Mo Pai and Immortality

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[h.uriahr]

Guys, watch page 7! The dude is clearing this thread of his inaccurate arguments!

 

 

Condensing breathing is in fact found on a beginning dvd in the 12 disc long form series. I believe the exact title is "breathing and mediation"". It's on the beginner section.

 

I've deleted my posts because the information means too much for me. I've avoided a few technical questions for obvious reasons like the one "what exactly is clyman missing or doing wrong"?

 

I'm not going to go through and give you technical things that he's missing. If you actually do train with a temple master then you'll get the answer yourself.

[Wells]

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Edited June 9, 2011 by Dorian Black

[Guest sykkelpump]

Interesting thread, guys. Though I could do without the drama.

 

Finding Master Liao's book Essence of Tai Chi at the campus bookstore was the catalyst for turning me from a dabbler in Tao Te Ching and a little Tai Chi to someone who seriously wanted to learn Taoist cultivation. And Nine Nights is absolutely wonderful. So I have a lot of respect for Master Liao.

 

Has anyone else noticed that the condensing breathing exercise in Master Liao's Tai Chi Classics / Essence of Tai Chi is, technically, a different exercise than what Clyman teaches?

 

Clyman's description of what you to is create an "internal vacuum", sucking in energy from all directions into the imaginary "center line" of the limbs and torso, and also the spine and dan tian.

 

Liao's description of the exercise, as far as I understand it is you take the chi that is already in the body and squeeze it into the bone marrow of the entire skeleton.

 

They might both have one particular effect of creating jing, but I am a technical details kind of guy and the technical details are totally different. I would be curious if anyone can clarify this for me.

 

Also, if anyone is interested in Clyman's stuff but finds it too pricey, check this out:

http://www.amazon.com/Chi-Kung-Bible-Self-Help-Mastering/dp/1460938267

 

As far as Master Liao's stuff goes, it seems pricey to me as well: $50-$100 for 30-60 minutes per DVD, and it is not completely clear how much actual neigong is on them. This has always been kind of a bummer to me. At least with Clyman's stuff you know what you are getting. (What a very Western attitude ) "Why the Dan Tian is the Center of Moving Meditation", "How to Locate the Dan Tian", "Advanced Principles of Moving Meditation", "How to Clean Your Energy", and "How to Restore Your Life Energy" seem to have some neigong from the descriptions, but who knows how much Master Liao actually gives away. If anyone has any of these DVDs and could give a review I would very much appreciate it. Dorian, take note, the description of How to Restore Your Life Energy mentions a form of condensing to create jing.

 

When you do condensing breathing right you will feel every cell in your body contracting and expanding with the in and out breath.You will also feel the energy being condensed into your body with force.the amount of chi/heat you are filling your body whole with is incredible.the pressure of the condensed chi creates an electric feeling in your arms legs and spine.This is as far as I got,The chi clearly feels like drawing in from outside of the body.I felt kind of like air coming against and through the skin and condensed inwards the center.This is a really HIHG level method if you can manage to do it.Many friends of mine tried it,they couldnt feel anything.I come at a certain level and then I suddenly lost the ability to suck the chi in.Wasted years of trying to relearn it.ANYBODY have any ideas or tips why I lost this ability?? I think the energy channels have to be open in an certain way before skin breathing is possible.And in my case I kind of blocked it for some reason.Thats my only theory.Other theorys are very velcome

[Wells]

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Edited June 9, 2011 by Dorian Black

[Creation]

Read this thread carefully and you will know the true meaning of condensing breathing that Liao doesn't say in "Taichi Classics". Although he comes A LITTLE BIT MORE clear in "Nine Nights"!

Here you speak as if you know the true meaning of condensing, yet in other posts you are trying to find more information on it.

 

I have several. Good for background info and moving meditation, nothing about powerful energy work or Nei Kung.

No condensing breathing, basic path training, MCO or other of the powerful ones. Just beginner's stuff!

In particular, what is on "How to Locate the Dan Tian"? I was curious if it goes into detail about this type of thing:

 

look man ill just tell you like this.

 

1. you do not go looking for your lower dan tian it should tell you where its at.

2. after your lower dan tian tells you where its at and it should start to spin.

 

this is what you are looking for in lower dan tian training.

 

how can you breathe into the dan tian if you dont know where it is?

 

anyone who tells you different doesnt know the full truth.

and why?.......

 

because with the right training a student's lower dan tian will start to vibrate and spin within the first hour of the first day with the right training.

when you take the right posture you will instantly feel where your lower dan tian really is.

[Creation]

Nice to have you join the discussion Creation.

I find this is good for beginning.

https://taichitaocenter.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=6

 

The second Disc about the Tai Chi ball has been teached to me by the man who teach me the Qigong by the longevity god, surely it is different than the one on the DVD.

But he also say that the longevity gods is to cultivate Dantien first to have.

 

Do Gary teach a variation of the Tai Chi Ball?

 

Q

I have these DVDs and I don't recall them containing anything that I would classify as neigong. It's been a couple years since I watched them though.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Creation

[Wells]

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Edited June 9, 2011 by Dorian Black

[Creation]

When you do condensing breathing right you will feel every cell in your body contracting and expanding with the in and out breath.You will also feel the energy being condensed into your body with force.the amount of chi/heat you are filling your body whole with is incredible.the pressure of the condensed chi creates an electric feeling in your arms legs and spine.This is as far as I got,The chi clearly feels like drawing in from outside of the body.I felt kind of like air coming against and through the skin and condensed inwards the center.This is a really HIHG level method if you can manage to do it.Many friends of mine tried it,they couldnt feel anything.I come at a certain level and then I suddenly lost the ability to suck the chi in.Wasted years of trying to relearn it.ANYBODY have any ideas or tips why I lost this ability?? I think the energy channels have to be open in an certain way before skin breathing is possible.And in my case I kind of blocked it for some reason.Thats my only theory.Other theorys are very velcome

You mean Clyman's version of condensing I presume?

 

Has anyone had similar experiences with Liao's method? Because in his book he does not mention sucking in from outside the body. The method he described sounds like a cut and dried bone marrow qigong method to me. Maybe the sucking happens automatically? My body says no to trying to compress anything into my bones at this point, so I wouldn't know.

 

I suspect Clyman modified the practice to do two things at once: get more chi and compress it to get jing, seeing as he was trying to make a self-contained qigong system with no fluff and no prerequisite tai chi training.

 

I'm curious, how much did you train to get the results that you got, and what were the circumstances surrounding your "losing it"? And can you still suck in chi, just without all the dramatic sensations, or do you really feel like you can't suck in chi anymore. Because all the dramatic sensations could have been blockages clearing, and when you got more clear, they went away.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Creation

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Creation]

Then what of these DVD has some?

 

Q

That's what I'm wondering.

 

The ones you mentioned are the only ones I own. I have been tight on money so I haven't wanted to buy anymore unless I knew what they had on them.

 

The ones I mentioned in my first post seemed like they might have neigong, especially "How to Locate the Dan Tian", so I was hoping someone who had seen them could say. Dorian still hasn't said exactly which of them he has seen.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Creation

[Guest sykkelpump]

You mean Clyman's version of condensing I presume?

 

Has anyone had similar experiences with Liao's method? Because in his book he does not mention sucking in from outside the body. The method he described sounds like a cut and dried bone marrow qigong method to me. Maybe the sucking happens automatically? My body says no to trying to compress anything into my bones at this point, so I wouldn't know.

 

I suspect Clyman modified the practice to do two things at once: get more chi and compress it to get jing, seeing as he was trying to make a self-contained qigong system with no fluff and no prerequisite tai chi training.

 

I'm curious, how much did you train to get the results that you got, and what were the circumstances surrounding your "losing it"? And can you still suck in chi, just without all the dramatic sensations, or do you really feel like you can't suck in chi anymore. Because all the dramatic sensations could have been blockages clearing, and when you got more clear, they went away.

I got the results very fast,first week or so.being doing some qi gong before i got the Clyman vhs and the book.I belive drinking had something to do with it.its after all weak nerv poison.I can still suck chi but to a very low degree.and it is not progressing.Well anyway I dont try often,I concentrate on meditation now.Actualy white skeleton meditation has same benefits.Only diffrence is you dont use in breath to make the vakumm.its created by the mind.No it was not blocks clearing.Its was more like my body was blocked in some way.It wouldnt just open up and let the mind suck chi in anymore.

[Guest sykkelpump]

How does condensing breathing feels like for you Dorian black or others who trains it?

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Wells]

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Edited June 9, 2011 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

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Edited June 9, 2011 by Dorian Black

[Guest sykkelpump]

during:

-getting cold because the chi goes to the core + sweating

-feeling vibration in body parts

 

after:

-maybe hearing humming

-maybe waking up at night with vibrating spine

 

No pleasurable feelings when chi condensed in the spine? or pleasure in the whole body?

 

I never felt cold,EXTREMELY hot.So hot I couldnt sleep often

Edited May 5, 2011 by sykkelpump

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Wells]

.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Dorian Black

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Creation]

Hi Creation. My thought: you have many other body parts to energize before the qi will condense and enter the bones.

Well, my body said no because I was unable to do it without mental tension, and any chi manipulation, but especially compressing, with a tense mind is stupid.

 

Now, even if this was not the case, there is the issue of what do I really need to be doing right now, and yes indeed compressing chi into the bones is not it. But generally speaking, I am interested in bone techniques as a way to get in touch with, purify, and tonify the water element. I have been been sticking with bone awareness and gentle bone breathing.

 

Did you have a particular body part in mind that you were thinking of?

Edited May 5, 2011 by Creation

[Iskote]

Warning Bell # 1:

About Waysun Liao - Facebook

Hmm, learned from a nameless "wandering taoist" (in Taiwan no less) and learned in a nameless

"Taoist temple" since he was 12. Anyone have any names and details to go with this?

 

Warning Bell # 2:

A quick search on Waysun Liao to try to find some details of his past training:

http://www.marnixwells.com/?p=267

Hmm, so back in 1969 Liao Weishan, was a student at the Political University in Muzha in Taiwan,

and he studied "south Fujiàn style of Springing Crane (Zonghè)" when he was growing up.

"(In 1970) Liao pointed out to Marnix the thirty-four powers or energies (jìng/jìn) described in Chén Yanlín’s 1936 Tàijíquán True Transmission. Liào was to translate these in Tai Chi Classics (1977, reprinted by Shambala)."

Yep, sounds like the same Liao alright, but he had studied Springing Crane, which also has a form of push hands, AKA sticking hands. May well have had some qigong or neigong training as well in this system.

"He eventually set up a Taichi Center in Illinois under the name Master Waysun Liao."

Seems to be the same Liao, except his specialty was apparently Springing Crane back then,

not "Temple Tai Chi".

No mention of a "wandering Taoist" or "Taoist Temple" either back in those university days either.

Maybe he neglected to mention it...

 

Warning Bell # 3:

Gregory James Temple Tai Chi

I'll let this speak for itself.

 

Warning Bell # 4:

Asking big bucks to learn his tai chi system from DVD's?

It looks like quite the money making machine...

 

Sorry, but 4 warning bells with just a few quick searches is a lot.

This is not to say Mr. Liao does not have some real training and does not have some real skills,

but the whole background story here seems to be at least questionable.

 

Seeking power and super abilities will not likely ever lead anyone down a real spiritual path,

but it might lead you into troubles or disappointments you may have never dreamed of.

If it goes against good sense and all the facts don't add up, then something may well

not be right. When we are ruled by our desires and ego we willingly blind ourself.

 

Well, it seemed to me at least someone needed to at least raise some of these obvious questions.

If answers arise that can withstand some scrutiny then at least a person is making a more

informed decision, but if a person keeps their self-imposed blinders on regardless of the facts

they may well be opening the door to some hard lessons further down the road.

At least the matter has been raised. Everyone has to make their own decision.

Ok, I have spoken my piece.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Iskote

[Wells]

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Edited June 9, 2011 by Dorian Black

[minkus]

Believe nothing of what you read and only half of what you see

 

Especially on the world wide web hehe.

 

Cheers !

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend