Neigung styles and teachers?

[Seth Ananda]

Hi everyone.

I have been wondering for a while about the different Neigung schools out there.

For Instance the Neigung in C,K, Chu's book [tons of horse and stance training] seems very different to more meditative style Neigung like Johny Changs stuff.

 

 

So whats the story, How does it all fit together, who are the real teachers, what worthy material is in print/dvd, who are the sheisters...?

 

Thanks in advance

[Sloppy Zhang]

I throw in a vote for B.K. Frantzis. He's got a ton of personal experience with a lot of things from some very direct sources.

 

That said, by his own admission the stuff out in print is low intensity stuff physically and energetically. It's still incredibly good, though. Just low impact on all levels.

 

I do think that he knows a lot about a lot of things, can do them practically, and can teach them practically.

 

John Chang type stuff? I've only seen it alluded to in some of his books, but all he usually ever writes is "classically such things came after years of high level training", which to me sounds like when the military says "we can neither confirm nor deny the accuracy of this report". So take from that what you will, but if you believe that Frantzis has done all that he's said he has done, then he'd know.

 

But he also makes it very clear that that isn't what his tradition is about. I seem to recall SFJane made a post (possibly in her siddhis thread?) about a conversation she had with him, back when she was "chasing abilities", in which he asked her why she wanted stuff and what she would do if she got it, which prompted her to look more seriously at her internal issues and to resolve them, which IS what Frantzis' stuff is about. (Apologies if that report is not accurate)

Edited May 11, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Encephalon]

I'm coming up on my 4th year of CK Chu's nei kung routine. It's strong current chi flow but it's also a form of martial art nei kung. What I am experiencing in my young NK career is a dissolution of physical asymmetries. Before, I could only fire out a great round kick with my L, and a good side kick with my R. Now they're even. The same can be said for a lot of torso flexibility in both directions. I'm sure it's preparing me for tai chi practice extremely well as my current is strong, but I am limited slightly by my age.

 

I do three 45-minute sessions of Frantzis' dissolving meditation also.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Blasto

[Creation]

Hi Seth.

 

Part of the confusion is the fact that two teachers saying they teach neigong do not necessarily have the same definition of the term.

 

One book on Bagua I read defined neigong as the component of training dealing with the small muscles, soft tissue, etc. which allowed one to develop power that did not come from muscular strength. This is what one might call a "gross" type of neigong.

 

Guys who are into Mo Pai, etc. define nei gong to mean filling the dan tian, compressing qi, etc. This is a subtle kind of neigong.

 

Others use neigong in contradistinction to qigong, saying qigong uses external movements, whereas neigong is done in stillness, or qigong uses visualization, breathing, etc. to move qi whereas in neigong you manipulate qi directly.

 

And then there is Bruce Frantzis' very general definition, which involves learning to control pretty much every aspect of the physical body and qi directly, which he breaks in 16 parts (breathing, alignments, soft tissue, opening and closing, moving energy, absorbing and projecting energy, spiraling energy, dissolving, manipulating meridians, working with the aura, working with the spine, working with the lower dan tian, working with the middle and upper dan tian, working with the left right channels, working with the central channel, and integration).

 

So which kind are you interested in?

[Seth Ananda]

Thanks guys.

Blasto, I just aquired Chu's book, to assist in foundation strengh training for the Taiji that I do:

 

But I was surprised to see no 'subtle' neigong in the book.

 

I think I am really Interested in both the martial neigong, and the Subtle neigong. I just love LDT meditation. I have discovered lots in myself with it, but want to learn more...?

 

And I do love B.K. Frantzis as well.

 

Thanks, and tell me more... lol

 

Seth.

[Kronos]

For Instance the Neigung in C,K, Chu's book [tons of horse and stance training] seems very different to more meditative style Neigung like Johny Changs stuff.

 

I learned the basics of 2 neigong "styles" and they're very similar. Both have stance/horse stance AND sitting meditation. I think a "sitting only"-system must be incomplete.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Kronos]

A complete System has

 

Sitting

Standing

Moving

Lying

 

Q

 

jop :-)

[Ya Mu]

Stillness-Movement Neigong has:

 

Sitting

Standing

Prone

Movements

Sleeping

Dreaming

Walking (separate from movements)

Running (separate from walking)

Healing Others Methodologies

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Seth Ananda]

Thanks Kronos, so do these styles have any content available to the general public?

And does anyone know of any good Neigung resources?

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Seth Ananda]

As said I have Chu's book which I like, but it has no seated practice which I am interested in.

Clyman looks Interesting but I want to know more...

 

I hear that Neikung [the meditational stuff] is where Its really at practice wise, Is very powerful Dan Tien work, Fuses the Hun and the Po and does all the other really groovy stuff as well... lol.

 

So I want to know what Good stuff is out there, who the good teachers are, before forking out money for material.

 

On Michael Lomax, I have his book and DVD. I read his book and did not get much out of it practical wise. The DVD looked Interesting but is [i think] qigong, and as I was already doing Spring Forest at the time I did not explore it further. I have been planning to get back to it for a while to feel its style. Why do you call it Neikung? Is there some of that In it? Or does he have further material available on Neikung?

Sorry Micheal to talk around you, I was answering Friend there, but of course feel free to fill me in.

 

Thanks again guys

[mjjbecker]

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/15225-stillness-movement-neigong-and-michael-lomaxs-light-warriors-guide-book/page__hl__light%20warrior

[Kali Yuga]

[yoda] define neigong before ask questions, you must. [/yoda]

[Creation]

Hey Seth.

 

I'm only just beginning to get a small inkling of why Gift of the Tao is so special (I'm really quite dense...) If you try it out, make sure to really tune into the energies around Michael in the DVD and tune into the energies around, above, and below you when you practice and see what kind of effect the moves have. I'll be curious to hear what you experience.

 

I am very curious about my dan tian too: elusive portal, cauldron, and center.

 

As I'm sure you know, a big part Stillness Movement is meditating on dan tian, so that sounds right up your alley, though it is a ways to travel (though if you are ever in Missouri I want to meet you!).

 

I also really like the Golden Flower mudra from the Kunlun book.

 

If you are curious about Clyman, all of his book is on the web except for the section with detailed practice instructions (what he calls "chi kung" I think qualifies as neigong):

http://www.okolo.org/chikungbible.pdf

I gather that his system mostly consists of variants of condensing breathing and various qi circulations put together in a very nice package.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Creation

[Creation]

Stillness-Movement Neigong has:

...

Prone

...

First I've heard of this part of the system. Had to look it up: lying on the belly?

[kathyli]

[寒月 Hanyue]

zhangong (standing)

zuogong (sitting)

wogong (lying)

xinggong (moving)

 

Are just 'modes', all cultivation systems use a version sometimes four, sometimes five, sometimes more. It is only a shell and hardly speaks of the true depth or mystery that any real system has going on. It's not even the tip of the iceberg, just the snowflakes on the tip.

 

It is WHAT is being done that makes something unique and what it is, not how it appears.

 

Best,

[lifeforce]

Xing Yi Nei Gong

 

This book speaks for itself. A guy approaching 100 years old on the front cover.

A lifestyle, not just an exercise system.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Ya Mu]

First I've heard of this part of the system. Had to look it up: lying on the belly?

Sorry, I misspoke - Slow brain when I posted this morning. So used to telling people to get prone (face down) on the table for treatment. The correct word is supine. Although we do in fact have a part of the Stillness-Movement directed toward ming men which you have not seen.

 

Stillness-Movement Neigong has:

 

Sitting

Standing

Supine

Movements

Sleeping

Dreaming

Walking (separate from movements)

Running (separate from walking)

Healing Others Methodologies

 

Seth,

People would have to actually practice what is written and well-described in the book to get any benefit. Stillness-Movement is, at it's core, a meditative form. And for the awesomely amazing and effective treatment practices listed to be effective one would have to practice the Stillness-Movement. The time duration of level enhancement for a person would be greatly assisted by receiving the Awakening energy projection during a workshop. Although, depending on "who you are", many people do quite well from the book.

 

Gift of the Tao movements are indeed neigong; these are patterns derived from Stillness-Movement and utilize both Heaven and Earth qi. They can be quite effective on their own but when combined with the Stillness-Movement they are particularly complementary and enhancing to each other.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Ya Mu

[Ya Mu]

zhangong (standing)

zuogong (sitting)

wogong (lying)

xinggong (moving)

 

Are just 'modes', all cultivation systems use a version sometimes four, sometimes five, sometimes more. It is only a shell and hardly speaks of the true depth or mystery that any real system has going on. It's not even the tip of the iceberg, just the snowflakes on the tip.

 

It is WHAT is being done that makes something unique and what it is, not how it appears.

 

Best,

+++

[寒月 Hanyue]

Hi everyone.

I have been wondering for a while about the different Neigung schools out there.

 

So whats the story, How does it all fit together, who are the real teachers, what worthy material is in print/dvd, who are the sheisters...?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Depends on what you want, as always. Neigong means different things to different people. Generally neigong is concerned with neiqi development and inner to outer. Many practitioners of these kinds of Daoist practice also did martial arts and so now there is 'martial' neigong, where the energetic aspects are layered with conditioning. As I have been lucky enough to have this distinction demonstrated for me it has helped put where these practices cross over and do not into much better perspective. Something I was confused over for a long time.

 

So depending on what you want, then different things are good and others won't be.

 

Best,

[Seth Ananda]

Whats Gary Clymans stuff like? Any good feedback? And does it also have a meditation side?