Ruthless Truth

[Seth Ananda]

How much more desperately will your ego deny that someone can make a sincere effort and not reach the same conclusions as 'you', the classic evidence of your self-ness..

 

Be well, Seth..

I give up. I simply have now idea how you got this from what I wrote. How How How?

 

Did someone teach you a completely different meaning to the English Language?

[Otis]

 

Valuable Intellectual Traits

 

 

Intellectual Humility:

 

Intellectual Courage:

 

Intellectual Empathy:

 

Intellectual Integrity:

 

Intellectual Perseverance:

 

Faith In Reason:

 

Fairmindedness:

+1000! What a great post, Scott! I wish we could post this over the door of TTB, as a reminder.

[TzuJanLi]

I give up. I simply have now idea how you got this from what I wrote. How How How?

 

Did someone teach you a completely different meaning to the English Language?

Hi Seth: I 'got this' the same way you 'get' the following:

Because you claim to be honestly looking but refuse to glance in the direction indicated. Philosophical Cowardice.

Not only have i 'glanced', i've walked the walk, but it goes nowhere, a dead end.. no authenticity, no originality.. just followers of someone else's experiences,

 

"Philosophical Cowardice"? these are the words of someone hiding at the other end of a cyber disguise, praying for the protection of the no-self invisibility clause..

 

You dialogue like the rest of the RT groupies, nothing is true that you don't believe is true or that Cirian won't let you believe.. will you think for yourself, can you?

 

Be well..

[Encephalon]

+1000! What a great post, Scott! I wish we could post this over the door of TTB, as a reminder.

 

Already been tried. Useless gesture. It does do well in certain workplaces however.

 

http://www.criticalthinking.org/articles/valuable-intellectual-traits.cfm

Edited May 15, 2011 by Blasto

[Encephalon]

In some ways you could call me a Zenist, but not a Buddhist. I truly appreciate the concepts inherent in Zen, but I don't necessarily agree with the four noble truths or the eightfold path. I actually asked about practicing Zen without Buddhism and the general consensus seemed to be that it couldn't be done, so I decided I'd just practice Zazen, since it helps me to find a place of balance and peace.

 

Anyways, I'm not trying to show any disrespect. I guess I was surprised by your response, because overall you seem to be a very conscientious and compassionate person, so those comments struck me as odd. Peace be with you.

 

Aaron

 

If the mood ever strikes you, the voluminous record of zen training and promulgation by western monastics such as Thomas Merton, Brother David Steindl-Rast, Father Thomas Keating and others is clear that zen transcends religious allegiance.

 

Also, zen training is zazen; replacing one with the other can't be done.

 

finally, and I'm beginning to channel Seth's perturbation - The Noble Truths and the 8-Fold Path are not beliefs to be believed. They are not beliefs! They are investigative tools. Honestly, at some point a meaningful conversation still depends on understanding what we do not subscribe to!

 

THE FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS AND THE EIGHT FOLD PATH ARE NOT BELIEFS!

[Birch]

The entity formally known as Kate suspects Mr Simple J to refer to another entity who often used the r-word and pissed people off in threads by throwing the you-word around quite heavily. But she can't figure out why she thinks that and she finds that pretty strange in and of itself.

[Otis]

The Noble Truths and the 8-Fold Path are ... investigative tools.

Yeah, I think this is a great point. They are not moral rules, but suggestions for finding one's path.

[Informer]

If one is aware that the ego that intercepts and owns credit, isn't the true self, or even true experience, that's as far as it needs to go. It is simply getting over yourself.

 

RT is not teaching this. Their final realization is that "you don't exist" and "I don't exist" Which is not equivallent to "you doesn't exist", which isn't as absolute.

 

This is obviously only half of the story as already explained by buddha. Tzu's intention here is nothing more than to prevent people from being engulfed in the endless nothingness that is at debate here.

 

This is what is called cutting the root. One summons the kundalini through the IDA and DENIES him.

This is how one becomes one with nothing.

 

Of course for this to work the kundalini as to be at root, so they berate the spirit with uncouth mannerism's and un-loving nature.

 

If one wishes to experience the void, one should have as much existence as possible accumulated and stored, that one may decide to turn around.

[xabir2005]

If one is aware that the ego that intercepts and owns credit, isn't the true self, or even true experience, that's as far as it needs to go. It is simply getting over yourself.

 

RT is not teaching this. Their final realization is that "you don't exist" and "I don't exist" Which is not equivallent to "you doesn't exist", which isn't as absolute.

 

This is obviously only half of the story as already explained by buddha. Tzu's intention here is nothing more than to prevent people from being engulfed in the endless nothingness that is at debate here.

 

This is what is called cutting the root. One summons the kundalini through the IDA and DENIES him.

This is how one becomes one with nothing.

 

Of course for this to work the kundalini as to be at root, so they berate the spirit with uncouth mannerism's and un-loving nature.

 

If one wishes to experience the void, one should have as much existence as possible accumulated and stored, that one may decide to turn around.

It is not "I don't exist"

 

It is, there is no "I" that can be pinned down in or outside the five aggregates to begin with, much less to exist or not exist

Edited May 15, 2011 by xabir2005

[Andy_W]

To Andy:

 

In that case may I suggest you try self-inquiry, a direct path to self-realization and the initial direct realization of what Awareness is.

 

After you matured that experience and insight, you may continue to investigate on 'no self'.

 

See my e-journal/e-book which contains pointers and instructions on self-inquiry: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/12/my-e-booke-journal.html

 

Thanks for the link, should be an good read :-)

[Informer]

[Marblehead]

I made my attempt on the first page, but no one commented, so here goes again:

 

 

Hehehe. I'm reading your posts Otis. I just have nothing to say at the moment.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Do you suggest i accept everyone's opinions in opposition to my own awareness of what is so? i see what 'some' people believe about me, are you certain it's 'everyone'? Yes, it's easy to exaggerate and embellish to make your-'self' seem right, Lucky.. see how the 'self' works, it occasionally shoves its bloated self-image at others, polishing its self-righteousness with its superiority..

 

So, Lucky, you responded to an excerpt that asks you to address the differences of understanding, and.. as is the 'way', you reveal your 'selfness', asserting its viability by choosing to ignore the critical issue and resort to your preference of mockery and ridicule.. you make this so easy.

 

Be well..

Who taught you engrish? Nothing you write is clear, just mumble jumble intellectual jargon.

[Lucky7Strikes]

My understanding is that the self can't be found but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, rather you just can't find it because you are it. So saying there is absolutely no self is an assumption while also saying there is a self is an assumption.

This is what anatta and the middle way really means. It is stripping your mind from all unnecessary assertions when we experience things.

 

Can we say there is a God? No. Strip that away.

 

Can we say there is a self? No. So x that out too. Can we say there is "No" self? Not really...

 

Can we say there is the past? Can you find it? Not really. Can we even ascertain anything? It's like Chuang Tzu's butterfly dream.

 

Nothing is findable because everything is simply happening as it is. From this, to that, simply arising and disappearing on its own.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

Such Lies!

 

How do they acertain if someone has accomplished this realization?

 

They ask them if they exist and make them explain how and why they do not.

Your mind and body begin to go through transformative changes and experiences as it begins to drop habits of the past and opens up to spontaneous-presence-bliss.

 

Also you don't suffer unnecessarily, and even when you do, it's completely bearable .

[C T]

'Self' Realization -

 

The body is a bodhi tree

The mind is a bright mirror

Always diligently polish this mirror

so that dust may never collect.

 

 

'Non-self' Realization -

 

Bodhi is originally without a tree

The mirror is also without a stand

Originally there is not a single thing

Where is there a place for dust to collect?

(an exchange between Shenxiu and Huineng)

Edited May 15, 2011 by CowTao

[wingzero]

truth is what you want to see and what you project. The information you have in your head construct the truth you will see. What you think will manifest what you see. So basically since it varies from person to person, truth is an illusion. Everyone sees the truth in their own light.No one can claim to know the truth but only be a truth seeker.

[xabir2005]

'Self' Realization -

 

The body is a bodhi tree

The mind is a bright mirror

Always diligently polish this mirror

so that dust may never collect.

 

 

'Non-self' Realization -

 

Bodhi is originally without a tree

The mirror is also without a stand

Originally there is not a single thing

Where is there a place for dust to collect?

(an exchange between Shenxiu and Huineng)

No...

 

Gradual practice of clearing thoughts to reveal a state of awareness, no realization

 

The body is a bodhi tree

The mind is a bright mirror

Always diligently polish this mirror

so that dust may never collect.

 

Self-Realization

 

Bodhi is originally without a tree

The mirror is also without a stand

Originally there is not a single thing

Where is there a place for dust to collect?

 

 

(5th patriarch wiped off the above poem with his shoes, and told him to meet him again that night)

 

Non Dual Realization

 

(That night:)

 

Knowing what his message meant, in the third watch of the night I went to his room. Using the robe as a screen so that none could see us, he expounded the Diamond Sutra to me. When he came to the sentence, "One should use one's mind in such a way that it will be free from any attachment,"[1] I at once became thoroughly enlightened, and realized that all things in the universe are the Essence of Mind itself.

[TzuJanLi]

In passing, I blew the dust off the tiny Buddha statue

It swirled, like the thoughtful impermanence of thoughts

The statue, still and silent, seemed shinier, the dust

Searching for another resting place, along with the thought

That I should blow the dust away, found no rest.

As time shuffled busily beneath that which would be

Resting attachments to lifeless statues, colors changed

As day discarded its brilliance onto the muted neutrality

Of dust and thoughts, quietly conspiring another day.

 

Be well..

[Marblehead]

This is what anatta and the middle way really means. It is stripping your mind from all unnecessary assertions when we experience things.

 

Can we say there is a God? No. Strip that away.

 

Can we say there is a self? No. So x that out too. Can we say there is "No" self? Not really...

 

Can we say there is the past? Can you find it? Not really. Can we even ascertain anything? It's like Chuang Tzu's butterfly dream.

 

Nothing is findable because everything is simply happening as it is. From this, to that, simply arising and disappearing on its own.

 

Nice post Lucky,

 

If we were discussing all the concepts you presented I would probably have a couple "however"s but that's not important here.

[Marblehead]

In passing, I blew the dust off the tiny Buddha statue

It swirled, like the thoughtful impermanence of thoughts

The statue, still and silent, seemed shinier, the dust

Searching for another resting place, along with the thought

That I should blow the dust away, found no rest.

As time shuffled busily beneath that which would be

Resting attachments to lifeless statues, colors changed

As day discarded its brilliance onto the muted neutrality

Of dust and thoughts, quietly conspiring another day.

 

Be well..

 

Look at you!!!!!

 

Nice. Thanks for sharing.

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[TzuJanLi]

Look at you!!!!!

 

Nice. Thanks for sharing.

Hi Marblehead, thanks for noticing..

 

Be well..

[Otis]

This is what anatta and the middle way really means. It is stripping your mind from all unnecessary assertions when we experience things.

 

Can we say there is a God? No. Strip that away.

 

Can we say there is a self? No. So x that out too. Can we say there is "No" self? Not really...

 

Can we say there is the past? Can you find it? Not really. Can we even ascertain anything? It's like Chuang Tzu's butterfly dream.

 

Nothing is findable because everything is simply happening as it is. From this, to that, simply arising and disappearing on its own.

Good post.

 

I would like to add that it is important not to take any one sign too seriously. For example: we cannot say there is a God, but neither can we say that there is not a God.

 

Let us be careful not to fudge on the arguments that we don't want to support, because they're legitimate, even if we don't like them.

 

So what is the answer that we can derive about God? There is only one reasonable answer, and that is: "I don't know".

 

That's probably a conclusion we should come to more often. It is not a sign of ignorance to admit that we don't know; it is a sign of grace.

[xabir2005]

Good post.

 

I would like to add that it is important not to take any one sign too seriously. For example: we cannot say there is a God, but neither can we say that there is not a God.

 

Let us be careful not to fudge on the arguments that we don't want to support, because they're legitimate, even if we don't like them.

 

So what is the answer that we can derive about God? There is only one reasonable answer, and that is: "I don't know".

 

That's probably a conclusion we should come to more often. It is not a sign of ignorance to admit that we don't know; it is a sign of grace.

Once you realize the nature of reality, you'll have direct insight into how a God is impossible.

 

You'll realize this:

 

"Mere suffering is, not any sufferer is found

The deeds exist, but no performer of the deeds:

Nibbana is, but not the man that enters it,

The path is, but no wanderer is to be seen."

 

"Everywhere, in all the realms of existence, the noble disciple

sees only mental and corporeal phenomena kept going through the

concatenation of causes and effects. No producer of the

volitional act or kamma does he see apart from the kamma, no

recipient of the kamma-result apart from the result. And he is

well aware that wise men are using merely conventional language,

when, with regard to a kammical act, they speak of a doer, or

with regard to a kamma-result, they speak of the recipient of the

result.

 

No doer of the deeds is found,

No one who ever reaps their fruits;

Empty phenomena roll on:

This only is the correct view.

 

And while the deeds and their results

Roll on and on, conditioned all,

There is no first beginning found,

Just as it is with seed and tree. ...

 

No god, no Brahma, can be called

The maker of this wheel of life:

Empty phenomena roll on,

Dependent on conditions all."

 

~ Visudhimagga