Mo Pai and Immortality

[MERCELESS ONE]

Why do people throw around terms such as "level [x]" as though it's some objective ranking? I know it comes from Kostas' book, but the whole "level" bit, according even to Kostas' book, is local to the Mo Pai system.

 

I know of at least one system (that is not Mo Pai) in which the levels/progression is not the same as the Mo Pai.

 

I mean...the whole "he's level [x]" and "he's level [y]" bit makes this sound like an RPG or something. q.q

 

its in the design! and the philosophy of the systems that use compression. lvl does sound verry rpg-ish but i think its a good way to explain it. i use the terminology because i understand why it is and what it explains. i cant speak for others though. take a pyramid and turn it upside down. the bottom is lvl 4, yin yang kung. double that and your at the next level. all the way up to 72. level is used to explain energy density and level of power. each time your density goes up there are new abilities and powers availible to you. and its all due to density of lifeforce energy compressed in the body. level is just a way of explain this.

[MERCELESS ONE]

And you still insist that those numbers are a guide in understanding Qi? Karamba Karambita!

no mr impossible. it explains qi density and ability!

[MERCELESS ONE]

And you still insist that those numbers are a guide in understanding Qi? Karamba Karambita!

 

to understand as i do, you have to walk my path, i dont accuse i practice and understand! if you dont want to do that and help others leave us all alone. i dont see you putting up any usefull information.

[Isimsiz Biri]

no mr impossible. it explains qi density and ability!

 

Density? Wowww?

 

Ability? Could you just explain which ability you understand from you e-v calculations. For instance, level 30 you know already, which abilities does the practitoner have at level 30?

[Thunder_Gooch]

I just wanted to let you know I heard back from one prominent Taoist scholar, author of many books, and head of their department at a major university.

 

 

Hi

 

No, I've never heard of Lei shan dao.

 

 

I can't put their details out in public but screencaps of email will be made available to anyone who wants it via PM.

[effilang]

I just wanted to let you know I heard back from one prominent Taoist scholar, author of many books, and head of their department at a major university.

 

 

 

I can't put their details out in public but screencaps of email will be made available to anyone who wants it via PM.

 

What was discussed in this email Pie? Anything that can help a person with their practice?

[Thunder_Gooch]

What was discussed in this email Pie? Anything that can help a person with their practice?

 

I quoted their response above. They had never heard of lei shan dao or the lightning/thunder path.

 

Nothing else was discussed.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Dear More Pie Guy,

 

I have to still insist on my knowledge. David Verdesi did not coin the Six Great Dao terminology. (Lei Shan Dao, Miao Tong Dao, Tong Ling Dao, Yang Shen Dao, Jin Dan Dao, Xia Mian Dao) This is secret inner circle terminology, No Western or Chinese Academician will hear about it.

 

Best Regards,

Edited November 25, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Thunder_Gooch]

Dear More Pie Guy,

 

I have to still insist on my knowledge. David Verdesi did not coin the Six Great Dao terminology. (Lei Shan Dao, Miao Tong Dao, Tong Ling Dao, Yang Shen Dao, Jin Dan Dao, Xia Mian Dao) This is secret inner circle terminology, No Western or Chinese Academician will hear about it.

 

Best Regards,

 

If Chang himself the head of a "lei shan dao" school and prominent Taoist scholars have never heard of it, I think it's reasonable to assume the term is recently coined.

 

 

[Isimsiz Biri]

If Chang himself the head of a "lei shan dao" school and prominent Taoist scholars have never heard of it, I think it's reasonable to assume the term is recently coined.

 

Sir,

 

If you refer to "Magus of Java", Chang Shifu did not even accept that he was a Daoist. He said he was the master of a kungfu school. Chang Shifu did not have any relations with Longhushan since Grandmaster Liao left China years ago he met Chang Shifu. Mo-Pai stayed isolated. And as far as we know, Chang Shifu did not or could not find masters like himself in China to develop a mutual exchange of information.

 

Although I asked them, you are not mentioning the names of these prominent scholars. Let me ask you a different question, does any prominent scholar know the existence of Mo-Pai before "Magus of Java" was published? Yes of course, all that prominent top secret scholars knew about Mo-Tzu, but did any one of them know about Mo-Pai, 72 levels, and Zhang Sanfeng had been the level 72 head master of Mo-Pai? Did they? Those prominent scholars know nothing about inner circle Daoism. Thus. you can not show their words as a proof for your claim.

 

Best Regards,

Edited November 25, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[h.uriahr]

 

 

Sir,

 

If you refer to "Magus of Java", Chang Shifu did not even accept that he was a Daoist. He said he was the master of a kungfu school. Chang Shifu did not have any relations with Longhushan since Grandmaster Liao left China years ago he met Chang Shifu. Mo-Pai stayed isolated. And as far as we know, Chang Shifu did not or could not find masters like himself in China to develop a mutual exchange of information.

 

Although I asked them, you are not mentioning the names of these prominent scholars. Let me ask you a different question, does any prominent scholar know the existence of Mo-Pai before "Magus of Java" was published? Yes of course, all that prominent top secret scholars knew about Mo-Tzu, but did any one of them know about Mo-Pai, 72 levels, and Zhang Sanfeng had been the level 72 head master of Mo-Pai? Did they? Those prominent scholars know nothing about inner circle Daoism. Thus. you can not show their words as a proof for your claim.

 

Best Regards,

 

 

 

Ok so how about this. You name the alleged "yin yang gong" masters that you know and MPG can name the scholars? Sounds like a good deal to me considering you mostly hijack and derail most threads

[templetao]

I dont beleive in the term leishandao because thunder wakes up true nature, lightening reveals true self.

 

I think there is some confusion because there are schools that practice thunder magic.

 

There are two types distinct schools of thunder magic training: Internal

Thunder Magic (Thunder Magic used for

healing self and others) and External Thunder

Magic (Thunder Magic used for absorbing celestial

power and for Exorcism).

 

 

The original 7 thunder schools were such

 

1. Sanskrit Primordial Breath Thunder Magic

Sect: This system was used by the Qing Wei

sects, and claims the legendary female Daoist

Master Wei Huacun as its founder. Master Wei

Huacun is also considered to be the original founder of the Mao Shan sect. It is included

the following three Daoist schools:

• The Dong Zhen Hun Tun Thunder Magic

Sect (Mao Shan). This system was developed

and practiced in the South of China.

• The Qing Wei Thunder Magic sect (Hua

Shan and Fujian). This system was developed

and practiced in western China during the

early Song Dynasty period (420 - 478 AD.).

• The Ling Bao Thunder Magic sect (Gezao

Shan). This system was developed in the

South of China.

 

2. The Qing Xu Thunder Magic Sect: This system

was used by the Tai-Yi sect.

 

3. The Huo Shi Thunder Magic Sect: The Fire

Master Thunder Magic system is attributed

to Daoist master Wang Zi Hua. It flourished

during the mid-Tang Dynasty (618-907 A.D.)

and was believed to have originated on the

Southern peak of Heng Shan and on Mount

Tian Tai in South-East China.

 

4. The Shen Xiao Thunder Magic Sect: This system

was attributed to Daoist master Wang

Wen Qing (born in 1093), and it was used by

the Shen Xiao order, headed by Daoist master

Lin Lingsi.

 

5. The Qing Ming Thunder Magic Sect: This

system was developed in China during the

Southern Song Dynasty period (1127 - 1279

A.D.).

 

6. The Yu Fu Thunder Magic Sect: This system

was developed and used by the Zheng Yi

Celestial Master sect in Longhu Shan.

 

7. The Bei Ji Thunder Magic Sect: This system

was developed and used by the Quen Zhen

Pole Star sect in Wudang Shan.

 

 

Also i think it was mo pai level 22 that you attained the dragon climbing clouds skill.

 

Even in external thunder magic they channel the power of external thunder into the body and use it to light the cauldron in the ldt. This follows what i learned from other sources. In temple style only the awakened shen can awaken the the power at the ldt and when i spoke to verdesi's people they told me "that only when the light of shen goes down to the ldt can the real dantian start to be cultivated."

[Thunder_Gooch]

Ok so how about this. You name the alleged "yin yang gong" masters that you know and MPG can name the scholars? Sounds like a good deal to me considering you mostly hijack and derail most threads

 

 

All you have to do is send me a pm, but I am not going to post screen caps of private emails in a public forum, that would be rude.

[Practitioner]

Personally I'd have to go with MPG. the opinion of someone who is valued very low is these forums (Verdesi) without any other reliable external sources versus the opinion of a life-long daoist scholar and author of some of the best-regarded books on daoism is well, shoddy support to the contrary really. Unless you have better sources than just what Verdesi has said, and/or achieved lineage holders who openly claim to be part of "lei shan dao"?

 

Come to mention, Verdesi did mention in his website that he was able to unify yin and yang and give people electrical shocks. Did he ever do that to you?

[YMWong]

Come to mention, Verdesi did mention in his website that he was able to unify yin and yang and give people electrical shocks. Did he ever do that to you?

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/asia/story/chinese-band-thunderbolt-craziness-performs-electrifying-music-20121119

 

 

YM

[Isimsiz Biri]

Ok so how about this. You name the alleged "yin yang gong" masters that you know and MPG can name the scholars? Sounds like a good deal to me considering you mostly hijack and derail most threads

 

I did not derail any thread. In fact, I am posting in very few threads. But if you think that I hijack and derail threads, do not read threads I am posting. There are many other threads out there, go and read them.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Isimsiz Biri]

Personally I'd have to go with MPG. the opinion of someone who is valued very low is these forums (Verdesi) without any other reliable external sources versus the opinion of a life-long daoist scholar and author of some of the best-regarded books on daoism is well, shoddy support to the contrary really. Unless you have better sources than just what Verdesi has said, and/or achieved lineage holders who openly claim to be part of "lei shan dao"?

 

Come to mention, Verdesi did mention in his website that he was able to unify yin and yang and give people electrical shocks. Did he ever do that to you?

 

I am not in a position to defend David Verdesi in every aspect. I know that he did not coin these terms. Full Stop. Life long daoist scholars and authors of the best regarded books knew nothing about the existence of Mo-Pai and Zhang Sanfeng was the head master of Mo-Pai and he was level 72 before "Magus of Java" was published. If you went to these scholars and authors before Magus of Java and asked if they ever heard Mo-Pai, they would say they never heard it. Then you would decide there is nothing as Mo-Pai, Mo-Tzu was a philosopher only. They would say Zhang Shangfeng is the founder of Taijiquan in the legends only, So you would think that Zhang Shangfeng was a guy with fa jing and dim mak only.

 

I did not see David after 2007, at that time he did not reach Yin-Yang Gong. I have no further first hand information about this subject. Today, I will never allow anybody with Yin-Yang Gong to give an electric shock to me.

[Isimsiz Biri]

http://www.straitsti...-music-20121119

 

 

YM

 

I do not listen to that type of music. I prefer Sufi music which is best for heart. Especially the voice of the instrument called Ney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ney)

[Aaron]

I did not derail any thread. In fact, I am posting in very few threads. But if you think that I hijack and derail threads, do not read threads I am posting. There are many other threads out there, go and read them.

 

As an outside observer, I will concur that you do hijack threads. It seems that you are more interested in talking about what you want to talk about than what others do. But, as you said, people can ignore you if they so choose. I do, however I didn't want those few who recognized this to believe they were paranoid, so I thought I might concur so their observations are validated.

 

Aaron

[Isimsiz Biri]

As an outside observer, I will concur that you do hijack threads. It seems that you are more interested in talking about what you want to talk about than what others do. But, as you said, people can ignore you if they so choose. I do, however I didn't want those few who recognized this to believe they were paranoid, so I thought I might concur so their observations are validated.

 

Aaron

 

Dear Aaron,

 

I respect your views because you have written them with Adab (http://www.spiritual...es.php?id=17521) (http://en.wikipedia....iki/Adab_(Islam)) Come to me with Adab, even if you disagree with me, even if you do not like me, or find me whatever you want to be, does not matter, Just state your ideas, views with Adab, you are always welcome.

 

Excellent post although I disagree. Thank you from my heart.

 

Best Regards,

 

P.S. I really like your nickname. I have strong bonds with Prophet Aaron, brother of Prophet Moses.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Isimsiz Biri]

I dont beleive in the term leishandao because thunder wakes up true nature, lightening reveals true self.

 

I think there is some confusion because there are schools that practice thunder magic.

 

There are two types distinct schools of thunder magic training: Internal

Thunder Magic (Thunder Magic used for

healing self and others) and External Thunder

Magic (Thunder Magic used for absorbing celestial

power and for Exorcism).

 

 

The original 7 thunder schools were such

 

1. Sanskrit Primordial Breath Thunder Magic

Sect: This system was used by the Qing Wei

sects, and claims the legendary female Daoist

Master Wei Huacun as its founder. Master Wei

Huacun is also considered to be the original founder of the Mao Shan sect. It is included

the following three Daoist schools:

• The Dong Zhen Hun Tun Thunder Magic

Sect (Mao Shan). This system was developed

and practiced in the South of China.

• The Qing Wei Thunder Magic sect (Hua

Shan and Fujian). This system was developed

and practiced in western China during the

early Song Dynasty period (420 - 478 AD.).

• The Ling Bao Thunder Magic sect (Gezao

Shan). This system was developed in the

South of China.

 

2. The Qing Xu Thunder Magic Sect: This system

was used by the Tai-Yi sect.

 

3. The Huo Shi Thunder Magic Sect: The Fire

Master Thunder Magic system is attributed

to Daoist master Wang Zi Hua. It flourished

during the mid-Tang Dynasty (618-907 A.D.)

and was believed to have originated on the

Southern peak of Heng Shan and on Mount

Tian Tai in South-East China.

 

4. The Shen Xiao Thunder Magic Sect: This system

was attributed to Daoist master Wang

Wen Qing (born in 1093), and it was used by

the Shen Xiao order, headed by Daoist master

Lin Lingsi.

 

5. The Qing Ming Thunder Magic Sect: This

system was developed in China during the

Southern Song Dynasty period (1127 - 1279

A.D.).

 

6. The Yu Fu Thunder Magic Sect: This system

was developed and used by the Zheng Yi

Celestial Master sect in Longhu Shan.

 

7. The Bei Ji Thunder Magic Sect: This system

was developed and used by the Quen Zhen

Pole Star sect in Wudang Shan.

 

 

Also i think it was mo pai level 22 that you attained the dragon climbing clouds skill.

 

Even in external thunder magic they channel the power of external thunder into the body and use it to light the cauldron in the ldt. This follows what i learned from other sources. In temple style only the awakened shen can awaken the the power at the ldt and when i spoke to verdesi's people they told me "that only when the light of shen goes down to the ldt can the real dantian start to be cultivated."

 

Very valuable information.

 

Dear Templetao,

 

I have very limited knowledge about the subject. I have read the "Taoist Master Chuang" (http://www.amazon.co...o/dp/0967794803) in 2006, I do not remember in every detail, but as far as I know, these schools are doing religious activities for funeral, wedding, birth, talismans, fu, common Taoism for short. When we speak six great dao, we are talking about esoteric, inner circle Daoism. Thus, they are irrelevant. If I am wrong, please correct me.

 

So Lei Shan Dao, Miao Tong Dao, Tong Ling Dao, Yang Shen Dao, Jin Dan Dao, Xia Mian Dao are top secret, known by very few people daos. May be, I am just speculating, there are some connections between a school you mentioned above and six daos? God Almighty knows, not myself.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Guest allan]

Dear More Pie Guy,

 

I have to still insist on my knowledge. David Verdesi did not coin the Six Great Dao terminology. (Lei Shan Dao, Miao Tong Dao, Tong Ling Dao, Yang Shen Dao, Jin Dan Dao, Xia Mian Dao) This is secret inner circle terminology, No Western or Chinese Academician will hear about it.

 

Best Regards,

 

 

A few members of integrity and knowledge took a month or two to finally convinced members that Sean Denty was selling snake oil for Verdisi, lest they get conned.

 

When you do not even have the caliber of Denty, you want to act as the new agent to sell the same snake oil? Please refrain from doing so, since the forum has had enough of Verdisi and his ilk.

[Isimsiz Biri]

A few members of integrity and knowledge took a month or two to finally convinced members that Sean Denty was selling snake oil for Verdisi, lest they get conned.

 

When you do not even have the caliber of Denty, you want to act as the new agent to sell the same snake oil? Please refrain from doing so, since the forum has had enough of Verdisi and his ilk.

 

Dear Allan,

 

My recommendation for you, if you will post something in the 18th page of any thread, please read the previous pages. Previously, I had said:

 

I left David Verdesi years ago. Besides, I would not recommend anybody to practice with David Verdesi. But I am a Muslim. I have to be fair. I can not let you say David Verdesi coined the term although I know he did not. My point is this simple.

 

I said numerous times, Neigong training of Mo-Pai and other Lei Shan Dao schools, including David Verdesi's, carry very serious risks for the health of the student. Thus, I would not recommend any body to practice with David Verdesi and/or Mo-Pai.

 

I do not understand why there is always somebody making unnecessary comments about my posts. Is this a general rule or is it related with me only?

 

Dorian Black,

 

Do not worry. I am not your competitor. I am not the commercial advertisement agency of David Verdesi, whereas, you are definitely the commercial advertisement agency of Garry J. Clyman. Definitely, Gary J. Clyman is the greatest Neigong Master on this planet called Earth. (You may use this last sentence in your commercials, I will not charge anything for copyright, do not worry)

Edited November 27, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[YMWong]

I can not let you say David Verdesi coined the term although I know he did not. My point is simple

 

No, your point is "wrong" not "simple"

 

You don't "know", you have "heard from him" which is a very different thing

 

You cannot possibly ask people to disprove your point, when you make an assumption you are the one who has to back it up with external validations. If your only validation is "David said so" I am afraid you should stop yelling at the wind

 

YM

Edited November 27, 2012 by YMWong

[Isimsiz Biri]

No, your point is "wrong" not "simple"

You don't "know", you have "heard from him" which is a very different thing

You cannot possibly ask people to disprove your point, when you make an assumption you are the one who has to back it up with external validations. If your only validation is "David said so" I am afraid you should stop yelling at the wind

YM

 

Dear YMWong,

 

Until now, the only proof that has been used to prove that David has coined these terminology are the words of a guy with a nickname, "tongkosong". This same tongkosong described the external dan made of elementary mercury as a "metal ball bearing". I held that dan with my own hands, it was like an oval shaped stone. You can refer to this link for the approximate shape of that external dan (http://www.roblox.co...tem?id=53635367) Please look at the link to see what a ball bearing looks like (http://en.wikipedia....ki/Ball_bearing) There is no similarity at all. Reevaluate the reliability and precision of this tongkosong again.

 

Now you want me to believe this tongkosong. This is his word against my word. Tongkosong is saying David has coined the terminology, I am saying he has not. I am preferring to believe my words. Sorry.

 

I already replied the claims that "Chang Shifu does not know Lei Shan Dao term" or "Prominent Scholars never heard of it" you may refer to my previous posts.

 

I can not understand why we are stuck to this very minor point.

 

There is a lineage which uses Jin Dan Dao. That is for sure, I have seen undeniable proof with my own eyes.

 

There are lineages which uses of Xia Mian Dao, masters of these schools are real shapeshifters. You can trace the existence of them even in literature.

 

There are lineages who use Yang Shen Dao, masters of these lineages make their Yang Shen to be seen by everybody. (Refer to "Opening the Dragon Gate: The Making of a Modern Taoist Wizard" (http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Dragon-Gate-Making-Modern/dp/0804831858) Wang Liping and his masters are capable of producing a Yang Shen for instance, and David Verdesi did not write this book)

 

These are information I know, some of them from David but some of them independent of David. Yet the sum of all these info is in parallel with great six dao terminology. David is not the only source of information for me. Please do not ask what those other sources are, I can not tell.

 

If you still want to believe that David has coined the terms, believe it. I do not want to spend time on this subject any more.

 

Best Regards,

Edited November 27, 2012 by Recep Ivedik