Big Mind Big Heart

[Jetsun]

I first heard of this process Big Mind a few years ago but was initially put off because Ken Wilber described it with what I thought was completely over the top praise saying it was the next turning of the wheel of the Dharma and the most important Buddhist method created for hundreds of years etc, but I wish I had cast my prejudices aside earlier as I tried it recently and was quite surprised at how well it worked and how profoundly easy it is.

 

It's a Zen method but it basically it starts as a form of Voice Dialogue therapy, which is like a sort of psychological enquiry method where you get asked to talk to different parts of your psyche such as the protector, the controller, the skeptic, desire, the wounded part, inner child etc, which in itself can bring a lot of insight and compassion to your ego. But then he goes on to ask to talk to the non seeking mind, the way, then your big mind and then your big heart, complete heart-mind, then the master. What was surprising was that just by asking to speak to these part of you in that way could enable you to access them without any effort or striving and by working with the ego parts before hand you actually get permission from the controlling ego parts to go there rather than struggling with them for hours on end.

 

Just by asking in this way you can access your limitless mind and limitless heart, but what was also interesting is that they divided your heart into Yin compassion and Yang compassion and you could really feel the difference in them, I haven't heard of anyone dividing the heart that way before but it made a lot of sense in the experience.

 

So I was wondering if anyone else has tried this process Big Mind Big heart and what they think of it? I don't think it is the next turning of the wheel of the Dharma but it's an interesting experience and I recommend people try it if they can.

[Seth Ananda]

Hey Jetsun

I have been using it for a few years, and sometimes with students.

First I think its a very valuable tool, as well as voice dialogue, for quickly accessing expanded states of consciousness in an undeniable full contact manner. I would not necessarily recommend driving after a big Mind session. lol.

 

It did get a lot of hype at first. I think people were so surprised that it works so quickly on anyone, giving them such a dramatic shift in consciousness. That said, It in no way replaces serious meditation and proper work. I have heard all kind of ridiculous things said about the process, such as it is enlightenment...

Sure compared to everyday consciousness its a very expanded state, but its still nothing on a genuine mystical state.

 

Second, Genpo has received a lot of flac for trying to present it as a form of Zen, which it is not. It is his creation from voice dialogue with bits of eastern Jargon, thrown in. Voice dialogue itself regularly goes to similar states, but it follows the client and their personal/transpersonal elements, rather than funnelling them down a track towards a specific state/outcome.

 

Ironicly Voice dialogue [to me] seems more Buddhist, as the aim is to meet all the internal structures, observe them, and in doing so gain a certain space or freedom from them.

Big Mind on the other hand focuses you down a line with the goal being an expanded state, that may well be training attachment to a particular mental state in the practitioner. lol.

 

Still its a great technique

 

Have Fun! Seth.

[Kris]

So I was wondering if anyone else has tried this process Big Mind Big heart and what they think of it? I don't think it is the next turning of the wheel of the Dharma but it's an interesting experience and I recommend people try it if they can.

 

I used to practice Big Mind quite a bit. When you have done it a few times it gets easier to access the "non-dual states" fast and to bring them of the meditation seat and into the world.

 

I agree that it's not the next turning of the wheel, but it's a good preview of higher states of development. It kind of pries open the door to non dual states in a fast and gentle way. Fast and gentle isn't something you get everyday in this game.

 

Since Big Mind is so easy to do I don't see why anybody shouldn't do it at least once. The basic practice used to be available on youtube and/or on the bigmind.org website for free.

 

 

- Kris

[Jetsun]

Hi Seth and Kris, I agree I don't think it is the next turning of the wheel or dharma or anything like that but I am liking the process especially the voice dialogue aspect which seems like quite a good way to bring compassion and awareness to your ego states very quickly. It's a promising process for addressing your wounds and shadow because there is fluidity in moving in and out of these states and they can be looked at within the context of your big heart and big mind so those states are not so overwhelming or troublesome when looked at from an expanded state.

 

There are some videos on YouTube but I think some of it has been taken down as there is some sort of scandal around the Roshi at the moment and quite a lot of criticism going his way from the zen community, which is typical as soon as I get interested in something it looses some of it's credibility, but in this case it can be valuable to separate the teacher from the teaching in my opinion as I think it could be a valuable method for many people. I learned the process from a DVD I downloaded and a book on the subject so there is no need to fork out a fortune to learn the process.

[C T]

Hi Seth and Kris, I agree I don't think it is the next turning of the wheel or dharma or anything like that but I am liking the process especially the voice dialogue aspect which seems like quite a good way to bring compassion and awareness to your ego states very quickly. It's a promising process for addressing your wounds and shadow because there is fluidity in moving in and out of these states and they can be looked at within the context of your big heart and big mind so those states are not so overwhelming or troublesome when looked at from an expanded state.

 

There are some videos on YouTube but I think some of it has been taken down as there is some sort of scandal around the Roshi at the moment and quite a lot of criticism going his way from the zen community, which is typical as soon as I get interested in something it looses some of it's credibility, but in this case it can be valuable to separate the teacher from the teaching in my opinion as I think it could be a valuable method for many people. I learned the process from a DVD I downloaded and a book on the subject so there is no need to fork out a fortune to learn the process.

The scandals are typical of 'small' (i like the term 'drying') minds at play, Mr Jetsun.

 

Already the process shines a light on itself, that it works. Keep it up, and wade thru the 'debris', just like the lotus flower.

[Aaron]

Hello Jetsun,

 

This is a very interesting approach. One of the topics I did extensive research on in college was dissociative identity disorder, at the time called multiple personality disorder. Dissociative Identity Disorder is a disorder characterized by a splintering of the ego (or self) into separate ego-states (almost invariably caused by extreme trauma in early childhood). Most of these states serve a specific purpose, like the protector, or the ego-state that deals with pain, etc. The degree of complexity of each personality/ego state differs, in other words, some appear to be complete ego states, while others are relatively simple states. Now why I mention all of this is that in nearly every case of DID it is found that there is one distinct personality that is aware of everything and seems to possess a higher degree of wisdom or emotional balance than the others. (Also, as an aside, keep in mind also that in a large number of cases these ego-states have different physical characteristics than the actual main personality/ego, such as allergies, blood pressure, eye prescriptions, and handedness.)

 

Now for the interesting part, as research was done into the disorder it was found that under hypnosis psychologists were able to reproduce DID in perfectly normal people. In other words they were able to create ego-states, in some instances rather complex ones. The other thing they found was that in creating these ego-states there also seemed to be that one distinct ego state that was aware of everything and seemed to possess more wisdom or emotional maturity.

 

The reason I brought this up is because what you are talking about makes complete sense when you consider that hypnosis, dreaming, and meditation are very similar states of consciousness. It seems to make sense to me that if one could create (or maybe access states that are normally not accessible on a conscious level) using hypnosis, that one could also do this using meditation.

 

Anyways, interesting stuff (at least I find it interesting). I wouldn't mind learning more about the approach if you could put up some links regarding it.

 

Aaron

Edited May 5, 2011 by Twinner

[Jetsun]

Hello Jetsun,

 

This is a very interesting approach. One of the topics I did extensive research on in college was dissociative identity disorder, at the time called multiple personality disorder. Dissociative Identity Disorder is a disorder characterized by a splintering of the ego (or self) into separate ego-states (almost invariably caused by extreme trauma in early childhood). Most of these states serve a specific purpose, like the protector, or the ego-state that deals with pain, etc. The degree of complexity of each personality/ego state differs, in other words, some appear to be complete ego states, while others are relatively simple states. Now why I mention all of this is that in nearly every case of DID it is found that there is one distinct personality that is aware of everything and seems to possess a higher degree of wisdom or emotional balance than the others. (Also, as an aside, keep in mind also that in a large number of cases these ego-states have different physical characteristics than the actual main personality/ego, such as allergies, blood pressure, eye prescriptions, and handedness.)

 

Now for the interesting part, as research was done into the disorder it was found that under hypnosis psychologists were able to reproduce DID in perfectly normal people. In other words they were able to create ego-states, in some instances rather complex ones. The other thing they found was that in creating these ego-states there also seemed to be that one distinct ego state that was aware of everything and seemed to possess more wisdom or emotional maturity.

 

Yes with DID (as with most other psychological problems) it is an exaggeration of what people consider normal state of being, so all people have multiple personalities within them yet there is fluidity and not too much conflict between the different parts of your psyche and no severe dissociation between the parts so you are not considered ill, but even the average "healthy" person isn't unified most of the time.

 

Within the Big mind or Voice Dialogue process you converse with some of the main parts and what you discover is that there is a part of you which they call the controller/protector which is doing it's best to try to unify you, be in control and protect your vulnerability, but also when you move into non dual parts at the end you discover another part which they call the "master" which is similar to what you describe of a part being calm and collected, sitting in the background aware of everything that's going on. So we all have that wise master within us right now we just aren't aware of it most of the time and live through our stressed controller/protector part instead.

 

I think the Sufi Poem by Attar 'Conference of the Birds' talks about this , how the different birds representing the different parts of the psyche don't have a real leader so they go in search of a mythical bird to make their king.

 

Anyways, interesting stuff (at least I find it interesting). I wouldn't mind learning more about the approach if you could put up some links regarding it.

 

Aaron

 

I have learned it more through books and a torrent dvd but there is some content on Genpo Roshi's website http://bigmind.org/teachings/

 

The area of voice dialogue is what im a bit more interested in that moment, there is some info here http://delos-inc.com/reading-stone.htm

[ralis]

He wants megabucks for those teachings. Anywhere from 1000-3000/ day. Absurd!

[Jetsun]

He wants megabucks for those teachings. Anywhere from 1000-3000/ day. Absurd!

 

Yes I agree it is absurd considering that it consists of a sort of group therapy session and the teaching is not complicated, I would never pay anything like that.

[ralis]

Here is one interesting critique that mentions the rapid enlightenment that is promised by the "Big Mind" guru.

 

http://homepage.mac.com/doubtboy/WhatTheBleepPart2.html

 

http://fredericklenzfoundation.org/Buddhism/Grants/Big-Mind.htm Funded and supported by the Frederick Lenz folks. Another fake guru who committed suicide.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lenz

[Otis]

It's a Zen method but it basically it starts as a form of Voice Dialogue therapy, which is like a sort of psychological enquiry method where you get asked to talk to different parts of your psyche such as the protector, the controller, the skeptic, desire, the wounded part, inner child etc, which in itself can bring a lot of insight and compassion to your ego. But then he goes on to ask to talk to the non seeking mind, the way, then your big mind and then your big heart, complete heart-mind, then the master. What was surprising was that just by asking to speak to these part of you in that way could enable you to access them without any effort or striving and by working with the ego parts before hand you actually get permission from the controlling ego parts to go there rather than struggling with them for hours on end.

My dad, a professor of the neuropsychology of consciousness, has written extensively about how different brain structures/pathways act almost like separate brains, that each has its own function and form of consciousness, and each is "in control" at some point or another. So it makes a lot of sense to me, to speak to each part individually, getting us away from the pretense that the "I" is the whole thing.