Weightlifting and cultivation

[Edward M]

I'm a skinny guy with lack of confidence, and this inhibits my daily life to some degree. It is very unbalancing.

 

 

I always wanted to be bigger and stronger due to being bullied at school. But since i got involved with spiritual practices, i've thought on occasion that it is my ego wanting to compete with the past bullies etc and i should not give in. Am i being stubborn here? or should i just ahead and give it my best shot, do you think?

 

Will lifting effect any cultivation i do negatively or the opposite could happen when i get more confidence and have a more balanced life it will improve?

 

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

Cheers

 

Ed

[Encephalon]

I'm a skinny guy with lack of confidence, and this inhibits my daily life to some degree. It is very unbalancing.

 

 

I always wanted to be bigger and stronger due to being bullied at school. But since i got involved with spiritual practices, i've thought on occasion that it is my ego wanting to compete with the past bullies etc and i should not give in. Am i being stubborn here? or should i just ahead and give it my best shot, do you think?

 

Will lifting effect any cultivation i do negatively or the opposite could happen when i get more confidence and have a more balanced life it will improve?

 

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Ed

 

 

I completely relate, and your second sentence nails it. It's all about balance.

I dealt with the same issues for most of my life. When I realized I needed another means of income, I got certified as a personal trainer and took a job in a gym. Only later did I realize that I was really in the beginning of my midlife crisis and just wanted a free gym membership and the opportunity to finally get the body I wanted. There is nothing more unbalancing, or destabilizing, as the feeling that your body has betrayed you, or can't support the aspirations of your soul.

 

I would heartily encourage you to start working out. Since you're not going to get any bigger well after you get a lot stronger, you might as well learn everything you can about strength training first. "Power to the People" by Pavel Tsatsouline is your best bet, one of Men's Fitness' Mag's top ten fitness books of all time. Getting on a first name basis with deadlifts will do more for you than any other single lift.

 

As you get stronger, your mind/muscle connection will grow. This will afford great advantages as you start to acquire your ability to feel your chi. The only stipulation is that you MUST maintain equilibrium between strength and flexibility.

Strength training will only serve your mental and spiritual goals if you maintain the ability to RELAX.

 

Another thing strength training does, well before you get that "magic look" is to lower your center of gravity. Most of us skinny folks, and certainly the bulk of westerners, live in our heads, because we're so disembodied. Once you start getting stronger, your center of gravity will descend into your belly and glutes. It's difficult to quantify but there is an incontrovertible difference between a man who lives in his head and a man who lives from his center. They move differently, even stand differently, and it will change your world and your entire life.

 

"Relax Into Stretch" is another great resource by Pavel, and will teach you more about flexibility than most personal trainers ever know. A good yoga class on non-training days helps too. If you stick with this for 18 months you'll be a completely different person, and if you're still in the mood for body of your dreams, buy a copy of either "From Scrawny to Brawny" or "The New Rules of Lifting" and master the art of compound lifts.

 

There was once a great deal of advice here in this forum against weight-training, for all kinds of reasons. I usually disagreed with most of it because you won't be working out hard-core for the rest of your life to incur all the alarming side effects.

 

If your doing any nei kung or zhan zhuang, be sure to get a good four hours between routines.

 

Remember, you have to have a healthy ego before you can learn to put it in its place. If you feel as disembodied as I once felt, you owe it to yourself to summon the power of your ego to get through this phase. Muscles are the badges of the soul, and no one can take that away from you. But don't be surprised if you center of gravity changes you well before you notice bulking muscles!

 

All the best.

[onlyindreams]

I'm a skinny guy with lack of confidence, and this inhibits my daily life to some degree. It is very unbalancing.

 

 

I always wanted to be bigger and stronger due to being bullied at school. But since i got involved with spiritual practices, i've thought on occasion that it is my ego wanting to compete with the past bullies etc and i should not give in. Am i being stubborn here? or should i just ahead and give it my best shot, do you think?

 

Will lifting effect any cultivation i do negatively or the opposite could happen when i get more confidence and have a more balanced life it will improve?

 

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

Cheers

 

Ed

 

Follow through on your inner, true, heart desire to build your body up (muscles, bones, nerves, and glands) and to better yourself. To set challenging goals and expectations for yourself and fulfill them and in doing so, be graced with a sense of satisfaction and joy that only comes with the accomplishment of a task, done to the best of your capacity.

 

 

 

A man has an inborn desire to better himself, to prove one's worth by reaching objectives and overcoming obstacles.

 

Don't sacrifice this opportunity to grow because of an abstract fear or a weak spirit. Find it within yourself to fulfill this inner desire.

 

Growth comes through adversity, difficulties, and suffering.

 

A half hearted effort nets NOTHING in satisfaction. Remember that when you are training, when that thought of 'it's too hard' 'i'm tired' arises in your mind.

 

 

 

One day, several months or several years down the line, you will look back and connect all the dots and realize that following through on your desire to strengthen your body, your mind, and your spirit by pitting it against iron and gravity will have all been worth it.

 

A strong body thinks strong thoughts. A man who is strong is far more effective and potent than that same man if he were a weakling - whether in aspiring to spiritual ideals, loving a woman with all that you've got, to achieving something truly remarkable and contributing something worthy to the world, to raising and protecting your family and loved ones, to taking care of business and earning your bread by the sweat of your brow.

 

You may have to reorganize your life and eliminate unnecessary obligations and entities from your life. So be it. Focus only on the desired outcome and you WILL achieve it.

 

 

 

I'll leave you with this.

 

 

Why do I lift?

 

To feel some thing, to feel intensely alive. To strain against something that will not back down to me. To know I gave it my all. To become that which I am working with (steel and iron).

 

 

Iron is full of impurities that weaken it;

through forging, it becomes steel and is transformed into a razor-sharp sword.

Human beings develop in the same fashion.

 

- O Sensei Morihei Ueshiba

[onlyindreams]

 

Another thing strength training does, well before you get that "magic look" is to lower your center of gravity. Most of us skinny folks, and certainly the bulk of westerners, live in our heads, because we're so disembodied. Once you start getting stronger, your center of gravity will descend into your belly and glutes. It's difficult to quantify but there is an incontrovertible difference between a man who lives in his head and a man who lives from his center. They move differently, even stand differently, and it will change your world and your entire life.

 

Remember, you have to have a healthy ego before you can learn to put it in its place. If you feel as disembodied as I once felt, you owe it to yourself to summon the power of your ego to get through this phase. Muscles are the badges of the soul, and no one can take that away from you. But don't be surprised if you center of gravity changes you well before you notice bulking muscles!

 

All the best.

 

Quoted for re-emphasis.

 

Beautiful post. I will be saving excerpts of it for future reading and inspiration.

[Encephalon]

Quoted for re-emphasis.

 

Beautiful post. I will be saving excerpts of it for future reading and inspiration.

 

Mucho gassho!

[Edward M]

Blasto and Onlyindreams, thanks so much for your from the heart advice!

 

That is it then, i'll start lifting seriously.

 

I had in mind to do the strong lifts 5x5 program for strength and then perhaps the scrawny to brawny program, i have the book already, thanks!

 

I have been told before that you have to have a healthy ego before you can lose it.... makes a lot of sense.

 

Cheers guys!!!!

 

Ed

[Simple_Jack]

Dude nothing wrong with lifting weights to become stronger or bigger.

 

Check out this thread, to look for some advice on eating to gain weight and lifting protocols:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/15957-gains-in-strength-and-size/page__p__217374__fromsearch__1entry217374

 

I recommend starting with the "Westside For Skinny Basterds" program. You can cycle that shit for months, or as long as you want.

 

Good Luck, brah

 

Edit: Sorry didn't see that you already chose the 5X5 program. It's definitely a good start for beginners. Though check out that thread for tips on eating to gain weight.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Simple_Jack

[Edward M]

Thanks SimpleJack, will check out the thread.... may well do the west side program in the future!!!

 

Ed

[onlyindreams]

Edward,

 

It doesn't matter what program you do. What exercises you pick [squats, deadlifts, shoulder press, pullups]. What routine you settle on. [5x5, 5/3/1, 12/9/6/3, 10x10, etc.]

 

As long as you keep your routine consistent and you increase the weight that you lift over time. 2.5 pounds x 3 workouts a week x 10 weeks = a 75lb increase in weight that you are able to lift and an increase in strength and body mass and physique that reflects that progress.

 

 

Keep your workouts short, to the point, and hard / uncomfortable.

But remember that it's important that you balance all this working out with 'working in' - relaxing, resting, sleeping, meditating/breathwork.

1/4 hard effort, 1/4 diet, 1/4 rest and sleep, 1/4 consistency, dedication and daily affirmation

 

Don't waste a single minute or a single dollar on buying supplements/powders/pills. 95% of them are bunk and you are not close to the level where stringent supplementation may benefit your training.

Edited May 8, 2011 by onlyindreams

[Simple_Jack]

Edward,

 

It doesn't matter what program you do. What exercises you pick [squats, deadlifts, shoulder press, pullups]. What routine you settle on. [5x5, 5/3/1, 12/9/6/3, 10x10, etc.]

 

As long as you keep your routine consistent and you increase the weight that you lift over time. 2.5 pounds x 3 workouts a week x 10 weeks = a 75lb increase in weight that you are able to lift and an increase in strength and body mass and physique that reflects that progress.

 

 

Keep your workouts short, to the point, and hard / uncomfortable.

But remember that it's important that you balance all this working out with 'working in' - relaxing, resting, sleeping, meditating/breathwork.

1/4 hard effort, 1/4 diet, 1/4 rest and sleep, 1/4 consistent, dedicated effort

 

I agree wholeheartedly

 

Though The WS4SB program does allow for more arm work, due to it having an upper/lower body split.

[Edward M]

Onlyindreams, thanks for the advice.. i agree no good in replacing one out of balance situation with another.... keep the scales steady!

 

 

5x5 requires that 2.5kg be put on the bar each time you repeat the same workout.. so that is the progressive resistance part sorted..

 

 

Many thanks!!!

 

Ed

[Edward M]

Simple jack, thanks mate! i'll look into the westside one.... 5x5 has no direct arm work in the program or calves for that matter either.

 

Cheers

ed

[Simple_Jack]

Simple jack, thanks mate! i'll look into the westside one.... 5x5 has no direct arm work in the program or calves for that matter either.

 

Cheers

ed

 

No wait, if you want to do that program, then do it! You'll still get bigger!

 

Though IF you want something like an upper/lower split to get more volume done, then go for it!

 

Also the link is: http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles.html

Edited May 7, 2011 by Simple_Jack

[Edward M]

Simple Jack, hey no worries, i have not made a commitment to a particular program yet. One question, what is the repetition day all about on westside? i cannot lift the weights he has listed so what should i do? any idea's?

 

Cheers

 

Ed

[Edward M]

wait a sec... on repetition day, do you just pick one weight for the bench press out of the listed weights? if so, no problem, first one is only 42 kg's can lift that no problem!

if not i guess just do pushups for max 3 sets

Ed

[onlyindreams]

wait a sec... on repetition day, do you just pick one weight for the bench press out of the listed weights? if so, no problem, first one is only 42 kg's can lift that no problem!

if not i guess just do pushups for max 3 sets

Ed

 

Regulate the weights you will train with by yourself. Don't rely on another man's numbers and abstract thoughts as much. [Though I will say this again to pound it into your head: short, austere, hard workouts are the way to go.]

 

Just keep consistently adding weight to the bar on any exercise you devote yourself to doing.

 

Answer this question [you don't have to share the answer with us]:

 

Why are you lifting?

 

What is your ultimate goal? your desired outcome?

 

Be as brutally honest with yourself here.

 

Once you have grasped an answer that's yours and yours alone, you will then have a goal to work towards.

 

Design everything you do when you train (as well as during your daily life) to bring you closer to that goal. If you can retain that singular focus of your desired outcome, you will achieve it - no matter what it is.

Edited May 8, 2011 by onlyindreams

[Mizu]

I find weightlifting opens me up. I get a lot of buzzing tinglies of bliss (Wtflol) after an intense lifting sesh.

 

Squats ftw.

 

Btw your thoughts produce reality. FEEL and THINK "scrawny weakling" and manifest it accordingly. You've been warned.

 

"Hardgainer" my ass, it's all your thoughts/beliefs about your body that helps shape it man!

 

FEEL strong BE strong.

 

Peace.

 

~Mizu

[mantis]

There is an incredible feeling of accomplishment after finishing some heavy ass squats, you really must try it. If you want some pre-gym motivation, check out this guy:

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by mantis

[onlyindreams]

There is an incredible feeling of accomplishment after finishing some heavy ass squats, you really must try it. If you want some pre-gym motivation, check out this guy:

 

 

 

Awesome. My style of training.

 

 

 

Here's a group of men whose precepts I resonate with:

 

http://www.gymjones.com/knowledge.php

Edited May 9, 2011 by onlyindreams

[Upfromtheashes]

I completely relate, and your second sentence nails it. It's all about balance.

I dealt with the same issues for most of my life. When I realized I needed another means of income, I got certified as a personal trainer and took a job in a gym. Only later did I realize that I was really in the beginning of my midlife crisis and just wanted a free gym membership and the opportunity to finally get the body I wanted. There is nothing more unbalancing, or destabilizing, as the feeling that your body has betrayed you, or can't support the aspirations of your soul.

 

I would heartily encourage you to start working out. Since you're not going to get any bigger well after you get a lot stronger, you might as well learn everything you can about strength training first. "Power to the People" by Pavel Tsatsouline is your best bet, one of Men's Fitness' Mag's top ten fitness books of all time. Getting on a first name basis with deadlifts will do more for you than any other single lift.

 

As you get stronger, your mind/muscle connection will grow. This will afford great advantages as you start to acquire your ability to feel your chi. The only stipulation is that you MUST maintain equilibrium between strength and flexibility.

Strength training will only serve your mental and spiritual goals if you maintain the ability to RELAX.

 

Another thing strength training does, well before you get that "magic look" is to lower your center of gravity. Most of us skinny folks, and certainly the bulk of westerners, live in our heads, because we're so disembodied. Once you start getting stronger, your center of gravity will descend into your belly and glutes. It's difficult to quantify but there is an incontrovertible difference between a man who lives in his head and a man who lives from his center. They move differently, even stand differently, and it will change your world and your entire life.

 

"Relax Into Stretch" is another great resource by Pavel, and will teach you more about flexibility than most personal trainers ever know. A good yoga class on non-training days helps too. If you stick with this for 18 months you'll be a completely different person, and if you're still in the mood for body of your dreams, buy a copy of either "From Scrawny to Brawny" or "The New Rules of Lifting" and master the art of compound lifts.

 

There was once a great deal of advice here in this forum against weight-training, for all kinds of reasons. I usually disagreed with most of it because you won't be working out hard-core for the rest of your life to incur all the alarming side effects.

 

If your doing any nei kung or zhan zhuang, be sure to get a good four hours between routines.

 

Remember, you have to have a healthy ego before you can learn to put it in its place. If you feel as disembodied as I once felt, you owe it to yourself to summon the power of your ego to get through this phase. Muscles are the badges of the soul, and no one can take that away from you. But don't be surprised if you center of gravity changes you well before you notice bulking muscles!

 

All the best.

 

Hey this is a great post - I saved it as well for inspiration and information - Thank You!

I am curious what are the long term side effects of hard lifting? - Are you now toning down the intensity of your workouts or have you found that you can maintain your strength on only a few workout a month now that you have built your base?

 

I lifted hard in the past and got very strong and explosive - and also imbalanced - I have another plan now - I have been doing rooting exercises where I hold different postures with my legs spread - I do bodyweight exercises and stretching - I am doing sprints up hills and playing basketball - I am trying to do these movements in a relaxed manner and not in a jerky all out manner to create more energetic balance - If I do do squats again I will try to do them in a relaxed happier way - I used to do every set all out like my life depended on it and this seems very draining to the adrenals and body vitality in general - this is my problem with lifting - it does not seem to be extremely invigorating after doing it at least in the manner people traditionally lift - although my training style is generally all out - fiery and emotional -

Edited May 9, 2011 by Upfromtheashes

[Encephalon]

Hey this is a great post - I saved it as well for inspiration and information - Thank You!

I am curious what are the long term side effects of hard lifting? - Are you now toning down the intensity of your workouts or have you found that you can maintain your strength on only a few workout a month now that you have built your base?

 

Thanks for the compliment. I can't honestly remember all the criticisms that were leveled at weightlifting. I think the conversation was the liveliest in here about two years ago, an era where TTB seemed to be more body-based and visceral than the current philosophical orientation. That's my imperfect grasp of TTB history.

 

Some of the criticisms are definitely legit -

Tightness. You hardly ever see weightlifters committing equal time between lifting and stretching. Tightness reduces your range of motion, torques your joints, creates disproportionate strength patterns in muscle groups that result in 'relative weakness,' and it basically just screws with your biomechanics.

 

There are only six basic moves that the human body is designed to perform*

bend

squat

push

pull

lunge

twist

*The New Rules of Lifting

 

Some combinations that you see people doing are perfect recipes for destroying your fluidity of motion all for the sake of an overly developed posterior deltoid!

 

 

From a martial art standpoint, the added strength and bulk is only worth it if you can maintain your speed and power. Geez, there are so many menacing looking young men out there who would probably lose a scuffle because they've traded their speed for a threatening physical appearance.

 

And of course, if you lift heavy for too long it just accelerates osteoarthritis, or what we used to call "wear and tear disease." I have the brand new titanium shoulder joint to prove it! I was deadlifting 315lb when I weighed 135, but there's no sensible reason for me to deadlift more than 180 anymore. I'm also over 50 now.

 

There were all kinds of esoteric proscriptions against weight-training that I can't recall, but by all means, if you're in your 20s or 30s, lift hard and put on some bulk while you can still heal quickly. As soon as you get your size and strength base you get your reward - you'll be able to cut back to one light workout day every 72 hours and maintain most of the benefits. By then you might prefer bodyweight routines, yoga, or a martial art. Of course I can't recommend nei kung enough.

 

Oh, and the quote about "muscles being the badges of the soul"... wish I could claim ownership, but I read it in Men's Fitness years ago.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Blasto

[markern]

. As soon as you get your size and strength base you get your reward - you'll be able to cut back to one light workout day every 72 hours and maintain most of the benefits. By then you might prefer bodyweight routines, yoga, or a martial art. Of course I can't recommend nei kung enough.

 

 

 

I have no clue about the relationship between what is needed to build muscle and maintain it. I used to thing you had to workout as much to keep it as you did to get it but apparently not. Right now I lift twice a week. I life three sets of as much as I can lift ten repetitions of. I do for biceps, tricpes, shoulders, chest muscles. I also do some for my upper back and some for my lower back and do one round of leg pushing lifts. THis takes me about 20-25 min in total. I have been doing this since August last year and I am now quite close to where I want to be. If I keep doing the same maybe I get there in one year but I think doing it three times a week will do it in half a year. Of course changing the routine to something more rational (this was just what a personal trainer set me to do years ago) might make me get there faster. So my question is when after say half a year I get where I want to be, either with a more rational routine or three times a week what will I need to maintain it? Do I have to keep at it for a good while to solidify it until I can scale back?

 

I plan on doing martial arts (thai boxing, Brazlian jujitsu or Krav MAga I will probably change back and forth over the years) once a week soon. If that plus some yoga could replace the weights I would be thrilled. THe yoga I would like to do would be a mix of fairly vigorous and dynamic, almost like ashtanga but not quite as hard, and dao yin like stretching. I got quite muscular just by doing yoga and no weights before. So could say one thai boxing day, and two yoga sessions maintain the size I am trying to build?

 

And what about testosterone? Weight lifting produces it but if you use other methods to maintain size will testosterone levels be maintained? I can see the martial arts maintaining testosterone but not so sure about the yoga.It seems to pull in the opposite direction.

 

What about one day martial art one day weights 30 min and one day yoga?

 

Do the same principles apply to stretching? So that the gains in flexibility from an intesive perido of stretching can be maintained by much less stretching later on?

[Audiohealing]

I weightlifted for 10 years before starting cultivation and gained (and maintained) around 25lbs of lean mass from all those years. Perfected my form on all lifts... the whole shabang... even coached for a while. However, it was one or the other for me. I gave up weightlifting for cultivation. All those years of weight training made my body incredibly tense and hard which isn't a very good thing in terms of energy flow. I don't think the two mix together unless you're REALLY skinny and want to get to a normal weight.

 

That said there's a difference between getting really f"ing huge and just getting bigger and stronger....

Edited May 10, 2011 by Audiohealing

[Non]

I've been doing Strongfortism with 8lb weights. Might be a bit much for starters though.

[Encephalon]

I have no clue about the relationship between what is needed to build muscle and maintain it. I used to thing you had to workout as much to keep it as you did to get it but apparently not. Right now I lift twice a week. I life three sets of as much as I can lift ten repetitions of. I do for biceps, tricpes, shoulders, chest muscles. I also do some for my upper back and some for my lower back and do one round of leg pushing lifts. THis takes me about 20-25 min in total. I have been doing this since August last year and I am now quite close to where I want to be. If I keep doing the same maybe I get there in one year but I think doing it three times a week will do it in half a year. Of course changing the routine to something more rational (this was just what a personal trainer set me to do years ago) might make me get there faster. So my question is when after say half a year I get where I want to be, either with a more rational routine or three times a week what will I need to maintain it? Do I have to keep at it for a good while to solidify it until I can scale back?

 

I plan on doing martial arts (thai boxing, Brazlian jujitsu or Krav MAga I will probably change back and forth over the years) once a week soon. If that plus some yoga could replace the weights I would be thrilled. THe yoga I would like to do would be a mix of fairly vigorous and dynamic, almost like ashtanga but not quite as hard, and dao yin like stretching. I got quite muscular just by doing yoga and no weights before. So could say one thai boxing day, and two yoga sessions maintain the size I am trying to build?

 

And what about testosterone? Weight lifting produces it but if you use other methods to maintain size will testosterone levels be maintained? I can see the martial arts maintaining testosterone but not so sure about the yoga.It seems to pull in the opposite direction.

 

What about one day martial art one day weights 30 min and one day yoga?

 

Do the same principles apply to stretching? So that the gains in flexibility from an intesive perido of stretching can be maintained by much less stretching later on?

 

You would most likely have to pay someone to tease this all out for you. the biggest mistake we often make is trying to train for more than one fitness goal at a time. There are a number of ways you can manipulate variables - rep range, load, cadence, rest time - to address more than one goal at a time, such as squeezing cardio out of your strength or building routine. It's hard not to want every fitness goal NOW, but fitness is best conceived as a lifetime event. If you need to bulk up, take three years to eat like a pig and do no more cardio than what you get from pumping iron. Then you might move in to your Krav Maga era where you'll want to train for speed, power and agility, like a boxer. Here in La-La Land we pig out and bulk up during the "winter" and start jacking up the cardio and lo-carb routine in time for beach season. We're just a bunch of whores in Southern California. Ask anyone.

 

Tai Po

Edited May 10, 2011 by Blasto