EMDR...

[SheepishLord]

Does anybody have any how-to info on EMDR? I want to try it out without researching shit.

 

Thanks!

[karen]

You could cut through the shit by looking at EFT instead. EMDR requires a skilled therapist and it's done in their office; EFT is much more accessible, can be done anywhere, 24/7, right in the middle of the situation. It's a somewhat different form but very similar phenomenon. And it can be done much more simply than the original manual suggests. Applying it takes developing some skill, but almost everyone I teach it to starts to get some good results right from the beginning.

 

One woman had panic attacks going over bridges, and with EFT they were totally gone. That's a typical example.

 

-Karen

[SheepishLord]

You could cut through the shit by looking at EFT instead. EMDR requires a skilled therapist and it's done in their office; EFT is much more accessible, can be done anywhere, 24/7, right in the middle of the situation. It's a somewhat different form but very similar phenomenon. And it can be done much more simply than the original manual suggests. Applying it takes developing some skill, but almost everyone I teach it to starts to get some good results right from the beginning.

 

One woman had panic attacks going over bridges, and with EFT they were totally gone. That's a typical example.

 

-Karen

 

Do you have a link to the tech or are you volunteering to teach it to me?

[Cameron]

I think you mean EPMD. Which is Eric and Parish Making Dollaz.

 

MC Camz

Edited July 19, 2006 by Cameron

[sunshine]

Do you have a link to the tech or are you volunteering to teach it to me?

 

http://www.emofree.com/

 

You can get the free manual there and the dollars spend on the discs (if you want them) are dollars spent well & wise...

[SheepishLord]

I think you mean EPMD. Which is Eric and Parish Making Dollaz.

 

MC Camz

 

EPMD! I used to crank that shit when I lived in Greenpoint and drove a Jeep SUV (I wuz a customer ).

 

Here are some Polish rappers:

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1vc4rtUbgJE&search=polish%20girl

[karen]

Do you have a link to the tech or are you volunteering to teach it to me?

 

It's the kind of thing that looks more complicated in writing than it really is. You can learn the basic protocol in a couple of minutes, by locating the basic 8 acupoints. Beyond that, I do email consulting for a fee

 

The basic tapping protocol can be just the initial "karate chop" point plus the first 8 points listed there - forget the others. Forget the "9 gamut" thingie. Even Gary Craig, the founder of EFT, found that all that was unnecessary, and he streamlined it more and more over the years.

 

Exactly what phrases to say, now that's where you need to get creative. Start with a simple description of a particular problem, for example, "feeling anxious about this exam." The positive affirmation part of it is really not the driving force behind this - it's actually the seemingly "negative' statement, because it's homeopathic, "like cures like."

 

You have a certain energetic blockage, represented by the problem. You give voice to it in a way that removes it, by similar resonance. Hypnotherapy would say that you're inducing a trance to wake up from the existing trance. Either way of looking at it, amounts to the same thing .

 

Where it gets more involved is in the layers of false belief that can be related to a particular problem. You often need to approach it from different angles, and there are many ways to work with it more skillfully, as you become more aware of the larger context and the more hidden beliefs that are supporting the more overt ones. (This is often referred to as the legs of the table, the table being the problem as it appears, and the legs being the underlying beliefs that support it and keep it in place.)

 

I don't remember if the article talked about rating your discomfort level, but that's a good technique to use with this - give your problem or discomfort a 0-10 rating according to intensity. Then after a round of EFT, bring up the original situation in your mind and give it rating again. Repeat as often as needed in order to bring the number down to whatever level you need.

 

You can also do a more stream of consciousness technique, where you tune in to the problem and rattle off thoughts as they come to you.. you'll find that your thoughts become progressively more resourceful, or you'll notice a shift in a different direction, like from depression to anger, that sort of thing. Noticing the subtle shifts is the name of the game.

 

Intro article:

Acu without puncture

 

Best manual for learning more advanced applications of EFT:

EFT manual by Betty-Moore Hafter (Highly recommeded over the original EFT manual by Gary Craig).

 

Play with it and see what interesting stuff can happen .

 

-Karen

[SheepishLord]

http://www.emofree.com/

 

You can get the free manual there and the dollars spend on the discs (if you want them) are dollars spent well & wise...

 

I bought the discs just now. Really cheap!

[karen]

I've seen all the video sets.. some are, um, tedious , but there are good moments.

 

I thought the Specialty Series 2 and Borrowing Benefits were best. Specialty series 2 is various workshops with different presenters - some much better than others.. Best IMO was Steve Wells from Australia (ok, nice looking guy with accent and entertaining stories , demonstrating his "provocative" method. Topic was peak performance, which really applies more broadly to anything.

 

Borrowing Benefits is Gary Craig working with individuals, usually tapping for them, demonstrating a more conversational style of working with EFT. There are instructions prompting you to tap along with the video, hence "borrowing benefits", without having to learn anything beforehand.

 

-Karen

[Trunk]

Does anybody have any how-to info on EMDR? I want to try it out without researching shit.

Here. In therapy its done once you've brought a troubling feeling, memory, etc., to your focus, but you can also do it on a regular basis.

[SheepishLord]

I've seen all the video sets.. some are, um, tedious , but there are good moments.

 

I thought the Specialty Series 2 and Borrowing Benefits were best. Specialty series 2 is various workshops with different presenters - some much better than others.. Best IMO was Steve Wells from Australia (ok, nice looking guy with accent and entertaining stories , demonstrating his "provocative" method. Topic was peak performance, which really applies more broadly to anything.

 

Borrowing Benefits is Gary Craig working with individuals, usually tapping for them, demonstrating a more conversational style of working with EFT. There are instructions prompting you to tap along with the video, hence "borrowing benefits", without having to learn anything beforehand.

 

-Karen

 

Thanks! I bought the DVDs because the claims some of these testimonials make are unreal. Like, serious fucking trauma dissolving really fast. If any of this is true, I will be happily surprised.

 

-Plato

[SheepishLord]

Here. In therapy its done once you've brought a troubling feeling, memory, etc., to your focus, but you can also do it on a regular basis.

 

Thanks! I was doing an Osho darkness meditation, and part of the process is staring at a strobe light in the dark for 15 minutes straight or something like that. After some time I triggered something with the flashes and my eye movements.

 

Thing is, there must be a method (an operating manual for the body) that resets the computer of the mind/body. If you've been following my blog, you know about the technique where you put one hand/fingers/back of hand on the liver and the other on the ureters which is across the lumbar just atop the pelvic bones. Hold this for at least 20 minutes and you will see the liver energy TRANSFORM because it routes the energy out for process/dump. I have protocols for all organs and glands. This stuff is so amazing and is by the CenterIMT peeps.

 

I am hoping there is some sort of system for memories and their associated charges. The Fusion techniques and empty mind meditation are not efficient for this sort of trauma.

 

Another example of this is in the Tibetan esoteric school where buddhas are holding varied finger positions:

 

thumb-forefinger=body

thumb-indexfinger=mind

thumb-ringfinger=spirit

 

There is also pads of fingers versus nails...

 

It is like connecting circuits and some connections will bring on death even. This is just another example and I have still more.

 

The NCR/IMT/Osho trinity I am using right now needs another turbocharger of sorts. I am using a Soloflex WBV platform also twice a day for 15 minutes per session. Go to the www.soloflex.com and check it out.

Edited July 20, 2006 by SheepishLord

[neimad]

thumb-pinkie finger = sex.

 

seriously... try it and see how sexy you feel

 

that and wearing no underwear is good while out doing pickup hahahahaha!

[freeform]

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Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[Trunk]

I am hoping there is some sort of system for memories and their associated charges.

The simple emdr technique in the link I posted does that, quite effectively.

[karen]

Freeform,

 

I agree that EFT may not reach to the deepest level of blockage, as its generally practiced. Heilkunst calls false beliefs the "highest" disease, and ultimately this is what we're dealing with. But the way to remove that is a matter of phenomenon, not particular form. All of these different systems (and I would add transpersonal hypnotherapy, the Core Transformation process, and Holodynamics to the list!) are all different forms that work with the same phenomenon.

 

I think it's just a matter of using a particular form that resonates with you at a particular time, understanding that you can potentially use any of these forms to engage the phenomenon of dismantling the false ego structure.

 

(BTW, the first set of EFT videos shows Gary Craig working with some Vietnam vets at a VA hospital in CA, who had some pretty intense PTSD-type issues, quite dramatic work.)

 

-Karen

[SheepishLord]

EFT is definately very usefull... It takes the charge out of your traumas very quickly and efficiently - but I've found that even though the charge is minimised, the underlying structure is still there - so all it takes is a small change in day to day life and the charge builds back up. This is from my own experience and that of several EFT practitioners.

 

Dont get me wrong - it seems like magic!... traumas that drive you wild inside can be sorted in a couple of minutes. But if you're looking for complete freedom from even the underlying structure (this is particularly usefull for us spiritual types) then the best techniques I've found have been Deep PEAT and Aspectics... You can only really do deep peat with a therapist, but aspectics is the greatest personal tool I've found since taoism... it blows away any technique I've tried previously.

 

oh yeah - forgot to ask... how are you finding the WBV thingy?

 

Is this Aspectics? http://www.digibuy.com/cgi-bin/product.html?109888111656

 

The WBV thingy is great. On Xmas I will weigh myself and see if I increased bone mass.

[VCraigP]

Re the WBV thingy.

 

I have used this just once. Got a new Gym in my little town, 5 minutes away.

They have one of these. I used it post workout to do some standing stretches - 1 legged MA related stretches.

Theory was to add a little instability to get as much of my stabilizers working as possible while doing the active stretch.

 

How do you use it specifically?

 

Craig

[freeform]

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Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[karen]

Freeform,

 

Could you explain how you see the PEAT method as homeopathic?

 

The issue of false polarities that you bring up is an excellent one - the false polarity phenomenon is something I see in so many different contexts wherever false beliefs are rampant.. not to mention politics .

 

If one side of the false polarity is operating, you're really being controlled by the false polarity, no matter which side of the coin is being expressed more overtly. So that perfectionism and procrastination are both trances, in the false ego's world where things are black or white, and both lead to suffering, sort of a "pick your poison" world.

 

I don't see any limitation on how EFT can be applied, though. You can do any kind of process and tap while you're doing it and enhance the results. The way EFT is taught by Gary Craig can be rather limited in scope, but the whole thing can be opened up as far as someone wants to take it.

 

For example you could use EFT on the higher level of judging thoughts that drive the whole procrastination/perfectionism polarity. Often when you work on collapsing one side of it, the other rears its head, and you certainly can be working on those isolated aspects back and forth.

 

But as you follow the natural process, your awareness can shift out of that trance to a more authentic experience which that trance was obscuring. Various hypnotherapy-like approaches can facilitate that.

 

So you can pick almost any place to enter into this process, even if the starting point isn't the highest (or deepest) view.

 

These methods are sort of like software, but even software needs to be driven by the user's "thoughtware." A system is only as good as the organizing structure that gives meaning to it.

 

Karen

[freeform]

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Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[karen]

Thanks for the description. It does sound like it's using the law of similar resonance, like cures like. Associating with the "negative" can be funny, especially when you exaggerate it.. I was just watching Gary Craig work with a woman who was humiliated by something said to her in high school, and Gary gave her a phrase to say, something to the effect of, "I believe everything 16-year old boys say to me" .

 

It can be a fun way to work, finding caracatures of our own false beliefs and giving voice to them. Not quite as subtle is the "mickey mouse voice," which seems to work on the same principle (fears being essentially mickey mouse-like .

 

The homeopathic principle is basically what all trance induction is based on ("pacing"). Although I've never heard it described that way before.

 

Karen

[freeform]

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Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[karen]

Interesting stuff! Lemme think out loud on this. Pacing to me is about introducing some action or thought that is similar to what's being presented. It's not exactly the same, because it's the law of similars, not the law of sames (Sames would be continuing to bang your head against the wall, or doing more addictive behavior, etc.).

 

But pacing induces a kind of trance because it's a narrow focus, and then it's resonating on a similar frequency as what you're working with. If it wasn't similar but was closer to opposite, that can work too, but only works well where the law of opposites has jurisdiction. This has been mapped out very clearly in the realm of disease, although in this "ideogenic" realm of thoughts and beliefs it's not as clearly mapped out yet.

 

But we do know that similars work very well in certain situations, and opposites work in others. An example of opposites would be if you had a false belief and someone just sat you down and told you straight out that your thinking was false, and here's the truth. Sometimes that works, and without "side effects," if the disturbance has not gone deeply enough to become lodged in the somatic realm. But because usually our beliefs are deeply lodged, that use of opposites ("Just do it!"), doesn't work very well and sometimes only adds fuel to the fire.

 

So back to pacing.. and I don't know much about aikido, but I'll see if I can think phenomenologically without needing to know too much about the particular form.. I'd say the opponent's force is like a disease entity that you need to confront and neutralize. It's no longer just a matter of restoring or maintaining balance, which opposites would work well for.

 

If you used opposites there, you would have to introduce some measure of toxicity, the way allopathic meds do (treat bacteria with anti-bacteria, so to speak). And there is always going to be some negative fallout from doing this, because you're suppressing a force that will have to express again in a different form. And we see that disease (or the opponent's force) treated this way just keeps coming back with a vengeance.. and often in a new form that involves more vital organs and functions.

 

But pacing is more like a trojan horse. You're introducing something in a form that your opponent can accept because it has a similar energy. The trojan horse is received well, so you can actually be more aggressive with that approach, and there's no suppression or "side effects."

 

Another metaphor is fighting fire with fire, pacing. A similar fire will engulf the first fire and put it out. But if you throw water on it, there is a tremendous clash of energy (your sense of tension, maybe?), and the fire can actually become stronger. If it was a weak fire, it's just a matter of imbalance which you can correct with opposites. But if it's taken hold, it's now goverened by a different law of nature, and only similars will be effective.

 

The key is that whatever strategy you're applying is controlled. You don't expect an uncontrolled forest fire to help anything, nor an uncontrolled disease to destroy another disease.

 

I think you were right on with the idea of control - the homeopathic dose is actually an artifical disease that you introduce in a controlled way. You know the properties of the remedy and how it works, and you can control the dose, potency, etc. In hypnotherapy, you control your use of suggestion and don't just mimic the person in some unconscious way .

 

Interesting that your word is "tension," as the word "strain" keeps popping into my head. The context I get is how remedies based on the law of opposites create strain when the problem is really in the jurisdiction of the law of similars. It's like you're trying to use a screwdriver to put in a nail, and it's quite inefficient, requires more effort than necessary, and you risk hurting yourself.

 

When you use opposites where the law of opposites applies, then you reduce strain. Like when you have a nutritional deficiency and you take that nutrient, that's balancing, reducing strain. Then of course as you reduce strain, the life force is stronger now so it has more energy to put into tackling the diseases that are there. So it produces symptoms. That's how symptoms can actually result from our efforts to strengthen the system.

 

So let's mix some more metaphors and see how this applies to other forms.. Say you have an opponent who's not too aggressive yet, and there's not much a of a challenge. You're just moving around and adjusting your position rather naturally (balance, law of opposites). You work with polarities like flexion and extension, or contraction and expansion, because you're in the realm that is a matter of balance.

 

The realm of similars is qualitatively different from the realm of opposites, not just quantitatively; in other words, it's not just a matter of the amount of force that determines which law to invoke. I have to think a little more about how this applies in other contexts.. But maybe the idea of suppression is helpful here. When you're dealing with a force that doesn't require balance but requires neutralizing with similars, if you don't use similars in the correct way, you only suppress.

 

A common example is of getting kids to behave, and people are generally using opposites there, correcting them and telling them what they're supposed to do differently. Then the kids' natural physical and emotional energy is suppressed and becomes tension, armoring. And you get even more rebellious behavior. But if you pace them and guide them to the correct use of their energy, there isn't that tension.

 

Maybe that's enough for one dose of pondering . Thanks for bringing this up.. I love this stuff.

 

Karen

[freeform]

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Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform