Mo Pai and Immortality

[Thunder_Gooch]

May I ask who is the source of this information? As far as I know, you are not a native Chinese speaker. Even if your Chinese is fluent, it is very possible that you may not be aware of the terminology.

 

Feel free to contact Dr. Verdesi yourself and ask him about it.

 

 

雷 léi thunder

 

 

 

閃 shǎn lightning

 

 

 

 

道 Tao/Dao 'way', 'path', 'route', or sometimes more loosely, 'doctrine' or 'principle'

 

 

 

Verdesi created this name to categorize schools which work with both yin and yang energies.

 

 

[email protected]

 

http://www.davidverd...g/contacts.html

Edited November 22, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Isimsiz Biri]

Feel free to contact Dr. Verdesi yourself and ask him about it.

雷 léi thunder

閃 shǎn lightning

道 Tao/Dao 'way', 'path', 'route', or sometimes more loosely, 'doctrine' or 'principle'

Verdesi created this name to categorize schools which work with both yin and yang energies.

[email protected]

http://www.davidverd...g/contacts.html

 

Sir, I know him personally already. No need for me to ask. The six great dao is not David's invention. You are not replying my simple question but telling me to ask David. You said that David has invented "Lei Shan Dao" term. And I am saying no he has not. Do you have any proof, for instance an article or a letter from David Verdesi that states he had coined the term himself? If yes, either post it here or send me via PM. If not, then explain how do you know that Lei Shan Dao term was not used before David?

 

I also already know the meanings of Lei, Shan and Dao but thank you anyway for posting here. At least others will learn too.

 

Other schools also work with Yin and Yang energies, not just Lei Shan Dao schools.

 

Best Regards

Edited November 22, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[effilang]

I keep reading that only systems like Mo Pai train the practitioner to merge Yin and Yang, or Yin Yang Gong, whereas traditional Taoist alchemical practice does not. This however is false. The basis of immortality even with the traditional Taoist alchemy is that of merging Yang with Yin so that when the body dies the consciousness and eternal soul leave together.

 

One can then manifest Into whatever physical form they wish, even their prior body. The mco is probably the safest path to alchemical work and immortality than any of us could ever pursue. It is not just about compressing qi ad infinitum, because along the way there are so many manifestations and processes that take place, both safe and dangerous, that if all u have in ur head is compression you will be in serious trouble.

 

To this extent I agree with what Merciless says. After a certain level if one does not have the instructions memorized, he must project to learn them from a higher being. I disagree with him however in saying that you must alter the path of nature. In fact you need only reverse it.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Ill put in end to this leishandao word. i called the verdesi foundation. And i asked them what they meant by leishandao and this was what i was told. "The only real difference to know whether your practicing leishandao or not is but what level of stillness your practice produces. Meaning that if your inner practice takes you into deeper levels of stillness then it is a shen development path.

So heres the funny thing so lets say you practice a path that produces yin yang kung but it also produces a deep level of stillness then it would not be considered leishandao path.

The reasoning behind this they told me was that systems like mo pai dont require deep stillness to do the meds and attain."

Now i considered this bs. All deep alchemy has dan development and shen cultivation you really cant separate them in my opinion.

 

I do not know who made this reply from Verdesi side but assuming that templetao is telling the truth, the reply is not projecting the reality at all.

However, Lei Shan Dao, Miao Tong Dao, Tong Ling Dao, Jin Dan Dao, Yang Shen Dao and Xia Mian Dao schools do exist. Also, some schools combine some of these Daos. So the story is rather complicated. And even David could tell just a few sentences about some schools, that is all, there is no detailed information.

 

Mo-Pai, being a pure Lei Shan Dao school is the only school documented to Westerners actually.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Fū Yue]

Fū Yue, on 21 November 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

 

No, I havent read the book so I don't remember john changs account in the spirit world. I have my own accounts to go on.

 

YOU: You're not correct.

-

ME: proove it!

-

YOU: 100% of the knowledge is in front of you right now, the only question is whether you can recognize it for what it is.

-

ME: if you have truly astroprojected you wouldnt make that statement! thats like saying all the knowledge about space can be gathered by not going there! that space is like earth if you had been there you would know that they are totally diferent places. this one and that one. different laws different effects ect..

 

YOU: Following nature's example is the way, and all biological and 'spiritual' knowledge is a natural permutation of what the universe is doing right now, the transmutation of the various phases of the elements, the cycle of the seasons and the harmony between polarity.

-

ME: its not following natures example its altering natures example , thats the way, and knowing fanciful words wont teach you how to use natures example to become immortal.

 

YOU: There's no use projecting to fantastical lands if you cannot even understand how enmeshed your being is in the natural elements around you, because if you can understand that then you already know the path to immortality, which is one of return, not leaving.

-

ME: its all the use you need. by projecting you understand what happens when you leave. and thats how you learn and understand how to get back. otherwise you'll leave and never know how to get back. and by exploring the other side you learn more about this one not the latter. thing is it takes more than indulging in philosophy of spirit and being. it takes knowledge and understanding. knowledge one can only get by doing, by going, by experiencing.

 

 

Merceless One, do not be presumptuous. I am not speaking of philosophical musings, I am speaking from experience. I have died to this world while alive, and come back. I have ascended and descended through the various realms of existence. My awareness survived re-entry into the womb. I don't have anything to prove to you, the truth speaks for itself. I'm only here to help.

 

And the truth is that nature is already perfect, and by making our selves identical to the celestial design we are able to enter the Tao even in normal existence, where nothing is gained or lost, and there are no ends or beginnings. By making our awareness in the likeness of the universe, we are able to recognize and follow the truth even through endless transformations and death itself. Reversing the outflow of light to return to the unfathomable nature is the whole path. You don't become immortal, because your nature is already deathless. Manifestation is deviation from the source.

 

Self realization is far more important than learning to astral project. If you have self realization, power will result naturally, it will all come together. You will naturally assimilate the knowledge from those who have gone before you, in dream and wakefulness. You don't need to 'go out there' to see the ascended masters. They are right here, in the space between these words. They live inside of you. But if you pursue power ignorant of the truth of being, you will only encounter obstacles and blank spots in your cultivation, because you will unconsciously create barriers between yourself and the beings you are trying to learn from.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I don't believe astral projection is "out there" / I don't know if there is anything "out there" really haha... it appears to be...

 

Everything is within, I wonder.

 

I think meditation leads to the in version of the universe...

 

So the universe appears within rather than without and that perhaps is...

Edited November 22, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[templetao]

I do not know who made this reply from Verdesi side but assuming that templetao is telling the truth, the reply is not projecting the reality at all.

However, Lei Shan Dao, Miao Tong Dao, Tong Ling Dao, Jin Dan Dao, Yang Shen Dao and Xia Mian Dao schools do exist. Also, some schools combine some of these Daos. So the story is rather complicated. And even David could tell just a few sentences about some schools, that is all, there is no detailed information.

 

Mo-Pai, being a pure Lei Shan Dao school is the only school documented to Westerners actually.

 

Im not questioning the existence of other taoist paths my question to the Verdesi foundation was what do you consider leishandao?

 

What i posted above was my response. i didnt agree but thats ok. Now i did get some useful information from the discussion as well.

 

So ill extend my question to you. What do you consider to be leishandao?

[Wells]

If you have self realization, power will result naturally, it will all come together

 

Aaaah...the "just awake to the power & glory you already are/have"-delusion again!

[Fū Yue]

Aaaah...the "just awake to the power & glory you already are/have"-delusion again!

 

I said self realization, not self contemplation. Experiential knowledge, not sitting back and pretending that you aren't living in delusion, but cutting through it completely with a powerful and concentrated mind. 'Power' naturally coagulates in stillness, which requires non-attachment since psychological movement disperses the spirit. You can't become emancipated from those illusory movements if you think it's you that's moving.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Im not questioning the existence of other taoist paths my question to the Verdesi foundation was what do you consider leishandao?

 

What i posted above was my response. i didnt agree but thats ok. Now i did get some useful information from the discussion as well.

 

So ill extend my question to you. What do you consider to be leishandao?

 

Dear Templetao,

 

When you say Verdesi Foundation are you talking about a legal foundation? I do not think such a foundation exists. Or do you refer to their former website with a name of "Foundation"? Anyway, not so important

 

Again, I am not an expert on the subject and also I do not speak Chinese. As far as I know, Lei Shan Dao is the spiritual way of the warrior, in a way similar to Zen Buddhism / Samurais. Lei Shan Dao is the way of the warrior. At some level, may be 36 or 38 (of 72), I do not remember now, the practitioner is able to catch a lightning with his/her hand without getting harm. Chang Shifu was level 20 when I last heard but there are much more higher level masters level 60s mostly on mountain tops in China.

 

There is a rumuor that a Lei Shan Dao master will be enlightened after some level may be 62 I am not sure and I do not believe this. Because the Nafs of every human (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafs) is there and there is no sign that a Lei Shan Dao master learns to control his/her Nafs. Grandmaster Liao killed the whole village when he was level 30. As a Lei Shan Dao master is always gaining and storing power in his/her body, it will be much more difficult to control his/her Nafs. In fact, Islamic saints never gather such power in their bodies, they always distribute the energy, light to other people they collect from Divine Realm. So I consider the method of Lei Shan Dao too much dangerous.

 

Best Regards,

Edited November 22, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[GrandmasterP]

I don't believe astral projection is "out there" / I don't know if there is anything "out there" really haha... it appears to be...

 

Everything is within, I wonder.

 

I think meditation leads to the in version of the universe...

 

So the universe appears within rather than without and that perhaps is...

..................

Astral projection and remote viewing happen more often than folk know I reckon.

More people having done one or t'other and brushed it off as a dream or a wobble.

Neither practice is recommended nor taught in development circles in the biggest spiritualist organisation here in the UK.

What is taught is how to 'deal with' if and when those happen.

One of our working mediums Fiona Roberts has a book out on Kindle called Ghost of a Smile, well worth a look for anyone seriously interested in these areas.

[templetao]

Dear Templetao,

 

When you say Verdesi Foundation are you talking about a legal foundation? I do not think such a foundation exists. Or do you refer to their former website with a name of "Foundation"? Anyway, not so important

 

Again, I am not an expert on the subject and also I do not speak Chinese. As far as I know, Lei Shan Dao is the spiritual way of the warrior, in a way similar to Zen Buddhism / Samurais. Lei Shan Dao is the way of the warrior. At some level, may be 36 or 38 (of 72), I do not remember now, the practitioner is able to catch a lightning with his/her hand without getting harm. Chang Shifu was level 20 when I last heard but there are much more higher level masters level 60s mostly on mountain tops in China.

 

There is a rumuor that a Lei Shan Dao master will be enlightened after some level may be 62 I am not sure and I do not believe this. Because the Nafs of every human (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafs) is there and there is no sign that a Lei Shan Dao master learns to control his/her Nafs. Grandmaster Liao killed the whole village when he was level 30. As a Lei Shan Dao master is always gaining and storing power in his/her body, it will be much more difficult to control his/her Nafs. In fact, Islamic saints never gather such power in their bodies, they always distribute the energy, light to other people they collect from Divine Realm. So I consider the method of Lei Shan Dao too much dangerous.

 

Best Regards,

 

Im referring to davidverdesi.com

 

Now let me say that they were very nice very respectful and they were nice enough to answer all the questions that i asked them.

 

They did give me a few good tid bits of info.

 

1.) Once the awakened light of shen flows down to the ldt you can start to work on real ldt cultivation.

2.) Once chi is stored in the real dantian that it can never be lost.

3.) Any lightness that occurs during training is just from the body being rewired to fuel from the ldt.

 

 

 

All of this helped to hear another practitioner say this. Number 2 helped the most for me because in the temple style it is the awakened shen that can awaken the original power at the ldt.

[hydrogen]

 

Merceless One, do not be presumptuous. I am not speaking of philosophical musings, I am speaking from experience. I have died to this world while alive, and come back. I have ascended and descended through the various realms of existence. My awareness survived re-entry into the womb. I don't have anything to prove to you, the truth speaks for itself. I'm only here to help.

 

 

Fu Yue, would you like to share your experience?

 

I wrote in another threat about my own ego-death. I've died twice already. I don't think I have any special power now.

 

Right after my reborn, I could manifest things and manipulate time. Maybe I was just crazy.

 

I think virtue is more important than astral projection. Unfortunately it's the ability to make the right choise in any giving circumstances. It's not a bunch of fixed rules one can memorize and follow. One search his own immortality will find death.

 

That's my limited understanding.

[三江源]

Fu Yue, would you like to share your experience?

 

I wrote in another threat about my own ego-death. I've died twice already. I don't think I have any special power now.

 

Right after my reborn, I could manifest things and manipulate time. Maybe I was just crazy.

 

I think virtue is more important than astral projection. Unfortunately it's the ability to make the right choise in any giving circumstances. It's not a bunch of fixed rules one can memorize and follow. One search his own immortality will find death.

 

That's my limited understanding.

 

 

Can you tell more about what happened to you, hydrogen?

[MERCELESS ONE]

Fū Yue, on 21 November 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

 

No, I havent read the book so I don't remember john changs account in the spirit world. I have my own accounts to go on.

 

YOU: You're not correct.

-

ME: proove it!

-

YOU: 100% of the knowledge is in front of you right now, the only question is whether you can recognize it for what it is.

-

ME: if you have truly astroprojected you wouldnt make that statement! thats like saying all the knowledge about space can be gathered by not going there! that space is like earth if you had been there you would know that they are totally diferent places. this one and that one. different laws different effects ect..

 

YOU: Following nature's example is the way, and all biological and 'spiritual' knowledge is a natural permutation of what the universe is doing right now, the transmutation of the various phases of the elements, the cycle of the seasons and the harmony between polarity.

-

ME: its not following natures example its altering natures example , thats the way, and knowing fanciful words wont teach you how to use natures example to become immortal.

 

YOU: There's no use projecting to fantastical lands if you cannot even understand how enmeshed your being is in the natural elements around you, because if you can understand that then you already know the path to immortality, which is one of return, not leaving.

-

ME: its all the use you need. by projecting you understand what happens when you leave. and thats how you learn and understand how to get back. otherwise you'll leave and never know how to get back. and by exploring the other side you learn more about this one not the latter. thing is it takes more than indulging in philosophy of spirit and being. it takes knowledge and understanding. knowledge one can only get by doing, by going, by experiencing.

 

 

Merceless One, do not be presumptuous. I am not speaking of philosophical musings, I am speaking from experience. I have died to this world while alive, and come back. I have ascended and descended through the various realms of existence. My awareness survived re-entry into the womb. I don't have anything to prove to you, the truth speaks for itself. I'm only here to help.

 

And the truth is that nature is already perfect, and by making our selves identical to the celestial design we are able to enter the Tao even in normal existence, where nothing is gained or lost, and there are no ends or beginnings. By making our awareness in the likeness of the universe, we are able to recognize and follow the truth even through endless transformations and death itself. Reversing the outflow of light to return to the unfathomable nature is the whole path. You don't become immortal, because your nature is already deathless. Manifestation is deviation from the source.

 

Self realization is far more important than learning to astral project. If you have self realization, power will result naturally, it will all come together. You will naturally assimilate the knowledge from those who have gone before you, in dream and wakefulness. You don't need to 'go out there' to see the ascended masters. They are right here, in the space between these words. They live inside of you. But if you pursue power ignorant of the truth of being, you will only encounter obstacles and blank spots in your cultivation, because you will unconsciously create barriers between yourself and the beings you are trying to learn from.

 

you have no idea what your talking about! your still speaking philosophy! how i know is you keep saying the natural way, the natural/normal way is death and rebirth! you dont know how these teachings are used to become immortal. i understand your perspective. but it wont get you far. philosophy is one thing what i do is another.

Edited November 23, 2012 by MERCELESS ONE

[thetaoiseasy]

In my study, the Taoist path of immortality is different than Mo Pai's. Yang Shen is the highest level of Taoist immortality, in which there is no trace of yin energy. You become pure positive energy.

 

Look at my avatar of the circle. Remember in the Magus of Java? When John Chang saw that picture, he did not know what it was. This is the symbol for pure yang energy, or wu ji, the goal of taoist immortality -- there is no yin energy on the other half.

 

What was Lu Dong Bing's name? Pure Yang. Obviously, he is the famous immortal of the 8. You often see him in pictures throwing a fireball.

 

Furthermore, many of John Chang's interesting spiritual developments--such as seeing his own body--he only developed them when was a very high level in "mo-pai" terms.

 

But in Taoist development, those are preliminary developments that can be achieved in 49 days with the right methods, but must be nurtured and nurtured and stabilized. In fact, 9 years of staring at a blank wall.

 

I think that's what John Chang means when he says he is the head of a martial school. The emphasis is just different from the Taoist approach. No less powerful. Just different.

 

Speaking of which, Yang shen and Yin Shen are totally different.

 

There were two men. One man could go to a distant garden and come back. He could describe everything he saw. The second man could go to distant garden and bring back a flower. That's the different between yang shen and yin shen. So one is done consciously and real time, one is done in visions or dreams. In fact, my teacher told me yin shen was a bad practice that I should avoid totally. He did not expound why, but he said the soul could get lost.

 

What was John Chang describing in his book when he went to the jungle, yin shen or yang shen? I don't have it anymore, so I don't know.

 

Edit.

 

I will add a point. There seems to be emphasis, in the book at least, that you don't need to be a good person or virtuous to attain the secrets in immortality, aka, go past level 30. This is completely contrary to the Taoist view. In Taoist traditions, you need to do 3000 secret deeds to benefit your fellow man to be eligible for those secrets.

Edited November 23, 2012 by thetaoiseasy

[Fū Yue]

you have no idea what your talking about! your still speaking philosophy!

 

OK.

[MERCELESS ONE]

..................

Astral projection and remote viewing happen more often than folk know I reckon.

More people having done one or t'other and brushed it off as a dream or a wobble.

Neither practice is recommended nor taught in development circles in the biggest spiritualist organisation here in the UK.

What is taught is how to 'deal with' if and when those happen.

One of our working mediums Fiona Roberts has a book out on Kindle called Ghost of a Smile, well worth a look for anyone seriously interested in these areas.

 

how come you all dont use these techniques? the group im with we all have found these techniques useful in training awarness. and opening up your mind to more than what the eyes can see. and projection can take lead you to the yin field! theres more to learn with these two abilities than what you can imagin.

[MERCELESS ONE]

Dear Templetao,

 

When you say Verdesi Foundation are you talking about a legal foundation? I do not think such a foundation exists. Or do you refer to their former website with a name of "Foundation"? Anyway, not so important

 

Again, I am not an expert on the subject and also I do not speak Chinese. As far as I know, Lei Shan Dao is the spiritual way of the warrior, in a way similar to Zen Buddhism / Samurais. Lei Shan Dao is the way of the warrior. At some level, may be 36 or 38 (of 72), I do not remember now, the practitioner is able to catch a lightning with his/her hand without getting harm. Chang Shifu was level 20 when I last heard but there are much more higher level masters level 60s mostly on mountain tops in China.

 

There is a rumuor that a Lei Shan Dao master will be enlightened after some level may be 62 I am not sure and I do not believe this. Because the Nafs of every human (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafs) is there and there is no sign that a Lei Shan Dao master learns to control his/her Nafs. Grandmaster Liao killed the whole village when he was level 30. As a Lei Shan Dao master is always gaining and storing power in his/her body, it will be much more difficult to control his/her Nafs. In fact, Islamic saints never gather such power in their bodies, they always distribute the energy, light to other people they collect from Divine Realm. So I consider the method of Lei Shan Dao too much dangerous.

 

Best Regards,

 

its level 30, at level 30 the amount of energy you will have is more than the average lightening bolt. the average lightening bolt has 1milion volts of electricity. at level 30 you will have about 1,342,177volts of electricity-equavalent.

 

and liao was at level 25 when he destroyed that village.

 

and its not dangerous if you know what youre doing!

[Isimsiz Biri]

Im referring to davidverdesi.com

Now let me say that they were very nice very respectful and they were nice enough to answer all the questions that i asked them.

They did give me a few good tid bits of info.

1.) Once the awakened light of shen flows down to the ldt you can start to work on real ldt cultivation.

2.) Once chi is stored in the real dantian that it can never be lost.

3.) Any lightness that occurs during training is just from the body being rewired to fuel from the ldt.

All of this helped to hear another practitioner say this. Number 2 helped the most for me because in the temple style it is the awakened shen that can awaken the original power at the ldt.

 

Again, I am not in a position to speak in David and his students name. I wish the guy who gave you the information was also here to correct any errors.

 

"1.) Once the awakened light of shen flows down to the ldt you can start to work on real ldt cultivation."

There is a concept of stabilizing the Shen in David's system. This concept was practiced in NG 1 of David's system, to get the light of Shen.

 

2.) Once chi is stored in the real dantian that it can never be lost.

I am not sure what level is this info is referring to. Certainly it is not level 1. If somebody fills his/her dantian with Yang Qi and stops practicing Level 1, the collected Yang Qi will disperse. May be they are referring to level 2a-2b, or even 3

 

3.) Any lightness that occurs during training is just from the body being rewired to fuel from the ldt.

Never heard such a thing. Quite creative though. Lightness meaning a physical lightness or even levitation Just Joking. Frankly speaking, I never heard this before.

 

I do not know which school you are practicing. I do not know whether it is a real lineage. But be careful. My humble advise will be stay away of it. But this is my opinion only. I have seen people who developed serious health problems trying to practice either this or that Lei Shan Dao school.

[Isimsiz Biri]

its level 30, at level 30 the amount of energy you will have is more than the average lightening bolt. the average lightening bolt has 1milion volts of electricity. at level 30 you will have about 1,342,177volts of electricity-equavalent.

 

First of all, you do not know physics, particularly electricity. What is your profession? It is not just voltage difference (volts) but also current (Amperes) that matters. If you have seen the photograph of Nikola Tesla sitting in the center of arcs, he was also sitting next to 1000 kV (kiloVolts) (1000 kV=1000000 Volts) the power and the current was low, so he was safe.

 

Second, qi is an energy similar to electricity but not electricity, its frequency is much different than 50 Hertz (Hz) or 60 Hz. Qi has much more different characteristics than electricity. It can take many forms.

 

iand liao was at level 25 when he destroyed that village.

Thank you. But could you tell me what difference will it make if he was really 25 instead of 30?

As far as I remember, he was 30 because at that level swords, bullets do not give any harm to the practitioner but again it does not matter whether he was 25 or 30

 

and its not dangerous if you know what youre doing!

 

This is funny. Was Stalin not aware of what he was doing while killing 3.5 million people between 1933-1938 before World War II? Was Genghis Khan not knowing what he was doing when he gave the order to butcher the civilians of Bukhara and Samarkand cities? Was Grandmaster Liao not knowing what he was doing while he was slaying the whole village? (I am not mentioning Adolf Hitler may be Godwin's Law gets active)

 

If you give power to hands of a person who is a slave of his Nafs and his personal Satan, he can do anything.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Thunder_Gooch]

Recep,

 

I am not really sure what is so controversial here.

 

"lei shan dao" is a descriptor term.

 

It is not an actual lineage itself.

 

No mo pai members go around telling people mo pai is a "lei shan dao" school.

 

That is a description given to the mo pai school by verdesi.

 

If I really wanted to trash talk Verdesi I'd use better examples than the fact he coined a term to describe schools which use yin/yang gong.

 

I don't really have the energy or desire to argue about it though.

 

I am of the mindset as of late that ****** people deserve to get ripped off, and I won't waste my energy trying to persuade them otherwise.

 

Best of luck in your studies with Verdesi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sir, I know him personally already. No need for me to ask. The six great dao is not David's invention. You are not replying my simple question but telling me to ask David. You said that David has invented "Lei Shan Dao" term. And I am saying no he has not. Do you have any proof, for instance an article or a letter from David Verdesi that states he had coined the term himself? If yes, either post it here or send me via PM. If not, then explain how do you know that Lei Shan Dao term was not used before David?

 

I also already know the meanings of Lei, Shan and Dao but thank you anyway for posting here. At least others will learn too.

 

Other schools also work with Yin and Yang energies, not just Lei Shan Dao schools.

 

Best Regards

Edited November 23, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Wells]

I am of the mindset as of late that ****** people deserve to get ripped off, and I won't waste my energy trying to persuade them otherwise.

 

Best of luck in your studies with Verdesi.

 

True, every fool who throws his money into Verdesi's pharynx TODAY after all the evidence about him being a con man being written on thetaobums for years truly deserves being ripped-off!!!

...maybe "Dr" David "Shen" is helping them to resolve their "bad karma" in this way and is in fact helping them spiritually by screwing them!

Edited November 23, 2012 by Dorian Black

[Isimsiz Biri]

Recep,

I am not really sure what is so controversial here.

I did not say that there is something controversial. I just said David did not invent the six great dao terminology because I know this issue. You are just writing your assumptions. But in this case they are not true.

 

"lei shan dao" is a descriptor term.

It is not an actual lineage itself.

Exactly. It is a descriptor term not invented by David Verdesi. The six great dao shows the categories of application of Daoist schools. Some lineages belong to only one category, use only one dao. Some schools, lineages use more than one Dao

 

No mo pai members go around telling people mo pai is a "lei shan dao" school.

That is a description given to the school by verdesi.

I am not so sure how many real Mo-Pai members do you know and besides, in my opinion, it is only Chang Shifu (whether he is or he is not the headmaster) could speak in this subject. David Verdesi studied with Chang Shifu for some time, but he is not an inner disciple but he shows ultimate respect to Chang Shifu and Mo-Pai. Definitely, he does not want to mass with Mo-Pai. So there is no disrespect or intention of insult calling Mo-Pai as a Lei Shan Dao school at all. It is not David making this categorization but his other masters.

 

If I really wanted to trash talk Verdesi I'd use better examples than the fact he coined a term to describe schools which use yin/yang gong.

Then you should use better examples. Again, he did not coin a term to describe schools which use Yin-Yang Gong. In fact, in year 2006, his Chinese was so limited that even if he wanted to coin, he could not do it himself.

 

I don't really have the energy or desire to argue about it though.

Me either.

 

I am of the mindset as of late that ****** people deserve to get ripped off, and I won't waste my energy trying to persuade them otherwise.

More Pie Guy, relax, you do not have to be always right. Put some kind of reserves in your statements. You are really talking like an expert on Daoist schools. First, you do not speak Chinese. Second, you are only trying to follow Mo-Pai and closing yourself to every bit of other information. Third, you are a good and honest guy but be careful about your Nafs.

 

Best of luck in your studies with Verdesi.

I left David Verdesi years ago. Besides, I would not recommend anybody to practice with David Verdesi. But I am a Muslim. I have to be fair. I can not let you say David Verdesi coined the term although I know he did not. My point is this simple.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Thunder_Gooch]

Can you provide just one instance of the term "Lei Shan Dao" being used in a Taoist context prior to 2004 anywhere?

 

I've looked I can find none, none of the encyclopedias of Taoism make any reference to such.

 

I just sent an email out to two prominent Taoist scholars and Verdesi, I'll let you know when I hear something back.

 

I remember there was something in one of his old forums I had read, but his forums are dead, and I stopped reading them then they wanted $200 for access to them.

 

Also if you go to google and type in:

 

Verdesi site:thetaobums.com

 

You can read many horror stories of people being ripped off, not being able to get refunded for classes they were never able to attend, etc.

 

I am not going to argue further about Verdesi, but I'll let you know what I find out regarding the "lei shan dao" from the scholars.

 

 

I did not say that there is something controversial. I just said David did not invent the six great dao terminology because I know this issue. You are just writing your assumptions. But in this case they are not true.

 

 

Exactly. It is a descriptor term not invented by David Verdesi. The six great dao shows the categories of application of Daoist schools. Some lineages belong to only one category, use only one dao. Some schools, lineages use more than one Dao

 

 

I am not so sure how many real Mo-Pai members do you know and besides, in my opinion, it is only Chang Shifu (whether he is or he is not the headmaster) could speak in this subject. David Verdesi studied with Chang Shifu for some time, but he is not an inner disciple but he shows ultimate respect to Chang Shifu and Mo-Pai. Definitely, he does not want to mass with Mo-Pai. So there is no disrespect or intention of insult calling Mo-Pai as a Lei Shan Dao school at all. It is not David making this categorization but his other masters.

 

 

Then you should use better examples. Again, he did not coin a term to describe schools which use Yin-Yang Gong. In fact, in year 2006, his Chinese was so limited that even if he wanted to coin, he could not do it himself.

 

 

Me either.

 

 

More Pie Guy, relax, you do not have to be always right. Put some kind of reserves in your statements. You are really talking like an expert on Daoist schools. First, you do not speak Chinese. Second, you are only trying to follow Mo-Pai and closing yourself to every bit of other information. Third, you are a good and honest guy but be careful about your Nafs.

 

 

I left David Verdesi years ago. Besides, I would not recommend anybody to practice with David Verdesi. But I am a Muslim. I have to be fair. I can not let you say David Verdesi coined the term although I know he did not. My point is this simple.

I did not say that there is something controversial. I just said David did not invent the six great dao terminology because I know this issue. You are just writing your assumptions. But in this case it is not true.

 

 

Exactly. It is a descriptor term not invented by David Verdesi. The six great dao shows the categories of application of Daoist schools. Some lineages belong to only one category, use only one dao. Some schools, lineages use more than one Dao

 

 

I am not so sure how many real Mo-Pai members do you know and besides, in my opinion, it is only Chang Shifu (whether he is or he is not the headmaster) could speak in this subject. David Verdesi studied with Chang Shifu for some time, but he is not an inner disciple but he shows ultimate respect to Chang Shifu and Mo-Pai. Definitely, he does not want to mass with Mo-Pai. So there is no disrespect or intention of insult calling Mo-Pai as a Lei Shan Dao school at all. It is not David making this categorization but his other masters.

 

 

Then you should use better examples. Again, he did not coin a term to describe schools which use Yin-Yang Gong. In fact, in year 2006, his Chinese was so limited that even if he wanted to coin, he could not do it himself.

 

 

Me either.

 

 

More Pie Guy, relax, you do not have to be always right. Put some kind of reserves in your statements. You are really talking like an expert on Daoist schools. First, you do not speak Chinese. Second, you are only trying to follow Mo-Pai and closing yourself to every bit of other information. Third, you are a good and honest guy but be careful about your Nafs.

 

 

I left David Verdesi years ago. Besides, I would not recommend anybody to practice with David Verdesi. But I am a Muslim. I have to be fair. I can not let you say David Verdesi coined the term although I know he did not. My point is this simple.

Edited November 23, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy