can't you see the gods can take away your family, your children, your wealth, your health, even your sexual abilities anytime they want to?

[ralis]

If you are strong enough, that you can deny or even control those who are trying to influence you.

 

A life with lots of women and money and family and friends but which is influenced by outside forces/beings is a pretty pathetic life indeed.

 

You are still thinking from the perspective that I am avoiding pain and suffering. I am going to Himalayas not to avoid pain and suffering because life in Himalayas is going to be much more challenging than where I am now.

 

But I am going to Himalayas to learn to deal with pain and suffering as the Himalayas will give me a much better training than cities in developed countries. Afterall there are more gurus in the Himalayas than anywhere else in the world.

 

What is extremism? What is renunciation? Those are empty words to me and empty concepts.

 

I don't see going to the Himalayas as extremism or renunciation. I am not going to give up all my money now, am I? I am still going to be connected to the Net.

 

If you are prepared to live without your wealth, health, women and good life, then congratulations. But action speaks louder than words.

 

Why not come to the Himalayas with me and see if you can live without the luxuries and convenience of the modern cities? That way, you will prove to me that you are indeed prepared to lose everything in your life.

 

Civilization will end in a way no human has ever experienced before. So don't go around saying that humans have always experienced civilization-ending crisis.

 

This one will be totally different and I can't wait to see how everyone's ego will be totally electrocuted...

 

 

 

Do you have any idea what the winters are like in the Himalayas? We are not talking about kiddie play. Even if you could live off the elements, that would take years to master and tummo is not easy.

 

Expect to have giardia, parasites, dysentery and a host of other medical problems.

Edited May 21, 2011 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

I only depend on the Creator and no one else.

 

Hurry? I have not even pressed my foot down on the accelerator yet.

 

 

What creator?

[Vajrahridaya]

I guess you agree.

 

Over the years, it's become obvious that you only see what you want to see to protect your precious ego.

[goldisheavy]

If you are strong enough, that you can deny or even control those who are trying to influence you.

 

That's not true. You can exercise greater or lesser degrees of influence, but you'll never have outright control over anything. Not even Buddha had outright control over anything. Good thing here is that we have more than enough influence available to us to make ourselves content if we wish to be content.

 

So in practical terms it means that maybe you can redirect the blows of an opponent, but you won't do so without getting tired and eventually you'll either meet an opponent who is better than you are, or you'll lose your concentration for a split second and fail to redirect the blow properly. So it's not an outright control, it's just influence. Influence is important, but don't confuse influence with control.

 

A life with lots of women and money and family and friends but which is influenced by outside forces/beings is a pretty pathetic life indeed.

 

I agree, but in truth all such things are influenced by outside forces. Even our bodies are influenced by outside forces. Even the bodies of spiritual titans are also influenced. They can withstand more abuse, but they aren't infinite. They too fall down sometimes/eventually. Daoism has a lot of interesting stories about power. Like how one guy drank poison but although he could withstand it, he needed 12 tubs of cold water to cool off his body from all the heat that he generated while combatting the poison internally. That's kind of the nature of power. Power is influence, it is not outright control. This is at least true if you're a sentient being among other sentient beings.

 

You are still thinking from the perspective that I am avoiding pain and suffering. I am going to Himalayas not to avoid pain and suffering because life in Himalayas is going to be much more challenging than where I am now.

 

That's not true. You're trading one type of pain and suffering for another type. You don't want to experience the pain and suffering of losing your wife/girlfriend, friends and your wealth, but you don't mind the pain and suffering of harsh day to day life. So you fear one kind of loss more so than the other kind. You're optimizing your life to minimize suffering.

 

But I am going to Himalayas to learn to deal with pain and suffering as the Himalayas will give me a much better training than cities in developed countries. Afterall there are more gurus in the Himalayas than anywhere else in the world.

 

Thing is, in Himalayas you'll learn how to deal with the Himalayan kind of pain and suffering. To learn how to deal with the worldly suffering of the kind you're running away from, you will need to return from Himalayas and dive in once again, so you can transcend that which you swim in. So your training in Himalayas is going to be productive, but at the same time, if you think everyone who is away from Himalayas is wasting time, that's a huge mistake on your part.

 

What is extremism? What is renunciation? Those are empty words to me and empty concepts.

 

Extremism is mental clinging to one end of the spectrum, often as an antidote to another end. Of course extremism is a poor antidote because it doesn't lead to balance and harmony, but instead it leads to crazy pendulum-like swings of the mind.

 

I don't see going to the Himalayas as extremism or renunciation. I am not going to give up all my money now, am I? I am still going to be connected to the Net.

 

Simply going to Himalayas is not in and of itself an extremist intention. What makes it extremist is how you frame it in your own mind, or at least, how you explained it to us here in no uncertain terms.

 

If you are prepared to live without your wealth, health, women and good life, then congratulations. But action speaks louder than words.

 

What action is that? If I am prepared to punch people, should I start punching every passer by to prove I am serious? Who am I going to convince? Them, or myself? Who is the important person to convince here? Who are you trying to convince with your important actions?

 

Why not come to the Himalayas with me and see if you can live without the luxuries and convenience of the modern cities? That way, you will prove to me that you are indeed prepared to lose everything in your life.

 

First of all, that action will not necessarily prove anything to you. If you like, you can continue to have doubts as long as you want. And at the same time, why should I be seeking to prove something to you? Are you going to Himalayas to prove something to someone else?

 

Civilization will end in a way no human has ever experienced before. So don't go around saying that humans have always experienced civilization-ending crisis.

 

And I am telling you, it's not a big deal. People who die of cancer experience more suffering than anyone on this planet at the end of the civilization.

 

This one will be totally different and I can't wait to see how everyone's ego will be totally electrocuted...

 

So you have a vicious streak, don't you? You enjoy the suffering of others?

Edited May 21, 2011 by goldisheavy

[ralis]

Over the years, it's become obvious that you only see what you want to see to protect your precious ego.

 

We all see and perceive what we want to see and believe. With absolutely no exceptions! No one will ever perceive the totally of the cosmos as you so believe.

[Vajrahridaya]

We all see and perceive what we want to see and believe. With absolutely no exceptions! No one will ever perceive the totally of the cosmos as you so believe.

 

You have a flawed memory, you should take some Ginko. I've mentioned this to you before, due to your lack of remembering critical things I've said concerning my understanding.

 

I believe in seeing directly the nature of things, not absolutely everything. One can never know all things at once.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

You have a really bad memory, you should take some Ginko. I've mentioned this to you before, due to your lack of remembering critical things I've said concerning my understanding.

 

I believe in seeing directly the nature of things, not absolutely everything. One can never know all things at once.

 

I don't have a bad memory. Why should I remember everything you have said? That would really clutter my very sophisticated mind. Ginkgo biloba has not been proven to help memory.

Edited May 21, 2011 by ralis

[C T]

 

The rewards gained in a little, safe, padded box are different from the rewards gained in the world out there..

 

A life with family and children and friendships and lovers is to me a dreary life.

 

A life which you can interact with the Gods and Outer Dimensions is to me the most fulfilling life.

 

Depends on who's doing the living, i guess.

 

Btw, even the gods and beings from the outer dimensions have procreation. Not sure if they have 'families and friends' the way we understand the concept, but certainly, from what some people have said here and elsewhere, they appear to demonstrate a desire to inter-mingle. I suppose they would also have the desire for power and other impermanent things - otherwise why would they even bother to make themselves known to people, like yourself, for example?

 

I am thinking whether its possible that when you make contact with these beings, whereby they agree to give you a pass into their dimension, if you will also find dissatisfaction and a lot of unease happening among the majority of these folks? Sure, they would have their own sages and saints (which i am sure you will get to hear of), but who knows, when you get there, you may have to again seek for another 'Lost Horizon' to meet these so-called higher masters, only this time, it wont be as visible because of the different dimension of time/space. The reason i am speculating in this way is because you seem to have carried over some gross karmic attachment from a previous existence in a different plane to come to this one, only to begin your search all over again. Does not make much sense, does it?

 

As a friendly reminder - Of all the different realms of existence, its only in the human one that awakening can take place, because its only in this realm that past karmic tendencies have the potential to be diminished by doing the right practice, thru following the correct path that leads to the cessation of ignorance and suffering. Not saying that beings in other realms do not have the same privilege, its just that they have to bide their time and ride out their past karmic accumulations, whereas only as humans can work be done to speed up the process.

[C T]

 

The rewards gained in a little, safe, padded box are different from the rewards gained in the world out there..

 

A life with family and children and friendships and lovers is to me a dreary life.

 

A life which you can interact with the Gods and Outer Dimensions is to me the most fulfilling life.

 

Depends on who's doing the living, i guess.

 

Btw, even the gods and beings from the outer dimensions have procreation. Not sure if they have 'families and friends' the way we understand the concept, but certainly, from what some people have said here and elsewhere, they appear to demonstrate a desire to inter-mingle. I suppose they would also have the desire for power and other impermanent things - otherwise why would they even bother to make themselves known to people, like yourself, for example?

 

I am thinking whether its possible that when you make contact with these beings, whereby they agree to give you a pass into their dimension, if you will also find dissatisfaction and a lot of unease happening among the majority of these folks? Sure, they would have their own sages and saints (which i am sure you will get to hear of), but who knows, when you get there, you may have to again seek for another 'Lost Horizon' to meet these so-called higher masters, only this time, it wont be as visible because of the different dimension of time/space. The reason i am speculating in this way is because you seem to have carried over some gross karmic attachment from a previous existence in a different plane to come to this one, only to begin your search all over again. Does not make much sense, does it?

 

As a friendly reminder - Of all the different realms of existence, its only in the human one that awakening can take place, because its only in this realm that past karmic tendencies have the potential to be diminished by doing the right practice, thru following the correct path that leads to the cessation of ignorance and suffering. Not saying that beings in other realms do not have the same privilege, its just that they have to bide their time and ride out their past karmic accumulations, whereas only as humans can work be done to speed up the process.

[bodyoflight]

Actually I could pull that one off. However, it makes no difference if I am sitting on a mountain in Nepal or playing poker on a Fri. night in Vegas.

 

 

Do you have any idea what the winters are like in the Himalayas? We are not talking about kiddie play. Even if you could live off the elements, that would take years to master and tummo is not easy.

 

Expect to have giardia, parasites, dysentery and a host of other medical problems.

 

If it makes no difference to you if you are in a Nepalese mountains or playing poker in Vegas, then why should the Himalayan Winters bother you?

 

Clearly a case of your ego blowing its horn again.

 

Don't be so weak and fearful of hardships.

[bodyoflight]

Over the years, it's become obvious that you only see what you want to see to protect your precious ego.

 

I think his ego is confused.

 

On one hand, he makes no difference between playing poker in Vegas and meditating in the Nepalese mountains.

 

On the other hand, he is afraid of the Himalayan Winters and all the associated diseases..

 

Me thinks his ego is breaking down.. lol..

[bodyoflight]

That's not true. You can exercise greater or lesser degrees of influence, but you'll never have outright control over anything. Not even Buddha had outright control over anything. Good thing here is that we have more than enough influence available to us to make ourselves content if we wish to be content.

 

Goldilocks Goldilocks.. how do you know what others are capable of?

 

Do you judge every single human on this earth by your own rather limited capabilities?

 

You might not be strong enough to withstand the external influences but it doesn't mean that others can't.

 

The name of the game is to totally defeat and destroy every external influence controlling our desires and minds and if you are too weak to do it, be prepared to die like the sheep being eaten by the wolves.

 

So in practical terms it means that maybe you can redirect the blows of an opponent, but you won't do so without getting tired and eventually you'll either meet an opponent who is better than you are, or you'll lose your concentration for a split second and fail to redirect the blow properly. So it's not an outright control, it's just influence. Influence is important, but don't confuse influence with control.

 

ahhhh.. so i see you DO know what I am talking about..

 

when a person is weak enough.. the influence will overcome him to such a great degree that it will become control..

 

i can tell you right now.. the masters who are high enough.. the ones who remain in god-mental mode continuously look upon such influences as flies..

 

they brush off such influences even without batting an eyelid..

 

 

I agree, but in truth all such things are influenced by outside forces. Even our bodies are influenced by outside forces. Even the bodies of spiritual titans are also influenced. They can withstand more abuse, but they aren't infinite. They too fall down sometimes/eventually. Daoism has a lot of interesting stories about power. Like how one guy drank poison but although he could withstand it, he needed 12 tubs of cold water to cool off his body from all the heat that he generated while combatting the poison internally. That's kind of the nature of power. Power is influence, it is not outright control. This is at least true if you're a sentient being among other sentient beings.

 

once a soul has evolved enough to such a degree.. no outside forces currently in play on earth will be sufficient to influence such a powerful soul..

 

this is why fortune tellers are never accurate.. they only see the immediate timelines influenced by the current forces including the stars..

 

but when a soul summon up the necessary power and energy to destroy the influences and change the timelines.. this is where timelines change...

 

power can be influence and outright control.. depending on how you play the power..

 

a spiritual being only falls down when he decides to stop evolving.. no spiritual being can fall if he decides to continuously evolve..

 

 

That's not true. You're trading one type of pain and suffering for another type. You don't want to experience the pain and suffering of losing your wife/girlfriend, friends and your wealth, but you don't mind the pain and suffering of harsh day to day life. So you fear one kind of loss more so than the other kind. You're optimizing your life to minimize suffering.

 

 

Not true.. I don't mind experiencing the pain and suffering of losing the mundane things in life if they lead to enlightenment immediately..

 

unfortunately, they don't..

 

it is the waste of time and energy on unnecessary things which i fear.. the pain and suffering of losing a spouse/partner/friends and wealth is nothing compared to the waste of time and energy on useless activities..

 

you can get over pain and suffering but you can't get back the time and energies wasted..

 

this is the true problem..

 

if i want to minimize suffering, hell i would have cultivated in the cities.. but the amount of return for every second of training in the city is minimal compared for every second of training in the himalayas...

[.broken.]

I have a great respect for you, body of light, when you make clear your determination as you have done in this thread. I cannot admit to having read it all but I wanted to respond to a particular post of yours.

 

it is not that I am running away from the pleasures of friends and families..

 

it is that I find NO PLEASURES in dealing with friends and families..

 

Friends, family and other people in general give one's self the opportunity to refine. A kind word when faced with nothing but hatred, some money for the homeless man on the street so he can eat, the opportunity to heal wounds inflicted previously or presently.

 

It is my understanding and experience that your own personal spiritual progress is linked to one's karma. It is with this understanding that I undertake both small and large commitments to other people and their well-being. As well as aiding them through their physical, mental and/or spiritual suffering, it also adds more fuel to my spiritual fire.

 

This in turn leads to more compassion, greater energy flow, a dissolving of the boundaries that separate internal and external. To live with family, friends etc. is an opportunity to advance spiritually. Likewise is your chosen path.

 

I would caution you not to become too attached to the experiences in other dimensions. It's possible to find the same suffering no matter what realm you find your perception in. Mind, it also brings the possibility of spiritual advancement.

 

Thank you Michael..

 

I finally understand 100% what I am..

 

I am Not Human but I am Godly.. in the sense that I am aiming for Godly things rather than Human ones..

 

You seek wholeness, integrity and a healed heart. That is a cause for celebration! You are uncovering the path of the saint. Praise to you who wards of evil within your self.

 

* bow *

 

Follow your heart, brother.

 

With love,

James

[bodyoflight]

 

Thing is, in Himalayas you'll learn how to deal with the Himalayan kind of pain and suffering. To learn how to deal with the worldly suffering of the kind you're running away from, you will need to return from Himalayas and dive in once again, so you can transcend that which you swim in. So your training in Himalayas is going to be productive, but at the same time, if you think everyone who is away from Himalayas is wasting time, that's a huge mistake on your part.

 

 

My training in the Himalayas will be far more productive than training in the city.

 

Matter of Return on Investment.

 

Extremism is mental clinging to one end of the spectrum, often as an antidote to another end. Of course extremism is a poor antidote because it doesn't lead to balance and harmony, but instead it leads to crazy pendulum-like swings of the mind.

 

I don't call it extremism.

 

I call it a matter of strategic planning.

 

Simply going to Himalayas is not in and of itself an extremist intention. What makes it extremist is how you frame it in your own mind, or at least, how you explained it to us here in no uncertain terms.

 

Thank you for calling it not an extremist intention because lots of people have trained in the Himalayas before me.

 

You will be making yourself out to be a fool if you call all those other people extremist too.

 

What action is that? If I am prepared to punch people, should I start punching every passer by to prove I am serious? Who am I going to convince? Them, or myself? Who is the important person to convince here? Who are you trying to convince with your important actions?

 

I am trying to convince no one here.

 

However you are trying to convince me that you have no problems living in the Himalayas..

 

Prove it.

 

First of all, that action will not necessarily prove anything to you. If you like, you can continue to have doubts as long as you want. And at the same time, why should I be seeking to prove something to you? Are you going to Himalayas to prove something to someone else?

 

Then you are just merely talking when you said you are prepared to lose everything else in life.

 

I do not talk. I do.

 

So you have a vicious streak, don't you? You enjoy the suffering of others?

 

I enjoy the destruction of the human egos caused by suffering. Not the actual suffering itself.

[bodyoflight]

Depends on who's doing the living, i guess.

 

Btw, even the gods and beings from the outer dimensions have procreation. Not sure if they have 'families and friends' the way we understand the concept, but certainly, from what some people have said here and elsewhere, they appear to demonstrate a desire to inter-mingle. I suppose they would also have the desire for power and other impermanent things - otherwise why would they even bother to make themselves known to people, like yourself, for example?

 

I am thinking whether its possible that when you make contact with these beings, whereby they agree to give you a pass into their dimension, if you will also find dissatisfaction and a lot of unease happening among the majority of these folks? Sure, they would have their own sages and saints (which i am sure you will get to hear of), but who knows, when you get there, you may have to again seek for another 'Lost Horizon' to meet these so-called higher masters, only this time, it wont be as visible because of the different dimension of time/space. The reason i am speculating in this way is because you seem to have carried over some gross karmic attachment from a previous existence in a different plane to come to this one, only to begin your search all over again. Does not make much sense, does it?

 

As a friendly reminder - Of all the different realms of existence, its only in the human one that awakening can take place, because its only in this realm that past karmic tendencies have the potential to be diminished by doing the right practice, thru following the correct path that leads to the cessation of ignorance and suffering. Not saying that beings in other realms do not have the same privilege, its just that they have to bide their time and ride out their past karmic accumulations, whereas only as humans can work be done to speed up the process.

 

How do you know what the outer realms and dimensions are?

 

How do you know beings in other realms can't destroy their own karmic tendencies too in their own dimensions/realms/planets?

[C T]

How do you know what the outer realms and dimensions are?

 

How do you know beings in other realms can't destroy their own karmic tendencies too in their own dimensions/realms/planets?

I am only speculating, in the same way most of what you write are - you keep assuming the gods do this, that and t'other... so i am merely trying to communicate with you at your frequency, is all. You dont like this mode of relating? Then please refrain from throwing up so many assumptions eh?

[C T]

 

How do you know beings in other realms can't destroy their own karmic tendencies too in their own dimensions/realms/planets?

Course they can... all i said is it just takes longer, from their timeline that is, not ours. If they can't, we can't. Since we can, they can, too. Simple. The caveat is that we can make choices to do it right this time round, a human privilege that unfortunately not many are willing to cash in.

[bodyoflight]

I am only speculating, in the same way most of what you write are - you keep assuming the gods do this, that and t'other... so i am merely trying to communicate with you at your frequency, is all. You dont like this mode of relating? Then please refrain from throwing up so many assumptions eh?

 

I know that the higher beings whom I am trying to contact with said this..

 

"Humans on earth has very little chance of enlightenment because they waste all their time and energies on sex, money, religion, war, family, children."

 

It is very clear from this one single sentence what kind of existence higher dimensional beings lead.

[C T]

I know that the higher beings whom I am trying to contact with said this..

 

"Humans on earth has very little chance of enlightenment because they waste all their time and energies on sex, money, religion, war, family, children."

 

It is very clear from this one single sentence what kind of existence higher dimensional beings lead.

Interesting... one would think that its precisely these things that increases the desire for people to want to seek enlightenment? The very reason why you are trapped under the very same delusion that you think the wasters are confined by? You just happen to frame it differently, but fundamentally, its still influenced by dualistic notions.

[Marblehead]

i thought everything was illusion, event his. I thought nothing really existed.

 

even if we tried to make this our goal we'd be thrown off the path. So again, what's the point? if in the end we'd end up unconscious.

 

I need a smilie of a guy smashing his head against a brick wall.

 

The Manifest, the physical aspect of Tao is just as real as any other aspect of Tao.

 

Stop with this 'everything is illusion' crap. It gets you nowhere.

 

There are processes. Our body gets old and we die. Sometimes a person will die before they get old. I have no idea what happens with our soul and spirit when we die. I haven't died yet so I have no idea. I do know that our body will return to Earth.

 

But just because we don't know what will happen to our soul and spirit when we die shouldn't have any effect on how we live our life while we have a body to live with.

[Marblehead]

Can anyone tell me when non-existence ever existed?

 

Nope. The closest I can get to that is the point of Singularity (prior to the Big Bang). (But that was not non-existence.)

[Marblehead]

What creator?

 

I wasn't going to mention that. Hehehe.

[Non]

I need a smilie of a guy smashing his head against a brick wall.

 

The Manifest, the physical aspect of Tao is just as real as any other aspect of Tao.

 

Stop with this 'everything is illusion' crap. It gets you nowhere.

 

There are processes. Our body gets old and we die. Sometimes a person will die before they get old. I have no idea what happens with our soul and spirit when we die. I haven't died yet so I have no idea. I do know that our body will return to Earth.

 

But just because we don't know what will happen to our soul and spirit when we die shouldn't have any effect on how we live our life while we have a body to live with.

 

yea but my life is surreal. it doesn't get ANY good. any effort I make is worthless it seems. At least in another's life it seems they get results. even the simplest results.

[Marblehead]

yea but my life is surreal. it doesn't get ANY good. any effort I make is worthless it seems. At least in another's life it seems they get results. even the simplest results.

 

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I have been with you here since your beginning. I know that you have work to do. And that is my point - you need to do that work.

 

My life wasn't always a bowl of cherries. I have had many down times. But I refused to let any thing or any one keep me down. I always got up and tried again. Mistakes? Sure, I have made, Oh!, so many. But that is the past. Everything we do, everything we think is already history by the time we realize it. Every moment is a new moment - a chance for a new life - an opportunity for awareness - an opportunity for a meaningful life.

 

Now, just because you are messing up right now doesn't mean that you are messed up, it just means that you are trying the wrong things for 'you' and your conditions. If we keep making the same mistakes it is pretty much a given that we are doing the wrong thing.

 

Expand yourself. Right now I would likely guess that your ego is in your way. Possibly also that you are placing your expectations on life and your expectations are not realistic.

 

And as much as I dislike saying this (hehehe), Buddhism is an excellent means of getting rid of the escessive ego and your expectations of the universe.

 

Go for a trip into outer space and realize the meaninglessness of everything and then come back to Earth and find all the meaning that life provides.

 

Best Wishes!

[Apech]

 

Stop with this 'everything is illusion' crap. It gets you nowhere.

 

 

 

Hurrah!!!!!!!!