Organic Farming: The revolution of the future.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Important and fascinating French (English st) documentary about organic, sustainable, farming and how we are doomed without it.

 

"Think Global Act Local"

 

 

 

edit: ah, so that link is not the full movie nor in English. However, the movie (available on netflicks) is crucially important.

 

In sum, it talks about:

 

how organic sustainable farming is easier, cheaper, usually more productive, as well as healthier for the farmer, the land and the consumer;

 

how soil does not need to be tilled with the right crops growing on it to constantly shade and fertilize it, with the shade also conserving water;

 

how GMO crops have resulted in certain fruit and vegetable species being made illegal to grow with many already extinct as a result. This ensures that only the GMO seeds for their few apples, pears, etc. can be grown, and the threat this is to nature, humanity and the worlds economy.

 

how chemical fertilizers were created to sell off overstocks of chemical weapons after WWI and II, how they kill all the life in the soil which is needed for proper, crubmly, growing soil, and create requirements for GMO crops that are not killed by these fertilizers;

 

This issue seems to be the single greatest threat to humanity and peace in the world at large, and will cause either a revolution or massive destruction of humanities ability to sustain itself worldwide.

 

Without going into detail -- the problems of the world are not without fairly simple solutions, it's just that those with power are not altruistic, and will let everything around them get destroyed before they relinquish power.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[ralis]

Important and fascinating French (English st) documentary about organic, sustainable, farming and how we are doomed without it.

 

"Think Global Act Local"

 

 

 

edit: ah, so that link is not the full movie nor in English. However, the movie (available on netflicks) is crucially important.

 

In sum, it talks about:

 

how organic sustainable farming is easier, cheaper, usually more productive, as well as healthier for the farmer, the land and the consumer;

 

how soil does not need to be tilled with the right crops growing on it to constantly shade and fertilize it, with the shade also conserving water;

 

how GMO crops have resulted in certain fruit and vegetable species being made illegal to grow with many already extinct as a result. This ensures that only the GMO seeds for their few apples, pears, etc. can be grown, and the threat this is to nature, humanity and the worlds economy.

 

how chemical fertilizers were created to sell off overstocks of chemical weapons after WWI and II, how they kill all the life in the soil which is needed for proper, crubmly, growing soil, and create requirements for GMO crops that are not killed by these fertilizers;

 

This issue seems to be the single greatest threat to humanity and peace in the world at large, and will cause either a revolution or massive destruction of humanities ability to sustain itself worldwide.

 

Without going into detail -- the problems of the world are not without fairly simple solutions, it's just that those with power are not altruistic, and will let everything around them get destroyed before they relinquish power.

 

There is still debate on this very important topic. It would require some research to find unbiased studies that are not paid for by organic or conventional groups. Further, chemical fertilizers were developed long before WWII. Read this historical time line. http://www.agclassroom.org/gan/timeline/farm_tech.htm

 

There are pro's and con's of organic and conventional farming. The problems of feeding over 7B people on this planet are increasing. Further, without fossil fuels, I have heard estimates of only about 500M could survive. With the decline of fossil fuel reserves and rampant Wall St. speculation on commodities, many people will not be able to afford basic staples.

 

The Haber process first developed N fertilizer in the early 1900's

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process

Edited May 15, 2011 by ralis

[deci belle]

[Encephalon]

 

Without going into detail -- the problems of the world are not without fairly simple solutions, it's just that those with power are not altruistic, and will let everything around them get destroyed before they relinquish power.

 

I'd have to respectfully disagree with this minor point; I believe we most definitely are without fairly simple solutions. Even if we were to find a plausible political solution to the problems of inequitable distribution of resources, the simple fact is that the petroleum era, well into it's fourth and final quarter of a 200-year old drama, has made it possible to grow enough food to feed 7+ billion people. Best case scenarios for a post-oil future - with containment of desertification and topsoil loss, access to water, and successful management of climate change - are in the range of 2 billion people fed, almost one quarter of what we feed now. I don't think there's any question that world leaders are planning on a massive Darwinian culling of the human herd as the 21st century unfolds.

 

I hope I'm wrong and a viable alternative to petroleum is found but it's pretty clear how global elites are playing their hand. Sorry for being so bloddy dark!

[Enishi]

Even if a replacement for petroleum is found, it would take decades to convert our entire infrastructure over. In addition, a growing population strains other resources besides just that of fossil fuels. I agree that a great reduction in population is pretty much inevitable.

 

For many of us in western countries, having kids is already too expensive. (Sets aside money for a future vasectomy).

Edited May 16, 2011 by Enishi

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I'd have to respectfully disagree with this minor point; I believe we most definitely are without fairly simple solutions. Even if we were to find a plausible political solution to the problems of inequitable distribution of resources, the simple fact is that the petroleum era, well into it's fourth and final quarter of a 200-year old drama, has made it possible to grow enough food to feed 7+ billion people. Best case scenarios for a post-oil future - with containment of desertification and topsoil loss, access to water, and successful management of climate change - are in the range of 2 billion people fed, almost one quarter of what we feed now. I don't think there's any question that world leaders are planning on a massive Darwinian culling of the human herd as the 21st century unfolds.

 

I hope I'm wrong and a viable alternative to petroleum is found but it's pretty clear how global elites are playing their hand. Sorry for being so bloddy dark!

 

 

Without needing to plow (as shown possible in the movie by having specific soil covering plants (looked like grasses) who's roots keep the soil broken enough for life to live in it) the need for oil on a farm will be drastically reduced.

 

Plus, it has been estimated that one years crop of hemp oil produces enough ethanol and biofuel to run the farm's machines for about the life of the farmer. Hemp literally produces up to 10 times as much biofuel per acre than corn. That means having ten farms for every one that uses corn. It might take oil to make the biofuel at first, but once it's running you can do it with biofuel.

 

Then everyone can grow their own fuel - Petroleum Mafia's ain't gon like dat.

 

If the government sponsored hemp farming for this purpose instead of spending superflously on military, every house would be separated by a wall of hemp plants. It also reverses soil erosion and makes for good soil, so there would be more farmable land as a result and everyone could grown their own food as long as there was sufficient rain, since there would be usable farm land ev-er-ywhere.

 

So you have oil, and you have food everywhere you don't have concrete. There's not much else to do but come up with cool stuff to do with hemp fiber.

 

You could also give up eating meat with hemp based high protein replacements, so you save tons of grain and water.

 

The toxins put in the air when hemp biofuel is burned is taken back when it grows, and you can take the fibre with the CO2 in it and use it to strengthen concrete, giving it some flexibility against earth quakes. When trees are cut down they release lots of CO2, but not when harvesting hemp. The areas with trees waiting 20 years to grown could be converted to hemp plantations with 3 crops a year.

 

I'm not sure what would be left to solve after this, other than keeping the control freaks occupied with cricket

[deci belle]

successful management of climate change - are in the range of 2 billion people fed, almost one quarter of what we feed now. I don't think there's any question that world leaders are planning on a massive Darwinian culling of the human herd as the 21st century unfolds

 

hahahhahahhahahhaaa!! As if. It's going down, mon ami. Manage climate change? The so-called world leaders, are only doing what they can. You don't know them. It is time to steal as much as possible. It's just what time it is. This is an objective assessment of the situation. What is there to worry about? Whether one is culled or not, you care about your dependents.

 

Do what you can do, when you can do it. It does not matter why is it so— it is the time for acting.

 

I hope the point of the thread is the benefit of (sustainable) farming— not histrionics hinging on pop-culture doom and gloom. Talk to any farmers lately?

 

I recommend it highly! Otherwise, sit back and enjoy the show. Uh, the other one: the revolution is not being televised.

Edited May 16, 2011 by deci belle

[Encephalon]

[deci belle]

Thanks for that. It's always good to get patronized every now and then by a presumptuous ass who knows nothing about my background. I don't believe I was stoned in grad school.

Are you talking about you or me …heehee!!

 

Can you eat your degree with that, hmmmmmmm?

Edited May 16, 2011 by deci belle

[zerostao]

http://www.cambridge.org/us/knowledge/isbn/item2713452/?site_locale=en_US

 

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=4431296&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0889189300000655

 

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayJournal?jid=AGS

 

education is always an asset.

 

edit> meanwhile myself and about everyone i know is doing some gardening this year. i am also collecting non hybrid seeds.

shennong 2.0 would be nice .

Edited May 16, 2011 by zerostao

[ralis]

Hemp fuel is always offered as a panacea that will solve all problems. The first thing to consider is the ability of any plant species to fix nitrogen and the amount of nutrients required for production. Hemp does not fix nitrogen, thus requiring a rotation of nitrogen fixing crops to replenish the soil. Environmental conditions (more specifically USDA climate zones) that are ideal for production and how climate change will effect production. What are the costs (all production costs including fuel) to produce 1 gal. of hemp fuel. I don't believe it is cost effective as of this date. Here is the link I found for converting hemp biomass to oil at 35.00/ gal. This is the only data I can find at the moment since most sites are nothing but hype with no reliable data. To replace fossil fuels that are still cheap as compared to other alternatives, will be difficult if not impossible.

 

http://fuelandfiber.com/Hemp4NRG/Hemp4NRGRV3.htm

 

The days of cheap fuel are probably over and what will be a transitional fuel as the world moves to a more permanent solution?

 

BTW, I am working on a different type of solar power that may provide a solution to this problem. The problem, it is not exactly safe and if I can calibrate the heat generated, we may have something.

Edited May 16, 2011 by ralis

[ralis]

Sterling Energy Systems in Scottsdale is making progress with their solar technology. However, the efficiency of their units range from 26%-31.25%.

 

http://www.stirlingenergy.com/

 

 

 

 

When this power is fed into the electrical transmission grid, a certain amount of loss is inevitable.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_transmission

Edited May 16, 2011 by ralis

[ralis]

 

 

Then everyone can grow their own fuel - Petroleum Mafia's ain't gon like dat.

 

 

 

How much land is required to be set aside to grow hemp for biomass? I would like to see some math on that. Small farmers may not have the space for it and therefor it may not be cost effective.

 

There is no panacea!

[deci belle]

Farming, gentlemen. No one is poo-pooing the educated. But knowing all the issues does not fill the belly. Evidently it can make one conceited and defensive. Who here has any experience farming? Anyone?

[ralis]

Farming, gentlemen. No one is poo-pooing the educated. But knowing all the issues does not fill the belly. Evidently it can make one conceited and defensive. Who here has any experience farming? Anyone?

 

I do! I also have a B.S. in Ornamental Horticulture from one of the top research institutions in the U.S. I am a very excellent researcher and will state facts as opposed to hype and emotional arguments!

 

I grew up in farm country (central Ohio). MY grandparents owned a farm and my best childhood friend's family owned a 500 acre farm which is now 1000 acres. Those farms were very close to organic and the cows were always grass fed. I bailed a lot of hay and I can still feel the chaff on my back.

 

The advent of no till farming destroyed a lot of good farmland.

Edited May 16, 2011 by ralis

[zerostao]

Farming, gentlemen. No one is poo-pooing the educated. But knowing all the issues does not fill the belly. Evidently it can make one conceited and defensive. Who here has any experience farming? Anyone?

i grew up on a farm. small one about 80 acres.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Hemp does not fix nitrogen, thus requiring a rotation of nitrogen fixing crops to replenish the soil. Environmental conditions (more specifically USDA climate zones) that are ideal for production and how climate change will effect production. What are the costs (all production costs including fuel) to produce 1 gal. of hemp fuel. I don't believe it is cost effective as of this date.

 

When this documentary is available on utube, you'll see that you can grown other low lying crops at the same time to take care of the soil. Plus, rotation of the crops would not be that difficult with proper governmental support, like employing the military to get the work done and off the ground (which would be doing a lot more to promote world peace than they are doing right now).

 

The production of hemp fuel would quickly become more efficient were it given the attention it deserves, and it is already not that difficult since the oil is easily extracted. The biggest cost issue right now is it's scarcity and red tape driving up the cost of the raw materials.

 

The other biggest issue is that, as shown here, even people sympathetic to the cause don't know these facts, and so it is dismissed on the basis of wrong or incomplete info.

 

The Global economy would also thrive having this resource potentially produced anywhere anything can be produced. But this again would be a problem for the people with power since right now people beg them for a job that pays 50 cents a day in some parts of the world where they would not need these companies for anything. The rich heads would topple and the economy would work on smaller businesses. This does not pose well for the people with influence in politics, ie., the most crooked of capitalists who maintain power over foreign resources and labour by maintaining scarcity and dependence.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[ralis]

When this documentary is available on utube, you'll see that you can grown other low lying crops at the same time to take care of the soil. Plus, rotation of the crops would not be that difficult with proper governmental support, like employing the military to get the work done and off the ground (which would be doing a lot more to promote world peace than they are doing right now).

 

The production of hemp fuel would quickly become more efficient were it given the attention it deserves, and it is already not that difficult since the oil is easily extracted. The biggest cost issue right now is it's scarcity and red tape driving up the cost of the raw materials.

 

The other biggest issue is that, as shown here, even people sympathetic to the cause don't know these facts, and so it is dismissed on the basis of wrong or incomplete info.

 

The Global economy would also thrive having this resource potentially produced anywhere anything can be produced. But this again would be a problem for the people with power since right now people beg them for a job that pays 50 cents a day in some parts of the world where they would not need these companies for anything. The rich heads would topple and the economy would work on smaller businesses. This does not pose well for the people with influence in politics, ie., the most crooked of capitalists who maintain power over foreign resources and labour by maintaining scarcity and dependence.

 

 

Exactly what does the military have to do with this and give me a breakdown of hemp biomass production costs. If you are unable to calculate costs, then why are you promoting hemp?

Edited May 16, 2011 by ralis

[deci belle]

And we all have degrees too?

 

Does it take a degree to grow beans and corn and chilis and apples and cows and sorgum and wheat?

 

I didn't think so.❤

Edited May 16, 2011 by deci belle

[ralis]

And we all have degrees too?

 

Does it take a degree to grow beans and corn and chilis and apples and cows and sorgum and wheat?

 

I didn't think so.❤

 

What is the problem with having an education?

[deci belle]

Nothing is at all wrong with an education— I hope! Why is that a sticking point?

 

But when this scenario does go down, agribusiness along with academia, in and of themselves, are not necessarily going to save anything— not along with the global infrastructure to support their spheres of influence (issues in terms of distribution are already apparent). Smart choices and projections by knowledgeable people like you who actually have experience in the field is critical. I was only suggesting that this is what is crucial— not pop-culture histrionics. I didn't know Blasto would even have a reason to take it personally.

 

I have nothing for or against your strategic agribusiness models. My model is something to put in my mouth.

 

Go for it! If you know what you want to do, and can influence those that will make your markets sustainable— that's great!

Edited May 16, 2011 by deci belle

[ralis]

Nothing is wrong at all with an education! But agribusiness along with academia, in and of themselves, are not necessarily going to save anything— not along with the infrastructure to support their spheres of influence. Smart choices and projections by knowledgeable people like you in the field is critical. I was only suggesting that this is what is crucial— not pop-culture histrionics. I didn't know Blasto would take it personally.

 

I have nothing for or against your strategic agribusiness models.

 

Go for it! If you know what you want to do, and can influence those that will make your markets sustainable— that's great!

 

I am not pro agribusiness. I am just pointing out areas that need careful thought processes and the ensuing problems that the inhabitants of this planet are facing. It is of vital importance to comprehend costs when considering an alternative energy source. Hemp has much potential. However, by itself will never save the world. A monocultural model will never be sustainable.

 

I would be the first to say that decentralization is a great idea. However, in today's complex economic system, decentralization is unfeasible. Due to the fact of increased scaling that is already in place as well as large population centers that would not have supply needs met with a decentralized model. Maybe Blasto can comment on that one. I am not certain I have stated that well.

Edited May 16, 2011 by ralis

[Encephalon]

And we all have degrees too?

 

Does it take a degree to grow beans and corn and chilis and apples and cows and sorgum and wheat?

 

I didn't think so.❤

 

It may not take a degree but ag skills and animal husbandry are no less technical than plenty of useless subject matter foisted upon students in college, and quite probably more technical and certainly important.

 

The subject matter I cared most about in college geography and human ecology had to do with sustainability and permaculture on the scale of ecovillages. Yeah, it's a worthy subject in this era of social contraction, and yeah, I grew up in a family that produced organic gardens. I chose to underplay the issue of climate change so as not to repeatedly rear the ugly and heated argument of climate change with the deniers who haunt this board.

[deci belle]

I know what you mean, Blasto!

[zerostao]

if we do not prioritize time, effort, energy, resources, income, ideas, and education to acquire a higher quality of life, our future isnt looking too good.