Any skeptics, agnostics, freethinkers etc.

[innerspace_cadet]

I'm coming to the realization that I am utterly incapable of being religious in the usual sense. My beliefs can be counted on one hand. I don't believe in Immortals, Buddhas, reincarnation, bodhisattvas, etc. I am not saying this as a criticism of the members of this forum who do. Is there anyone else on this forum who is somewhat like me? Someone who doesn't put much stock in beliefs, and who questions anything that doesn't make sense?

 

What do I believe, you might ask. Well, I believe in the Tao as a philosophical concept of how the universe works, and I believe in chi, but that is about it. I am completely agnostic about life after death. I sometimes question even enlightenment itself.

 

I think I should just sit and meditate, cultivate Te, and not worry too much about these metaphysical things. For the longest time, I tried to fit the round peg of my mind and soul into the different sized holes of the world's religions and it never worked out. It's just not me.

 

Does anyone else here feel that way?

[deci belle]

[ShaktiMama]

I am reading right now, How God changes your Brain, written by a neuroscientist.

 

http://www.amazon.com/How-Changes-Your-Brain-Neuroscientist/dp/0345503414

 

Much of the book is a heavily referenced research study which will enable to answer your questions and find some questions you didn't even know you had.

 

Must reading for the meditation practice or any internal cultivation practice you may be following.

 

It should be required reading for all teachers of these systems.

 

Where it really gets good is when he says belief in God or a god is not necessary to benefit from "spiritual practices."

 

I find fascinating where he takes a contruction worker, trains him in meditation, and with in less than two months is showing brain activity that rivals a buddhist monk who has been practicing his whole life.

 

s

[orb]

I'm coming to the realization that I am utterly incapable of being religious in the usual sense. My beliefs can be counted on one hand. I don't believe in Immortals, Buddhas, reincarnation, bodhisattvas, etc. I am not saying this as a criticism of the members of this forum who do. Is there anyone else on this forum who is somewhat like me? Someone who doesn't put much stock in beliefs, and who questions anything that doesn't make sense?

 

What do I believe, you might ask. Well, I believe in the Tao as a philosophical concept of how the universe works, and I believe in chi, but that is about it. I am completely agnostic about life after death. I sometimes question even enlightenment itself.

 

I think I should just sit and meditate, cultivate Te, and not worry too much about these metaphysical things. For the longest time, I tried to fit the round peg of my mind and soul into the different sized holes of the world's religions and it never worked out. It's just not me.

 

Does anyone else here feel that way?

 

You sound pretty wise, amigo.

[manitou]

My guess is that pretty much everyone else on this forum shares your views. Many of us got here by climbing through and transcending the structure of any organized thought-bubble. My particular conclusion, after everything's been read and said and done, is that we're pretty much It. We are the eyes and ears of the Absolute, as Steve F. so eloguently put it.

[ShaktiMama]

My guess is that pretty much everyone else on this forum shares your views. Many of us got here by climbing through and transcending the structure of any organized thought-bubble. My particular conclusion, after everything's been read and said and done, is that we're pretty much It. We are the eyes and ears of the Absolute, as Steve F. so eloguently put it.

 

 

I am the world's biggest skeptic. Every time something happens, that I see or experience, a voice in my head is heard to yell, "you are so full of sh*t. This so unscientific, illogical, and crap."

 

Complete confidence, while living in this 3D meat suit, escapes me.

 

s

[suninmyeyes]

I'm coming to the realization that I am utterly incapable of being religious in the usual sense. My beliefs can be counted on one hand. I don't believe in Immortals, Buddhas, reincarnation, bodhisattvas, etc. I am not saying this as a criticism of the members of this forum who do. Is there anyone else on this forum who is somewhat like me? Someone who doesn't put much stock in beliefs, and who questions anything that doesn't make sense?

 

What do I believe, you might ask. Well, I believe in the Tao as a philosophical concept of how the universe works, and I believe in chi, but that is about it. I am completely agnostic about life after death. I sometimes question even enlightenment itself.

 

I think I should just sit and meditate, cultivate Te, and not worry too much about these metaphysical things. For the longest time, I tried to fit the round peg of my mind and soul into the different sized holes of the world's religions and it never worked out. It's just not me.

 

Does anyone else here feel that way?

Hahaha I dont even think of myself spiritual anymore and definetly skeptic.

I just want to be filled up with love,pumping through my veins.

[Otis]

Does anyone else here feel that way?

As you see, many of us do.

 

Personally, I don't like to use the term "spiritual", because it implies something special, something different than ordinary reality and psychology. I don't think that we need to go into "magical" or "supernatural" territory in order for the wisdom of Taoism and Buddhism to still make sense. Logic still holds in a Zen universe, just not "common sense" (which is a form of provincialism).

 

I think it is enough to say that "my view of reality does not describe what is actually there, nor will I ever have an objective viewpoint". There's plenty of mystery within that statement to last a lifetime, without the need for bringing in special powers and forces.

 

Not to say that science has all the answers, of course, or that what is outside of science is necessarily false. But science IS doing great work, and I think that's a pretty good starting point for considering the world. In particular, I think neuroscience is blazing trails that are very relevant and useful to "spiritual" seekers, in order for us all to get a better view of how our brains work.

 

(That said, there are terms that science doesn't have much to say about, like Qi and Agape love, so "squishy" metaphors may still need to be employed).

Edited May 3, 2011 by Otis

[Aaron]

Hello Cadet,

 

As Otis said, many of us feel this way. I respect philosophies and examine them, but eventually I take what I think is beneficial and leave the rest. The fact is every philosophy has something beneficial, the trick is digging through all the moral and religious dogma to identify exactly what that is.

 

Aaron

Edited May 3, 2011 by Twinner

[stan herman]

To you all, good to read this stuff.

[doc benway]

I'm coming to the realization that I am utterly incapable of being religious in the usual sense. My beliefs can be counted on one hand. I don't believe in Immortals, Buddhas, reincarnation, bodhisattvas, etc. I am not saying this as a criticism of the members of this forum who do. Is there anyone else on this forum who is somewhat like me? Someone who doesn't put much stock in beliefs, and who questions anything that doesn't make sense?

 

What do I believe, you might ask. Well, I believe in the Tao as a philosophical concept of how the universe works, and I believe in chi, but that is about it. I am completely agnostic about life after death. I sometimes question even enlightenment itself.

 

I think I should just sit and meditate, cultivate Te, and not worry too much about these metaphysical things. For the longest time, I tried to fit the round peg of my mind and soul into the different sized holes of the world's religions and it never worked out. It's just not me.

 

Does anyone else here feel that way?

Great post - I'm with you on this one. I don't believe in belief.

I don't "believe" in much - certainly not ineffable concepts like the ones you listed.

Can't recall who to quote but I'll paraphrase -

Belief is the fervent hope that some idea or doctrine that I rely on for my security or sense of well being is true.

On the other hand I do have faith-

Faith is the confidence and conviction that when we have the courage to let go of all beliefs and ideas and doctrine, that which remains - what I can see and feel and experience inside and around me through awareness, that is the truth.

 

In that sense, I feel that I am a deeply religious person.

I know that I have experienced and continue to experience the truth - I am a living expression of it.

What more do I need? Words? Books? Bibles? Buddhas? Hah!

If you meet the Buddha in the road, kill him! Kill your beliefs!

Sit and close your eyes an be.

 

So I will disagree with you also - your refusal to accept someone else's doctrine and ideas, your refusal to believe, and your desire to simply be and cultivate integrity, that makes you a profoundly religious man in my view.

 

Namaste, brother (or sister, as the case may be).

 

Real religion is the individual's internal search for the truth, everything else is politics.

[manitou]

Great post - I'm with you on this one. I don't believe in belief.

I don't "believe" in much - certainly not ineffable concepts like the ones you listed.

Can't recall who to quote but I'll paraphrase -

Belief is the fervent hope that some idea or doctrine that I rely on for my security or sense of well being is true.

On the other hand I do have faith-

Faith is the confidence and conviction that when we have the courage to let go of all beliefs and ideas and doctrine, that which remains - what I can see and feel and experience inside and around me through awareness, that is the truth.

 

In that sense, I feel that I am a deeply religious person.

I know that I have experienced and continue to experience the truth - I am a living expression of it.

What more do I need? Words? Books? Bibles? Buddhas? Hah!

If you meet the Buddha in the road, kill him! Kill your beliefs!

Sit and close your eyes an be.

 

So I will disagree with you also - your refusal to accept someone else's doctrine and ideas, your refusal to believe, and your desire to simply be and cultivate integrity, that makes you a profoundly religious man in my view.

 

Namaste, brother (or sister, as the case may be).

 

Real religion is the individual's internal search for the truth, everything else is politics.

 

...and belief, which is of our mind, is finally replaced by Knowing, which is of our heart. These are two separate things.

[doc benway]

...and belief, which is of our mind, is finally replaced by Knowing, which is of our heart. These are two separate things.

Agreed - I'd much rather know a little than believe a lot!

Sometimes when people ask me what I believe in I tell them NOTHING!

That's an interesting place to start a discussion...

[stan herman]

Agreed - I'd much rather know a little than believe a lot!

Sometimes when people ask me what I believe in I tell them NOTHING!

That's an interesting place to start a discussion...

 

A neat idea I've found is having access to suspending both belief and disbelief from time to time. I started doing that in a limited way and after a while I find it's a generally useful perspective, especially in evaluating daily issues both at the personal and world affairs levels. Of course some will ask, how can one judge moral issues if one does not hold firm to one's beliefs?

[manitou]

A neat idea I've found is having access to suspending both belief and disbelief from time to time. I started doing that in a limited way and after a while I find it's a generally useful perspective, especially in evaluating daily issues both at the personal and world affairs levels. Of course some will ask, how can one judge moral issues if one does not hold firm to one's beliefs?

 

 

I don't think the sage would have beliefs at all.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[manitou]

He will say : I can just loose one life but I can make millions to loose their life and this is nothing since this humans are reproduce as there is no loss, you see all this wars and slaughter has not even scratch the world population

only the Black Death could make a dent and hundred years they have recovered what are

millions of human units loosing the life by my orders. Its logic to get rid of them

they destroy the enviroment. You are just a puppet you have no soul, there is no god

and my life is the only thing I can loose, you will loose it first by me.

 

 

 

Yep, this is one way of looking at it,

 

Actually, I think this is pretty valid. It goes right along with the concept of the straw dogs within the Dao - the rain fall equally upon all. I don't think the Dao much cares who lives and who dies - it is an IMPERSONAL force. But we have the choice of alignment with the Dao or non-alignment. If the concept and the infusion of Love is at our core, then the dynamics of the Dao are free to flow within us, within every conversation, every thought, as much of the day as we can stay within Awareness. Damn! Life is Good when it's viewed through loving eyes.

[Encephalon]

I'd like to revisit the original post and ask InnerSpace if he feels these responses are consistent with his assessment of the intellectual tradition he's described. The academic critical thinking movement is the latest manifestation of this tradition.

[innerspace_cadet]

Sorry to have responded so late, Blasto. Some of the responses do fit the intellectual tradition I'm describing, some not.

 

It is possible to assert that everyone is skeptical about something. For example, a Christian would be skeptical about the truth claims of Islam.

 

But I am skeptical about almost everything, unless there is compelling evidence for it. Other things that are unknowable, such as what happens after death, I am more agnostic about. I won't dismiss the possibility outright though.

 

I hope this answers your question.