The answer lies in the India/Nepal/Tibet Himalaya Regions afterall.. and definitely NOT in china/taiwan..

[ralis]

At one time I was involved in Tibetan Buddhism. My reason for leaving was due to the fact that the Lamaist hierarchy convinced the true believers that doing prostrations in front of their throne was necessary. Their karma was better than the peons sitting on the floor in front of them. These guys received special benefits only because their system was created to benefit them.

[Wells]

At one time I was involved in Tibetan Buddhism. My reason for leaving was due to the fact that the Lamaist hierarchy convinced the true believers that doing prostrations in front of their throne was necessary. Their karma was better than the peons sitting on the floor in front of them. These guys received special benefits only because their system was created to benefit them.

Well, that doesn't mean that their energetic practices like tummo don't work. But establishing a hierarchy of cause of "karma" is always B.S.!

[ralis]

Well, that doesn't mean that their energetic practices like tummo don't work. But establishing a hierarchy of cause of "karma" is always B.S.!

 

They do teach some good stuff. Cutting through the meaningless BS wastes much time!

[Wells]

They do teach some good stuff. Cutting through the meaningless BS wastes much time!

I know!

 

No evidence from the karma-guys so far......

We are waiting!

 

 

Edit: I guess they are afraid of our debunking!

Edited May 18, 2011 by Dorian Black

[Apech]

Do you understand karma? Why not enlighten us.

 

Not fully. But the caste system is of course a human invention for social control. To say that it is not this but exists because of karma is to suggest that it exists because of some kind a natural law - which is not so.

 

Karma means action and from this there is a chain of causality which simply says that everything that arises is dependent on causes. It has nothing to do with good or bad which are relative and to a certain extent subjective values placed on actions. However I would accept that in terms of karma and asking 'what should I do?' the answer is 'do good' - in the sense of 'that which benefits yourself and others' is a pretty good rule of thumb for life (IMO).

[goldisheavy]

They do teach some good stuff. Cutting through the meaningless BS wastes much time!

 

I agree. Every tradition has something worth learning. Some traditions have more and some less. But at the same time, I don't know any tradition that's completely bereft of emotional cultural baggage, delusion and outright exploitation. I think it's the task of any responsible person to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

As far as the idea of karma goes, I believe that intentions have results, but... and this is a huge, huge but, it's nothing like what people commonly imagine. Above all, it's not really a justice system, or at least, not by itself (we can strive to implement justice). Also, there is nothing fair about it. The law of intentionality and results supports exploiters with equal dispassion as it supports all the righteous saints. It doesn't discriminate. It's like a match. That matches don't care who strike them. They burn for everyone. The generous people can strike a match and so can the exploiters. Water slakes everyone's thirst equally. There is no discrimination whatsoever.

 

At the same time, the way we think and behave creates a kind of taste in our mind, and this taste has a tendency to carry forward and to color everything. But it's not necessarily something punishing. For example, a violent person can have a violent inner taste but that doesn't necessarily mean "punishment." It could mean a realm that's unstable, full of power struggles and so on. It could actually be rewarding if the person enjoys that sort of thing, rather than be experienced as something punishing. At the same time a peaceful person will have a peaceful taste, but if you don't enjoy peace, it can be felt as a crushing punishment.

 

Birds find water to be hell, but not so fish. Fish find air to be hell, but they love water. Is water hell? Is air? Intentionality and its results is a lot like this. It's relative. It's not necessarily fair. And it's not necessarily just. But it does exist in some form and it does operate to some extent.

 

That's how I see it.

[wingzero]

And for those of you who claim that meditating for such a long time without food or water gives you nothing which can help you in life..

 

let me tell you a fact about spirituality..

 

only masters who have achieved much spiritual progress can go without food and water for long periods of time.. and i have not yet seen one single chinese master who achieve such similar feats..

 

hell, chinese masters can't even go without sex for long periods of time.. let alone food or water..

 

taoist practitioners are too driven by the baser animal impulses of life in order to achieve too much progress in spirituality!

 

just look at the number of sex-driven posts in this forum!

 

There is nothing wrong with spiritual sex in the unity of love of yang and yin. Buddhist are loners or are they not.

[Vajrahridaya]

I personally feel that it is an individual that leads them-self to liberation, but how they do it, and to what degree of speed depends upon the external conditions prevalent around that person, or what that person happens to find them-self around through their own efforts?

 

It's definitely easier in certain places and times to attain Buddhahood, simply due to influence. I mean, if you want to be a Buddha, you're going to want to be influenced by Buddhas. But, at the same time, not all traditions are even interested in Buddhahood. Some just want some sort of enlightenment as defined differently by different traditions, or elongation of their time in the body is considered an enlightened venture, or they want personal power and this is considered enlightening, etc.

 

So, one has to ask oneself what they themselves really wants, and why before choosing the particular path they trod upon to that end.

 

Ultimately the answers are within yourself, but again, it's true that certain environments are better for inner cultivation than others. This can change dependent upon a persons level of progression as well. Some may only need a monastery for a short period of time before it becomes a hindrance. Some need it their entire life and it's not a hindrance. Others need to be in the Urban life in order to integrate what they've learned in a monastery with regular people. Some monks need to drop their robes and get naked with a chick in order to go deeper within themselves or vice versa...

 

My 2 cents.

[ralis]

I personally feel that it is an individual that leads them-self to liberation, but how they do it, and to what degree of speed depends upon the external conditions prevalent around that person, or what that person happens to find them-self around through their own efforts?

 

It's definitely easier in certain places and times to attain Buddhahood, simply due to influence. I mean, if you want to be a Buddha, you're going to want to be influenced by Buddhas. But, at the same time, not all traditions are even interested in Buddhahood. Some just want some sort of enlightenment as defined differently by different traditions, or elongation of their time in the body is considered an enlightened venture, or they want personal power and this is considered enlightening, etc.

 

So, one has to ask oneself what they themselves really wants, and why before choosing the particular path they trod upon to that end.

 

Ultimately the answers are within yourself, but again, it's true that certain environments are better for inner cultivation than others. This can change dependent upon a persons level of progression as well. Some may only need a monastery for a short period of time before it becomes a hindrance. Some need it their entire life and it's not a hindrance. Others need to be in the Urban life in order to integrate what they've learned in a monastery with regular people. Some monks need to drop their robes and get naked with a chick in order to go deeper within themselves or vice versa...

 

My 2 cents.

 

You are right in that not all traditions or outsiders of, are interested in buddhahood or Buddhism, due to the fact it is just another authoritarian belief system, that provides little benefit to the true believers, except a nice little belief system.

 

Exactly what does "them-self" mean? That is a new one for me.

 

Welcome back!

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

Exactly what does "them-self" mean? That is a new one for me.

 

 

I meant to say it's the individual that leads his/her self to liberation, ultimately speaking.

 

It's just tons easier with the right influence.

[Mandrake]

I know!

 

No evidence from the karma-guys so far......

We are waiting!

 

 

Edit: I guess they are afraid of our debunking!

 

 

Do you believe it is a privilege to be allowed to reply to you? Often it is a matter of attitude why people shun participating in a discussion; if it is a setup for derision, why join with the evidence you have?

 

If the purpose of each thread becomes win-vs-loose, and some guys take special pride in the defeat of others, many people will just stay out.

 

There are a couple of people on this board that have genuine knowledge, and I appreciate it every time they share, but they are not any communal bank of sorts to which whoever wants can go and empty the deposits at a whim.

 

 

Mandrake

[bodyoflight]

Body of light,

 

What is your honest motivation for practicing and wanting enlightenment??? do you feel a deep yearning inside you for the divine? are you wanting to be a great guru?

 

Are you trying to fill a void inside you fuelled by lack of self-worth? be honest..

 

There are many paths, one size does not fit all.

 

Are you wanting to benefit yourself, or all beings including yourself, or just benefit other beings?

 

 

peace

Ed

 

true enlightenment does not care whether you benefit yourself or just others..

 

it is only concerned with getting rid of the animal ego..

 

my only interest in gaining enlightenment is to seek escape from this prison holographic planet..

 

and if i have to destroy everything in my path, even to the extent of destroying my own life, to reach enlightenment..

 

i will have no hesitation in doing so..

Edited May 19, 2011 by bodyoflight

[bodyoflight]

You know very little about most folks in the world.

Why feel shame for the behavior of others?

Why feel shame for your assumptions of the behavior of others?

Who are you really feeling shame for?

Those same questions will be with you here and in the Himalayas.

If you need to be that far removed from money and women to concentrate on your development, that is fine.

Know that if you ever return, money and women will be waiting for you and still need reconciliation.

The real challenge is working on yourself in the face of your desires and vices.

Much easier to cultivate in a vacuum.

Good luck in your cultivation.

 

 

the only reason why i wanna remove myself from the masses is to prevent the masses from pulling me down with them..

 

in more ways than one..

 

i will rather kill myself than to let the masses pull me down with their depravity..

 

i am sure more than one in here knows what i am talking about..

[bodyoflight]

Beware of 'protesting too much'. Have a plan, be prepared, go for it. Beware of getting to clingy and preachy, you may be creating attachments, strong ones. When your going to do something hard, you quiet your mind and do it. When you don't, you toss it around, argue w/ people; get self righteous instead get going.

 

You never write about any practice or discipline you do. Instead its on things and places you haven't experienced. So people are skeptical of your drive and ability.

 

You won't convince people with your theories of 'who's the best'. But give us details if you're really going. When you buy the ticket, how much, where you'll land. What your packing and any groups you'll be contacting there. There is a chance people here who could actually help.

 

Have you even begun to plan such a trip? Or is it still in the fantasy stage? Are you fantasizing about being accepted by a great yogi, and you've never even done a YMCA yoga class?

 

edit

View Postbodyoflight, on 17 May 2011 - 01:46 AM, said:

 

i will always feel shame for those who are wasting their lives away chasing after women and money and not know it! despite being far older and supposedly more "mature" than a 14 year old kid!

 

Um, are you a 14 year old kid?

 

i am already submitting the paperwork for visas and all those stuff..

 

i wish i am that particular 14 year old kid mentioned in the 1st post..

 

he is far greater than 99.9999999999% of the world's population .. certainly far greater than 99.99999999999% of humans twice his age and more...

 

i hate to say this but most of us in here are inferior to that 14 year old kid (20 year old now).. myself included..

[bodyoflight]

Finding the right place to study in the Himalaya's might be difficult these days, I have heard that many of the monastery's have become tourist destinations or have been polluted by government regulations and interference, but also some are being rebuilt in some areas.

 

Bhutan is the last remaining Mahayana kingdom but tourists are regulated and generally western hippy type spiritual seekers aren't encouraged or allowed to enter. But it is said that Padmasambhava hid a great deal of teachings in the hills of Bhutan which will re-emerge at the right time in the future, Chogyam Trungpa apparently gained many of his realisations there before going to teach in the West when he was meditating at the Tigers Nest which was Padmasambhava's monastery. My parents recently returned from there and they said they went to a monastery where the monks are in seclusion for three years, three months and three days to meditate, in the dark the entire time so some ancient ancient places still survive if that sort of practice attracts you, getting a teacher to teach you and a visa for your time is another matter.

 

you have already mentioned one of the last remaining strongholds of pure consciousness in the world which are in India coincidentally..

 

if i can't even seek help there, i will destroy my own life..

 

this is a guarantee..

Edited May 19, 2011 by bodyoflight

[bodyoflight]

Often the loud theoreticians are the ones doing nothing. The most talented find their path and work on it diligently. Really its not who's the greatest; its how much time do YOU spend on the mat.

 

 

Michael

 

edit: If BOL wrote he was doing things in preparation (studying the language, getting contacts, etc) I don't think I'd come off half so critical. The thing is most of Know what its like to be a 14 year old in search of mystic experience. We also know what its like at 15, 16,20 & 30.

 

Where he's at, his desires and goals are probably similar at some point to ours. I don't think we're trying to take away a youngsters wings as much as make sure they're pointing in the right direction and capable of taking off.

 

that youngster is far greater than most humans twice his age.. far greater than you or me..

 

his desires and goals are far loftier than ours..

 

he has seen through the illusion to the true state of the world and managed to stick to his guns..

 

btw i am not looking up to him as a guru.. but he is certainly greater than me.. and everybody should feel ashamed when comparing themselves to him..

[bodyoflight]

Can the ego really be cut off?

Or should it be tamed instead?

 

then you have not experienced true inner enlightenment yet but only the initial parts..

[bodyoflight]

New Mexico is a spiritual hotspot. I know plenty of caves body of light could crawl into. These are ancient ceremonial caves. Aside from a few friendly rattlesnakes, he should be fine.

 

new mexico doesn;t have the huge lineage which the tibetans possess..

[bodyoflight]

Bodyoflight, I feel really sorry for you.

What you are saying is that you want to escape from life itself, instead of embracing it.

An extreme view like this, in the modern world, can only lead to heartache.

The 'problems' that you leave behind will be waiting for you in greater numbers when you 'return'.

How will you deal with them then, when your social skills will be severely lacking due to isolation in the mountains ?

The better cultivators are the ones who don't shy away from their responsibilities as human beings.

 

before 2010 spring, i would say i am escaping from life..

 

now, i would say i am escaping from the unenlightened masses whose spiritual abilities are opened by the visitors but who are now using their spiritual abilities to attack people like me because of their lack of wisdom..

 

i won't be returning to real life until i have trained myself to adequately defend myself from such spiritual attacks and reach inner enlightenment at least..

 

my responsibilities? you mean my responsibilities in helping the unenlightened masses?

 

the only responsibility i have is to myself and not to the world..

 

and if the gods or visitors will punish me or delay my efforts in trying to enlighten myself without taking the rest of the masses with me,

 

or if they even tell the tibetans not to teach me..

 

i promise to destroy my own life before september 2011..

 

this is a promise, visitors, guardians, gods, time travellers whatever.. you all know who you are..

Edited May 19, 2011 by bodyoflight

[bodyoflight]

Here is an appropriate song for 'body of light.'

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp1ekcwPNfQ

 

by death or by turning into a body of light..

 

i WILL be out of here..

 

i have done enough spiritual work to guarantee myself a ticket..

[bodyoflight]

Well this does sum up your lack of ability to achieve the highest level of spirituality. But then again your mouth only speak words filled with hot air. Body of light or a body that still needs cultivation.

 

i still need lots of work.. i have never denied that..

 

but only words filled with hot air?...

 

when i move to india, i will send you a report..

[bodyoflight]

This is called "spiritual materialism". It's a deadly disease. You are chasing the external lights.

 

In any case, go to India, it's OK. Report back what you find. I hear many of the people there are snobs, exclusivists, and sometimes downright racists. Many Indians still believe in the caste system. Maybe I am wrong and you'll get lucky. Go.

 

 

 

More is always better. Yes, that kind of thinking sounds familiar.

 

 

 

You don't have to imitate anyone.

 

what the indians are are no concern of mine..

 

i am staying away from the cities and living in rather remote areas..

[bodyoflight]

I know personally 2 European women of which one eats nothing and another did it for 2 years in a meditation reterat,just drinking some milk .No big deal and these are very normal women/human beings.People are doing it all over the world .In my opinion there has to be at least semi balance on the Earth for the life to continue so there would be masters -as you call them everywhere.

 

I have also met a Indian hermit living in high Himalayas in some cave who didnt eat/drink as the river froze most of the winter(got a skill out of need)an spend most time in spiritual practises/mediation got some powers.Astral travel and similar.

But when functioning in physical world he was super messed up and dissorienteted.When me and my mate visited him whilst on the terk -at some point he put on ski boots someone gave him on to go and pick some herbs(!) .And than spotted his hermit neighbour and start chasing him with the an axe.Later on within next 10 min we have discovered that this guy has serious emotional issues regardless of his continuus spiritual practise.Few months after he was taken down by police due to his violent behaviour.

Some hermit gossip ,food for thought.

Anyways Himalayas are very beutiful .Gold is right people can be racist and snobbish AND sexist,but also some people Ive met there are the warmest and welcoming people ever.

Do what you feel you gotta do,not what you think you should do always works well.

 

last i checked.. the tibetan monks are doing alright..

 

your hermit neighbour might be following the wrong paths..

 

i don't intend to mix with the indians too much.. only the tibetans..

[bodyoflight]

You know were I am going? I am going to Tahiti. Seth Ananda, who I have a lot of faith in, says that his friend who has studied with Tahitian shamans says that he thought they had gotten further than any of the many indian, tibetan and chinese masters he had met. Ha said this was because when he loked in the eyes of the Tahitian shamans it looked as they were ambracing the whole universe whereas in teh eyes of the asian masters he did not see that. By the way tahiti is one of the worlds most sexually indulgent places. At least it used to be. Check out Seths posts to read about it.

 

Or you can consider comming to Oslo. My teacher spent for years in Tibetan monestaries and studied with the two Dzogchen masters that were considered the most advanced in Dzogchen in tibetan buddhism at the time. However, the woman who is now his teacher and whom he thinks is the only Buddha he has ever met lives in Oslo and does not teach formally only those she encounters in her life. He says that her vibration was significantly higher than that of any tibetan master he met and her aura differently coloured. He has sent tens of thousands of hours talking with her. He said that sometimes they talked for 16 hours a day. At the end of such days he would be drained but she would have more energy than at the begining and her vibration would have gotten even higher. I don`t think she has much siddhis and I think she is utterly uninterested in them. However, my teacher says she is the only one he has met that truly does not seem to feel any sense of seperationa and truly feels the suffering of others as his own. Norway has a small poppulation but she lived in Oslo which is a fairly big city. She was and is also married. She puts a lot of emphasis on embracing life completely like Tahitian shamans and would find your views escapist and motivated by fear and I think she would say anything buildt on fear is moving you in the wrong direction.

 

I don`t think I have met any woman that holds similar views as you but many men. I think that fact that your views are so exclusively male and has none of the views of the feminine in them is a clear indication that they are wrong because a view based only on yang or only on yin is imbalanced and never right. It is a good rule of thumb to aply as a check to ones thinking.

 

i don't really care what you think..

 

i am following a system of spirituality where there is an established record of practitioners turning into bodies of light..

 

do the tahiti or taoist or osho or new mexican or even the rest of the hindu traditions have as luminous a record as the dzogchen, sakya, nyingma and other tibetan monks?

 

there are successful cases of enlightenment in every tradition but none as numerous or as significant as the tibetans..

 

connect the dots and you will find no traditions as successful as the tibetans..

 

how big are they? how many successful practitioners are there?

 

how well do the different lineages cooperate with each other?

 

the different lineages do not compete with each other.. this proves that there is no ego within the tibetans as compared to the taoists who are always trying to compete with each other..

 

why are the tibetans located in the himalayas initially?

 

connect the dots.. and you will see the truth..

[bodyoflight]

Or maybe accepting all there is for what it is... with your mind and body free of attachment to it.

When you are at total peace with your inner and outer world, you can cultivate at the heart of New York City.

Or you can go to Himalayas if you need help with that. It certainly helps.

 

Still, it's hard to keep your attainment if you only are able to preserve it by removing the influences of the outside world. Let them try to do it while expending yourself to the size of the universe while fucking a woman with an open heart, and I will be truly impressed.

 

you are saying.. learn to fly before you learn to walk..

 

how about learning to walk first before running and flying?..

 

how about learning to expand yourself to the size of the universe first before trying that out with a woman?

 

but then , once you learn to expand yourself to the size of the universe.. what's the point of fcuking a woman then?

 

for your ego? to impress other people? to prove that you are superman?..

 

this post of yours proves that you are hardly enlightened..