The So-called "Tree of Life" has been debunked

[Machin Shin]

Data from the Martian Rovers that shows that life was on Mars.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Machin Shin

[Apech]

Aha, so now we're getting somewhere...

 

So, perhaps your real problem here is with "barbaric rich white guys" - not ID (which your mind merely projected on them). (I'm guessing you must be a 40-something Baby Boomer?)

 

Of which perhaps you are, or secretly aspire to be, one yourself?

 

Or perhaps your dad is one? And you resent your dad...

 

So then maybe your real beef is with your dad, not "rich white guys?"

 

And perhaps you might resent your dad because he hurt your self-esteem in some way. Made favored another sibling and made you feel inadequate or inferior somehow?

 

So then maybe your beef is not really with your dad, but some aspect of yourself that you don't like?

 

This is not to say that ID is right or wrong, rich white guys are or aren't barbaric or your dad may or may not be a jerk who played favorites...but that ultimately your beef is with yourself, regardless. You only exhibit an overemotional bias against all these other triggers because you associated them with your root problem within yourself. And so resonate with, superconsciously orchestrate and take all these impersonal issues VERY personally.

 

The good news though is that if you were to reintegrate this part of yourself that you had cast off - then you would immediately resolve your emotional bias against all these other tangential issues built upon it. They would no longer be of any personal concern to you and you could then discuss them dispassionately on a purely mental level without getting so emotionally disturbed...

 

It's not about ID, it's about YOU.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Namaste!

 

Is there a legitimate debate to had about evolution and ID? Yes I think so.

 

Is there any point in attempting to psycho-analyse another poster and reduce any debate to someone's 'issues'. No I don't think so.

 

I think the question we should be debating is -

 

1) Is there anything about evolution theory which conflicts with Taoism (or mysticism generally if you prefer). ????

 

2) If so does ID solve any of the problems thrown up by this conflict?

 

My answer to 1) is there might be but this is not because the idea of things evolving is flawed (because that is quite Taoist) but because we place value in mind or consciousness and therefore individual will and decisions.

 

My answer to 2) is no. Because ID is just Deus ex machina ... it just solves everything by positing a God action (creation) without saying anything about possible mechanisms.

[Spectrum]

The Tree is Alive and Well

 

Live to Love Love to Live

[Encephalon]

[Encephalon]

del

Edited May 10, 2011 by Blasto

[Immortal4life]

This is a topic about processes in nature, the nature of Life, and how the material world works. These are fundamental issus that must be resolved and understood in any spiritual path. Yes it just so happens that it encompasses and exposes a flaw in the theory of eovlution, but that is just circumstantial.

 

It is not a thread about Intelligent Design, and if you look at the thread, it is not me who brought the issue of Intelligent Design into it. It is only the emotional reactions of some people who can't seem to see a flaw in their understanding as anything but an attack by ID on Evolution.

 

However, the source of this is New Scientist, a reputable mainstream source, not connected to Intelligent Design.

[Apech]

 

 

I am glad we are in agreement. Had this not been your conclusion we would be obliged to say that the moderators of this board don't possess the necessary scientific background to draw informed conclusions about these matters. Which isn't a stab in the back. Your average American tv journalist can't explain the principle of relativity.

 

I have an honours degree in Physics from Manchester University (England) if that helps reassure you.

[Encephalon]

I have an honours degree in Physics from Manchester University (England) if that helps reassure you.

 

It does so deeply.

Gassho.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Blasto

[Marblehead]

The spirit does not waste energy. It saddens me that your monkey suffered so. Perhaps the Good Witch of the North can heal him...or maybe one of Padmasambhava's disciples will help him reincarnate if he's between lives.

 

The Hanuman statue at the ashram is in a flying posture, and as I understand things it's in His epic when He's flying to get medicine for a pair of twins.

 

Meanwhile on topic:

 

What I understand is that there are people in university labs doing exciting research into the completely complex area of genetics. They are just doing it to get a job. They probably need some love and guidance. And a monkey bite on the arse.

 

Hehehe. (What should I respond to?)

 

Yean, the first time I learned a little about genetic engineering I thought that this would be a wonderful field for a young person to go into.

 

But the monkey? Oh my. He is not the keeper of "The Key" because he is useless for anything else. No manlihood, you know.

[Encephalon]

This is a topic about processes in nature, the nature of Life, and how the material world works.

 

No, this the latest in 400 year-old temper tantrum being thrown by religionists who think that the Enlightenment kicked God off the throne and left us poor mortals defenseless against the ravages of moral relativism. The only thing is, we're not eating our young or practicing pedophilia just because an authoritarian religious hierarchy is no longer calling the shots. Because of our religious tradition though, we have failed to find our ecological niche and we're going to go down in flames

 

These are fundamental issus that must be resolved and understood in any spiritual path.

 

Only absolutists MUST have ultimate understanding to feel spiritually legitimate. for the rest of us, the acceptance of ambiguity in the world is generally recognized as maturity.

 

Yes it just so happens that it encompasses and exposes a flaw in the theory of eovlution, but that is just circumstantial.

 

Pthhtp!

 

It is not a thread about Intelligent Design, and if you look at the thread, it is not me who brought the issue of Intelligent Design into it. It is only the emotional reactions of some people who can't seem to see a flaw in their understanding as anything but an attack by ID on Evolution.

 

You've been waving this banner since you landed. Why fib now when you've been so professionally disengenuous?

 

However, the source of this is New Scientist, a reputable mainstream source, not connected to Intelligent Design.

 

Ah yes, the "Reader's Digest" of the non-peer reviewed science beat. Your talent for citing irrelevent sources has always been impeccable.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Blasto

[Nanashi]

Aha, so now we're getting somewhere...

 

So, perhaps your real problem here is with "barbaric rich white guys" - not ID (which your mind merely projected on them).

 

My father died when I was two months old, and I am not a Baby Boomer-- your detective skills are as sad as your reasoning skills, not that anyone here should care about your faults-- much like you attempt to create baseless faults about me. You are like a child who wanders into the middle of a conversation.

 

If one's mind is not so feeble to be brainwashed by Christianity, then they see the connection between ID and the western destructive mindset. I only get passionate because this is the crux of the world's problems-- if you or I4L could see how destructive of a mindset ID is to follow from, well... maybe that is too much to ask.

[Marblehead]

It is not a thread about Intelligent Design, and if you look at the thread, it is not me who brought the issue of Intelligent Design into it. It is only the emotional reactions of some people who can't seem to see a flaw in their understanding as anything but an attack by ID on Evolution.

 

But the opening post was as debunking of Science and in particular the fact of evolution. This immediately presents the question: "Why is this person trying to debunk Science?"

 

Taoism and Science are totally compatible, IMO.

 

Christianity seems to have a problem with Science except when they are taking advantage of what is useful to them. Now, I am not say that all Christians are this way. I would never suggest that. But it is those who wish to continue to maintain control of the masses who are doing this.

 

For a person to ignore the facts of reality is a sign that they must carry a security blanket around with them in the form of their religion in order to make sense of reality.

 

Reality is what it is regardless of what religion a person holds to.

 

It is my opinion that one can find understanding in Taoist Philosophy through the observation of the processes in the universe. Some things we won't initially understand but we can always ask questions. Caution should be used in selecting the person we are going to ask questions to though. There are many people who have egotistical and power goals who will lead one astray.

[Soar]

This is a topic about processes in nature, the nature of Life, and how the material world works. These are fundamental issus that must be resolved and understood in any spiritual path.

Yes but not through science. Spiritual paths have their own methods of inquiry.

[Marblehead]

I only get passionate because ...

 

Hehehe. Try to keep the passion in check, my friend. Passion gets in the way of clear thinking. (And yes, I know very well about that!!!)

[Marblehead]

Yes but not through science. Spiritual paths have their own methods of inquiry.

 

Very excellent point.

[Nanashi]

Here is a tiny example of how ID gives fools their own god-complex.

 

Jail in South Carolina bans all books except Bible.

 

Again, just a tiny-- and recent-- example of how ID is contributing (and has contributed-- I need not bring up the Spanish Inquisitions) in the destruction of humanity.

 

And no, vortex-- I have never been imprisoned, nor lived in the South.

 

Here is a comment from that news article:

 

"When imprisoned in my youth, twice, as a draft soldier, I was allowed more choice than that: there was the Bible, but also the Military Rules book... Wasn't allowed pen and paper, either.

 

The idea of this was explained to me, in a very straightforward way, by the colonel himself, to whom I had complained that this rendered me mad: this was a place where reigned one unique thought, fundamental Christianism, and the army was it's armed extension. The barracks' prisons were considered as the last places were God were reigning supreme, and were people could be cleaned of all their wrong thoughts, and transformed.

 

If they suffered and felt getting mad at this intellectual and mental mutilation, all the better. The sinners wholly merited to suffer, and their suffering was helping them to pay for our sins and purify.

 

When I asked why not have torture sessions then, I saw in his eyes he had been thinking of it... Unfortunately, this was (not yet) possible."

[Nanashi]

A small note to add, then I will try to stop harping on the subject: the Spanish Inquisition was not finally abolished until 1834.

 

People here should be insulted by the mention of ID-- 200 years ago, most of the topics discussed here (not even the more esoteric stuff) would have had us burned for witchery in Europe or America. To even entertain ID now, in the 21st century, is an insult to all those who've suffered in the past and a direct insult to those of us who would rather not relive these atrocities in present times.

[ralis]

Two recent decisions by the Texas School Board that will affect millions of children.

 

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/21/national/main6506099.shtml

 

http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/29/creationists-on-texas-school-board-prevail-watered-down-science-coming-to-your-kids-textbooks/

[Nanashi]

Hehehe. Try to keep the passion in check, my friend.

 

These are lives we are talking about, currently being ruined by those influenced by ID. If we are not to be passionate about anything so basic, what are we doing but wasting words? Ralis just posted further proof of the current destruction. I can pity willful ignorance, but I can't idly stand by-- for I4L's ignorance may be his bliss, but it is hell for other people.

[Encephalon]

Aha, so now we're getting somewhere...

 

So, perhaps your real problem here is with "barbaric rich white guys" - not ID (which your mind merely projected on them). (I'm guessing you must be a 40-something Baby Boomer?)

 

Of which perhaps you are, or secretly aspire to be, one yourself?

 

Or perhaps your dad is one? And you resent your dad...

 

So then maybe your real beef is with your dad, not "rich white guys?"

 

And perhaps you might resent your dad because he hurt your self-esteem in some way. Made favored another sibling and made you feel inadequate or inferior somehow?

 

So then maybe your beef is not really with your dad, but some aspect of yourself that you don't like?

 

This is not to say that ID is right or wrong, rich white guys are or aren't barbaric or your dad may or may not be a jerk who played favorites...but that ultimately your beef is with yourself, regardless. You only exhibit an overemotional bias against all these other triggers because you associated them with your root problem within yourself. And so resonate with, superconsciously orchestrate and take all these impersonal issues VERY personally.

 

The good news though is that if you were to reintegrate this part of yourself that you had cast off - then you would immediately resolve your emotional bias against all these other tangential issues built upon it. They would no longer be of any personal concern to you and you could then discuss them dispassionately on a purely mental level without getting so emotionally disturbed...

 

It's not about ID, it's about YOU.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Namaste!

 

 

I have to go with Nanashi here, Vort. This post of yours was the first compelling evidence that sheds doubt on evolution. Your previous screeds on extra-terrestrial DNA being used by the Bilderbergs to grow an army of Manchurian candidates for the Obama Administration in order to open diplomatic relations with Atlantis had a certain imaginative boldness, but this crap is just mean-spirited ignorance. What the hell have you been doing for the last couple of years, Iron Crotch on crack?

[Nanashi]

Edited May 11, 2011 by Nanashi

[Machin Shin]

Pax Imperialis!

 

 

 

I am still wondering about that woman complaining about her bad project and the protocols being in Thai?

What does that imply for genetic research?

[gendao]

I have to go with Nanashi here, Vort. This post of yours was the first compelling evidence that sheds doubt on evolution. Your previous screeds on extra-terrestrial DNA being used by the Bilderbergs to grow an army of Manchurian candidates for the Obama Administration in order to open diplomatic relations with Atlantis had a certain imaginative boldness, but this crap is just mean-spirited ignorance. What the hell have you been doing for the last couple of years, Iron Crotch on crack?

Lol, actually I was applying some Byron Katie self-inquiry as an example. Because it's actually helped me a lot.

 

Unfortunately, my cold reading was an EPIC FAIL...but the technique itself is still very sound. Nanashi is still nonetheless conflating ID with a number of other groups like "rich Western white barbaric Christian men" that are perhaps his deeper targets.

 

However, the problem is that not all ID proponents fit this grouping. I'm sure many are poor redneck Fundies or non-Western, non-Christians who simply believe in other Deist/monist religions or general spirituality. And whose to say that a South American shaman or Hindu yogi might not also believe in some sort of ID??

 

Moreso, many evolutionists are "rich Western white men" - including eugenicists who believed in "barbaric" Social Darwinism as a necessary mechanism for strengthening the species. So, this polarized stereotyping is something of a false dichotomy.

 

Etc, etc - there's just so many logical inconsistencies here when overpoliticized..

 

But in reality, evolution doesn't disprove the Bible, and nor does ID prove it. I'm not even personally a big fan of Judeo-Christian religions - I'm mainly just pointing out some narrow stereotyping, underlying logical fallacies and shifting paradigms here.

 

Again, I personally subscribe to the 3rd option - the alien hybridization program.

Edited May 11, 2011 by vortex

[Nanashi]

Lol, actually I was applying some Byron Katie self-inquiry as an example. Because it's actually helped me a lot.

 

Unfortunately, my cold reading was an EPIC FAIL...but the technique itself is still very sound. Nanashi is still nonetheless conflating ID with a number of other groups like "rich Western white barbaric Christian men" that are perhaps his deeper targets.

 

However, the problem is that not all ID proponents fit this grouping. I'm sure many are poor redneck Fundies or non-Western, non-Christians who simply believe in other Deist/monist religions or general spirituality. Whose to say a South American shaman or Hindu yogi might not also believe in some sort of ID??

 

Moreso, many evolutionists are "rich Western white men" - including eugenicists who believed in "barbaric" Social Darwinism as a necessary mechanism for strengthening the species.

 

Etc, etc - there's just so many logical inconsistencies here when overpoliticized..

 

But in reality, evolution doesn't disprove the Bible, and nor does ID prove it. I'm not even personally a big fan of Judeo-Christian religions - I'm mainly just pointing out some narrow stereotyping, underlying logical fallacies and shifting paradigms here.

 

You aren't pointing out anything-- you may think you are, or attempting to, but your assumptions continue to just point out how you think. Hindu Yogis aren't bothering us with these topics, nor do they have the international reach/resources to launch a propaganda campaign.

 

I brought up eugenics because, like ID, it was a process in our thinking, the cultural history of man, that was necessary to realize as untrue. I was also trying to think of a shocking comparison so people may realize the stain ID-driven thought has on humanity, and how offensive it is.

[gendao]

I brought up eugenics because, like ID, it was a process in our thinking, the cultural history of man, that was necessary to realize as untrue. I was also trying to think of a shocking comparison so people may realize the stain ID-driven thought has on humanity, and how offensive it is.

Exactly, but my point was that eugenics was an EVOLUTIONIST-driven thought, NOT ID-driven thought. So you were actually demonstrating the opposite example..

 

But this is exactly what happens when you mix politics, emotions, religion and science, lol. All the science gets drowned out..

 

So, reality is that Fundy Scientists can be just as pre-biased and illogical as Fundy Christians. Mentally, you guys all have a lot more in common than you think!

Edited May 11, 2011 by vortex