Fukushima Reactor Meltdown

[ralis]

As far as I can tell, this report is accurate and confirms my fears of this event happening. If this is the case, I believe there is no way to stop it. This is deadly serious for the ecology of this planet.

 

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4849203

[hagar]

As far as I can tell, this report is accurate and confirms my fears of this event happening. If this is the case, I believe there is no way to stop it. This is deadly serious for the ecology of this planet.

 

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4849203

 

I refer to my earlier post on this and concur. We will deal with the aftermath of this for hundreds of years.

 

h

[zerostao]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haMePBnkJhY

[thelerner]

As far as I can tell, this report is accurate and confirms my fears of this event happening. If this is the case, I believe there is no way to stop it. This is deadly serious for the ecology of this planet.

 

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4849203

Its a bad situation, but deadly serious for the ecology of the planet. I don't think so. The leak is bad but the situation is much much much better then a month, or 2 weeks ago. People are in the buildings, power has been restored, coolant is entering etc. There are going to be set backs but all in all progress is being made.

 

The glass is only half radioactive.

 

I've been reading about the Ladies of Chernobyl. Fascinating stuff, things bounce back much faster then people give them credit for; particularly when we're in the midst of the disaster. (Look at the dire global predictions of the Gulf Oil debacle) The Chernobyl area is seeing wild life that has been absent for 2 or 3 generations. It seems like the presence of man may be more of a disaster for an environment then a manmade disaster! If we leave an area alone, nature rejuvenates, usually quicker the predicted.

[Smile]

Its a bad situation, but deadly serious for the ecology of the planet. I don't think so. The leak is bad but the situation is much much much better then a month, or 2 weeks ago. People are in the buildings, power has been restored, coolant is entering etc. There are going to be set backs but all in all progress is being made.

 

The glass is only half radioactive.

 

I've been reading about the Ladies of Chernobyl. Fascinating stuff, things bounce back much faster then people give them credit for; particularly when we're in the midst of the disaster. (Look at the dire global predictions of the Gulf Oil debacle) The Chernobyl area is seeing wild life that has been absent for 2 or 3 generations. It seems like the presence of man may be more of a disaster for an environment then a manmade disaster! If we leave an area alone, nature rejuvenates, usually quicker the predicted.

Michael,

First, they had a real comprehensive study published on the effects of Chernobyl and concluded over 1 million people died because of the effects of the radiation. Half of the Europe is still contaminated from the fallout and people are advised against eating wild animals like wild pigs and moose.

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/health/chernobyl-cover-up-study-shows-more-than-a-million-deaths-from-radiation/

 

Now, the Fukushima disaster is a bit different because it's not 1 but 6 reactors are in big trouble, and when I'm saying trouble I'm talking about a complete out-of-control meltdown about to happen/happening/happened for all of them.

TEPCO already confirmed one full meltdown: http://gizmodo.com/5801376/its-official-fukushima-was-hit-with-a-full+blown-nuclear-meltdown

 

You think pouring salt water will solve the problem? They will be pouring it for HUNDREDS of years and the situation is not going to change. And there is NO OTHER alternative, this is the scariest part.

 

Also, a good article to read from naturalnews.com sighting real experts in the field and what they are thinking about it: http://www.naturalnews.com/032343_radioactivity_Fukushima.html

 

It's out of control and all they are doing is covering the truth, just like with Chernobyl.

[thelerner]

Michael,

First, they had a real comprehensive study published on the effects of Chernobyl and concluded over 1 million people died because of the effects of the radiation. Half of the Europe is still contaminated from the fallout and people are advised against eating wild animals like wild pigs and moose.

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2011/health/chernobyl-cover-up-study-shows-more-than-a-million-deaths-from-radiation/

 

Now, the Fukushima disaster is a bit different because it's not 1 but 6 reactors are in big trouble, and when I'm saying trouble I'm talking about a complete out-of-control meltdown about to happen/happening/happened for all of them.

TEPCO already confirmed one full meltdown: http://gizmodo.com/5801376/its-official-fukushima-was-hit-with-a-full+blown-nuclear-meltdown

 

You think pouring salt water will solve the problem? They will be pouring it for HUNDREDS of years and the situation is not going to change. And there is NO OTHER alternative, this is the scariest part.

 

It's out of control and all they are doing is covering the truth, just like with Chernobyl.

 

When you say half of Europe is contaminated by the fall out, are you sure? What does that mean? Is it a wasteland? I don't think so. It sounds wonderfully alarmist, but to what extent true?

 

I don't think they'll be pouring salt water in there for HUNDREDS of years, I think it'll be plugged in a few months. Let me be clear it was a major disaster, but smart people are working on it. The 9.0 Earthquake and Tsunami were disasters of near Biblical proportions, but the Japanese are smart, resilient and resourceful. They'll solve the problems. Japan isn't Russia in 1986.

 

There is an industry on scaring the wits off people. It makes for good press and fodder for conspiracy theorists. Lets take a Chernobyl, it was the worst nuclear accident to date, made more horrific by poor design, incompetency, secrecy of a magnitude far beyond Japanese situation. From a distance of 25 years we can see it as horrific, but not apocalyptic. Recovery happens, far faster then people at the time assume.

 

I've seen a dozens of predictions of apocalypse on this site. Its not that doom and gloomers are wrong, its that they underestimate human (& Natures) resourcefulness and resilience. They see a downward pattern and draw lines that end in oblivion. Things cycle and the often our worst fears don't come to pass. Still one keeps an eye out and should be ready to get out of disasters way.

 

I predict containment within a few weeks or months. What are your predictions for Fukishima?

Edited May 13, 2011 by thelerner

[宁]

When you say half of Europe is contaminated by the fall out, are you sure? What does that mean? Is it a wasteland? I don't think so. It sounds wonderfully alarmist, but to what extent true?

 

I don't think they'll be pouring salt water in there for HUNDREDS of years, I think it'll be plugged in a few months. Let me be clear it was a major disaster, but smart people are working on it. The 9.0 Earthquake and Tsunami were disasters of near Biblical proportions, but the Japanese are smart, resilient and resourceful. They'll solve the problems. Japan isn't Russia in 1986.

 

There is an industry on scaring the wits off people. It makes for good press and fodder for conspiracy theorists. Lets take a Chernobyl, it was the worst nuclear accident to date, made more horrific by poor design, incompetency, secrecy of a magnitude far beyond Japanese situation. From a distance of 25 years we can see it as horrific, but not apocalyptic. Recovery happens, far faster then people at the time assume.

 

I've seen a dozens of predictions of apocalypse on this site. Its not that doom and gloomers are wrong, its that they underestimate human (& Natures) resourcefulness and resilience. They see a downward pattern and draw lines that end in oblivion. Things cycle and the often our worst fears don't come to pass. Still one keeps an eye out and should be ready to get out of disasters way.

 

I predict containment within a few weeks or months. What are your predictions for Fukishima?

 

The truth is somewhere in the middle, no doubt.

+ i've heard about (qigong?) masters survive hiroshima, just dusted off their clothes and left untouched - could it be true, or are these just urban legends?

[Aetherous]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080713082534AARTbMt

[ralis]

Its a bad situation, but deadly serious for the ecology of the planet. I don't think so. The leak is bad but the situation is much much much better then a month, or 2 weeks ago. People are in the buildings, power has been restored, coolant is entering etc. There are going to be set backs but all in all progress is being made.

 

The glass is only half radioactive.

 

I've been reading about the Ladies of Chernobyl. Fascinating stuff, things bounce back much faster then people give them credit for; particularly when we're in the midst of the disaster. (Look at the dire global predictions of the Gulf Oil debacle) The Chernobyl area is seeing wild life that has been absent for 2 or 3 generations. It seems like the presence of man may be more of a disaster for an environment then a manmade disaster! If we leave an area alone, nature rejuvenates, usually quicker the predicted.

 

 

The Gulf of Mexico oil disaster has destroyed many lives and an entire ecosystem. Further, Chernobyl is still claiming victims. Watch this video of the children of Chernobyl that have been deformed, if you can. The scenario you portray is naive!

 

When I post something of significance, I produce facts.

 

 

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2010/3/7/children-of-chernobyl-warning-graphic-images-1770395

 

http://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/chernobyl-birth-defects/

Edited May 14, 2011 by ralis

[Cat Pillar]

The truth is somewhere in the middle, no doubt.

+ i've heard about (qigong?) masters survive hiroshima, just dusted off their clothes and left untouched - could it be true, or are these just urban legends?

 

I dunno if he was a master or not, but this Japanese badass survived BOTH nuclear attacks:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/25/hiroshima-nagasaki-survivor-japan

 

I can't even begin to imagine what that was like. Well...I can, but it's not pleasant.

[Wells]

BIG QUESTION:

Why don't Taoist Masters do anything against shit like that?

 

Our planet will be destroyed because of such desasters!

Edited May 14, 2011 by Dorian Black

[ralis]

Dr. Michio Kaku discussing the facts around this disaster. He also talks about the 25 mile dead zone around Chernobyl.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vBb3kN7zg8&feature=player_embedded

[zerostao]

Dr. Michio Kaku discussing the facts around this disaster. He also talks about the 25 mile dead zone around Chernobyl.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vBb3kN7zg8&feature=player_embedded

i always like to listen to dr. michio. this is a very sobering/ accurate message he presents us.

[Smile]

Micheal, I hope you are right, but based on just the info that are coming from Japanese authorities, it is not a very good prognosis. We will come back to this topic in 6 months when they start getting abnormal babies in Japan, HI, CA and other states.

[Nanashi]

仕方がない (shikata ga nai -- It cannot be helped.)

[thelerner]

Dr. Michio Kaku discussing the facts around this disaster. He also talks about the 25 mile dead zone around Chernobyl.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vBb3kN7zg8&feature=player_embedded

 

Thats the amazing thing. Its not so dead. Life has creeped back, big time. Just Google Life around Chernobyl, you'll find articles like this:

 

PORTSMOUTH, England, April 26 (UPI) -- Lake wildlife near the Chernobyl nuclear disaster site is thriving, with effects of radiation apparently offset by the absence of humans, U.K. researchers say.

 

Researchers from the University of Portsmouth in the United Kingdom studied eight lakes contaminated by the 1986 Ukraine nuclear disaster, measuring the abundance and diversity of the invertebrates living there, NewScientist.com reported Tuesday.

 

Some lakes had almost no measurable levels of radiation, while others had levels 300 times higher than normal, but neither the populations of animals found in the lakes nor their overall diversity were affected by the levels, the researchers said.

 

In fact, the most contaminated lake, Glubokoye, had the most diverse ecosystem.

 

"It's thriving," Portsmouth's Jim Smith said.

 

However, the radiation in the area is still well above safe levels for humans, Smith said, so long-term exposure from the world's worst nuclear power plant disaster could mean an increase in chances of someone developing cancer.

 

"You still wouldn't want to live there," he said.

 

Smith says the evacuation of all humans from the area after the disaster has been a boon to the local wildlife, with endangered species such as European bison and wild Przewalski's horses making a comeback.

 

"It demonstrates the impact humans have on ecosystems," Smith said.

 

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2011/04/26/Lake-life-around-Chernobyl-said-thriving/UPI-22421303865307/#ixzz1MfbwV5vf

 

 

There was a fascinating article in More magazine on a group of old woman who are living close to the plant, against many regulations. So far they're doing fine.

 

The area suffered hugely, but life is bouncing back. Seems like Humanity's presence is more a hindrance to nature then even a melt down. Its only been one generation. In 50 years it might be a paradise. Keep people out for 50 years and it might be an amazing preserve. I was reading about a visitor going to Hiroshima, apparently its very beautiful there.

 

I don't think we'll see a rise in birth defects in the states due to the accident. In Japan, probably; some things are unavoidable, but again they're smart..precautions will be taken to minimize them.

[ralis]

Thats the amazing thing. Its not so dead. Life has creeped back, big time. Just Google Life around Chernobyl, you'll find articles like this:

 

PORTSMOUTH, England, April 26 (UPI) -- Lake wildlife near the Chernobyl nuclear disaster site is thriving, with effects of radiation apparently offset by the absence of humans, U.K. researchers say.

 

Researchers from the University of Portsmouth in the United Kingdom studied eight lakes contaminated by the 1986 Ukraine nuclear disaster, measuring the abundance and diversity of the invertebrates living there, NewScientist.com reported Tuesday.

 

Some lakes had almost no measurable levels of radiation, while others had levels 300 times higher than normal, but neither the populations of animals found in the lakes nor their overall diversity were affected by the levels, the researchers said.

 

In fact, the most contaminated lake, Glubokoye, had the most diverse ecosystem.

 

"It's thriving," Portsmouth's Jim Smith said.

 

However, the radiation in the area is still well above safe levels for humans, Smith said, so long-term exposure from the world's worst nuclear power plant disaster could mean an increase in chances of someone developing cancer.

 

"You still wouldn't want to live there," he said.

 

Smith says the evacuation of all humans from the area after the disaster has been a boon to the local wildlife, with endangered species such as European bison and wild Przewalski's horses making a comeback.

 

"It demonstrates the impact humans have on ecosystems," Smith said.

 

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2011/04/26/Lake-life-around-Chernobyl-said-thriving/UPI-22421303865307/#ixzz1MfbwV5vf

 

 

There was a fascinating article in More magazine on a group of old woman who are living close to the plant, against many regulations. So far they're doing fine.

 

The area suffered hugely, but life is bouncing back. Seems like Humanity's presence is more a hindrance to nature then even a melt down. Its only been one generation. In 50 years it might be a paradise. Keep people out for 50 years and it might be an amazing preserve. I was reading about a visitor going to Hiroshima, apparently its very beautiful there.

 

I don't think we'll see a rise in birth defects in the states due to the accident. In Japan, probably; some things are unavoidable, but again they're smart..precautions will be taken to minimize them.

 

 

Dr. Kaku talks about the dead zone around Chernobyl as being significant. Also I posted the birth defects from the Chernobyl area which are horrific.

[zerostao]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Cover-up-update-on-Japan/115706891851278

 

my thoughts still go out to the folks of japan.

Edited June 9, 2011 by zerostao

[Thunder_Gooch]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8565020/Nuclear-fuel-has-melted-through-base-of-Fukushima-plant.html

 

The nuclear fuel in three of the reactors at the Fukushima has melted through the base of the pressure vessels and is pooling in the outer containment vessels, a "melt-through" "far worse than a core meltdown" and "the worst possibility in a nuclear accident".

[Owledge]

I'm usually bored by 'news', because they're not really feeling new. Thus, I heard about The Fuckupshima relatively late, and only a little. Someone expressed to me how big of a catastrophe this is, a super-meltdown, but I replied that there are much more people dying and suffering every day that don't have the publicity-bonus of a western-friendly country. That kind of catastrophy is rarely called that name, and thus another Chernobyl-style event couldn't really stir my emotions. It is not a tragedy. It is just logical consequence.

For a moment I had a funny, not-too-serious thought that now I might have a radioactive spare part in my Toyota.

The worldwide effect isn't surprising novelty either: Some time later I stumbled upon an article about a radiation monitoring station near a nuclear facility in England. At one point they began to see spikes in the radiation levels. Guess what: they were particles of depleted uranium from the Iraq war.

 

@Little1

Here's another funny anecdote, but I'm not sure whether I get all facts right. Hiroshima's or Nagasaki's railway or tram system was to be modernized by Siemens, but they messed it up - faulty, causing trouble all the time. So eventually, the Japanese recommissioned their old vehicles that survived the bomb instead.

 

 

As a spiritual sidenote, I wonder how much the united emotional fear energy of people might manifest in reality; whether all that hatred of people almost wishing another nuclear meltdown to happen in order to have a new precedent might make it happen. I mean... there are those mass-meditation events that make crime rates drop while they are happening, so why shouldn't it work the other way, too.

I have this theory that the same mechanism is at work regarding superstition.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Hardyg

[Thunder_Gooch]

Light water reactors (LWR) like what was used at fukushima aren't the only type of reactor. Canadians use heavy water reactors which can burn slightly more fuel but not much.

 

 

Alvin Weinberg, the guy who invented the LWR spent the rest of his years trying to convince everyone to switch to a Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor, (LFTR) it is a type of molten salt reactor. Eventually he stepped on too many toes as those in power fought to maintain the status quo, he was fired from his job at Oakridge National Laboratory, because he wouldn't stop voicing his opposition to LWR in favor LFTR.

 

 

Not only was it impossible for it to melt down like Fukushima and Chernobyl, we have enough thorium to last us thousands of years even with projected increases in electrical consumption and that assumes we all drive electric or fuel cell vehicles.

 

We built some prototype LFTR's in the 50's and 60's and know the technology is sound.

 

We have thousands of years worth of thorium just here in the usa.

 

In an existing LWR reactor only a fraction of a percent of the uranium fuel can be burned up, in a LFTR almost 98% of the thorium fuel can be burned. Not only that but when the uranium is refined to be used as fuel only a fraction of a percent of the total uranium mined can be used the rest is discarded, in contrast all the thorium mined can be used.

 

It produces less than 1% of the waste of an existing LWR, and it's waste is actually useful to nasa for space probes, and for medicine, what can't be used for good purposes is only radioactive for 300 years vs 10,000.

 

A LFTR can actually be used to recycle all the waste from existing uranium enrichment using it as fuel, and the waste that comes out of the LWRs we are using today.

 

LFTR's cannot melt down if the reactor overheats for any reason, a plug made of frozen salt melts and drains into a tank which is passively cooled.

 

LFTR promises almost all of the benefits of fusion power, except we know how to make a functional LFTR, and could do so easily.

 

 

The only thing LFTR is bad at is it cannot be used to make weapons grade material. That is why we went with existing LWRs instead.

 

It's kind of sad really. We have a solution to safely fix our energy problems but refuse to use it out of greed.

 

I'm usually bored by 'news', because they're not really feeling new. Thus, I heard about The Fuckupshima relatively late, and only a little. Someone expressed to me how big of a catastrophe this is, a super-meltdown, but I replied that there are much more people dying and suffering every day that don't have the publicity-bonus of a western-friendly country. That kind of catastrophy is rarely called that name, and thus another Chernobyl-style event couldn't really stir my emotions. It is not a tragedy. It is just logical consequence.

For a moment I had a funny, not-too-serious thought that now I might have a radioactive spare part in my Toyota.

The worldwide effect isn't surprising novelty either: Some time later I stumbled upon an article about a radiation monitoring station near a nuclear facility in England. At one point they began to see spikes in the radiation levels. Guess what: they were particles of depleted uranium from the Iraq war.

 

@Little1

Here's another funny anecdote, but I'm not sure whether I get all facts right. Hiroshima's or Nagasaki's railway or tram system was to be modernized by Siemens, but they messed it up - faulty, causing trouble all the time. So eventually, the Japanese recommissioned their old vehicles that survived the bomb instead.

Edited June 9, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy

[Owledge]

Yes, there's no resource or technology crisis whatsoever, only a tyranny and greed crisis.

If that were not the case, we wouldn't even have to bother dealing with LFTRs. We wouldn't bother with nuclear fusion. We would use cold fusion. Zero-point technology. Stuff like that. Even running cars with water is not the most advanced technology. You can run a car engine with some kind of invisible life energy. That reaction chamber's efficiency is actually influenced by how nice your emotions towards it are. And as a fascinating side-effect, it causes matter-transmutation and -replication.

 

Here's an example of the madness of the world that I often think about:

 

Air conditioning all over the USA. Power plants generate electricity and produce heat in the process. That electricity is used to run an air conditioning that produces cool air and, again, and as the most ridiculous byproduct imaginable for a cooler, hot air. And if you used a hairdryer in that environment, the air-dryer would produce heat not only from its outlet, but also in the AC unit.

Instead, you could run all air conditioning with negentropic devices. Each AC unit would have its own power source and the only thing coming into our physical world would be cool air.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Hardyg

[Cat Pillar]

Yes, there's no resource or technology crisis whatsoever, only a tyranny and greed crisis.

If that were not the case, we wouldn't even have to bother dealing with LFTRs. We wouldn't bother with nuclear fusion. We would use cold fusion. Zero-point technology. Stuff like that. Even running cars with water is not the most advanced technology. You can run a car engine with some kind of invisible life energy. That reaction chamber's efficiency is actually influenced by how nice your emotions towards it are. And as a fascinating side-effect, it causes matter-transmutation and -replication.

 

Here's an example of the madness of the world that I often think about:

 

Air conditioning all over the USA. Power plants generate electricity and produce heat in the process. That electricity is used to run an air conditioning that produces cool air and, again, and as the most ridiculous byproduct imaginable for a cooler, hot air. And if you used a hairdryer in that environment, the air-dryer would produce heat not only from its outlet, but also in the AC unit.

Instead, you could run all air conditioning with negentropic devices. Each AC unit would have its own power source and the only thing coming into our physical world would be cool air.

 

Negentropic devices? Life-energy reactor chambers that work poorly in the presence of assholes and have a side effect of transmuting matter?

 

I...I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Sauce?

[Owledge]

@Cat Pillar

You can read up thoroughly on the "Joe Cell" and other topics if you're interested in that stuff. A lot of vague info around, but also some more detailed stuff that I can't find right now.

http://pesn.com/2006/04/27/9600265_Make_Run_Joe_Cell/

http://pesn.com/2006/04/14/9600259_Modified_Joe_Cell/

http://pesn.com/2006/11/01/9500429_Proton_Cell/

 

There was also a Stan Meyer who ran a dune buggy on water. He used a special frequency-altered electrolysis that incorporates zero-point energy or something like that in order to create huge amounts of hydrogen and oxygen with very little electricity. (He vanished/died under unclear circumstances.)

And probably the most prominent owner of a water car is Daniel Dingel in the Philippines. He didn't find a credible supporter for marketing the tech, is sabotaged by powerful interests (like WTO), and said that if he revealed the know-how behind the tech, people would laugh about how obvious and simple it is.

(Usually the 'men in black' only pay you a visit if you start efforts to go into the market with that kind of technology. There are inventor meetings across the USA where they present their cars and other kinds of machines.)

 

A name very known in the area of permanent magnet generators (Bedini Monopole et. al.) that tap the magnetic flux: Tom Bearden. In a nutshell, he says that the current electrical motor technology is intentionally crippled by design, that it uses half of the energy generated in order to continually destroy and rebuild the dipole.

 

Also interesting: The Hutchison Effect. Creating antigravity through electricity and frequency.

 

All kinds of crazy sciences have been around for quite some time while the babies in mainstream science are still fascinated and befuddled by their theoretical quantum physics playground. (It seems to be a socio-psychological thing to enthusiastically focus on the question and not really wanting the answer which would spoil all the fun(ding).)

 

Those technologies are like a synthesis of eastern spiritual arts and modern technology. They don't make the heeeecchhhuuuuuge mistake of completely denying the existence of Yin in all processes in the universe. They only know their high-to-low order energy conversions (while the opposite is right in front of them all the time and everywhere) and the universe eventually dying of overheating. (=entropy)

How does solid plant matter grow, incorporating heat and electromagnetic radiation? Mainstream science is like the science of death and destruction. Which is really no wonder considering the heritage of male-dominance.

 

Viktor Schauberger might also be worth reading up on. He pointed out that there is a trout that stands at a fixed position in a flowing stream of water while barely moving at all. Also, he showed a logging company that they can convey more tree trunks down the hills if they change the linear waterbed into serpentines. They called him crazy, but it worked.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Hardyg

[Cat Pillar]

Huh, neat! Thanks for all the information, Hardyg. I'll have to look more into all of that, very fascinating.