Tao Now -- Contemporary Interpretations in a Personal Context

[stan herman]

[manitou]

I've read and meditated upon the TTC for many years. My interpretation of it is to develop the qualities of the sage.

[stan herman]

I've read and meditated upon the TTC for many years. My interpretation of it is to develop the qualities of the sage.

 

I'd be interested to learn what you think those qualities are AND what they are NOT.

[manitou]

I'd be interested to learn what you think those qualities are AND what they are NOT.

 

 

Excellent question. My best conjecture would be the one who has developed the three treasures: Love, never too much, never be the first.

 

As to what qualities they wouldn't be, I would probably try to hammer them organizationally within the above three categories.

Edited May 8, 2011 by manitou

[stan herman]

Excellent question. My best conjecture would be the one who has developed the three treasures: Love, never too much, never be the first.

 

As to what qualities they wouldn't be, I would probably try to hammer them organizationally within the above three categories.

 

 

Hmm, if I understand, your response puts me in mind of the middle path of Buddhism. I don't recall the mention of "love" in the Tao, though it's been a while since I read a version all the way through. Can you point me to a verse? (Not that I think a specific mention is required for you to feel as you do)

 

One thing I note that perplexes me some is that in the discussions of Tao, as well as 'enlightenment', there seem to be a number of people who equate love, gentleness, moderation, modesty etc. with realization. As though their opposites were aberrations and evidence of defective thinking. I have a 'theory' about that, but I'd like to hear your reaction.

[manitou]

Hmm, if I understand, your response puts me in mind of the middle path of Buddhism. I don't recall the mention of "love" in the Tao, though it's been a while since I read a version all the way through. Can you point me to a verse? (Not that I think a specific mention is required for you to feel as you do)

 

One thing I note that perplexes me some is that in the discussions of Tao, as well as 'enlightenment', there seem to be a number of people who equate love, gentleness, moderation, modesty etc. with realization. As though their opposites were aberrations and evidence of defective thinking. I have a 'theory' about that, but I'd like to hear your reaction.

 

My theory us...until a person goes IN and Experiences by some sort of inner cultivation, it's all left brain.

 

I don't know if I'm going to fit into your theory or not, LOL. My path in started 30 years ago in AA with the 12 steps, which are a very blatant and rather painful beginning of the inner journey. The intent of the 12 steps is to remove what they call character defects. So what I considered character defects in my personhood are what I looked to determine, to do a personal inventory and make amends to reverse the imprint on the harms I did others, as I look back on it now from a more shamanic perspective. the process is, and is intended to be, a bit ego shattering when an amend is made.

 

But I know in my heart of hearts that there are a zillion paths to this big wonderful room we all share. Is your experience a bit different? There is no doubt that mediting on attachments, for example, would do the very same thing; plus the many ideas for inner cultivation we share. It brings us to the place where we are capable of dissolving ego and letting humility and truth bubble up through us. A channel of sorts. It seems to take a very different path in each of us, this self awareness thing.

 

I've recently been noticing your posts. What an incredible thinker you are. that's the fun of this place - being able to engage in some real mental gyrations and metaphysical whoop-di-doo from time to time. I call it stretching my metaphysical legs. Really glad you're here, Mr. Herman!

[manitou]

Yes, you can find it in chapter 67 of the Tao Te Ching. Here's Lin Yutang:

 

LXVII. THE THREE TREASURES

 

All the world says: my teaching (Tao) greatly resembles folly,

Because it is great; therefore it resembles folly.

If it did not resemble folly,

It would have long ago become petty indeed!

 

I have Three Treasures;

Guard them and keep them safe:

The first is Love. (footnote: tender love, associated with the mother).

The second is, Never too much. (footnote: frugality, be sparing)

The third is, Never be the first in the world.

Through Love, one has no fear;

Through not doing too much, one has amplitude (of reserve power)

Through not presuming to be the first in the world,

One can develop one's talent and let it mature.

 

If one forsakes love and fearlessness,

forsakes restraint and reserve power,

forsakes following behind and rushes in front,

He is dead!

 

For love is victorious in attack,

and invulnerable in defense.

Heaven arms with love

Those it would not see destroyed.

[stan herman]

My theory us...until a person goes IN and Experiences by some sort of inner cultivation, it's all left brain.

 

I don't know if I'm going to fit into your theory or not, LOL. My path in started 30 years ago in AA with the 12 steps, which are a very blatant and rather painful beginning of the inner journey. The intent of the 12 steps is to remove what they call character defects. So what I considered character defects in my personhood are what I looked to determine, to do a personal inventory and make amends to reverse the imprint on the harms I did others, as I look back on it now from a more shamanic perspective. the process is, and is intended to be, a bit ego shattering when an amend is made.

 

But I know in my heart of hearts that there are a zillion paths to this big wonderful room we all share. Is your experience a bit different? There is no doubt that mediting on attachments, for example, would do the very same thing; plus the many ideas for inner cultivation we share. It brings us to the place where we are capable of dissolving ego and letting humility and truth bubble up through us. A channel of sorts. It seems to take a very different path in each of us, this self awareness thing.

 

I've recently been noticing your posts. What an incredible thinker you are. that's the fun of this place - being able to engage in some real mental gyrations and metaphysical whoop-di-doo from time to time. I call it stretching my metaphysical legs. Really glad you're here, Mr. Herman!

 

 

Thanks for the good words manitou. Yours were the second set I received today. Very rare for me. Times I've gone weeks without any .

 

I am a great respecter of the 12 steps. They seem to me both inspired and practical--my favorite combination. My theory in brief btw, is that people are most often drawn to the numinous by personal crisis ( mine was the mid-life one). And most are attracted strongly by the yin (nurturing-supportive) aspects which seem to offer a gentler framework of 'life' than they have previously experienced. (This in no way ignores the difficult self-appraisal and ego-confrontation the 12 steps require.) My impression is that undivided devotion to the yin framework can be a snare--one that denies, even outlaws the actualities of the yang--whose challenges are half the nature of what we call mundane reality.

 

If I recall correctly, there are two Hindu yogic approaches that bear here. One is the way of love (Bhakti(?)) and another is the way of reality/truth (Raja(?)). I seem to be naturally inclined toward the latter. So indeed I agree with you, " It seems to take a very different path in each of us, this self awareness thing." Below I'm sending an other version 67.

[stan herman]

67. Many will say my thoughts are too unpredictable to capture, too innocent for this subtle world, too inconstant for these analytic times. In fact, it is their unpredictability, innocence and inconstancy that animate my thoughts. To the extent my thoughts are predictable, subtle and constant, to that extent have they become arid thoughts.

 

If my thoughts can not be well defined, what then do I mean to say? What then do I value? One thing is kindness that arises without duty and extends without intention. A second is freedom from that clinging hold to status and extravagance that holds so many captive. The third and most important thing I value is recognizing the limitless extent of Tao. And fourth I value patience.

 

 

(Manitou, I don't know where the name, "Tao Master" on my posts came from, I didn't choose it. Do you have any idea?)

Edited May 10, 2011 by stan herman

[manitou]

That was a nice interpretation - very contemporary and understandable.

 

The Tao Master thing used to drive me crazy. I don't know who makes the evaluation, but I found that mine would jump from Tao Master to Tao Addict to Tao Bum, and it finally got so disconcerting that I just went to the profile page and put 'Student of Life'. It's almost like someone with a sense of humor decides who is who - and I just didn't want to pay attention to it any longer. Besides, it's a bit of an ego-smasher when you get kicked back to Bum after saying something stupid, lol.

 

If you really mind your P's and Q's you may get to keep the handle forever,

[stan herman]

That was a nice interpretation - very contemporary and understandable.

 

The Tao Master thing used to drive me crazy. I don't know who makes the evaluation, but I found that mine would jump from Tao Master to Tao Addict to Tao Bum, and it finally got so disconcerting that I just went to the profile page and put 'Student of Life'. It's almost like someone with a sense of humor decides who is who - and I just didn't want to pay attention to it any longer. Besides, it's a bit of an ego-smasher when you get kicked back to Bum after saying something stupid, lol.

 

If you really mind your P's and Q's you may get to keep the handle forever,

 

 

Thanks, I'll see how quick I can get demoted. If anyone were to ask me, I'd call you a Dao Doll!

[manitou]

Thanks, I'll see how quick I can get demoted. If anyone were to ask me, I'd call you a Dao Doll!

[stan herman]

38. The person who is sound and confident meets others without hidden intention. The person dedicated to courtesy meets others with practiced warmth and solicitude. The person dedicated to obeying the rules meets others ethically. The one concerned to avoid punishment meets them legally. The person who is anxious for acceptance meets others according to the fashion of the day.

 

To meet others courteously

To meet others ethically

To meet others legally

To meet others according to the fashion of the day.

 

Each of these, in our time, is expertly promoted and elaborated by renouned authorities.

And so declines the quality of our lives.

 

The person of stamina is neither duped nor confused. He has his sureness. He owns his yes and his no.

[manitou]

And that hollers at me, 'Just Do Nothing' and be kind. The situations will align in their own time and in the proper way. To Do Nothing, Think Nothing - there is no hidden agenda upon meeting a person...regardless of their status in life.

 

The renound authorities you speak of reminds me of when the Dao is lost, the rules arise.

 

The person of stamina who understands wu-wei also knows that all time and space are his. And he does own his yes and no - YES!!

[stan herman]

And that hollers at me, 'Just Do Nothing' and be kind. The situations will align in their own time and in the proper way. To Do Nothing, Think Nothing - there is no hidden agenda upon meeting a person...regardless of their status in life.

 

The renound authorities you speak of reminds me of when the Dao is lost, the rules arise.

 

The person of stamina who understands wu-wei also knows that all time and space are his. And he does own his yes and no - YES!!

 

Yeah, I can see it that way too, mostly, though I don't hear "just do nothing". Perhaps it's because I have an action-bias , but I do believe there is a tendency among most Tao translators emphasizing passivity to the neglect of action. I'm by no means an authority on the Tao, but from what 'research' I've done, that seems to me a somewhat prejudiced view. Consider the Yin-Yang symbol--it portrays constant action. Such action, seems to me, to be perceptible to mankind must involve human volition.

 

Later today or tomorrow I'd like to share some of my interpretations of the Tao history, and hopefully others will join in. For now following this are a couple illustrative 'other' verses.

[stan herman]

[stan herman]

40. Each person lives, then dies, acts and then is still. Wherever action leads and whatever it achieves, stillness comes. Action and stillness are part of a whole, each requiring the other in order to know itself, as large requires small, as night requires day.

[stan herman]

[stan herman]

Forgot to mention much of the previous text was lifted selectively from Wikipedia.

 

And that I welcome comments both in agreement and disagreement. Particularly those that might help me to expand and extend my own perspectives. Thanks.

[stan herman]

[stan herman]

Verse 1 Interdependence or Independence

 

Following is a contemporary version of the first verse of the Tao. It seems to me one of the most important because it identifies a crucial issue for each individual--whether to 'join-up' to the prevailing spiritual community culture, ingesting its mores, customs and philosophy or to hold one's core self apart. To choose independence over interdependence. There are prices to pay in either case--lacking community deprives one of comfort and support, holding to community requires conformity. As an old friend of mine said, 'There's no free lunch'.

 

Personally, I have chosen independence--not in a flamboyant way, but in a fundamental one. I have been involved in a spiritual quest for more than half my life. I've studied with gurus and teachers, and explored most of the better-known (and a few lesser-known) 'philosophies' with groups of other seekers. I found all of them helpful, and eventually all of them lacking. Gradually, I came to realize there was no system that was adequate for everyone. I came to recognize too that the founders of religions--Jesus, Moses, Muhammad--all followed a curiously similar pattern. None were enlightened in a group situation. Each needed to go off by himself to realize his truth.

 

###

 

1. You can choose how you think and what you act upon. You may center your attention on what is real and valid, according to your own observations and experiences, or you can become a contributor to the latest and most fashionable tower of Babel.

 

If you choose to be a tower builder, you put on the uniform of a particular profession or trade or political movement or social or economic group. You go along and get along. You pledge allegiance to your group's slogans and interpret events according to its generalizations.

 

If you choose to be a reality hunter you place your self somewhat apart from the popular view and concentrate on discovering what is going on beneath the slogans.

 

Both courses have their advantages and disadvantages. If you choose to help build the tower, sooner or later, you will be disappointed because what is supposed to happen (according to the slogans) doesn't happen, and you are thrown on your own devices. If you choose to be a reality hunter you find the hunt is not an easy one, and it can get lonesome.

 

Some choose one course and some the other to travel their lives. A few recognize their equal validity. To respect popular generalizations but not to depend upon them is healthy. To increase your capacity to cope with their crucial exceptions is skill. When you depart from your usual pattern, whether by necessity or choice, the crucial moves of your life are made.

Edited May 25, 2011 by stan herman

[stan herman]

It strikes me how many times in conversations here and elsewhere online and off, I've read or heard people complain about other people being closed-minded, not listening to what 'others' (usually meaning the speaker) were saying. I've voiced that same complaint many times. Just a matter of minutes ago, going through the posts of a number of discussions, I saw it again--3 times in a row. It put me in mind of the following version of verse 2 of Tao.

 

2. Many people are reflexive partisans. They instantly compare, contrast, and have opinions for or against everything that comes over their horizon. They join causes, take positions and wave their arms about politics, social issues, economics, ethics and other people. Once a reflexive partisan takes a position or chooses a side, it becomes the flag of his ego, so that his own personal sense of victory or defeat, worthiness or worthlessness, becomes dependent on his cause.

 

It is better not to set your stance too soon or champion it too adamantly. As time winds forward there will be more to see than can be seen at present, but only if your eyes remain open.

 

For a wiser course, before you choose a position take a moment to recognize the foundation for other opinions along the continuum. If you are able, consider the continuum itself. Comprehending all opinions will enable you to better govern the arena of debate.

[stan herman]

[stan herman]

41. Some people perceive the way at once and join it. Some others glimpse its direction and discuss it in admiring words. But, like they would a dazzling panther, keep their distance from it. And some people ridicule the way with great enthusiasm. If the way were not embraced by some avoided by some and laughed at by some it would not be itself.

 

Those who laugh at the way can list its faults: Pointless, of no practical use, not for these times or cultures. For those who laugh, what is important is what can be counted. The core of life is of no concern. Acquisition is the focus of existence. Complexity is a fascination. And man's doings are all that can be discerned.

 

But eternity is for claim by the one who opens to know the whole. Strength and endurance are his who can feel the core of life. Skill is his who can go straight to the simple center. And laughter is his who can hear the greatest joke.

[stan herman]

Re Tao Verse 3

 

Leadership is a central topic of the Tao. Though, as I mentioned earlier, "leadership" in the time of Lao Tzu (variously estimated from the 100s to 600s BC) was a far different dynamic than it is today, there are still guidelines within its 'instructions' that are worth our consideration. They do however, require a more contemporary interpretation. The following verse 3 seems to me a relevant interpretation for our time. Compare it with a more traditional translation.

 

3. It is better not to overpraise people for capable performance, but rather to think of capable performance as nothing special. Whether as a parent or leader, encouraging others to compete for your favorable recognition is a limiting tactic. It is best for a parent or a leader to provide an environment that allows people to do what they are best able to do in the best ways they can, and to help excellence become natural.

 

A sound leader concentrates on producing what is required, simplifying issues, providing well, but not overwell, for her people, and clearing their minds of prejudices and old habits that are not useful. The best leaders and parents perform these functions in an entertaining rather than a solemn way.