can't you see the gods can take away your family, your children, your wealth, your health, even your sexual abilities anytime they want to?

[Jetsun]

so why even care to survive then?

 

That's the big question. Everything you open your heart to love will die, even our sun will die one day, so what's the point? I intuit that there is a point but I don't know for sure what it is.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Jetsun

[Vajrahridaya]

That's the big question. Everything you open your heart to love will die, even our sun will die one day, so what's the point? I intuit that there is a point but I don't know for sure what it is.

 

Opening your heart to the bodhisattva path, to Buddhahood, that won't die, even if your body does... that you will carry into other dimensions of mental manifestation. This can be directly experienced through deep and intense meditation... if done correctly with "right guidance."

[Non]

Opening your heart to the bodhisattva path, to Buddhahood, that won't die, even if your body does... that you will carry into other dimensions of mental manifestation. This can be directly experienced through deep and intense meditation... if done correctly with "right guidance."

 

i thought everything was illusion, event his. I thought nothing really existed.

 

even if we tried to make this our goal we'd be thrown off the path. So again, what's the point? if in the end we'd end up unconscious.

[bodyoflight]

 

Often it is better to cultivate to a higher level, and then do the worldly things. But it can go the other way around.

 

My 0.02 cents. Good luck with your journey BOL.

 

If you (ever do) come back let us know!

 

Yes, this is what I am talking about!

 

Cultivate to the higher level of existence first and then come back do the worldly things if that's what you want?

 

The Buddha did it. Jesus did it.

 

You don't see the Buddha or Jesus preaching to the masses before they reached enlightenment, did they?

[Non]

Yes, this is what I am talking about!

 

Cultivate to the higher level of existence first and then come back do the worldly things if that's what you want?

 

The Buddha did it. Jesus did it.

 

You don't see the Buddha or Jesus preaching to the masses before they reached enlightenment, did they?

 

well the Buddha did have a worldly life before he tried to cultivate. he had a wife and kids. he pretty much had all there was to physical existence. he was in a state of balance to even begin cultivating. Can a cripple who has no state of sanity even begin cultivating, at least in the way Buddha did?

 

there needs to be a healthy vessel before one can first begin cultivation.

 

if there is none then cultivation shd at least help right? or is it all just for normal healthy people, or royalty?

Edited May 21, 2011 by Non

[bodyoflight]

 

Throw away ego for Ego eh?

 

Why are you so concerned about "gods" taking your things away? What's so bad about that?

 

And why are you asking the universe for anything for that matter? Instead of training yourself to live with nothing, maybe it's better to realize you never really had anything to lose in the first place?

 

I have not realized it yet.

 

This is why I am working on the realization.

 

I am not concerned with my things being taken away. I am more concerned with such things or the loss of such things interfering with my mind.

[Eviander]

you know..

 

i have always wondered why a rich man like shakayumi would give up his wife and child and his kingdom to seek solitary enlightenment..

 

what was he thinking?.. what did he see?..

 

during the past few weeks, lots of posts have been exchanged..

 

most forummers here seem only interested in getting a good gf/bf, marrying, having kids, getting a job, having a good life partying or whatever..

 

 

You know as much I respect spiritual achievement I respect material achievement as well. I think using your prospects of enlightenment for things such as scientific, artistic, musical and even diplomatic achievement are just as good, if not greater outcomes then using it to become a recluse, therefore mastering the material world instead of becoming dominated by it.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Eviander

[doc benway]

i thought everything was illusion, event his. I thought nothing really existed.

 

even if we tried to make this our goal we'd be thrown off the path. So again, what's the point? if in the end we'd end up unconscious.

You're right, even Buddhahood is illusory, if it's all impermanent, its ALL impermanent. That's the irony.

But it is still worth the game because its not about the end. Its not about whether things last or not.

Its about the fact they are now. Life is now. Living is now and now is eternal. It is always now, never tomorrow and never yesterday. So you live forever if you live NOW.

 

To use Alan Watts' beautiful analogy, you don't go to the symphony just to hear the final chord.

You go to listen to the music, each note and the transition to the next.

Its about the rhythm and the intervals, not the notes.

 

Another great story -

Once, Mullah Nasruddin bought a violin. And he began to play. NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.... Same note, same string, over and over. NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.... After a few hours his wife was at her wits' end. "Nasruddin!" she screamed. NEEE.. Nasruddin put down the bow. "Yes dear?" "Why do you play the same note? It's driving me crazy! All the real violin players move their fingers up and down, play on different strings! Why don't you play like they do?" "Well dear, I know why they go up and down and try all different strings." "Why is that?" "They're looking for "this" note! And he picked up his bow and resumed his playing. NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE....

[Vajrahridaya]

i thought everything was illusion, event his. I thought nothing really existed.

 

That's not a Buddhist teaching. Things relatively exist, just not ultimately on an individual level. There is obviously no such thing as non-existence. If the idea occurs, it exists in that moment, as an idea. Even non-existence is an idea arising dependent upon the fact of existence.

 

even if we tried to make this our goal we'd be thrown off the path. So again, what's the point? if in the end we'd end up unconscious.

 

One may only end up unconscious for a period of time arising dependent upon various causes and conditions.

[bodyoflight]

Its painful when a child realizes things change and can be taken away. I don't think the solution is to run away from family and pleasurable things. Good things should be cherished and appreciated, all the more so because they are impermanent. Enjoy your family, your friends, health and wealth; learn and grow. Change doesn't have to be bad. The experience of loss is bitter sweet because you connected; and in connection there is level of love and understanding.

 

 

Is being a mushroom growing in the dark, the ultimate? Are ascetics who punish and deny themselves the way? How much of my humanity should I cede away; Friends, taste buds, eyes, or dick? No, let me have pleasure. Within wise constraints they make my life worthwhile. If you lack wisdom and these things cause you pain, by all means back away, re-evaluate, but to give them up because at some unknown time in the future they'll be gone is to lose the spice of life.

 

IMO desire is okay as long as you are contented with what you have. Desires are a wind that can keep us moving on course. When they become too strong its time drop sails and reevaluate where we're headed.

 

 

Ofcourse I write this as someone who is clearly on the householders path. There is a time to eat bitter. But it should be realized even that is a phase. We discipline ourselves to grow stronger. Once we've grown, we can laugh at ourselves and take the time to enjoy life, love and laughter.

 

You are saying this because you have not cultivated your consciousness to the extent where you can interact with beings from outer worlds and outer dimensions.

 

Except for health and wealth.. cos you need to eat to remain healthy to cultivate properly...

 

friends and families are nothing compared to the sheer excitement from exploring the outer dimensions and outer worlds..

 

we humans are the lowest sentient species in the universe at this present moment although we do have such great potential that everything might change after 2012..

 

there are so many higher beings to learn from.. why would you even waste a single second of your time and energy on friends and families..

 

it is not that I am running away from the pleasures of friends and families..

 

it is that I find NO PLEASURES in dealing with friends and families..

 

I find most humans, especially humans living in the cities, to be too ..

 

empty..

 

I will rather talk to hermits, ascetics, gurus, ETs, Higher Dimensional Beings instead..

 

You equate enjoying friendship, good food, looking at beautiful things, human or otherwise and sex as being human..

 

And to cut away all that is to lose much of your humanity..

 

If that's the case, then you can consider me to be ..

 

Not Human.. Because I have never found too much pleasures and only emptiness in friendship, food, beautiful things and sex..

 

I only talk to people for the sake of exchanging information.. I find no pleasures in senseless pleasant chatter..

 

I only eat to live not live to eat..

 

I look at beautiful things on earth and I see the emptiness that all beautiful things will be ugly and die in the end..

 

Sex? Just a biological need.. and once you destroy the biological need.. you won't even need sex anymore..

 

So.. you can call me Not Human for all you like.. but I can tell you right now.. being Not Human is different from being evil or unkind.. make a clear difference between these two..

 

Thank you Michael..

 

I finally understand 100% what I am..

 

I am Not Human but I am Godly.. in the sense that I am aiming for Godly things rather than Human ones..

Edited May 21, 2011 by bodyoflight

[Vajrahridaya]

You're right, even Buddhahood is illusory, if it's all impermanent, its ALL impermanent. That's the irony.

 

Buddhahood is the permanent realization that all is impermanent. It's an insight into the continuous nature of Samsaric dependent origination. It has no beginning and no end, thus this ultimate insight into this nature is just as continuous and endless as Samsara.

[Vajrahridaya]

Can anyone tell me when non-existence ever existed?

[bodyoflight]

Amen.

Life is precious exactly because of death.

Beautiful things like family, children, friendships, lovers, are precious because they will be gone someday.

It is the way of things - Taji.

If you choose not to live because you fear death, if you choose not to love because you fear loss, what a dreary life you will lead.

I feel sorry for you but I do understand. An insulated life in a little safe, padded box doesn't seem like it will be painful or threatening but life is not without pain or loss even for the masters.

And why so much talk about the masters anyway?

They are themselves, we are ourselves.

It is not my goal to become them but to become me!

And no one can show me how to be me but me.

 

I am not interested in Human things like family, children, friendships and lovers.

 

They are only meant for Humans with lower 3d consciousness..

 

The pain and loss and threats in a little safe, padded box are different from the pain and loss and threats gained in the world out there..

 

The rewards gained in a little, safe, padded box are different from the rewards gained in the world out there..

 

A life with family and children and friendships and lovers is to me a dreary life.

 

A life which you can interact with the Gods and Outer Dimensions is to me the most fulfilling life.

 

I want to become even higher and better than the masters or die trying.. And I believe I have the potential to exceed the heights reached by previous masters on earth..

 

And I do not aim to even lose a single second of my time and energies on useless human things anymore..

[ralis]

I am not interested in Human things like family, children, friendships and lovers.

 

They are only meant for Humans with lower 3d consciousness..

 

The pain and loss and threats in a little safe, padded box are different from the pain and loss and threats gained in the world out there..

 

The rewards gained in a little, safe, padded box are different from the rewards gained in the world out there..

 

A life with family and children and friendships and lovers is to me a dreary life.

 

A life which you can interact with the Gods and Outer Dimensions is to me the most fulfilling life.

 

I want to become even higher and better than the masters or die trying.. And I believe I have the potential to exceed the heights reached by previous masters on earth..

 

And I do not aim to even lose a single second of my time and energies on useless human things anymore..

 

 

I thought you left this forum.

[goldisheavy]

you know..

 

i have always wondered why a rich man like shakayumi would give up his wife and child and his kingdom to seek solitary enlightenment..

 

what was he thinking?.. what did he see?..

 

during the past few weeks, lots of posts have been exchanged..

 

most forummers here seem only interested in getting a good gf/bf, marrying, having kids, getting a job, having a good life partying or whatever..

 

It's not a good way to put things. Even if the majority of people here want a good ordinary life, it doesn't mean there isn't a significant minority that puts a high premium on renunciation. At the same time, you should understand that renunciation has nothing to do with moving to India or getting caught up in personality cults. Renunciation is an inner change. It's not an outer change. The outer change is there for the absolutely stubborn and desperate people who can't really grasp the essential point. Those silly people need structures and rules. Thus they become monks and nuns. And then there are also hermits.

 

as you know by now.. we are not in charge .. especially not after spring 2010..

 

Nonsense. We are always responsible for our share of influence on both the world and on one's own destiny. No one has outright control over anything, but to deny influence is an extremist way of thinking.

 

our wealth, our family, our wives/husbands, our children can be taken away from us anytime..

 

Who cares? What's important is that all these things are temporary even if no one takes them away. But the flip side, which you neglect to mention, is that our troubles are also temporary.

 

Or let me use your extremist language to put it to you this way: your pain and suffering can be taken away from you anytime. See? It's not just the good things in life that can be taken from you anytime. It's the bad things too. In this way you should cultivate an evenness of mind. Avoid extremism. Only then will your renunciation be eventually worth a dime.

 

question is .. how many of you are prepared to lose everything at once?..

 

I am prepared at all times. Are you? Are you prepared to lose your dogmatism? What will you do without it?

 

how many of you have trained your mind... your emotions.. trained your human ego to withstand the shock and the pain of losing all your wealth, your family, your children, your houses, your health all together at the same time?

 

Who cares about the numbers. I have trained in this way. So at least one person.

 

do you think the gods would never take away any of your good life?..

 

Do you think the dogs would never take away any of your bad life?

 

everything has a beginning and an end..

 

Every concrete thing has a beginning and an end. That's all you can honestly say.

 

because the present civilization will end pretty soon..

 

It won't. But if it will, it's not a big deal. Every time a person dies, civilization ends in a big way for that person. So all in all humanity has been living with civilization ending for a very very long time and we do OK. Unfortunately our dogmatism and ignorance doesn't seem to end though.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I thought you left this forum.

 

In the past he's floated the idea that higher powers are speaking though posters...

 

So, you know, if he stays on the forum, then he can live a fulfilling life where he can interact with the Gods and Outer Dimensions.

 

Maybe?

[goldisheavy]

want to become even higher and better than the masters or die trying.. And I believe I have the potential to exceed the heights reached by previous masters on earth..

 

I agree that you have that potential, just as you say.

 

And I do not aim to even lose a single second of my time and energies on useless human things anymore..

 

You should know that every old thing serves as the context for every new thing. Thus old things are not useless. Consider how the earth, which is mostly manure and refuse is the ground from which flowers spring. The earth is not wasted or discarded. The earth is not something that's left behind once the flower shows up. Don't you understand? Everything depends on everything else. This humanity is your transformational cocoon. Make good use of it and don't be in a hurry.

[goldisheavy]

Can anyone tell me when non-existence ever existed?

 

Whenever sentient beings differentiate one from the other, they give rise to both at once in the space of their own mind.

[ralis]

Can anyone tell me when non-existence ever existed?

 

I am absolutely convinced that you are in an existential crisis.

[bodyoflight]

It's not a good way to put things. Even if the majority of people here want a good ordinary life, it doesn't mean there isn't a significant minority that puts a high premium on renunciation. At the same time, you should understand that renunciation has nothing to do with moving to India or getting caught up in personality cults. Renunciation is an inner change. It's not an outer change. The outer change is there for the absolutely stubborn and desperate people who can't really grasp the essential point. Those silly people need structures and rules. Thus they become monks and nuns. And then there are also hermits.

 

 

 

Nonsense. We are always responsible for our share of influence on both the world and on one's own destiny. No one has outright control over anything, but to deny influence is an extremist way of thinking.

 

 

 

Who cares? What's important is that all these things are temporary even if no one takes them away. But the flip side, which you neglect to mention, is that our troubles are also temporary.

 

Or let me use your extremist language to put it to you this way: your pain and suffering can be taken away from you anytime. See? It's not just the good things in life that can be taken from you anytime. It's the bad things too. In this way you should cultivate an evenness of mind. Avoid extremism. Only then will your renunciation be eventually worth a dime.

 

 

 

I am prepared at all times. Are you? Are you prepared to lose your dogmatism? What will you do without it?

 

 

 

Who cares about the numbers. I have trained in this way. So at least one person.

 

 

 

Do you think the dogs would never take away any of your bad life?

 

 

 

Every concrete thing has a beginning and an end. That's all you can honestly say.

 

 

 

It won't. But if it will, it's not a big deal. Every time a person dies, civilization ends in a big way for that person. So all in all humanity has been living with civilization ending for a very very long time and we do OK. Unfortunately our dogmatism and ignorance doesn't seem to end though.

 

If you are strong enough, that you can deny or even control those who are trying to influence you.

 

A life with lots of women and money and family and friends but which is influenced by outside forces/beings is a pretty pathetic life indeed.

 

You are still thinking from the perspective that I am avoiding pain and suffering. I am going to Himalayas not to avoid pain and suffering because life in Himalayas is going to be much more challenging than where I am now.

 

But I am going to Himalayas to learn to deal with pain and suffering as the Himalayas will give me a much better training than cities in developed countries. Afterall there are more gurus in the Himalayas than anywhere else in the world.

 

What is extremism? What is renunciation? Those are empty words to me and empty concepts.

 

I don't see going to the Himalayas as extremism or renunciation. I am not going to give up all my money now, am I? I am still going to be connected to the Net.

 

If you are prepared to live without your wealth, health, women and good life, then congratulations. But action speaks louder than words.

 

Why not come to the Himalayas with me and see if you can live without the luxuries and convenience of the modern cities? That way, you will prove to me that you are indeed prepared to lose everything in your life.

 

Civilization will end in a way no human has ever experienced before. So don't go around saying that humans have always experienced civilization-ending crisis.

 

This one will be totally different and I can't wait to see how everyone's ego will be totally electrocuted...

 

Edited May 21, 2011 by bodyoflight

[Vajrahridaya]

I am absolutely convinced that you are in an existential crisis.

 

[Vajrahridaya]

Whenever sentient beings differentiate one from the other, they give rise to both at once in the space of their own mind.

 

Exactly, products of mind. One can meditate on "nothing" and sit there for a very long time, even after the body falls away, as it's one of the formless jhanas.

 

All just products of mind which exists dependent upon causes and conditions with an beginning-less flow of events leading to every moment of now.

 

There is no non-existence outside of it's conceptual consideration, making it an existent.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[bodyoflight]

I agree that you have that potential, just as you say.

 

 

 

You should know that every old thing serves as the context for every new thing. Thus old things are not useless. Consider how the earth, which is mostly manure and refuse is the ground from which flowers spring. The earth is not wasted or discarded. The earth is not something that's left behind once the flower shows up. Don't you understand? Everything depends on everything else. This humanity is your transformational cocoon. Make good use of it and don't be in a hurry.

 

I only depend on the Creator and no one else.

 

Hurry? I have not even pressed my foot down on the accelerator yet.

 

[ralis]

 

Why not come to the Himalayas with me and see if you can live without the luxuries and convenience of the modern cities? That way, you will prove to me that you are indeed prepared to lose everything in your life.

 

 

 

 

Actually I could pull that one off. However, it makes no difference if I am sitting on a mountain in Nepal or playing poker on a Fri. night in Vegas.

[ralis]

 

I guess you agree.

Edited May 21, 2011 by ralis