Good Karma + Bad Karma = ?

[ShaktiMama]

What I did read about Buddha's teachings MATCHES the traditional taoist doctrine...and my common sense about how things work in our world.

As Liao says:"The glass of water I just drunk was maybe once part of Queen Victoria; the protein in my muscle was before protein in the muscle of a cow." The same is it with Chi. My Chi was once part of many other people's chi. My chi generates my personality in cooperation with my body (and it's chemicals). When my chi burns out, my personality ceases to exist. No immortal "true self" necessary! There is no self/soul/angel/monade/whatever...that's only fairy tales. Ever thought about the exploding count of people on this planet? Where come all this new souls from?

 

 

When I was studying Daoist medical gigong with Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson's school( I did the first year) we were studying conception, birth, etc. He wrote that one common daoist theory is a human body can be too small to energetically contain the vastness and shining light of the Ling Shen, what some western schools call the Monad, over soul, etc. The Hun and Po of our bodies are more like the souls which is what we all contain.

http://www.itmonline.org/shen/chap1.htm Talks some of what Jerry talks about.

 

I cant find my text book to quote pages cause it is still packed away from moving but it is in the first couple of chapters of volume 1 of his medical gigong textbook series. What he surveys and explains is the movement of us from the Dao to pregnancy to birth as it involves becoming human. Johnson received the majority of his training in Daoism, daoist medical qigong in China. He is also a big kahuna daoist priest. He is meticulous with footnotes so it would be easy enough to review your self and make your own decision.

 

If I remember correctly it goes something like this:

 

 

First there is the Dao which is sometimes explained in Buddhism which encompasses "the ten thousand things" which, among other things represents the concept of the diversity and unity of all things in the universe. A human being's journey starts there.

 

He says the Ling Shen or Shen Ling, you can say either way, is best represented by the term, "the Holy Spirit."

 

Now, IMO, I firmly believe that the Holy Spirit is the way Christians describe something that some hear me refer to as Kundalini SHakti.

 

TO make a long explanation short cause I don't have the time to get in this deeply on this forum...what I took away from reading those textbooks and lectures...and I will qualify that by saying I am not attached to dogma and I know there is far more in this universe that I dont know than I do know. I am, as I grow older, more cognizant of the fact that I am but a broken plate on this planet.

 

So, what I took away from those lectures, is a physical body is a conglomeration of souls (hun and po) which is different (by daoist tradition) is different from Shen to differentiate from our individual shen.

 

Our bodies hold shen which is a fragment of the Ling Shen. Since there are so many fragments of the Ling Shen (10,000 things, remember?) in the Tao, there are infinite permutations of shen and hun and po so there could be infinite numbers of "souls".

 

Increase your world view to the universal. If Earth is just one of the inhabited planets in the Universe, and the Tao is Universal ( and yes, that Dao which can be knows is not the Dao... but that is conversation for another time)...then ????? what? For that perspective there can be an unlimited number of souls to go around, especially if look as if as souls, or fragments of the Ling Shen are what comprises an individual in whatever form you take, or whatever dimension you live in.

 

Change your perspective, ie, chi you have was shared with Queen victoria. I offer chi is never shared, it always is and we exist in a Universal Chi field. Our personal chi (energy field) is a wave or frequency that extends from the Universal Chi. (universal energy field)

 

This reductionist view does not at all but represent an infinitesimally small attempt to understand All that Is. What hubris we have if we think we have the answers let alone, the Answer. What I know from my ongoing research in neurotheology is these questions alter the brain to receive even more refined and discrete understanding of the nature of the universe. Don't stop asking questions but just realize none of us have the answer.

 

Time for a bhakti chai latte.

 

No, I am not a scholar of buddhism...just a student of life.

s

[Wells]

[Wells]

Ok, please show me where you found he said that.

Don't know, it was maybe 10 years ago when I researched intensively about Buddha and Buddhism.

 

What? I don't understand.

kill asshole/heal good guy/kill asshole/heal good guy/killasshole/heal little kitten/torture asshole to death/heal good guy/.....and so all day long.

[ShaktiMama]

That's what I call a true NEW AGE system: Just take from every system/belief/religion/fairy tale what you like, mix it and voilà! Because everybody got a glimpse from the truth (I doubt that!), then a mix of all will be best? Haha, when I did read "kahuna daoist priest" it was clear that the (made up) "ling shen" should equate the kahuna principle "higher self". Then I thought: "OK, why not mix in Christianity too and call it "Christ Consciousness" or so!" but then I did read "holy spirit". And the holy spirit = kundalini = .....

Yeah, right!

 

Do you really read what I wrote or just look for inflammatory terms so that you can ridicule what I said? If you did you would have seen, IMO, a synthesis of much available research and study and personal experience coming close to 30 years.

 

 

Have you never heard of a sports coach or champion of some system called the "big Kahuna". big kahuna is just a slang cultural term of respect. I know an authentic kahuna who comes from an authentic lineage and teaches me things that white kahunas never will. I never said that Johnson was a kahuna. You inferred it.

 

you can read his academic and martial bios here: http://www.qigongmedicine.com/

 

too long for me to get into here.

 

I am minister of a Christian line that traces it self back through at least 18 different lineages to the time of AD 55.

 

I won't go on. Do your own research. You are entitled to your own opinions and you are making subjective value decisions on my opinions and my own research. Ridicule and sarcasm I can be sure is not a component of someone who has a contemplative practice in the Dao. Just my opinion but are all here on TBs to say I have arrived, I have the right opinion? If people feel the need to tell other people their answers, the tellers have missed asking the appropriate questions.

 

You can, as I tell all my students, agree with me 100% but that means the conversation gets boring and goes nowhere fast. We can totally disagree and conflict can arise and we still do not move anymore. You can sit with what is being examined, honestly give it some consideration, and we can go for awhile together.

 

In my own very personal opinion, I am getting a bit annoyed (i said this was personal)with people who sling around the term "new age" like it a curse or epithet of the worst implications.

 

After studying and teaching since the late 80s I can say now with some assurance that it is evidence of the sloppy thinking of most people who hurl that slur around. People will throw out the plain looking touchstone that nestles among the other plain looking stones.

 

The grail cup is the Carpenter's cup.

Edited May 1, 2011 by ShaktiMama

[Otis]

That's what I call a true NEW AGE system: Just take from every system/belief/religion/fairy tale what you like, mix it and voilà! Because everybody got a glimpse from the truth (I doubt that!), then a mix of all will be best? Haha, when I did read "kahuna daoist priest" it was clear that the (made up) "ling shen" should equate the kahuna principle "higher self". Then I thought: "OK, why not mix in Christianity too and call it "Christ Consciousness" or so!" but then I did read "holy spirit". And the holy spirit = kundalini = .....

Yeah, right!

This is "winning", Charlie Sheen style. Jog a victory lap, declare yourself a genius, and (with faulty arguments) dismiss your "opponent", who never even saw this as a competition, to begin with.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Otis

[ShaktiMama]

This is "winning", Charlie Sheen style. Jog a victory lap, declare yourself a genius, and (with faulty arguments) dismiss your "opponent", who never even saw this as a competition, to begin with.

 

 

 

we begin in the dao and we end in the dao. someday we will wake up to the fact we never left the dao except in our minds.

 

no, i am not a daoist. what am I...still evolving....

[wingzero]

Good karma + Bad karma to me would cancel each other out. It be neutral.

[ShaktiMama]

Good karma + Bad karma to me would cancel each other out. It be neutral.

 

 

it seems like that, doesn't it? What if I throw out there the concept of "wisdom erases karma?"

 

s

[Marblehead]

What if I throw out there the concept of "wisdom erases karma?"

 

s

 

Well, I like it regardless of how fitting it is in the discussion of the concept.

[ShaktiMama]

Well, I like it regardless of how fitting it is in the discussion of the concept.

 

I meant to throw it out into the ring for consideration not throw it away if you thought that I was saying that.

[zerostao]

would a highly evolved and refined wisdom act much like pure love?

[ShaktiMama]

would a highly evolved and refined wisdom act much like pure love?

 

i can tell you what I think and what I have experienced and known for years but first it is easier to walk together if you define your terms to me.

[Marblehead]

I meant to throw it out into the ring for consideration not throw it away if you thought that I was saying that.

 

No, no. You did good. And I do agree with the phrase. I, personally, don't want to talk about it though because I know that karma is an important concept for many people here and I wouldn't want to offend anyone through discussing the phrase.

 

But I will repeat this: Cause and effect rule!

[manitou]

Ah, you have thrown a monkey wrench into what I have been saying. And here is why:

 

I do hold to the concept of Chi energy. This energy has the polarities of Yin (negative) and Yang (positive). When we put out negative-dominant energies into the universe it does effect the universal energies to a certain degree. These energies effect those we have direct contact with.

 

I do believe that we effect others in this manner as well as what we do in the physical world. However, does negative energy come back to us if we emit negative energy? I don't know.

 

I align with you on this, Marbles. But I think the concept of karma connotates the equation of time. In reality, it's all Here and Now. Yesterday, today, and tomorrow are all one, with just the appearance of one day after the other. When one gets down to the essence in one's own heart, I don't think karma even comes into play anymore. Secondly, the concept of karma necessitates and distinction between good karma and bad karma, and it may be that such distinctions aren't real. How often has apparently 'bad' karma turned into apparently 'good' karma? All the time.