Holy $#!@! Kunlun doesn't DO anything...

[zerostao]

if there is no free will then what are we?

would that place us as automated things?

[Otis]

Quite a few Kunlun Practitioners have also positive experiences which tell me that this path does work.

 

So if there is a path which works for some people but if there is a small handful of people who fail to progress on the path, cold logic sense will tell me that the small handful of people are not ready for the path.

So, if a cancer patient doesn't benefit from chemo, it must be her own fault, because it has worked for other people?

[Otis]

double post

Edited May 5, 2011 by Otis

[joeblast]

I fail to see the correlation between "free will" and the "zero karmic effects" that some seem to associate with it.

 

Yeah, we've all got free will.

 

Yeah, our actions ripple effects outward...

 

How can one expect none of it to return in any way shape or form?

[Sloppy Zhang]

I fail to see the correlation between "free will" and the "zero karmic effects" that some seem to associate with it.

 

Yeah, we've all got free will.

 

Yeah, our actions ripple effects outward...

 

How can one expect none of it to return in any way shape or form?

 

It depends on what framework you are looking at free will and consequences.

 

If you drink a bunch, and organs start failing, well then that's a consequence.

 

Bodyoflight specifically brought up a Christian story, and I mentioned how, in my opinion, the Christian concepts of free will rub me the wrong way- because you've got an entity which is saying "you can do what you want", but then leans on you for exercising that will.

 

It's a bit different, for me anyway, in the karmic cause and affect, because in the Christian paradigm the universal force has its own agency- it isn't merely cause and affect, it is an entity that is making a conscious choice to do something to you because it personally didn't like your choice.

[Owledge]

zerostao, are we allowed to have tits in our avatars?

[joeblast]

because you've got an entity which is saying "you can do what you want", but then leans on you for exercising that will.

Who's leaning?

 

You have the free will to pick up that drink. You have the free will to become a drunkard and kill yourself with it. You also have the free will to enjoy in moderation, and have it not kill you.

 

Christianity...is tainted by dogmatic perversions. If you follow Jesus' teachings, where's the micromanaging minder constantly reminding you of your faults? Did you grow up in a religious household? Just curious

[Sloppy Zhang]

Who's leaning?

 

Well that depends, again, on your own framework. If you're just working with a universal transfer of energy, it's just the actions and reactions.

 

If you've got a deity who's the Big Man with the Big Plan, and you choose to go against the plan, well you're screwed. Even thought you're just doing what you are designed to do.

 

You have the free will to pick up that drink. You have the free will to become a drunkard and kill yourself with it. You also have the free will to enjoy in moderation, and have it not kill you.

 

I agree.

 

Christianity...is tainted by dogmatic perversions. If you follow Jesus' teachings, where's the micromanaging minder constantly reminding you of your faults? Did you grow up in a religious household? Just curious

 

Well that also depends on your flavor of Christianity

 

My family was moderately Christian, but for a couple of years I attended Catholic school, so I familiarized myself with most of the apologetics from that denomination. I also have several good friends who are Baptist, and we've had some good conversations in which they've outlined their belief, which have many nuanced differences. Even in Christianity, different denominations and different people have some very different shades to it.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Owledge]

You have the free will to pick up that drink. You have the free will to become a drunkard and kill yourself with it. You also have the free will to enjoy in moderation, and have it not kill you.

All your decisions are based on outer factors and your inner state which was at least to a great degree shaped by outer factors. If you look at that choice of picking up that drink or not, your decision will be based on all those factors. That's what I mean with free will being merely a concept. Maybe that is what people mean by free will, but then they seem to put too much mystery or sanctity in it.

 

Even in Christianity, different denominations and different people have some very different shades to it.

Naturally. Every single person has a different view on things.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Dear Body of Light,

 

You've just made another goal for your ego. 3d, 4d, 20d. No matter how high you go, if your attitude is, "oh my god I must climb higher" that's stupid. The whole issue is your goal oriented mind, and the one that says "this is good, that is bad." Chop wood carry water. Nothing as good as that.

[bodyoflight]

Dear Body of Light,

 

You've just made another goal for your ego. 3d, 4d, 20d. No matter how high you go, if your attitude is, "oh my god I must climb higher" that's stupid. The whole issue is your goal oriented mind, and the one that says "this is good, that is bad." Chop wood carry water. Nothing as good as that.

 

little do you know about the nature of reality..

 

i pity you indeed..

[Owledge]

Chop wood carry water. Nothing as good as that.

In moderation.

( I was spontaneously thinking of destroying the rainforests and taking over a country's water supply. )

[三江源]

.

Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[Lucky7Strikes]

little do you know about the nature of reality..

 

i pity you indeed..

it sure isn't modeled after a spiritual corporate ladder...

 

@Hardyg

 

:lol:

[VCraigP]

In moderation.

( I was spontaneously thinking of destroying the rainforests and taking over a country's water supply. )

Yeah, that's why the phrase isn't - Chop down and sell ALL the wood and Carry AWAY all the water :-)

[Otis]

you're an all powerful unlimited creator who can, at just a thought, send his body into orgasmic pulsations of bliss, turn your cells into light, manifest health.. whatever it is you thought the practice was "doing" to you.

 

That's the beauty of it - it doesn't DO anything.

 

IT'S ALL YOU.

Well, now that you know that you are capable of all this stuff, what are you going to do with it? Can you find an authentic practice for yourself in which you explore your own ability to explore your senses and consciousness, without the burden of someone else's method?

[Aetherous]

Any words of wisdom or courage to help me now ( I know I am talking like it's a big dramatic deal but to me it really is.. I put my whole heart into this.. drug/mental parasite) would be very much appreciated.

 

Trust your intuition and personal experience when it comes to practices, as well as your day to day activities. Do what seems right, don't do what is questionable. If you do something questionable, let it go and forgive yourself for being human. :-)

 

Spend time each day writing down your ideas about your life. Your dreams, goals, things you dislike, everything... That will help bring clarity, as well as satisfaction when you are working towards what you want in life.

 

For health, I like cold water therapy. Also, it's commonly known that we're supposed to get at least 30 minutes of cardio type exercise each day. Eat in moderation when you're hungry, and have a variety of different foods. Spend time outdoors. All of these things help us heal.

 

Express yourself in whatever way you like (for instance I play guitar...used to skateboard). Very important to let your feelings and creativity flow in whatever way you prefer.

 

P.S. also, can someone shed light on the "real" path? IS it just meditating and releasing thoughts? Thank you. I thought I was spiritually "advanced" but now I feel like an infant.

 

Releasing thoughts is really good. Having no-mind in this moment is peaceful. Another good thing is contemplating on compassion, and increasing it through your actions. I think acting from the heart is a great sign of spiritual accomplishment.

 

Anyway, you'll be fine, and you'll figure things out for yourself.

[joeblast]

All your decisions are based on outer factors and your inner state which was at least to a great degree shaped by outer factors. If you look at that choice of picking up that drink or not, your decision will be based on all those factors. That's what I mean with free will being merely a concept. Maybe that is what people mean by free will, but then they seem to put too much mystery or sanctity in it.

 

 

Naturally. Every single person has a different view on things.

Ah, but these are a multitude of probabilities - consciousness, qi, light, are all quantum mechanical phenomena, and even bringing "the exact same set of circumstances and everything" fully to bear, you will at most be "merely disposed towards a probability" and thus, free will - while influenced by the myriad probabilities, is still free, and even in the even of "completely being in the exact same situation" you may still decide any which way!

 

So regardless of the balance of equation, you are in-deeeeed still free to say "fcukit, I'm doing this instead of that."

 

[Mizu]

i am not a fan of kunlun

 

but i find a lot of sour grapes in the spiritual community..

 

it is like.. a lot of people find too many powerful spiritual paths to be too high for their own consciousness.. this is why they continuously fail to achieve the standards or goals demanded by such powerful spiritual paths..

 

case in point, Mantak Chia's semen retention practices .. the main goal of conserving one's semen is to transform the energy into higher consciousness .. but too many lack the will power and spiritual discipline to partake in such difficult practices.. then such failures will go around claiming that such paths are useless, dangerous, bla bla bla..

 

the reality is.. while knowledge of true spirituality is being spread around like wildfire in today's age of the net, too many humans lack the consciousness and willpower to stick to the path..

 

you probably didn't gain anything by kunlun because you are not worthy enough of the path.. this is probably why the guardians of that particular path refuse to give you any "accomplishments" or siddhis..

 

my advice to you would be.. stop being a spiritual person and go enjoy the everyday mundane maras of sex, alcohol, money and entertainment.. in fact stop participating in such spiritual forums like this one.. you would be much happier that way..

 

you are probably not evolved enough to be a spiritual practitioner and would probably never evolve your soul high enough to become a spiritual practitioner..

 

leave the path of spirituality to the more evolved humans in the world.. the game demands that much sacrifices must be taken in order to evolve oneself and not too many players can finish the game successfully before being dropped out..

 

Okay, I'll strive to become a spiritual "winner" like this guy. A "worthy" one.

 

 

Forget the comforts and modern luxuries of the fleeting sense pleasures of the material world (like food and a bed)!

 

That guy is in bliss! (In actuality he probably is.. he closes his eyes and sees white pulsating lights TOUCHING GOD and moans in ecstasy, but at the end of the day he's just a weird dude sitting alone in a dark cave with no friends and NO LIFE moaning to himself. Wow, what a treasure... but at least he's happy right?)

 

Sorry If I am offending anybody, and believe me, I reached ECSTATIC BLISS during kunlun so I've "made the journey up the mountain" so to speak, I just think it's so funny how it was ME the entire time.

 

I completely lost my ego because I'm infinite. I feel the purpose of life is joy and following your heart. You can become enlightented through tantric sex, through staring at a flower, through playing the guitar... it's not an end destination, it's just WAKING UP to WHO YOU REALLY ARE, and this is just my opinion... who you really are is GOD.

 

I am not a follower of Kunlun.

 

I find Max to be dubious.

 

But so far, Max has not engaged in any real devious acts like sexual slavery yet.

 

Quite a few Kunlun Practitioners have also positive experiences which tell me that this path does work.

 

So if there is a path which works for some people but if there is a small handful of people who fail to progress on the path, cold logic sense will tell me that the small handful of people are not ready for the path.

 

Furthermore, Mizu has implied that the Kunlun path is suppose to bring him worldly benefits like wealth and women..

 

no spiritual path will work for someone who is following spirituality only for the sole motivation of gaining 3rd dimensional egoistical benefits..

 

not the Kunlun path anyway.. unless the Guardians have appeared to him..

 

this is my basis for saying Mizu's realizations are ... limited because they are indeed.. limited..

 

Limited in realizing I'm unlimited and infinite?

 

I, and yes YOU, are all GOD.. completely in utter control of our own experience. Wow, sounds pretty limited huh.

 

People tend to get pissed off when their ego blinders are removed. Emotional reactions simply mean I've hit on something that's quite possibly rocking your reality, sir.

 

I would very much love an intelligent discussion, as this realization I just had that all that bliss and wild movement was "ME" the entire time is... huge.

 

:blink:

 

I feel so FREE.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Mizu

[doc benway]

Thanks guys. I'm literally shaking and crying as I read your words and realizing how stupid I was wasting all this time, energy, and MONEY on this bullshit.

 

YES - I take full responsibility for my life, Kunlun didn't "do" any of that in my life, I DID. But the point is, I was brainwashed to believe it was some mystical art that would bring me "bliss" and "Salvation" and "siddhis" and all this CRAP.

 

Looking back on what has happened, I feel so much sadness for how distant I've become from my family, my goals, my relationships with friends... ALL I wanted to do was sit in my fucking room with the door closed making weird body movements and noises, mind-creating orgasms... alone and sad and miserable.

 

Thanks for your support.

 

I just have a lot to go through right now... my whole sense of reality has just been shattered.

 

I haven't feel this ALIVE in years though, so that's good. But I can't help but feel like the rug was pulled out from underneath me.

 

I don't know where to go now... I think I will just start being who I was before I started down this toxic path.

 

Any words of wisdom or courage to help me now ( I know I am talking like it's a big dramatic deal but to me it really is.. I put my whole heart into this.. drug/mental parasite) would be very much appreciated.

 

 

P.S. also, can someone shed light on the "real" path? IS it just meditating and releasing thoughts? Thank you. I thought I was spiritually "advanced" but now I feel like an infant.

 

I subscribe to J Krishnamurti's thesis that there is no path. The truth is a pathless land, as he said.

The path without a path, in my experience, is pure and simple - awareness.

Open up to everything in you and around you. Notice everything, pay attention to everything, identify and attach with nothing.

It is all you and none of it is you.

Time to heal, time to just be. Enjoy the little things - good food, the company of friends, a good book.

Nothing more needs to be done.

Be well.

 

edit - to say the following:

It's easy to say there is no path, particularly when everyone who says that has tread some path or other to get to the point when they say - there's no path.

I'm no Kun Lun fan (naysayer from day one) and yet here is a different perspective - Kun Lun may be exactly what you needed to reach the insight you now have. Perhaps there's no need for feeling bitter or exploited.

Perhaps this is exactly what you needed and so you provided it for yourself.

Rejoice!

Edited May 6, 2011 by steve f

[Owledge]

Mizu, let me give you a sarcastic analogy to explain what I find funny about your writings:

 

I was told that the quickest way to learn how to drive a car was driving school. Many people said that, so I tried it. I followed the instructions of the teacher, I even learned all that theory stuff about traffic laws and such. But at some point I realized that I was simply being ripped off, because if I hadn't been willing to learn how to drive, the teacher would not have been able to teach me anything. He would just talk and take money. So it all comes from ME, it is ME doing everything. You don't need to waste money for driving school! I finally realized this and it pains me how millions of people are ripped off by that scam where YOU learn how to drive and someone else takes your money.

[Thunder_Gooch]

[Mizu]

Mizu, let me give you a sarcastic analogy to explain what I find funny about your writings:

 

I was told that the quickest way to learn how to drive a car was driving school. Many people said that, so I tried it. I followed the instructions of the teacher, I even learned all that theory stuff about traffic laws and such. But at some point I realized that I was simply being ripped off, because if I hadn't been willing to learn how to drive, the teacher would not have been able to teach me anything. He would just talk and take money. So it all comes from ME, it is ME doing everything. You don't need to waste money for driving school! I finally realized this and it pains me how millions of people are ripped off by that scam where YOU learn how to drive and someone else takes your money.

 

Lol, okay. I get it.

 

Thank you, Max.

 

And I mean that brother. Was a funny one man, I liked the path.

 

Edited May 12, 2011 by Mizu

[Lucky7Strikes]

The only thing I don't understand about his teachings then is why does he teach Red Phoenix? Just more unneeded nonsense?

Um, then maybe you should keep doing it until you figure it out. Seems like you've been focusing mainly on the Yi Gong posture.

[bodyoflight]

it sure isn't modeled after a spiritual corporate ladder...

 

@Hardyg

 

:lol:

 

it is modeled after a ladder but it is a ladder unlike any which you have ever seen before..