Do Shamans and tantric practioners dislike each other?

[ejr1069]

As I continue to explore different spiritual paths on my journey, it seems clear to me that certain groups tend to stay away from and or possibly even judge certain other groups. For example, the people in my life that I associate with shamanism tend to refer to tantric practioners as sex addicts. That seems awfully judgmental. A person in my Tibetan Buddhist group told me that shamans were freaks that use feathers, stones, superstitions and charms. That comment also seemed awfully judgmental. Of course, these people were speaking only for themselves and not for everyone that follows their same spiritual path. But it does make me wonder if these two groups tend to dislike each other.

 

If they do dislike each other, why? Don't all paths lead to the same place?

[Komako]

"Heaven and Earth have no preference.

 

A man may choose one over another

but to Heaven and Earth all are the same

The high, the low, the great, the small--

all are given light

all get a place to rest."

 

There are many ways for water to reach the ocean, yes?

 

You are on to something friend!

 

[manitou]

Hi,

I do follow a shamanic path, and I just think they all lead the same place, if we're impeccable with our intent and our character. The new age shamanism (ala Castaneda and those that followed) isn't so much about feathers, stones, superstitions, and charms; it's about Seeing.

 

I do use a staff in ceremony which does have feathers and charms on it. Sometimes I will make a circle of stones for ceremony. But the ceremony is done after I have Seen what the problem is, and the personality dynamics and outward conditions that have contributed to the problem.

 

As for the tantric tradition? I see no argument there either. Once in a great while the tantra thing will happen to Joe and I (he's a shaman as well); what an incredible surprise when that happens. I can certainly understand why people will manipulate their sexual will for the purposes of going to that place, and how that would lead to the top of the hill as well. I just don't see any argument with any of this....we're all marching up the same hill on slightly different paths to get to the top.

 

Please explain to your skeptical buddies that the ceremony is done for the purpose of bringing the kundalini energy up out of the earth. Certainly they will understand that. As to using power animals, and things like that? It goes to synchronicity. I carry a small statue of a heron in my medicine bag; have you ever seen a heron wading in a pool of water and going for a fish? His timing is impeccable, his vision is impeccable, his concentration is impeccable. I use a heron as a totem because of these qualities. Different animals have different qualities; if I want to do a remote 'healing ceremony' on my friend Mo who has cancer, sometimes I'll put my intent into becoming a crow and flying over to his town, landing on his window sill. Or I can be a snake in my mind, slithering down the street to go to someone else's house. It just depends on what you need.

 

Also, ceremony is done not so much to call some supernatural spirit down from out of the clouds; rather, it sort of 'sets' the intent into the soul of the person you're working with. It designates a beginning and an end to the Intent of the ceremony, and the Intent of the ceremony is to get the body to listen. After all, we do have the Grand Physician living within us. The body needs to know and believe this. Ceremony helps with that mindset.

 

The only path that is wrong, in my opinion, is the one that thinks it's the only right one.

[Otis]

Interesting stuff, Manitou. Thanks for sharing about your practices.

[Otis]

As I continue to explore different spiritual paths on my journey, it seems clear to me that certain groups tend to stay away from and or possibly even judge certain other groups.

Yeah, I think you're hitting on an unfortunate human trend. We want to distance ourselves from a group that is uncomfortably similar to ours. It's precisely the ones that we are almost identical with, that we hate the most.

 

This is especially obvious in war zones in which two groups, barely differentiable from outside, turn on each other savagely. Sunnis and shia. Hutus and Tutsis. Irish Catholics and Protestants, etc.

 

IME, on Taoist and Zen discussion groups, the vitriol is usually reserved for New Agers and hippies. I assume this is because they sport Yin/Yang symbols and talk about very similar concepts. But they are just different enough, and easy enough to dismiss, that they end up representing "the idiot stepchild of the family".

 

Not that a Taoist and a New Ager wouldn't have a lot to talk about. Not that there aren't a lot of very cool people who happen to be hippies. But I guess everybody needs someone to hate.

[ShaktiMama]

The authentic Tantric path is shamanistic and tantra is contained in shamanism. There is no separation between the two unless you talk about new age shamanism or neo-tantra.

 

Look into Bon Po for an example of a tantric/shaman path.

 

s

[manitou]

Interesting stuff, Manitou. Thanks for sharing about your practices.

My pleasure, Otis. I'm thrilled to know I have a practice, was never quite sure what everyone was talking about, lol.

[manitou]

The authentic Tantric path is shamanistic and tantra is contained in shamanism. There is no separation between the two unless you talk about new age shamanism or neo-tantra.

 

Look into Bon Po for an example of a tantric/shaman path.

 

s

 

Funny - I'm taking a vacation from reading for a while. Odd how those things go in spurts. It's almost like once nature becomes the teacher, and you let it have sway, it's almost a distraction to read someone else's realizations. Or at least, that's what I'm hoping. I supposed it could also just be a very clever arrogance combined with ennui .

[ShaktiMama]

Funny - I'm taking a vacation from reading for a while. Odd how those things go in spurts. It's almost like once nature becomes the teacher, and you let it have sway, it's almost a distraction to read someone else's realizations. Or at least, that's what I'm hoping. I supposed it could also just be a very clever arrogance combined with ennui .

 

S'oK. Bon Po is ancient pre Buddhist practice. Best to be able to pay attention cause stuff happens.

[Spectrum]

good Breath wor. Is like sex with the earth . There isn't any practice that Will remove you from the human condition. Where ever you go there you are.

[ejr1069]

The authentic Tantric path is shamanistic and tantra is contained in shamanism. There is no separation between the two unless you talk about new age shamanism or neo-tantra.

 

Look into Bon Po for an example of a tantric/shaman path.

 

s

 

Excellent suggestion. I have practiced with some Bob Buddhists for a short period. The practice was great, very energetic. But the group was cold. I didn't feel the love and heart centeredness that one normally feels from Shamans. But yes, Bonpo is Tibets oldest tradition and is recognized by the Dalai Lama as part of Tibetan Buddhism. Bonpo has a shamanic path as well as a tantric path.

[minkus]

The authentic Tantric path is shamanistic and tantra is contained in shamanism. There is no separation between the two unless you talk about new age shamanism or neo-tantra.

 

Look into Bon Po for an example of a tantric/shaman path.

 

s

 

Yes !

[三江源]

.

Edited December 1, 2015 by 三江源

[bodyoflight]

Yeah, I think you're hitting on an unfortunate human trend. We want to distance ourselves from a group that is uncomfortably similar to ours. It's precisely the ones that we are almost identical with, that we hate the most.

 

This is especially obvious in war zones in which two groups, barely differentiable from outside, turn on each other savagely. Sunnis and shia. Hutus and Tutsis. Irish Catholics and Protestants, etc.

 

IME, on Taoist and Zen discussion groups, the vitriol is usually reserved for New Agers and hippies. I assume this is because they sport Yin/Yang symbols and talk about very similar concepts. But they are just different enough, and easy enough to dismiss, that they end up representing "the idiot stepchild of the family".

 

Not that a Taoist and a New Ager wouldn't have a lot to talk about. Not that there aren't a lot of very cool people who happen to be hippies. But I guess everybody needs someone to hate.

 

I know someone who is a native american shaman, hindu tantric practitioner, taoist sorcerer and zen buddhist at the same time.

 

He is well-liked by everyone.

Edited April 28, 2011 by bodyoflight

[manitou]

I know someone who is a native american shaman, hindu tantric practitioner, taoist sorcerer and zen buddhist at the same time.

 

He is well-liked by everyone.

 

 

This reminds me of what this forum is all about. Seems like we're a huge hodge-podge of people who have landed within the Daoist realm, because of the non-structure.

[Machin Shin]

Todays insight from being.

The human realm and drinking.

People learn that the use of intoxicants can ease certain feelings and pressures, but the root desires still exist. Those desires weren't fulfilled in any meaningful way. They were consumed by common desires and any useful spiritual accomplishments are spilled and stained. Then they wake up the next day and wander back into the their conditioned existence looking for the next person to fill their needs and ease the troubled experiences of the past. They only accomplish repeating the cycle.

 

Shamans don't do this, but they do get drunk.

 

The Bon were very ignorant back in the day. Their kingdom was very violent.

 

 

remembering.....swords...horses were precious....literacy was a gift from the Buddha.

[RiverSnake]

This reminds me of what this forum is all about. Seems like we're a huge hodge-podge of people who have landed within the Daoist realm, because of the non-structure.

 

Haha so true. Got a laugh out of this one.

 

Thought sometimes i wish Taoism was not so much of an isolated and unstructured practice and that there were more form like that of Buddhism.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Tao Apprentice