Help I seem to be addicted to Zhan zhuang

[Mal]

Well the title basically said it all. I've never really done much standing practice. But recently I ended up doing higher duties at work and that involves supervision. Usually I just tune out the office noise but I have to listen now, just incase it's important noise, so I really appreciate just taking a break from the conversation. I've been setting my alarm for 10 min, just going outside, and standing.

 

The tranquility of standing has quickly become quite addictive I've even switched my lunchtime Tai Chi session over to 25 min of standing for a bit as I'm just loving it.

 

But I want MORE!! 10 min isn't enough. 25min feels good but as soon as I walk off I just want to go back!

 

I had the same issues with always wanting to do more Kunlun and pinching bits and pieces of time throughout the day to get a bit. So I'm use to this feeling, just felt like sharing.

 

I actually emailed the above to myself April 14th so that I could post it here Never enough time to fit everything in, not helped by enjoying standing around doing nothing several times a day!

 

I am back doing Tai Chi at lunchtime, but now sneaking in 15 min of standing in the morning and afternoon. It's still very enjoyable.

[YMWong]

I actually emailed the above to myself April 14th so that I could post it here Never enough time to fit everything in, not helped by enjoying standing around doing nothing several times a day!

 

I am back doing Tai Chi at lunchtime, but now sneaking in 15 min of standing in the morning and afternoon. It's still very enjoyable.

 

Mal,

 

may I suggest that you do no less then 40-45 minutes in a single session instead of two separate short sessions?

Short sessions like that are close to useless in zhanzhuang, in my opinion/experience

 

YM

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Fx for Zhan Zhuang addiction: Shaking practice.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[zerostao]

interesting 20 minutes or 45 minutes. in a standing posture 20 minutes is usually my idea. but then i may go to the next standing posture.

45 minutes to an hour is what i usually play with in any other specific game.

i.e. 45 minutes of circle walking. or 45 minutes of iron palm/bamboo palm.

 

maybe it is different for each of us? one size does not fit all idea.

i remember when 7 minutes seemed like a long time to be in a static posture.

and when i first started it was the number of breaths not minutes i was counting.

[RiverSnake]

Ahh the art of doing nothing

 

-I feel the same way about meditation whenever i get into it don't feel like doing anything else. There is so much pleasure in just closing my eyes and relaxing into nothingness.

[adept]

Mal,

 

may I suggest that you do no less then 40-45 minutes in a single session instead of two separate short sessions?

Short sessions like that are close to useless in zhanzhuang, in my opinion/experience

 

YM

 

A word of warning on overdoing zz

 

'' We do not practice ‘stillness’ [jing gong']. ‘Stillness’ can refer to posture holding, as in zhan zhuang; it can also refer to practices where thought stops or the intention is focused on one place. Of course, zhan zhuang must be practiced; as the saying has it ‘practicing martial arts without holding postures is just but messing around’. San Ti, in particular, encapsulates the postural requirements of xingyi. ‘Of the myriad methods, none leaves San Ti’ ‘Mastering San Ti is halfway to success’. Whilst San Ti should not be held for long periods, it can be done several times a day. Each time you hold San Ti, you should only hold it for a maximum of 10 minutes, but this could be repeated two or three times a day. If you hold San Ti for an hour everytime you train, not only are you losing precious training time, it can also damage the nerves and capillaries in the legs. Overdoing zhan zhuang is one of the reasons why a lot of martial artists suffer leg and knee problems.''

source

Edited May 4, 2011 by adept

[mYTHmAKER]

Mal

Which postures do you do.

[Mal]

^ Currently the Tai Chi Wu Ji posture, as my Sifu taught me that. I have played with some sequences (eg Stand Still be Fit) but I don't feel drawn to practicing them yet. I just seem to be wanting a very ... deep stillness ?

 

Fx for Zhan Zhuang addiction: Shaking practice.

 

No doubt I'll get addicted to that one day too I "play" with shaking a few times a week or so but it's not a practice for me yet.

 

My workmates already think I'm a nutcase with the Sun Salutations, Tai Chi, Kung Fu etc but just standing there doing nothing looks even stranger than the above, perhaps I should try some Arabic mantras or shaking too

 

While I have some experience of different seated meditation time frames, ranging from 5 to 80 min. I don't have enough experience with standing to make a judgment there so thanks for the input

[King Kabalabhati]

Good point, adept.

 

Hi mal. Do you have a teacher that can give modifications to any improper alignments you may be unknowingly generating? Just curious.

 

If you don't stand for very long periods and you stand in the relaxed wuji posture then I wouldn't worry about that. Much more critical is the "office desk" or the "home laptop" posture

 

edit: right now I'm in a terrible slouched posture, I gotta get up!

Edited May 5, 2011 by King Kabalabhati

[mYTHmAKER]

^ Currently the Tai Chi Wu Ji posture, as my Sifu taught me that. I have played with some sequences (eg Stand Still be Fit) but I don't feel drawn to practicing them yet. I just seem to be wanting a very ... deep stillness ?

 

 

 

No doubt I'll get addicted to that one day too I "play" with shaking a few times a week or so but it's not a practice for me yet.

 

My workmates already think I'm a nutcase with the Sun Salutations, Tai Chi, Kung Fu etc but just standing there doing nothing looks even stranger than the above, perhaps I should try some Arabic mantras or shaking too

 

While I have some experience of different seated meditation time frames, ranging from 5 to 80 min. I don't have enough experience with standing to make a judgment there so thanks for the input

 

On a non work day try doing the Wu Ji posture for an hour.

I did an hour for a number of years then I cut back to one half hour five days a week due to time constraints.

I started mixing Wu Ji with other postures which i hold for ten to fifteen minutes each - total one half hour.

My teacher had me hold it for an hour and a half one time. I was stuck- couldn't move.

I would think I will now move my arm or foot but it wouldn't happen.

I had no idea of the time till afterwards. He finally came and moved me.He pulled my arms, slapped my legs and had me walk backwards. Thus my walking backwards thread.

[Sloppy Zhang]

My understanding of correct standing practice is that it uses the natural alignments of your body. The human body really is an amazing, magnificently resilient machine. It can take a lot, because it is meant to deal with a lot.

 

What it CAN'T take is repeated misuse. Many people in modern society are so out of touch with our bodies, that even if we intellectually want to do something (like standing), we might be overriding the natural effectiveness of the body and wind up doing something wrong, hurting us.

 

Internal martial arts and qigong can get REALLY specific in how it uses the alignments of your body. When you are doing standing correctly, you are engaging in every function of your anatomy that is meant to support itself. Your practice strengthens it. It is building upon a good foundation. I highly suggest B.K. Frantzis' book "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" to get some really good info on some alignments used in standing. But you've got to be VERY careful, because since most of us are out of touch with our bodies, when we think we are doing something right, we are not. So teachers are helpful in that respect. To do it alone requires you to be extraordinarily diligent.

 

Now some other martial arts and stuff have developed specific postures which are designed to build strength. These do not necessarily use the same body mechanics that other types of standing, and were made to be a "workout" to develop strength and endurance. They are supposed to be hard to do. So watch out for these, because doing these incorrectly can mess you up too!

[Mal]

Hi mal. Do you have a teacher that can give modifications to any improper alignments you may be unknowingly generating? Just curious.

Hi Rainbow Basically no. Hence my use of the Tai Chi Wu Ji posture as I've had my Sifu correcting my Tai Chi form for 8 years. While he is no longer in town I will see him a few times a year for corrections.

 

What it CAN'T take is repeated misuse.

Yep and

Much more critical is the "office desk" or the "home laptop" posture

I'm more than guilty of fucking myself by slouching from office computer to home computer.

It's little wonder I have back issues When I woke up today I thought "You know I'll just find a weird poster to hang up at work, have a look at TTB then I'm just going to go and stand for an hour and see what it feels like.

 

Standing time = nothing

Net surfin (aka desk slouch) = 3 hours

 

at least its almost time for my lunchtime Tai Chi

[The Golden Void]

Hi Mal

 

Well you fianlly achieved something - been a rare browser for years but this thread made me sign up

 

As always here plenty of folks have advice, strong/black&white opinions and far less have any credentials/qualifications to talk with authority.

 

As an instructor of Master Lam I can say that for sure 25mins aint breaking any records, nor is there anything wrong with doing several small stints - prob helps keep a good posture throughout the day. Wang Xiang Zhai and his students would spend up to 8hrs a day in the Beijing park - so you are a long way short of doing "a lot" right now.

 

Naturally getting some instruction is very useful for anything [especially, ironically, something that sounds like nothing]... even a lesson or two gives you some feel for the basic errors. However if your Tai Chi wu-chi has been seen by a teacher then you are safe there... [it was never well-known but many of the best Tai Chi fighters knew that the secret was to stay with the first posture for rather more than a couple of seconds to build up the internal strength] Also if it feels good and makes you feel good chances are there aint much wrong.

 

And the basic error is tension/concentration/trying to hard ... this is a Chinese Taoist exercise ... gentle and keep practicing as the years roll by.

 

There are some recent videos of Master Lam teaching in the US here - masterlamkamchuen.com - might give you some ideas.

 

Good luck.

 

TGV

Edited May 7, 2011 by The Golden Void

[idquest]

It could be a silly question, but can ZZ posture trigger high blood pressure?

 

I incorporated ZZ in my practice somewhat 4 months ago and enjoyed it a lot. I first stand 20-30 minutes in wuji posture, and then assume 4-5 other postures from Y-Chuan as described in Lam Kam Chuen books. I've got some noticeable results with relaxation and feeling of opening closing.

 

Recently I discovered that simetimes my blood pressure goes pretty high. Strangelly enough, what I feel when the blood pressure is high is very close to what I described to myself as opening-closing.

 

Here is my question, can it be that I confuse high blood pressure with qi effects?

Has anybody actually checked their blood pressure after feeling some spaciness after qigong?

[The Way Is Virtue]

It could be a silly question, but can ZZ posture trigger high blood pressure?

I incorporated ZZ in my practice somewhat 4 months ago and enjoyed it a lot. I first stand 20-30 minutes in wuji posture, and then assume 4-5 other postures from Y-Chuan as described in Lam Kam Chuen books. I've got some noticeable results with relaxation and feeling of opening closing.

Recently I discovered that simetimes my blood pressure goes pretty high. Strangelly enough, what I feel when the blood pressure is high is very close to what I described to myself as opening-closing.

Here is my question, can it be that I confuse high blood pressure with qi effects?

Has anybody actually checked their blood pressure after feeling some spaciness after qigong?

 

Hi idquest. How do you determine that your blood pressure is going pretty high?

Do you focus on anything with your mind when practicing ZZ, or do you just relax your

mind and not focus on anything in particular?

[idquest]

Hi idquest. How do you determine that your blood pressure is going pretty high?

Do you focus on anything with your mind when practicing ZZ, or do you just relax your

mind and not focus on anything in particular?

Well, I check the blood pressure with the monitor, so the pressure does go high.

 

WHen I do wuji, I try to relax muscles and whatever else feels tense, from the top to the bottom.

 

When I do other postures I can incorporate some breathing technic, direct or reverse. I'm going to discontinue this one now because the risks are too high.

[The Way Is Virtue]

Well, I check the blood pressure with the monitor, so the pressure does go high.

WHen I do wuji, I try to relax muscles and whatever else feels tense, from the top to the bottom.

When I do other postures I can incorporate some breathing technic, direct or reverse. I'm going to discontinue this one now because the risks are too high.

 

Ok, yeah, it is probably a good idea to not continue if you have confirmed that it does raise

your blood pressure. The reason I was asking about whether you were focusing your mind on

anything is because focusing on certain points or areas of the body in meditation can apparently

raise blood pressure. When I stand in ZZ I don't focus on anything in particular and just try

to relax my body and mind as much as I can, although I do keep a slight awareness of my lower dantian

area when I first start standing and then just relax my mind and don't think of anything in particular.

I always just breath completely relaxed and naturally as well. I don't have a blood pressure monitor however

so I don't know what effect if any doing ZZ would have on my blood pressure.

[The Golden Void]

Well, I check the blood pressure with the monitor, so the pressure does go high.

 

WHen I do wuji, I try to relax muscles and whatever else feels tense, from the top to the bottom.

 

When I do other postures I can incorporate some breathing technic, direct or reverse. I'm going to discontinue this one now because the risks are too high.

 

Hi idq

 

You say that you do some postures from Master Lams book ... if you do those in the way he describes, then unless you have some pre existing medical problem in this area there should be no problem. However the way he describes in his books strongly emphasises natural breathing - just forget about it - the body will keep breathing.

 

Zhan Zhuang is very powerful - deceptively so. Breathing techniques are very powerful - deceptively so. From your experience you have found that making up your own approach combining material from different places has deleterious side-effects.

 

So simple answer which you have found your own way to is to stick to the prescribed recipe. Done with relaxation you will get (as you found) plenty of benefit

 

kindest

 

TGV

Edited May 10, 2011 by The Golden Void

[johndoe2012]

Regarding high blood pressure, from the Way of Energy p. 171

 

"Word of caution

 

Positions 6 to 9 in this book have a strong effect on your circulatory system and, as with all intense exercise, push up your blood pressure during the period of training. Attempt these positions only if your doctor advises that your normal blood pressure level will permit this.

This is not a problem for positions 1 to 5, the warm ups, or any of the "mentality exercises" (Chapter 2) - in fact these will be positively beneficial for any problem in your cardiovascular system."

 

On p. 183 there is a also a set of exercises to do if you suffer from high blood pressure.

[idquest]

Excellent discussion, thanks everybody.

 

I hope other practitioners won't make my mistakes.

[Mal]

Fx for Zhan Zhuang addiction: Shaking practice.

 

I finally got around to obtaining that book, seems its Kundalini (basically/generally)

 

A Good read.

[Nilo]

Anyone try ZZ with a weighted vest?