The So-called "Tree of Life" has been debunked

[Marblehead]

The only reason I continued posting is that his ideology needs to be exposed for what it is. This is not an isolated incident and many like him that share the same ideology, will continue forcing their propaganda in many venues.

 

And regretfully I will be called to respond to such nonsense posts.

 

I cannot just stand by and allow the lies be told to the people I am here to support.

[Machin Shin]

Oh No!!! Now aliens from outer space placed everything on earth in exactly the form it is presently in.

 

Now I understand why there have been so many programs on TV recently about flying saucers and aliens.

 

Yo Marbles! It's too bad that you don't have a giant flying monkey god that peeks into your mind every so often! The earliest parts of the vedas are from a different world.

 

As for flying saucers the ones that a co-worker and I saw last year while at work were doing a flyby of the hospital and it's MRI. I guess that the x-ray emissions got someone excited.

 

If I'm too far out on a branch please feel free to cut it off.

 

Life and Death happen.

 

A friend of mine that is a cytogeneticist thinks that this is funny.

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by Machin Shin

[ShaktiMama]

Yo Marbles! It's too bad that you don't have a giant flying monkey god that peeks into your mind every so often! The earliest parts of the vedas are from a different world.

 

As for flying saucers the ones that a co-worker and I saw last year while at work were doing a flyby of the hospital and it's MRI. I guess that the x-ray emissions got someone excited.

 

If I'm too far out on a branch please feel free to cut it off.

 

Life and Death happen.

 

A friend of mine that is a cytogeneticist thinks that this is funny.

 

 

 

bonus points for creative use of blue chux, pipette wrapping, non latex gloves, and bio hazard waste bags.

 

bravo...

[Nanashi]

It is not my place to judge anyone, or force anyone to believe something that they wouldn't want to, but I must confess I4L has left us no other recourse but to belittle him. He is so incorrigible, we cannot allow such ignorance to pass.

 

Such men suffer under the conditions of all defeated or conquered peoples, for his ilk lost the cultural identity during the Age of Enlightenment. Those who cannot accept reality may dive into distractions such as booze or defiance. This is why Hawaiians or Native Americans have high alcoholism rates, and why Christian fundies would rather die in a blaze of glory in Waco.

 

Since the international rhetoric is not "Love God (the Christ) or Die", people like I4L find it their duty to fight their "just cause", even though the war is over. God is on the decline-- maybe he will morph again in our imaginations, or finally die for good, but the era of believing in monolithic superstition is over. To take up the banner of ID, is to truly deny reality. Instead of having the common courtesy-- or even basic decency-- to not constantly bombard us with his cognitive dissonance and stay among his own kind (he even admits all his posts were meant to flame atheists from other forums), he chooses to bring unwelcome views here.

 

It is fine if he wants to ignore the natural world (not really, since it effects humanity in the long run), and create his own fantasies or consume those fed to him by others, but when he forces (day after day, post after post) these views, spamming the same line over and over (didn't Drew Hempel get banned for something similar?)-- well, I think many here have already voiced their concern over this issue.

[Nanashi]

I mean, Jesus Christ-- I'd rather read Vaj's repetitive comments instead. At least he was creative with his fantasies.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Nanashi

[ralis]

I mean, Jesus Christ-- I'd rather read Vaj's repetitive comments instead. At least he was creative with his fantasies.

 

I believe Vajraji's suspension is almost up. He may be back soon.

[Nanashi]

I believe Vajraji's suspension is almost up. He may be back soon.

 

Haha-- ID or DO, surrender your minds, heathens.

 

Is reality so terrifying we must create alternatives that delve into the realm of ridiculous? What is so hard to get over that the universe may be amoral and completely natural.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Nanashi

[Marblehead]

Yo Marbles! It's too bad that you don't have a giant flying monkey god that peeks into your mind every so often! The earliest parts of the vedas are from a different world.

 

As for flying saucers the ones that a co-worker and I saw last year while at work were doing a flyby of the hospital and it's MRI. I guess that the x-ray emissions got someone excited.

 

If I'm too far out on a branch please feel free to cut it off.

 

A friend of mine that is a cytogeneticist thinks that this is funny.

 

Yeah, that one flying monkey I was going to adopt somehow got castrated and he was good for nothing after that. In fact, he couldn't even fly any more.

 

I must admit to the possibility of life on other worlds and that theses life forms could be much more advanced than we are. I am surprised that they have not yet attempted to exploit the resources of earth yet though. And I am also surprised that they have not attempted to make contact. But then, they may be cloning themselves to appear to be humans and this is where all our politicians and religious leaders are coming from.

 

That was a cute video. Yes, I have known days like that.

 

I spent 20 years of my life defending the American way of life but I look around at what is happening and think, "I was defending this?" It doesn't look like I thought it did.

[Marblehead]

I mean, Jesus Christ-- I'd rather read Vaj's repetitive comments instead. At least he was creative with his fantasies.

 

Hehehe. I got a good laugh out of that. Thanks. And thank you too Vaj.

[Marblehead]

 

Is reality so terrifying we must create alternatives that delve into the realm of ridiculous? What is so hard to get over that the universe may be amoral and completely natural.

 

Extremely important consideration.

 

Why is there a need by so many to try to add to what already is? Things ain't going the way you want them too? Well, maybe your expectations are corrupt?

[Immortal4life]

I still am finding all the theories, conspiracies, and ideas various people have about my "motivations", and "beliefs", amusing. Did the Discovery Institute send you here? Are you Christian or religious? What religion do you follow? Tell me now!! What Denomination are you?!?! Did Gauss ask you to come here to defend the Great Fa? lol

 

Your perceptions on things say much more about yourself than me. These are all just prejudices and illusions, like the false idea that is often perpetuated that anyone who questions evolution must have fundamentalist religous motivations.

 

Now, as far as "polarization" goes, I see this as existing much more in the mind's of the people talking about it than in reality. I also see it as an excuse used by people who personally don't like some of my opinions. It's a cheap tactic. Often times, you have to meet challenges in all aspects of Life. While interacting with others, there is nothing wrong with disagreement, it can in fact make you stronger and know what to expect from people who will want to silence you. Reading people is something many here could do some work on. In addition, this thread has been extremely popular, whether you like it, or you don't like it. It clearly has attractive power.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Nanashi]

Yeah, it is popular, but the popular sentiments are all complaints. This isn't discourse, you are not trying to open conversation on this topic, you are spamming the same thing all the time. It is hard to ignore, but it is not fun nor engaging. Honestly, the spam bots that post movie titles in the lobby are more entertaining.

[Nanashi]

If you were "debunking" eugenics or phrenology, I would not have a problem. If you were promoting eugenics or phrenology, I would be offended. In the same vein, ID as a topic is totally offensive to me as a human being, for it denies all creative forces inherent in matter and mind; it denies reality and robs mindless fools of their capacity for growth. Indeed, this topic is against the very nature of our board's usual discussions and TTB's MO-- I would recommend it being removed to the pit, if not for how harmful of an idea ID really is. This thread should be locked or deleted.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Nanashi

[gendao]

If you were "debunking" eugenics or phrenology, I would not have a problem. If you were promoting eugenics or phrenology, I would be offended.

Well, you do realize that a lot of the late 19th century eugenics movement was built off of Darwinism?

Sir Francis Galton systematized these ideas and practices according to new knowledge about the evolution of man and animals provided by the theory of his half-cousin Charles Darwin during the 1860s and 1870s. After reading Darwin's Origin of Species, Galton built upon Darwin's ideas whereby the mechanisms of natural selection were potentially thwarted by human civilization. He reasoned that, since many human societies sought to protect the underprivileged and weak, those societies were at odds with the natural selection responsible for extinction of the weakest; and only by changing these social policies could society be saved from a "reversion towards mediocrity,"

It's no small coincidence that "modern eugenics" directly followed the publicization of Darwin's theories...

[Nanashi]

Vortex: Wow. Way to miss the point, there. Of course, if it involves advancing your christian agenda, reality doesn't matter eh?

 

Yes, try to keep up with us. Everyone knows eugenics is now considered a joke. As much as ID is.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Nanashi

[Nanashi]

For vortex to make such a comment... I mean, wow. Really? Are we all reading this?

 

So, if Southern Christians endorsed slavery in 1860, then ALL CHRISTIANS CURRENTLY ENDORSE SLAVERY. I'm going by your logic, naturally.

[ralis]

I still am finding all the theories, conspiracies, and ideas various people have about my "motivations", and "beliefs", amusing. Did the Discovery Institute send you here? Are you Christian or religious? What religion do you follow? Tell me now!! What Denomination are you?!?! Did Gauss ask you to come here to defend the Great Fa? lol

 

Your perceptions on things say much more about yourself than me. These are all just prejudices and illusions, like the false idea that is often perpetuated that anyone who questions evolution must have fundamentalist religous motivations.

 

Now, as far as "polarization" goes, I see this as existing much more in the mind's of the people talking about it than in reality. I also see it as an excuse used by people who personally don't like some of my opinions. It's a cheap tactic. Often times, you have to meet challenges in all aspects of Life. While interacting with others, there is nothing wrong with disagreement, it can in fact make you stronger and know what to expect from people who will want to silence you. Reading people is something many here could do some work on. In addition, this thread has been extremely popular, whether you like it, or you don't like it. It clearly has attractive power.

 

 

The last two videos you posted of Berlinski and Wells, are two highly paid shills that represent the Discovery Institute. The Discovery Institute is a known ID propagandist organization. Is this merely a coincidence? Or part of your agenda? Which is it?

 

For your enlightenment, one who presents a one sided point of view, such as the narrative you have presented here, is being polarized. Further, what I don't care for is the incessant repetition of one or two points on your part. That is an age old propaganda technique.

[Nanashi]

All I4L can do is post links from paid scientists of Christian organizations. At least when Drew spammed, Spring Forest actually may have benefits. ID says all power be to rich white guys (God obviously favored them to give such good conditions), and everyone and everything else should lay waste to his disposal. Frightening barbarism.

 

I imagine every time we post a well-written rebuttal, these guys just hear "Battle Hymn of the Republic" in their heads.

 

We have vortex and I4L versus everyone else either mocking them or complaining about this.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Nanashi

[Nanashi]

I like the subtle trickery in rephrasing "God did it" to "Intelligent Design"-- attempting to imply, by slipping in the word "intelligent" that it suddenly becomes a topic of intellectual discussion. Quite laugh-worthy.

[Immortal4life]

The last two videos you posted of Berlinski and Wells, are two highly paid shills that represent the Discovery Institute. The Discovery Institute is a known ID propagandist organization. Is this merely a coincidence? Or part of your agenda? Which is it?

 

The reasons are very simple. Someone else, other than me, brought up the subject of the Discovery Institute and Intelligent Design. The other reason is because these particular videos were directly addressing issues you had brought up. Being part of an organization you don't like, doesn't make their argument wrong.

 

 

For your enlightenment, one who presents a one sided point of view, such as the narrative you have presented here, is being polarized. Further, what I don't care for is the incessant repetition of one or two points on your part. That is an age old propaganda technique.

 

In any open discussion, you are going to have differing opinions, and in some cases contradicting opinions among different people. In the latter case, the discussion will, as a matter of natural course, become a debate. In a debate, it is not up to one person to make cases for both sides.

 

I have many topics and ideas to discuss, not just one or two.

[ralis]

The reasons are very simple. Someone else, other than me, brought up the subject of the Discovery Institute and Intelligent Design. The other reason is because these particular videos were directly addressing issues you had brought up. Being part of an organization you don't like, doesn't make their argument wrong.

 

 

 

I have many topics and ideas to discuss, not just one or two.

 

You posted the videos, I did not! What other great revelations are you about to inundate us with?

[Marblehead]

You posted the videos, I did not! What other great revelations are you about to inundate us with?

 

I hope it has something to do with Taoism.

[Machin Shin]

Yeah, that one flying monkey I was going to adopt somehow got castrated and he was good for nothing after that. In fact, he couldn't even fly any more.

 

I must admit to the possibility of life on other worlds and that theses life forms could be much more advanced than we are. I am surprised that they have not yet attempted to exploit the resources of earth yet though.

 

The spirit does not waste energy. It saddens me that your monkey suffered so. Perhaps the Good Witch of the North can heal him...or maybe one of Padmasambhava's disciples will help him reincarnate if he's between lives.

 

The Hanuman statue at the ashram is in a flying posture, and as I understand things it's in His epic when He's flying to get medicine for a pair of twins.

 

Meanwhile on topic:

 

What I understand is that there are people in university labs doing exciting research into the completely complex area of genetics. They are just doing it to get a job. They probably need some love and guidance. And a monkey bite on the arse.

[Creation]

I just looked at this thread for the first time. It was even worse than I expected.

 

A brief skimming suggest to me that this thread is one giant troll-feeding zoo. I4L is trolling (and probably doesn't even realize it) and people are feeding him with their anger, ridicule, insults, etc. It "feels" very similar to Vajrahridaya troll feeding threads, even though the issues are different. Does this not suggest that this problem is not the intellectual issues (whether it is Buddha vs. Tao or I.D. vs. Darwinism), but the tendency toward emotional reactivity?

 

I would like to thank Apech for bringing his sensibility to this thread.

 

I would also like to thank Blasto for posting the Discovery Institute's charter. Scary stuff. My impression of it is that it is creating a false dichotomy, where there are Theists and Atheists/Materialists, whose views about things are very well defined and opposing, and there is no middle ground on any of the issues. Blasto pointed this behavior out in I4L, a very astute observation I must say, and I agree completely that it is a major impediment to moving forward. But let's remember that this behavior happens on both sides. Look at Richard Dawkins going around calling religion a mental disorder. Talk about "no middle ground"!

 

Which brings me to:

I'm starting to understand why people like Dawkins and Hitchens take such an aggressive approach, I appreciate then more now I see what they are up against. There is an element of truth in the premise that things are over materialistic, but a regression back to old dogmatic religious views is obviously not the solution so I doubt these ID propagandists will ever get anywhere.

Jetsun,

 

I submit that this is precisely what will make the problem worse. It just causes more polarization which gives more fuel to each side's propaganda machine.

 

It's just like how people work: when someone represses childhood memories, the negative emotions and beliefs that came from that memory resurface later in life as irrational destructive patterns of thinking and behavior, and they try to repress and control those, then more pop up, etc. The same reactionary impulse to repress is happening here (on both sides) and indulging it will do nothing but prevent the actual wound in our collective psyches from being healed.

[gendao]

ID says all power be to rich white guys (God obviously favored them to give such good conditions), and everyone and everything else should lay waste to his disposal. Frightening barbarism.

Aha, so now we're getting somewhere...

 

So, perhaps your real problem here is with "barbaric rich white guys" - not ID (which your mind merely projected on them). (I'm guessing you must be a 40-something Baby Boomer?)

 

Of which perhaps you are, or secretly aspire to be, one yourself?

 

Or perhaps your dad is one? And you resent your dad...

 

So then maybe your real beef is with your dad, not "rich white guys?"

 

And perhaps you might resent your dad because he hurt your self-esteem in some way. Made favored another sibling and made you feel inadequate or inferior somehow?

 

So then maybe your beef is not really with your dad, but some aspect of yourself that you don't like?

 

This is not to say that ID is right or wrong, rich white guys are or aren't barbaric or your dad may or may not be a jerk who played favorites...but that ultimately your beef is with yourself, regardless. You only exhibit an overemotional bias against all these other triggers because you associated them with your root problem within yourself. And so resonate with, superconsciously orchestrate and take all these impersonal issues VERY personally.

 

The good news though is that if you were to reintegrate this part of yourself that you had cast off - then you would immediately resolve your emotional bias against all these other tangential issues built upon it. They would no longer be of any personal concern to you and you could then discuss them dispassionately on a purely mental level without getting so emotionally disturbed...

 

It's not about ID, it's about YOU.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Namaste!

Edited May 10, 2011 by vortex