to measure my progress in meditation, and was looking for some ideas.

 

Comparing brings a delay of whatever you're looing for.

Sitting is ultimately a practice in failure.

 

all the rest does not last. Failure stays.

 

h

[Birch]

When it gets easier? When everything gets easier? Even the bad times?

 

I found a personal practice forum on here was good. Not so much to measure, but to prattle on about what I thought were the craziest, wildest experiences ever. Turns out they weren't that crazy. Thanks again TTB's :-)

 

I guess "progress" implies you have a goal towards which you're undertaking meditation as a means of getting there? A place where you are not already. I mean it is referred to as a "vehicle" or a "path"

 

Depending on what techniques you're using, there are sort of roadmaps out there. I still like Dan Ingram's stuff - even if I found him harsh. I don't know though, I think it says more about the techniques than anywhere a given person might be going. I like the biology of kundalini website. But then I'd chosen a referent practice, so it made sense I'd go check that out.

[mYTHmAKER]

I'm having a hard time finding a way to measure my progress in meditation, and was looking for some ideas.

 

Just sit. Don't measure - can't measure.

It is not a straight line.

[ejr1069]

IMHO, there is no measure of progress in meditation. You just do it. When you try to measure, you have now created an expectation which takes you out of the moment. It's not like running or lifting weights. In fact, it's kind of the total opposite. It's not doing, it's not thinking, it's not judging, it's not comparing, it's not measuring, it is simply observing.

[doc benway]

Comparing brings a delay of whatever you're looing for.

Sitting is ultimately a practice in failure.

 

all the rest does not last. Failure stays.

 

h

I will never tire of your posts Hagar. You really bring a wonderful perspective to our forum.

How to measure progress in something that, by it's very nature, is to be without a goal?

When sitting becomes an end and not a means, when daily life becomes the meditation, perhaps that is a measure of "progress"?

Certainly there are methods that are constructed of exercises where some measure of progress or some particular insight or experience is needed before graduating to subsequent steps. One can argue - is this meditation?

[sean]

http://bit.ly/gemL27

 

sean

[RiverSnake]

When i first sat down and began meditating i would say to myself "ok i am going to meditate for 10 minutes."

 

-I would do my best to stay patient and observe how still my mind was, most often it was not quite. Timing yourself and seeing how much or little effort it takes you to get through your session was a good measure of progress for me.

 

-The only "trap" to this method is that you will often find yourself guessing and hoping that time is up and waiting for your timer to ring. This is a trick.

 

Meditation is not a means to an end, it is an end in itself, the present moment lasts forever, it is impossible to escape it, all you need to do is relax into it. When you realize in essence that meditation is effortless and in essence means to "do nothing" you will have made progress.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Tao Apprentice

[fiveelementtao]

How do you measure progress in meditation? The more you want to measure your progress, the less you have progressed. The less that you want to measure your progress the more you have progressed. But by the time you don't care anymore, you realize that the idea of progression in meditation is an illusion... So, why not save time and just meditate and forget about the idea of progress. In fact, why not meditate on the uselessness of wanting to progress in meditation...

[sean]

imvho:

 

the actual practice of meditation involves attending to what is present, without generating additional attachment to any object, including ideas, expectations or attempted diagnosis of stages.

 

and also

 

there are roughly similar stages of awakening the human mind goes through when the conditions of a consistent, earnest meditation practice are applied.

 

i've noticed different teachers and traditions put more or less emphasis on the practice vs the path, and there appear to be relative advantages and pitfalls to either emphasis.

 

sean

[Birdoftruth]

you have these people here who tell you that you shouldn't measure it because of ego blah blah. I have been reading and performing the exercises in Concentration: the path to mental mastery by mouni sadou. It has a progressive system set up so that you can quantitatively measure your progress and know when you are ready to move on to the next exercise. When you finish Exercise 9 you have completed them all and should have a lot of meditation, self inquiry, and concentration under your belt to where you will be further along then most people. If I did not have this progressive system I would have dropped out in the first week. I just finished my first month and still on the first exercise. When I first started I couldn't hold the exercise for 10 seconds. Now I can for 2 minutes. There's the progress. Once I reach 5 minutes then I move on to exercise 2. The fact is you can't just tell someone to just sit down and have no expectations because Western Society is result oriented and needs to have something to measure up against. This is not to say that a few are the exception but this approach is more Western friendly IMO.

 

I don't know how you would measure Vipassana progress. I know when I did it I found my concentration in the day to increase more and more and found myself becoming indifferent but nothing quantitatively with the exception of increased meditation times.

[ejr1069]

you have these people here who tell you that you shouldn't measure it because of ego blah blah. I have been reading and performing the exercises in Concentration: the path to mental mastery by mouni sadou. It has a progressive system set up so that you can quantitatively measure your progress and know when you are ready to move on to the next exercise. When you finish Exercise 9 you have completed them all and should have a lot of meditation, self inquiry, and concentration under your belt to where you will be further along then most people. If I did not have this progressive system I would have dropped out in the first week. I just finished my first month and still on the first exercise. When I first started I couldn't hold the exercise for 10 seconds. Now I can for 2 minutes. There's the progress. Once I reach 5 minutes then I move on to exercise 2. The fact is you can't just tell someone to just sit down and have no expectations because Western Society is result oriented and needs to have something to measure up against. This is not to say that a few are the exception but this approach is more Western friendly IMO.

 

I don't know how you would measure Vipassana progress. I know when I did it I found my concentration in the day to increase more and more and found myself becoming indifferent but nothing quantitatively with the exception of increased meditation times.

 

I do not know who Mouni Sadou is. How do you know that his methods work? What if after months and months of practice you have "progressed" to the point where you are simply better at doing his exercises? Is that a real measure of spiritual development?

[RiverSnake]

you have these people here who tell you that you shouldn't measure it because of ego blah blah. I have been reading and performing the exercises in Concentration: the path to mental mastery by mouni sadou. It has a progressive system set up so that you can quantitatively measure your progress and know when you are ready to move on to the next exercise. When you finish Exercise 9 you have completed them all and should have a lot of meditation, self inquiry, and concentration under your belt to where you will be further along then most people. If I did not have this progressive system I would have dropped out in the first week. I just finished my first month and still on the first exercise. When I first started I couldn't hold the exercise for 10 seconds. Now I can for 2 minutes. There's the progress. Once I reach 5 minutes then I move on to exercise 2. The fact is you can't just tell someone to just sit down and have no expectations because Western Society is result oriented and needs to have something to measure up against. This is not to say that a few are the exception but this approach is more Western friendly IMO.

 

I don't know how you would measure Vipassana progress. I know when I did it I found my concentration in the day to increase more and more and found myself becoming indifferent but nothing quantitatively with the exception of increased meditation times.

 

-It can be useful to measure ones practice in the beginning simply to show oneself the amount of time that you are putting into your practice.

 

-However, ultimately you want to free yourself from that sort of thing and embrace spontaneity and turn form into formless, in this regard using measurements can be a crutch to the mind.

[InfinityTruth]

you have these people here who tell you that you shouldn't measure it because of ego blah blah. I have been reading and performing the exercises in Concentration: the path to mental mastery by mouni sadou. It has a progressive system set up so that you can quantitatively measure your progress and know when you are ready to move on to the next exercise. When you finish Exercise 9 you have completed them all and should have a lot of meditation, self inquiry, and concentration under your belt to where you will be further along then most people. If I did not have this progressive system I would have dropped out in the first week. I just finished my first month and still on the first exercise. When I first started I couldn't hold the exercise for 10 seconds. Now I can for 2 minutes. There's the progress. Once I reach 5 minutes then I move on to exercise 2. The fact is you can't just tell someone to just sit down and have no expectations because Western Society is result oriented and needs to have something to measure up against. This is not to say that a few are the exception but this approach is more Western friendly IMO.

 

I don't know how you would measure Vipassana progress. I know when I did it I found my concentration in the day to increase more and more and found myself becoming indifferent but nothing quantitatively with the exception of increased meditation times.

 

Thanks man for the real world response. I appreciate the different perspective. I definitely plan on looking into that book.

 

EDIT: If I can find it.

Edited April 27, 2011 by InfinityTruth

[ShaktiMama]

I'm having a hard time finding a way to measure my progress in meditation, and was looking for some ideas.

 

http://www.justplainyoga.com/workshops.htm#jpmrelaxation

 

If you live in PA, go see my friend and student, Ron. He is blogging 100 days of meditation practice. I don't remember the link to that blog but he can give it to you. He is one of the most intellectually honest, no BS kind of guys I know. He can give you some great instruction and measuring tool ideas. He has done the two weeks staring at the wall Vispassana meditation to the Secret Smile with me. He has a broad range of experiences and teachers.

 

Teaching meditation and yoga is his specialty. Tell him you heard about him from me. He can help you with kundalini questions and problems too.

 

He is a good man.

 

s

[Guest sykkelpump]

Funny that so many here says it can not be measured,why shouldnt it?

it sure can be measured as long as you meditate in a correct way.then you will have somewhat steadily progress and your meditation will go deeper and deeper passing different stages.Here is a book about it

http://www.meditationexpert.com/measuringmeditation.html

[Birdoftruth]

IMO the measuring meditation book is too much because it has 800+ pages and would deter someone trying to get into this stuff. There's just a lot of unnecessary verbiage in a book of so much volume. Simple is the Tao.

[Guest sykkelpump]

IMO the measuring meditation book is too much because it has 800+ pages and would deter someone trying to get into this stuff. There's just a lot of unnecessary verbiage in a book of so much volume. Simple is the Tao.

 

it is for people who meditate seriously,not for the general tao bum who changes their spiritual practice every time some self claimed master comes on this board with a new super system.they off course dont belive in measuring progress since the never felt any themselves

[Mandrake]

If one doesn't have anything in mind, why meditate at all?

 

All serious traditions use meditation as a tool for specific goals, and there are signposts on the road to that endpoint. There are also signs that you are doing something wrong. Your tradition should tell you about these, and also inform you how to know you are not progressing at all.

 

You find the same thing with all kinds of skills; sports, crafts, martial arts, languages...

 

The signs of progress at the beginning are things like deeper relaxation, increased baseline happiness, access to more constructive states of minds, less negativity, less disturbance by emotions and afflictions, negative emotions lingering for shorter and shorter time, more energy, sharper awareness... then there are energetic and physical markers as well.

 

Don't waste your time. You want to know that you are progressing or not so that you can correct your practice. A good teacher is very valuable.

 

 

Mandrake

[de_paradise]

Vispassana is measured in Samadhi states, but it takes so long to reach a first low level samadhi state, that you will get no satisfaction if you want to feed your curiosity *now*. You can keep in mind that if you are doing the breath-watching meditation, you will always be making progress. Its very difficult to screw up, and I think thats why the Buddha recommended this meditation.

 

You can sometimes measure your meditation progress in terms of heart opening, and freedom from ego, but for this you have to note behavior in your own states and over a long period of time. Progress is slow as molasses, and I think most people quit meditation over the frustration of not knowing if they are making progress. If you have a vegan or fruitarian diet you will become more sensitive to energies, and will be more aware of changing stages in your meditation. So you can guage the micro stages better if you detox your body and feed the cells regenerating fresh fruit and vegetables.