taoist lovemaking and karezza

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Man, it's all about confidence. As a woman put it to me once "Women will date a cab driver if he has confidence [ie. doesn't have to have money etc.]" That's why women like "bad boys" because they project confidence and independence. That's the other thing -- too many guys, "bad boys" included and especially, blame the world as if they're entitled to this that and the other. This is actually "mama's boy" syndrome -- still feeling like we're entitled to being served whatever we want.

 

So, if you have confidence and are not a mama's boy in disguise (read: bad boy) then you have 3 legs up on most of the competition. Nice Guys are too often nice just because they want something back for their being nice. Sometimes they turn super manipulative because they were trying to get a free ride by being the servant and it didn't get them where they felt it should so they become controlling -- still super dependent on the girl, still turning her off.

 

Confidence and independence + intelligence = happy and desirable man that plenty women tryin to find.

 

I think you also need to heal your spirit, and you seem to be holding a heavy grudge. Holding a grudge takes you further away from God, the Tao, etc.., so you ought to find the strength and benefits to YOU of forgiveness so you can live in love again, and enjoy life in peace and harmony.

 

Also consider this fact when you do find a potential partner: as soon as the word ME enters into any kind of relationship -- there's trouble.

 

Now that's it from me. I don't have time trying to make someone happy that doesn't want to be happy. ?

[Mahberry]

Here's a link.

 

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2007/12/explainer-what-is-nice-guy.html

 

The article and the comments are very informative.

 

Plenty of less than average fat girls will take you for what you're worth, OP. Not that there's anything wrong with less than average fat girls but I'm thinking that you're pining for a beautiful woman to discover what a nice guy you're deep down inside and love you for who you are and tell you to rest on your laurels because you're already perfect and need not work on yourself anymore (I said this because I used to suffer from the same delusion).

 

All your rationalizations will get you nowhere, the path to getting a woman in your life is simple and direct (just not easy due because of the compulsory amount of hurt we have to go through), it just takes a man willing to be a man, take charge of their own life and improve themselves to a desirable level.

 

Women put in a lot of work into their appearances too, too much in fact so why shouldn't they expect the same from their would be partners?

 

I can dig deeper and relive my old self for you, if you're willing to listen. I bet a lot of it will resonate with you.

[jago25_98]

I don't think anyone really heard what I said, which was this:

 

It can be better to just let go of desire and concentrate on sorting out the spirit. One thing at a time

[gendao]

[Enishi]

That pre-med, nerdy guy needs to let go of his delusions and break up with that girl. She obviously doesn't love him, lmao.

 

He should go date in an asian country. He would probably be happier there.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Enishi

[Sloppy Zhang]

That pre-med, nerdy guy needs to let go of his delusions and break up with that girl. She obviously doesn't love him, lmao.

 

Well some relationships that look good "on paper" just don't work out. Sometimes two people just don't click. Sometimes you just don't love the person you want to love, or maybe even think you should love.

 

But that's not to say you should go marry the person you're having some wild and passionate, volatile and maybe even irresponsible affair- because those can fall apart just as easy as they can come together.

 

But it's not like there are only two kinds of people in the world. It also doesn't mean that healthy relationships don't involve compromise- because they do, and compromising isn't a sign that you don't get along. But it also doesn't mean that if you feel passionate about the other, that it's a relationship that isn't built on anything solid.

 

I think that many times, people can't differentiate between what they REALLY want, and what they've been told they want by marketing, movies, parents, etc etc.

 

Though in that particular person's story, she seems young anyway- college undergrad. First boyfriend dropped out of college? Other boyfriend is pre-med? I dunno, a lot of things still have yet to be worked out. First guy might land a stable job and be happy, second guy could wash out of med school (if he even gets in), then get a stressed out unhappy job and not be the ever-so-nice guy he is now.

 

So, I dunno, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on that story.

[Aetherous]

Hilarious Onion News video.

 

While I think a lot of these relationship problems are in fact problems in the world...I see that keeping them in mind does us no good. It's a nearly endless cycle of failure...why perpetuate it?

 

Better to just move forward and ignore the status quo. If you get knocked down, just get back up and remember there are millions of "fish in the sea".

 

I don't think anyone really heard what I said, which was this:

 

It can be better to just let go of desire and concentrate on sorting out the spirit. One thing at a time

 

Yeah...I agree. Also sorting out your life (making sure you can survive, etc).

Edited May 15, 2011 by center

[gendao]

That pre-med, nerdy guy needs to let go of his delusions and break up with that girl. She obviously doesn't love him, lmao.

 

He should go date in an asian country. He would probably be happier there.

Well, a beta provider isn't likely going to get truly "loved" by anyone anywhere. That's why he has to be a resource provider, to begin with. And why he would be willing to settle for getting used for resources - because that's his only remaining option. Getting "loved" and beta male simply do not belong in the same sentence. Getting "used" and beta male do.

 

The only real out to find "real love" is to "jump" status and ladders to become an alpha MAN. Like Robert Crumb did when he became a famous cartoonist..

 

Look, when you see rabidly screaming groupies in any country - who are they screaming for? Jock stars, rock stars, actors, etc. You never find them screaming for some reliable beta nerd scientist or doctor, lol. Found the cure to cancer? Who gives a f???

 

It's no different in Asia or anywhere else. In fact in Asia, it may be a bit worse in some respects because you have a lot more beta providers to compete against - who will up the resource ante for what women will expect from their mate. Hey, Jimmy Wongton just bought his girlfriend a new seaside condo - what have you done for ME lately??

 

Of course, considering the average salary in China is only ~$6,000 USD (but rising), even a poverty-level bum here should not have a problem keeping up with the Wong's there..

Edited May 15, 2011 by vortex

[Enishi]

 

It's no different in Asia or anywhere else. In fact in Asia, it may be a bit worse in some respects because you have a lot more beta providers to compete against - who will up the resource ante for what women will expect from their mate. Hey, Jimmy Wongton just bought his girlfriend a new seaside condo - what have you done for ME lately??

 

That has not been the experience of some men I've talked to who went to live and work in Asia/Latin America. Breaking out of the nerdy mold is still required to an extent no matter where you go IMO, but there ARE cultural differences that influence whether you are considered alpha/beta. In the case of the aforementioned men, it's possible that the exotic element of coming from an outside culture, combined with having an accent, increased their 'alpha' image.

 

I do agree though that a general trend of Aphas for sex, Betas for $$tability can be observed just about anywhere.

 

I have a pet theory that the type of role married men play in Western societies is fundamentally different than that of married men in pre-industrial agricultural societies, or hunter-gatherer societies. The type of work they do and the authority they wield is more akin to that of the male heads of the household in horticultural matrifocal/matrilineal societies. Such men were not husbands, they were the womens' BROTHERS. This would go a long way towards explaining why so many wives start feeling like their husband is more of a brother/friend after several years of marriage.

 

If society starts to move in a more horticultural direction (which I believe may be necessary to survive for economic and environmental reasons) I also suspect that many men will just stay with their sisters and mother and not marry. If he has any self-respect or spine at all, a man should NEVER be a beta provider to a woman who does not feel the same passion for him as she did for 'that guy' at the club who could dance well/flirt well/whatever.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Enishi

[Non]

Hilarious Onion News video.

 

While I think a lot of these relationship problems are in fact problems in the world...I see that keeping them in mind does us no good. It's a nearly endless cycle of failure...why perpetuate it?

 

Better to just move forward and ignore the status quo. If you get knocked down, just get back up and remember there are millions of "fish in the sea".

 

 

 

Yeah...I agree. Also sorting out your life (making sure you can survive, etc).

 

making sure you get laid is part of ensuring your survival. Your very sense of self and body depends on it.

 

Starting off without it ever in your childhood including successful interaction with the opposite sex is like not having had enough food to even begin to have the energy required to get more food or even continue on living and settling somewhere. You're always self sabotaging yourself and have no movitation to live or even strive for something better because it all seems futile. People unconsciously expect you to have experienced when you're my age, and to be "sexually mature." To even get experience requires experience, etc. Besides that it all seems hopeless because what else do you have to live for? Its all useless because biologically you are psychologically castrated due to your lack of history, and biologically speaking you're not really wired to live that long or even healthily being an incelibate unless you live in a tibetan monastery or taoist monastary and use their transmutaton exercise and even then have to embody both yin and yang male and female within the personality to be successful. Hey Im living society not everyone can be a monk and not everyone can live healthily without consequences of their past experiences or lack of.

 

People misunderstand me and think I'm just expecting women to fall on my lap, that's not the case. Its just when you're like me with little experience it's very hard to have confidence and hope for the future in regards to sexuality and relationships and it doesn't have that much to do with self love as it is of just having others accept you for who you are and live with it.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Non

[Non]

That has not been the experience of some men I've talked to who went to live and work in Asia/Latin America. Breaking out of the nerdy mold is still required to an extent no matter where you go IMO, but there ARE cultural differences that influence whether you are considered alpha/beta. In the case of the aforementioned men, it's possible that the exotic element of coming from an outside culture, combined with having an accent, increased their 'alpha' image.

 

I do agree though that a general trend of Aphas for sex, Betas for $$tability can be observed just about anywhere.

 

I have a pet theory that the type of role married men play in Western societies is fundamentally different than that of married men in pre-industrial agricultural societies, or hunter-gatherer societies. The type of work they do and the authority they wield is more akin to that of the male heads of the household in horticultural matrifocal/matrilineal societies. Such men were not husbands, they were the womens' BROTHERS. This would go a long way towards explaining why so many wives start feeling like their husband is more of a brother/friend after several years of marriage.

 

If society starts to move in a more horticultural direction (which I believe may be necessary to survive for economic and environmental reasons) I also suspect that many men will just stay with their sisters and mother and not marry. If he has any self-respect or spine at all, a man should NEVER be a beta provider to a woman who does not feel the same passion for him as she did for 'that guy' at the club who could dance well/flirt well/whatever.

 

yea nowadays betas are not even considered to provide either.. or for stability.

 

Who needs stability nowadays? We now have condoms.

 

and a whole lot of 'beta males' to kill off and torture.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Non

[Non]

people people can be so hypocritical...

 

it's 'normal' for women to be selfish and prefer 'alpha males' but for a man (beta male actually) to prefer one woman over another it's not ok.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Non

[gendao]

In the case of the aforementioned men, it's possible that the exotic element of coming from an outside culture, combined with having an accent, increased their 'alpha' image.

Well moreso, women here no longer need to rely directly upon beta providers - because "progressive" liberalism has turned the State into a giant taxpayer-funded universal Beta Provider. So, a woman can just get knocked up by as many bad boys as she wants now - and stick the tab for cuckolding all these kids to the welfare state (collective beta male taxpayers). Same thing is happening with "universal" Obamacare too.

 

Because liberalism is all Robin Hood policies that steal resources from beta males to give to alpha bad boys & their groupies. And people wonder why bad boys & women have such an advantage in this country now???

 

Hence in the Black American community now, a staggering 80% of black babies are born to unwed moms.. It's interesting because even responsible Black "nice guys" are b*tching about thug groupies there with the exact same complaints that Non has here:

“Why Black American Chicks Like Thugs”

Smart" girls, dumb thugs...

Black Women Having Babies Expecting Others To Raise Them

So, clearly this is a very REAL phenomenom that crosses all boundaries in this country.

 

If you are a "nice guy" beta male - you will basically get reamed without lube, scapegoated as the villain by feminists & mugged by the Feds here..

 

So, this is just all a very predictable Game Theory outcome of anti-beta male social policies that encourage it. Whereas in the other less liberal countries, they don't essentially subsidize women breeding with bad boys..

 

Bad boys are given an artificial advantage in this country due to liberalism. Just like oil & other companies who enjoy government subsidies.

 

If the playing field were leveled again - the outcome would be far more naturally balanced.

Edited May 16, 2011 by vortex

[Smile]

I can spend aeons trying to become "perfect" in her eyes: it's never going to happen though. It's impossible. Perfectly impossible.

Be a man. Live life to the fullest and do things that you love to do, be passionate about them. If you are confident about your life and enjoy it, people will see it and women will be attracted to you. They don't want you to be "perfect" for them, in fact this is the fastest way to loose a woman. They want you to live your life with purpose and passion with them being somewhere down on the list of things you care about. They want you to lead, to show them the way, to open them up completely and make them surrender into you. And that will only happen if they know you are stronger then they are - mentally, physically and emotionally. They will test the shit out of you to find out if you are strong enough, because if you can't stand up to them, you possible won't stand up to others as well.

 

You are bitter about women because you think they are messed up and can't be figured out. Well, you are right, but guess what? You don't need to figure them out, all you need is to figure out yourself and become a master of your own reality. You are the expression of Yang to her always-moving Yin, and that's how Karezza and other love making methods become successful. You will have to become the perfect masculine representation in the body, mind and spirit. If you can, you will be able to open her heart and let her surrender to you.

 

Have you ever been with a woman that surrenders to you completely? Then you will see the true expression of feminine and it's nothing what you say it is. But to see it you have to open it with your masculine, and most men fail to do that for many different reasons, and then they blame women because they are not feminine enough with them.

 

Non, the only way to a woman's heart is through yours. Become a true representation of masculine and most of the women will be drawn to you. Cultivate your spirit, your body and your skills to deal with life to create a perfect world for yourself and you will become a master of your own life. If your life is a mess, and your heart/mind/body are weak, don't expect quality women to be attracted to you.

 

It's not them, it's you.

[Non]

If your life is a mess, and your heart/mind/body are weak, don't expect quality women to be attracted to you.

 

Actually don't expect ANY woman to be attracted to you. Yes even the "lower than average" ones expect you to be perfect.

 

Why should a person who is on the spiritual path be judged by the same criteria a non spiritual person is? Wouldn't it change something? A spiritual person might have different characteristics than say a careless 'authoritative thug' or some kind PUA who only trains his appearance and appears authoritative.

 

 

Spiritual people are shunned by society, of course he might have some trouble with the crowd, with the rest society, etc. He's different. So why is he judged with the same criteria as a worldly person? Wouldn't a spiritual person be somewhat more evolved than the others at least in other aspects that have nothing to do with the violence and brutality of this world? Maybe he's more mature, and can work on himself with some kung fu training. I train in kung fu also.

 

But the fact of the matter is the only reason I feel like shit most of the time is because I cannot get one woman to look at me like I'm normal or treat me like the other men. It's not because I'm not tough, or don't have the capability of being just as tough, because I can be. Its just discouraging to be as alone as I am. THIS is what's discouraging. THIS is what's disheartening.

 

Not the thugs who I can outgun, or can beat up.

 

Remember also: there is the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system.

 

We are not always running away from fuckin tigers and bears. We have different stresses in our modern day society that don't include lions tigers and bears. our biology reacts to these stressors as if they WERE lions and tigers and bears, in a sympathetic way.

 

Ultimately it is the people who can balance the two types of nervous systems to their advantage that ultimately are the most evolved yet...

 

who gets the most female attention? The sympathetic dominant types it seems.

 

So you can keep spouting all the new age sexist crap like from David Deida and all you're just saying is the same thing we've been saying for thousands of years which we haven't missed out on hearing: grow some f-ing balls!

 

YET STILL we don't even require the same types of "balls" that fighting lions tigers and bears utilized. Sure you can man up but don't make it seem as if we are dealing with the same stresses we had in the ancient days. You're still just being a bully.

 

The amount of psychological castration. We can't just do things without having consequences either... you can't defend yourself without fearing police harassment either. We are expected to live as civilized human beings. This requires another skillset than just "being tough, growing balls, etc"

Edited May 17, 2011 by Non

[Enishi]

Several years ago when I was much more focused on my writing I actually had several very hot women express interest me, but sadly, due to the stupid Christian programming I still had at the time, I didn't make any moves. When you're devoted to a passion which isn't directly related to romance, women notice.

 

Non, seriously, I think you obsess too much over abstract thoughts. Abstract yang thinking can be both a very powerful tool and a very powerful prison.

 

For example: "80% of the acres in this forest have only black crows, therefore trying to find white crows here is mostly futile."

 

On an abstract level this is a decent description, but it can also be binding. In conversation and inner thought, "80% of crows here are black" becomes "Crows in this forest are black". More emotional types will yell "No way not all crows are black!", forgetting that it's just a generalized description used for the sake of ease and brevity and that it isn't always necessary to put PC qualifiers like "some" "many" "not all all" in every sentence.

 

However, "crows are black" still has a binding power over your mind if you repeat it too much. To escape the binding affect abstract thoughts can have on your reality, stop thinking so much about whether the crows are black or white!

Edited May 17, 2011 by Enishi

[JustARandomPanda]

Wow,

 

From all the Beta-Male talk in this thread I'm getting flashbacks. For a while there I thought I was lurking Thundersplace.org again.

 

 

Non,

 

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone in your pain. Believe it or not there are female equivalents to you. You know...the lonely chic who seldom has had the luxury of having men approach her or express interest in her. And they're just as bitter. Except the griping is all coming from the opposite direction. And often about the hidden prejudices men tend to hold about women.

 

Here's just a few I've seen on assorted forums over the years:

 

"It's all about looks - if you're carrying more than a few extra pounds - forget it."

 

"Even older guys prefer younger women than me." [note: I saw this behavior in my own father. Though he himself was in his 60s he refused to date any woman who was 40 or over. I was only a few years away from turning 40 myself. It was *VERY* disheartening to see up close and personal how prejudiced men can be about aging in women.]

 

 

 

Those are just a select few I've seen. And sometimes felt myself. It's not good. It leads to Man-Hating (the flip-side to the Woman-Hating you've been doing in this thread). The belief that men are the sex that really have it sweet in life though most don't realize it. I should know. I used to have it bad. As bad as you do now.

 

Approximately 95% of the CEOs and executives of corporations are men. Approximately 95% of the assets owned in the world are owned by men. The vast majority of politicians and world leaders are men. So-called beta males - though they do not have the extreme wealth or influence of the top 1% - nevertheless also have a share in the respect that comes with the birthright of being born a man. When a man fucks around he is seldom chastised and sometimes lauded. But If a woman does she is scorned or worse in some countries, killed.

 

Because a man can always - if necessity makes it so - increase his income and assets but a woman's worth to men declines with every birthday calendar she attains. I saw one man make this exact argument to a woman who was only 24. He pointed out that men almost universally (unless they really F* up) increase in worth and value to the female population - "both hotties and notties" - all the moreso since women outnumber men as the age brackets begin to increase. Even if his wealth did not increase, just stayed the same, his value increases as the competition from other men gets slimmer as the years roll by.

 

She, he pointed out, would only ever have her highest worth to men at the age she was right then - at 24 with her youth and beauty. From here on out he said, she was going to decline in value and that decline picks up rapidly once she hit 35 and would really take a nosedive at 40. His meanwhile would increase and could continue to do so so long as he was willing to put in the work and effort. The thinning number of available men as he grew older only tipped the scales to available-men's advantage vis-a-vis available-women that much more. And he pointed out men typically don't give a rat's ass about a woman's wealth, they want her looks (they don't restrict their porn-viewing to women with hefty bank accounts for example). But women generally do value a man's wealth whether they were a hottie or a nottie.

 

Gotta admit I was feeling pretty damn angry at all men when I saw that little exchange. Ok. Actually it *still* pisses me off royally when I think about it.

 

Now...whether one actually agrees there is truth or not to what that man told that 24 year old is up for debate. I happen to think there is at least some truth to what he said but life has enough wiggle room that there will always be exceptions.

 

I spent my 40th birthday lying alone in my bed, staring at the ceiling, wondering if I would ever be able to find any man anywhere in the world to want and love me with the deck so stacked against me. I had visions of seeing myself cremated and being so unloved, unnoticed and unmourned my ashes were put in a trashcan and carried out to a dumpster and that consisted of my "memorial service". It certainly did not help that I have direct memories of watching my own father bitch about and actually reject women who were 40 as being "too old" who had come on to him . And he is not an "alpha male" by any stretch of the imagination. If my father - who is a beta-male - felt that way about women over 40, what hope was there for me?

 

BTW - In all these decades not once have I ever found a man who wanted to marry me though it was not for lack on my part. And so I felt much as you do. Just coming at it from the opposite direction.

 

There are times I still think that way. Thankfully most of the time I don't. It may yet be true that I will die alone and unloved. The jury is still out. But I do know this. Sitting around and thinking dark thoughts about it was making my life miserable and the sole person it was hurting was me.

 

I am not trying to say what you are feeling is wrong. What we feel is what we feel. It just is what it is.

 

But I will admit I am curious. You have a history of posting of your loneliness to Taobums (and I'm guessing other forums as well). What do you think you are accomplishing by doing so? Are you trying to reach out to other men? Are you trying to reach out to women? What is it that posting about the same subject yet again is going to do for you? The same people keep answering you and their advice goes in one ear and out the other. I know how that goes. I've been down that road too. We don't like hearing advice from people who've not walked in our own down-and-out-shoes.

 

*starts humming the tune to Everlast's

e*

[King Kabalabhati]

Just as an anecdote that touches this subject somewhat...

 

I divorced a while ago. Both me and the ex-wife are at our 30's. Now am seeing a 24-year old girl. Very young eh?

 

My wife's new boyfriend is 21

 

:D

 

 

(the lesson: freaks don't care about conventionality, and there's plenty of em out there)

[Non]

Wow,

 

From all the Beta-Male talk in this thread I'm getting flashbacks. For a while there I thought I was lurking Thundersplace.org again.

 

 

Non,

 

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone in your pain. Believe it or not there are female equivalents to you. You know...the lonely chic who seldom has had the luxury of having men approach her or express interest in her. And they're just as bitter. Except the griping is all coming from the opposite direction. And often about the hidden prejudices men tend to hold about women.

 

Here's just a few I've seen on assorted forums over the years:

 

"It's all about looks - if you're carrying more than a few extra pounds - forget it."

 

"Even older guys prefer younger women than me." [note: I saw this behavior in my own father. Though he himself was in his 60s he refused to date any woman who was 40 or over. I was only a few years away from turning 40 myself. It was *VERY* disheartening to see up close and personal how prejudiced men can be about aging in women.]

 

 

 

Those are just a select few I've seen. And sometimes felt myself. It's not good. It leads to Man-Hating (the flip-side to the Woman-Hating you've been doing in this thread). The belief that men are the sex that really have it sweet in life though most don't realize it. I should know. I used to have it bad. As bad as you do now.

 

Approximately 95% of the CEOs and executives of corporations are men. Approximately 95% of the assets owned in the world are owned by men. The vast majority of politicians and world leaders are men. So-called beta males - though they do not have the extreme wealth or influence of the top 1% - nevertheless also have a share in the respect that comes with the birthright of being born a man. When a man fucks around he is seldom chastised and sometimes lauded. But If a woman does she is scorned or worse in some countries, killed.

 

Because a man can always - if necessity makes it so - increase his income and assets but a woman's worth to men declines with every birthday calendar she attains. I saw one man make this exact argument to a woman who was only 24. He pointed out that men almost universally (unless they really F* up) increase in worth and value to the female population - "both hotties and notties" - all the moreso since women outnumber men as the age brackets begin to increase. Even if his wealth did not increase, just stayed the same, his value increases as the competition from other men gets slimmer as the years roll by.

 

She, he pointed out, would only ever have her highest worth to men at the age she was right then - at 24 with her youth and beauty. From here on out he said, she was going to decline in value and that decline picks up rapidly once she hit 35 and would really take a nosedive at 40. His meanwhile would increase and could continue to do so so long as he was willing to put in the work and effort. The thinning number of available men as he grew older only tipped the scales to available-men's advantage vis-a-vis available-women that much more. And he pointed out men typically don't give a rat's ass about a woman's wealth, they want her looks (they don't restrict their porn-viewing to women with hefty bank accounts for example). But women generally do value a man's wealth whether they were a hottie or a nottie.

 

Gotta admit I was feeling pretty damn angry at all men when I saw that little exchange. Ok. Actually it *still* pisses me off royally when I think about it.

 

Now...whether one actually agrees there is truth or not to what that man told that 24 year old is up for debate. I happen to think there is at least some truth to what he said but life has enough wiggle room that there will always be exceptions.

 

I spent my 40th birthday lying alone in my bed, staring at the ceiling, wondering if I would ever be able to find any man anywhere in the world to want and love me with the deck so stacked against me. I had visions of seeing myself cremated and being so unloved, unnoticed and unmourned my ashes were put in a trashcan and carried out to a dumpster and that consisted of my "memorial service". It certainly did not help that I have direct memories of watching my own father bitch about and actually reject women who were 40 as being "too old" who had come on to him . And he is not an "alpha male" by any stretch of the imagination. If my father - who is a beta-male - felt that way about women over 40, what hope was there for me?

 

BTW - In all these decades not once have I ever found a man who wanted to marry me though it was not for lack on my part. And so I felt much as you do. Just coming at it from the opposite direction.

 

There are times I still think that way. Thankfully most of the time I don't. It may yet be true that I will die alone and unloved. The jury is still out. But I do know this. Sitting around and thinking dark thoughts about it was making my life miserable and the sole person it was hurting was me.

 

I am not trying to say what you are feeling is wrong. What we feel is what we feel. It just is what it is.

 

But I will admit I am curious. You have a history of posting of your loneliness to Taobums (and I'm guessing other forums as well). What do you think you are accomplishing by doing so? Are you trying to reach out to other men? Are you trying to reach out to women? What is it that posting about the same subject yet again is going to do for you? The same people keep answering you and their advice goes in one ear and out the other. I know how that goes. I've been down that road too. We don't like hearing advice from people who've not walked in our own down-and-out-shoes.

 

*starts humming the tune to Everlast's

e*

 

Thanks for that post. Yea it's messed up.. can you believe I didn't even know or come to stop and think about these things until you told me?

 

Well.. I know why these women get bitter and men get bitter. Because humans need touch.. there is somewhat of a chemical dependency for it. Marnia Robinson made a post about it here: http://www.reuniting...you_skin_hungry

 

Well I definitely relate to that. I think it's more than just skin of course. IT can be expanded to just male/female interaction that is loving and accepting of one another. That is also "touching".

 

Also, when it comes to average women or women "with a few extra lbs" I kinda don't care. Maybe it's just because I'm young and inexperienced who knows. But that may be just me. She can be a little overweight, etc. it's all good. And we all can change. When we're together we can even motivate each other to improve. Many people are still stuck where they are because they have no drive and they are lonely, depressed.

 

I don't deny anything you've said but having said all that gives a lot of women the idea that they have a right to be selfish. In fact.. my TCM prof said women are by nature more selfish than men: it's normal for her to be selfish while for guys it's not. Then he explained why from a TCM point of view.

 

Ok, so what if it's only because of the history of denial and hurt of women that she is this way? Ok it's possible too. But still... seeing all this and then my story doesn't make much sense does it?

 

Well it seems though that if women wanted to do anything now becuase of her history she can do just about anythnig and people will agree with her because: "women were denied, cheated, opressed" etc.

 

Then there are men who would say that in history the society was just patriarchal yet this doesn't mean women were opressed because "beta males" could be just as opressed. And like he said it was just a "patriarchal society".

 

....

 

I dunno, matriarchal, patriarchal. They probably both suck...

 

but I would like to know how it is to be in a matriarchal society. Bonobo chimps are matriarchal.. most people think it would be the same as patriarchal except with women. Do you really think this would be the case? What if it would be more spiritual? I dunno.

 

Then of course there is the theory that we were all ruled by giant humans (the annunaki) who had superior sexual capability than the human males, and they fucked and mindfucked the human female population and spoiled them, taught them the secrets to multiple orgasms and non-ejaculatory orgasms. Meanwhile the human males were beta, and then the ETs left and you had males (incapable of multiple orgasms, higher knowledge, etc) who didn't know how to satisfy women sexually except for probably a few, and a lot of demanding women so then what happened? Men became fearful and instilled patriarchy. End of story. And some of those ETs might have stayed around, or their siblings.

 

And it's been messed up ever since.

 

www.multiorgasmic.com/rephaim.htm

 

Jajajaja...

 

crazy

Edited May 17, 2011 by Non

[Non]

They will test the shit out of you to find out if you are strong enough, because if you can't stand up to them, you possible won't stand up to others as well.

 

 

You said possibly. Standing up to a woman is a lot different than standing up to a man. With women you have to be careful.

 

Also, women are by nature more selfish than men. It's normal for women to be selfish and abnormal for men to even ask for anything at all. How fair is that?

 

Do women know when to stop asking for things? How can ONE MAN provide for all a woman's egotistic desires? It's impossible! Only an enlightened female master would be able to detach from her ego such that she doesn't ask for too much because by nature the human ego ALWAYS wants more than what it can have. It's the reason why buddhists want to abolish craving leads to the end of suffering.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Non

[Sloppy Zhang]

I saw this, Non, and thought of you:

 

 

Then I came across this quote:

 

"We've got no place in this outfit for good losers. We want tough hombres who will go in there and win!" Admiral Jonas Ingram, 1926

[Non]

You said possibly. Standing up to a woman is a lot different than standing up to a man. With women you have to be careful.

 

Also, women are by nature more selfish than men. It's normal for women to be selfish and abnormal for men to even ask for anything at all. How fair is that?

 

Do women know when to stop asking for things? How can ONE MAN provide for all a woman's egotistic desires? It's impossible! Only an enlightened female master would be able to detach from her ego such that she doesn't ask for too much because by nature the human ego ALWAYS wants more than what it can have. It's the reason why buddhists want to abolish craving leads to the end of suffering.

 

 

To be unenlightened is to be immoral. To cause suffering and to be suffering. It's no wonder that it's true badboys get more women and have more in life. Because the majority are unenlightened and "the path" is a "hard" one.

 

I wish enlightenment was the prerequisite to life... because otherwise life is just suffering and sucks and immoral to even be alive. It requires that one be immoral.

 

This is why soemtimes I say to myself maybe I should just be celibate my whole life.. and anyways I am involuntarily celibate so I'll just continue staying alive.. because to have success in the sexual arena is to be a part of this suffering, and to cause suffering.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Non

[Non]

this is the crossroad: it's either stay like a 'normal human' and be bad, and get laid.. or stay like a normal human, don't be bad, be "good" and don't get laid.

 

Or do what is right and just, and become enlightened and be above and beyond all of that.

 

which may even take several if not hundreds or thousands of lifetimes when you don't ahve the best "methods".

Edited May 17, 2011 by Non

[Sloppy Zhang]

this is the crossroad: it's either stay like a 'normal human' and be bad, and get laid.. or stay like a normal human, don't be bad, be "good" and don't get laid.

 

Or do what is right and just, and become enlightened and be above and beyond all of that.

 

But you said you don't want to just get laid. That you don't want to have meaningless sex. So what do you care?

 

Sex is not inherently immoral. Being in relationships with women is not inherently immoral. Having fun is not inherently immoral. Being a good person does not make you unable to have any of those things.

 

which may even take several if not hundreds or thousands of lifetimes when you don't ahve the best "methods".

 

So what methods do you have, and what methods would you rather have?

[JustARandomPanda]

Also, women are by nature more selfish than men. It's normal for women to be selfish and abnormal for men to even ask for anything at all. How fair is that?

 

Non,

 

That hasn't been my experience at all. One guy I know has zero problems asking women for money which he then never pays back. He still owes me and many other women (I found out later) plenty of money. When I quit paying his way for everything everywhere our "friendship" was over too. And that's only one example of a man looking out for numero uno. I can list plenty of others from personal experience too.

 

I suspect for every example you could cite in your own life I could match it with one from mine coming from the opposite direction. No...I take that back. You're still young. You aren't as old, used up and bitter as I've been (at least not yet). I bet I've got decades of examples of men being "naturally" selfish.

 

I think the more technically accurate way to state it is that people will use us if we let them. Men and women - both sexes will do so.

 

My guess is that men don't use you because you don't allow them to. You don't want anything from them bad enough the way you do from women. If you did I assure you you'd be singing a different tune. Go listen to gay men griping about other gay men using them. Not a female in sight and still the complaints of being used and abused roll in. I can even supply you with a forum if you doubt me. It happens because it's a people trait, not a gender one.

 

Life can potentially be shitty all around for both sexes. No one gender has a lock-grip on being shit-upon more badly than the other. The whole argument guys like to hold up of women going after "alphas" despite being treated like shit partly rests upon acknowledging that women do in fact get shit-upon quite regularly by "naturally selfish" men too. I would submit one doesn't even need to be an alpha to treat a woman poorly if she lets him.

 

The danger comes when you want something so badly from the other person you're willing to trade your soul away for it. But the soul always knows and the backlash is drowning in an ocean of bitterness. This is the reality I woke up to. Life can suck for both genders. No one sex has it better by default at getting something from their opposite than the other. That's one reason why sweeping generalizations are acknowledged to be a poor logic and argumentation device in debates. Even one example to the contrary destroys your proposition. How much moreso when life supplies thousands of them?

 

I understand though where you are coming from. Emotion is speaking, not logic. If logic were making these claims it would also be amenable to factual evidence to the contrary. The fact that this has not happened should clue you in that emotion is what's driving it and emotion-beliefs are typically impervious to correction by facts or logic. Hence the reason Sloppy Zang's and everyone else's advice to you falls on deaf ears.

 

That's why I asked what keeps propelling you to post obsessively about this same topic? Whom is it you are trying to persuade? And if you do persuade what will you gain from it? A woman's loving touch?

 

You and those gay men of the forum I mentioned have far more in common than you might believe.