ejr1069 Posted May 11, 2011 I am wondering if a shaman initiate gets spiritually beat up, unfairly judged, cast in a bad light repeatedly while not being recognized for the good deeds they do. Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShaktiMama Posted May 11, 2011 I am wondering if a shaman initiate gets spiritually beat up, unfairly judged, cast in a bad light repeatedly while not being recognized for the good deeds they do. Thoughts? we all do... s 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted May 11, 2011 we all do... s /Thread. John Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Hi ej! Not if they keep their mouths shut! heehee!!❤ Your thoughts give you away. The ability to take over creation unbeknownst to anyone is the hallmark of initiation. One's desire for recognition is deserving of punishment. Whatever it is you are doing …stop. Edited May 14, 2011 by deci belle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) we all do... s LOL I don't think you can assume all Shamanic traditions operate the same way, have the same beliefs or traditions. IMO they're a hard group to generalize on. What Deci Belle said 'Not if they keep their mouths shut! heehee!!❤' is important. If your strange and showy you can attract negative attention. If you blend in, and do your strange stuff subtlety, you avoid distractions. You can get away dancing naked, covered in mud, but not in the middle of town. Sometimes the only thing that separates the mad man from the holyman is where they chose to practice. Edited May 12, 2011 by thelerner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted May 12, 2011 Are you asking this question because you feel you are being treated this way? I am wondering if a shaman initiate gets spiritually beat up, unfairly judged, cast in a bad light repeatedly while not being recognized for the good deeds they do. Thoughts? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) A scene from Futurama, from the episode "Godfellas" Bender: You know, I was God once. God: Yes, I saw. You were doing well, until everyone died. God: Bender, being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you, and if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch. Like a safecracker, or a pickpocket. Bender: Or a guy who burns down a bar for the insurance money! God: Yes, if you make it look like an electrical thing. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbinE6bx8xM Edited May 12, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted May 12, 2011 I am wondering if a shaman initiate gets spiritually beat up, unfairly judged, cast in a bad light repeatedly while not being recognized for the good deeds they do. Thoughts? Hello Erj1069, I think they do, but as others have said, it's because they are different. The moment you stand against the status quo you begin to be seen as a threat. We're taught from a young age to be normal, to be a part of the group, when we start to deviate from that group then people tend to see us as a threat. Where are our loyalties? If push comes to shove will we stand by the group? The reason for these beatings is simply to try to get us back in line. Like the child who refuses to eat their vegetables, we will be punished until we eat our vegetables. Funny thing is, we can complain about eating our vegetables and no one seems to care that we don't want to do it, or dislike it, just so long as we do it. Smiling and saying thank you does help though. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShaktiMama Posted May 12, 2011 I am wondering if a shaman initiate gets spiritually beat up, unfairly judged, cast in a bad light repeatedly while not being recognized for the good deeds they do. Thoughts? My friend, Mr. Snowmonkey as I think he is known on this list, gave me this a few years back. It is a nice overview written by a real native shaman. So you wanna be a Shaman.pdf 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adishakti Posted May 12, 2011 I think a person who is smiling and happy all the time also get this treatment, not nearly as bad but sometimes pretty close. name='ejr1069' date='12 May 2011 - 04:03 AM' timestamp='1305153229' post='259320'] I am wondering if a shaman initiate gets spiritually beat up, unfairly judged, cast in a bad light repeatedly while not being recognized for the good deeds they do. Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ejr1069 Posted May 12, 2011 Are you asking this question because you feel you are being treated this way? Yes, I frequently feel unfairly criticized while at the same time not getting any recognition for the good things I do. It just gets old. Every so often it would be nice to get a pat on the back or to not feel ostracized by society. I am guessing it is because I am doing osmethign wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted May 12, 2011 Yes, I frequently feel unfairly criticized while at the same time not getting any recognition for the good things I do. It just gets old. Every so often it would be nice to get a pat on the back or to not feel ostracized by society. I am guessing it is because I am doing osmethign wrong. What sort of shamanic good things do you do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted May 12, 2011 based on my experience, I do not think your feelings are directly connected to shamanism. It sounds more like personal issues that can best be addressed with a counselor. A shaman does not seek to be recognized or rewarded for their deeds. A shaman is only interested in helping to bring balance. Many times a shaman will choose to help without anyone knowing about it. I suggest finding the friendly ear of a qualified counselor. Yes, I frequently feel unfairly criticized while at the same time not getting any recognition for the good things I do. It just gets old. Every so often it would be nice to get a pat on the back or to not feel ostracized by society. I am guessing it is because I am doing osmethign wrong. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ejr1069 Posted May 12, 2011 Well, I can't for sure say that I am a shaman. I simpluy know that there is a great deal of spiritual energy flowing through me that caused me to get massively sick upon it's onset. And ever since then I have been slowly recovering, becoming more kind, loving, compassionate and open minded. And have been continuosluy working on being less judgemntntal. Acts of service? I do a lot in my neighborhood, especiall;y with youth, but I am learning that it is not good to talk about this. I have done so in the past and people feel like I am bragging. They also feel like I am too "preachy" when they ask for advice and I give it. Some of my pains I believe are from being so visible in the commumnity. When you put yourself out there, you open yourself up to criticism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShaktiMama Posted May 12, 2011 Well, I can't for sure say that I am a shaman. I simpluy know that there is a great deal of spiritual energy flowing through me that caused me to get massively sick upon it's onset. And ever since then I have been slowly recovering, becoming more kind, loving, compassionate and open minded. And have been continuosluy working on being less judgemntntal. Acts of service? I do a lot in my neighborhood, especiall;y with youth, but I am learning that it is not good to talk about this. I have done so in the past and people feel like I am bragging. They also feel like I am too "preachy" when they ask for advice and I give it. Some of my pains I believe are from being so visible in the commumnity. When you put yourself out there, you open yourself up to criticism. Consider this is part of your initiation. s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted May 12, 2011 As a long-time Castaneda person, don Juan Mateus makes it clear to Carlos that there is indeed a shamanic initiation sickness of sorts, that actually tries to kill you. In my case it was alcoholism....and very much self-created. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Consider this is part of your initiation. s As a long-time Castaneda person, don Juan Mateus makes it clear to Carlos that there is indeed a shamanic initiation sickness of sorts, that actually tries to kill you. In my case it was alcoholism....and very much self-created. I too have heard about some pretty rough, near death initiations that shamans in some cultures MUST go through for them to be recognized as such. It either means conquering death, having your old self die, becoming friends with death, getting closer to the other side, glimpsing the other side, etc etc etc etc. Not all love and light, a shaman has got to look at the side of life that people don't always want to see or even really know about. Edited May 12, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted May 12, 2011 I think a person who is smiling and happy all the time also get this treatment, not nearly as bad but sometimes pretty close. name='ejr1069' date='12 May 2011 - 04:03 AM' timestamp='1305153229' post='259320'] I am wondering if a shaman initiate gets spiritually beat up, unfairly judged, cast in a bad light repeatedly while not being recognized for the good deeds they do. Thoughts? it does seem there are folks who have a haunting fear that somewhere, somehow, someone is enjoying life. and for ejr, if you feel you are being called to shaman world that is a good sign. ignore detractors. continue to explore your own transformation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted May 12, 2011 My comments were not meant to dissuade you from pursuing a path of shamanism, but merely to point out that the feelings you mention are not by themselves indicators of shamanic initiation. The initiation that people are referring to is done by the spirits, not by other people. A shaman must first of all have an unshakeable will. Many many people have feelings like you have shared. That does not indicate they are shamans. If you are truly serious about becoming a shaman, it is in your best interest and the interest of those you will serve to investigate the source of your feelings of victimization. Come to think of it, that is true even if you are not a shaman. While I sympathize and relate to your feelings as probably we all do to some degree. Allowing yourself to feel victimized will hinder your spiritual progress. One major teaching of shamanic work is to understand that our external lives are merely projections of our inner reality. If a shaman is experiencing the situations you describe, they asks themselves "Why am I attracting this to myself?" A shaman is first and foremost a spiritual warrior who is ruthless with themselves... If you think you are a shaman, I strongly suggest you find a qualified shamanic teacher to help guide you through the initiation process... traditionally, if someone is called to be a shaman and they do not seek instruction, they can sometimes go insane... Well, I can't for sure say that I am a shaman. I simpluy know that there is a great deal of spiritual energy flowing through me that caused me to get massively sick upon it's onset. And ever since then I have been slowly recovering, becoming more kind, loving, compassionate and open minded. And have been continuosluy working on being less judgemntntal. Acts of service? I do a lot in my neighborhood, especiall;y with youth, but I am learning that it is not good to talk about this. I have done so in the past and people feel like I am bragging. They also feel like I am too "preachy" when they ask for advice and I give it. Some of my pains I believe are from being so visible in the commumnity. When you put yourself out there, you open yourself up to criticism. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShaktiMama Posted May 12, 2011 My comments were not meant to dissuade you from pursuing a path of shamanism, but merely to point out that the feelings you mention are not by themselves indicators of shamanic initiation. The initiation that people are referring to is done by the spirits, not by other people. A shaman must first of all have an unshakeable will. Many many people have feelings like you have shared. That does not indicate they are shamans. If you are truly serious about becoming a shaman, it is in your best interest and the interest of those you will serve to investigate the source of your feelings of victimization. Come to think of it, that is true even if you are not a shaman. While I sympathize and relate to your feelings as probably we all do to some degree. Allowing yourself to feel victimized will hinder your spiritual progress. One major teaching of shamanic work is to understand that our external lives are merely projections of our inner reality. If a shaman is experiencing the situations you describe, they asks themselves "Why am I attracting this to myself?" A shaman is first and foremost a spiritual warrior who is ruthless with themselves... If you think you are a shaman, I strongly suggest you find a qualified shamanic teacher to help guide you through the initiation process... traditionally, if someone is called to be a shaman and they do not seek instruction, they can sometimes go insane... I agree. I dont think of myself as a shaman although I have lots of shamanic abilities. The path chooses you...you have no choice is how I understand it from other shamans. You submit to the path or you die. s 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted May 12, 2011 A heightened sense of danger helps. You can avoid a lot of conflict and beatings up physical and mental as well if you see them coming at you. I'm very quiet about practice these days but I would say the muggles project a lot on you if you have any personal power. I'm saying this from the point of view of any energy practice not necessarily shamanism. From the old days ... "To dare, to know, to will, to keep silent." Still rings true for me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ejr1069 Posted May 12, 2011 Thank you for all the responses. I want to find my way on this spiritual endeavor. But do I need to slap a label on it? Shaman? Enlightened being? Something else? Does it matter? What I am sure of is that I am a conduit of divine energy. The people around me benefit from the energy that flows through me. Whatever that makes me, that's what I am. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted May 13, 2011 But do I need to slap a label on it? Shaman? Enlightened being? Something else? Does it matter? No. But you placed the shaman label on yourself with your original question concerning shamanic initiation and whether or not it applied to your circumstances. I think you got some good answers and based on your replies you may well be a shaman, but I must also say that in light of this response, I still think it is a good idea to examine your feelings and looking for ways that you have created your own environment.... my.02 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enishi Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) A friend of mine refers to himself as a shaman. Shamanic initiation HAPPENING TO a potential shaman rather than someone choosing to become a shaman in the same way you might choose to practice yoga is basically how he described it to me. For awhile I was confused as to why he was adamant about not learning from human teachers and would only listen to spirits, but now I understand it a little better. It's really not something the average person should want to seek out either, unless for some reason you don't mind going through several years of physical and mental torture. Edited May 13, 2011 by Enishi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted May 13, 2011 There are quite a few books, autobiographies, by Native American shamans. Of those I have read, pretty much all of them say they wouldn't wish the burden of being a shaman on anyone. Furthermore, the tests that Native American shamans endure bring them to the points of near death and levels of terror that few could withstand with their sanity in tact. They have to be able to more or less negotiate with forces more powerful than most people would or could even contemplate. So, yes, there's going to be tests before these abilities are attained. Taoist adepts speak of being misled and tempted by spirits when they are nearing a higher level of attainment as well. There's also the "crabs in a bucket" side of "getting out." Other crabs will try to pull you back down into the bucket with them for some reason or another. As in China town, so in life.. lol. Consider too, as the Dalai Lama says (among others of course), that you should/can cherish your adversaries as you do your best friends since they are by far your greatest teachers of patience, determination, courage, forebearance.. all qualities necessary for advanced spiritual levels. "Your enemy is your Guru" As with all spiritual practices, the idea of "I am this" is really just one of those spirits (this time our own egos) pulling us back to an illusion that surrounds us, convincing us that this ego personality is real, when really its just an illusion reinforced by others and ourselves. It's just conceit - it's not real, it's not true. We are not this special thing. It does not exist other than in our beliefs. In The Diamond Sutra, chapter 9: Does a holy one say within himself, "I have obtained perfective enlightenment?"... No... If a holy one of perfected enlightenment said to himself "such am I [a holy one of perfected enlightenment]" he would partake of the idea of an ego entity, a personality, a being, or a separated individuality.... "...Chapter 28: bodhisattvas who achieve merit should not be fettered with desire for rewards. Thus it is said that the rewards of merit are not received." You don't receive your rewards -- even when you think you do *lauging on the inside* I'm just telling you what I've read mind you. I struggle to overcome these battles. I'm not sure if there is even a point where one no longer has fight with them. book reccomendations: Entering the Circle, Olga Kharitidi The Wind is My Mother, Bear Heart Honouring the Medicine, Kenneth Cohen Coyote Medicine, Lewis Mehl-Madrona 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
