Wanted: Mentor & Enlightenment

[LittlePie]

Hello. My name is Adam. I'm 26 years old, and I've been meditating for almost 3 years. I initially sought meditation as a means of coping with stress--I refused to depend on allopathic poison anymore, e.g., anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, etc., etc. I also sought meditation as a way of perhaps ameliorating or even curing my ADHD and Asperger's, which affect my life on a day to day, second to second basis. I have never been naturally adept at anything--disregarding general creativity--like I am with meditation. Shortly into beginning meditation, I didn't feel heat, but this electricity emanating from my brain. I found that if I pulsed the area around my temples, I could produce this electricity at will. I felt the desire to extend the feeling, trying to make it last for 2 seconds, then 3 seconds, and so on. Now I can extend it as much as I desire, just by thinking it, no temple oscillations needed. About 18 months into meditation I began to understand the heat element. I've grown this steadily since then; I've meditated a few times in the past few months where I've felt more heat than I would from an actual fire burning in front of me. Somewhere along the line, I tried meditating lying flat on a bed, in cruciform, and began breathing heavily, slowly, trying to extract and consolidate chi on every inhale and exhale. This continued for 30-45 minutes, the breaths slowly getting stronger and faster. My entire body went electric with a very intense form of what I felt from my temples. I could feel a disc of energy spinning at my navel area. Each time I took a breath in, I could feel this breath pushing down on the spinning energy like a top, pumping it to speed up. I continued breathing in, pumping and speeding this ring of energy until my hands seemed to magnetize and my fingers collapsed on my palms, the collapse was the strength of a muscle spasm, though without the pain, all the fingers just locked into place, thumb and forefinger up and against one another, both pressing against the middle finger, with all the other fingers pointed down, same thing on each hand, and literally forced into this position. I got up and walked around, finding my legs had been locked up somewhat by energy as well--I was unable to fully extend them. The effect lasted about 10-15 minutes, though I remained in an enlightened state (this floaty, passive, simply observant mentality) for maybe a couple hours after the meditation had ended.

 

ANYWAY, I'm here because of the MP nei kung system. I want to be a master. I am hoping to find guidance on these forums. Right now I am at Level 1, and I am wondering how I will know when my dantien is full of yang chi. So that's my deal. Any assistance would be infinitely appreciated.

[JohnC]

Hello. My name is Adam. I'm 26 years old, and I've been meditating for almost 3 years. I initially sought meditation as a means of coping with stress--I refused to depend on allopathic poison anymore, e.g., anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, etc., etc. I also sought meditation as a way of perhaps ameliorating or even curing my ADHD and Asperger's, which affect my life on a day to day, second to second basis. I have never been naturally adept at anything--disregarding general creativity--like I am with meditation. Shortly into beginning meditation, I didn't feel heat, but this electricity emanating from my brain. I found that if I pulsed the area around my temples, I could produce this electricity at will. I felt the desire to extend the feeling, trying to make it last for 2 seconds, then 3 seconds, and so on. Now I can extend it as much as I desire, just by thinking it, no temple oscillations needed. About 18 months into meditation I began to understand the heat element. I've grown this steadily since then; I've meditated a few times in the past few months where I've felt more heat than I would from an actual fire burning in front of me. Somewhere along the line, I tried meditating lying flat on a bed, in cruciform, and began breathing heavily, slowly, trying to extract and consolidate chi on every inhale and exhale. This continued for 30-45 minutes, the breaths slowly getting stronger and faster. My entire body went electric with a very intense form of what I felt from my temples. I could feel a disc of energy spinning at my navel area. Each time I took a breath in, I could feel this breath pushing down on the spinning energy like a top, pumping it to speed up. I continued breathing in, pumping and speeding this ring of energy until my hands seemed to magnetize and my fingers collapsed on my palms, the collapse was the strength of a muscle spasm, though without the pain, all the fingers just locked into place, thumb and forefinger up and against one another, both pressing against the middle finger, with all the other fingers pointed down, same thing on each hand, and literally forced into this position. I got up and walked around, finding my legs had been locked up somewhat by energy as well--I was unable to fully extend them. The effect lasted about 10-15 minutes, though I remained in an enlightened state (this floaty, passive, simply observant mentality) for maybe a couple hours after the meditation had ended.

 

ANYWAY, I'm here because of the MP nei kung system. I want to be a master. I am hoping to find guidance on these forums. Right now I am at Level 1, and I am wondering how I will know when my dantien is full of yang chi. So that's my deal. Any assistance would be infinitely appreciated.

 

 

What has you want to learn Mopai?

 

Good luck though, you seem genuine, and I like that you decided to depend on yourself rather than pills.

 

John

[LittlePie]

To effectively change the world in a positive manner, one must cultivate seemingly impossible levels of internal strength. I want to learn Mo Pai for this reason.

[JohnC]

Morepieguy can probably help you the most, although there are many routes.

 

What I last heard was that John chang isn't teaching any more.

[LittlePie]

Morepieguy can probably help you the most, although there are many routes.

 

What I last heard was that John chang isn't teaching any more.

 

Ya, that's what they're saying. Thank you though, I'll send morepieguy a message.

[fizix]

Ya, that's what they're saying. Thank you though, I'll send morepieguy a message.

If you're really training Mo Pai through 'official' channels you would know that you're not supposed to tell anyone that you are training Mo Pai, thus violating the terms of your agreement with your teacher to train you. If you've somehow come by the Mo Pai level 1 meditation technique and are training Mo Pai without the guidance of a teacher, well wow good luck.

Edited May 21, 2011 by fizix

[LittlePie]

If you're really training Mo Pai through 'official' channels you would know that you're not supposed to tell anyone that you are training Mo Pai, hence violating the terms of your agreement with your teacher to train you. If you've somehow come by the Mo Pai level 1 meditation technique and are training Mo Pai without the guidance of a teacher, well wow good luck.

 

Thank you for pointing out how I know nothing. I really am as ignorant as they come with this Mo Pai system. I wish I were training through official channels, but I truly doubt I've endured enough yet to earn the privilege. Even if I never find a mentor, I still believe in my ability to transcend and sublimate, connect with myself and guide whatever universal, underlying substance of which I'm comprised. I believe in fate, and so if I'm meant to progress with my internal skill like I think I am, then it will happen one way or another.

[fizix]

Thank you for pointing out how I know nothing. I really am as ignorant as they come with this Mo Pai system. I wish I were training through official channels, but I truly doubt I've endured enough yet to earn the privilege. Even if I never find a mentor, I still believe in my ability to transcend and sublimate, connect with myself and guide whatever universal, underlying substance of which I'm comprised. I believe in fate, and so if I'm meant to progress with my internal skill like I think I am, then it will happen one way or another.

Admirable, in a sense. Just to warn you, if you are training to develop the dan tian, training the mo pai meditation, you are asking for serious trouble if you mix practice with other systems of nei kung/chi kung...forms, meditations, exercises of internal energetic nature.... you cannot mix Mo Pai with other cultivation methods...the energy body will go haywire. Be careful.

[LittlePie]

Admirable, in a sense. Just to warn you, if you are training to develop the dan tian, training the mo pai meditation, you are asking for serious trouble if you mix practice with other systems of nei kung/chi kung...forms, meditations, exercises of internal energetic nature.... you cannot mix Mo Pai with other cultivation methods...the energy body will go haywire. Be careful.

 

So are you saying it is dangerous to even practice basic baduanjin qigong while attempting to complete Level 1 of the Mo Pai system?

[deci belle]

Hi Adam, do be careful. Three years isn't very long. Have you opened up the basic active and passive channels, yet?

 

I'm glad Rainbow Vein said that~ because I wanted to address that first and foremost!

 

When you say meditation, it seems you really mean energetics, yes?

 

If you just want to excel at induction practices and ignore clarifying your mind, please be very very careful. Illnesses from unskillful induction practices are extremely dangerous— especially so because the illness generated is often untreatable.

 

Don't mistake me for one of the shaman/compassionist buddhist whatever doctrine people. There is no reason you should not eventually attain what you seek: ie, training as such. But balancing the energetics work with real nonpsychological stillness practice is something you might consider as a healthy way to help you solidify your accomplishment of staying off medication without risking possible mistakes regarding energy work.

 

Traditional taoist and buddhist teachers would insist on years (many) of study in terms of intellectual clarification and contemplation of the classics before taking up even mind-only meditation practices. Energy work is at least as dangerous without expert supervision.

 

I myself studied for ten years, experiencing spontaneous episodes of non-ordinary energy and awareness events before even beginning study of the alchemic classics. I didn't even practice the waterwheel exercises until 15 years of study, shortly after I had experienced spontaneous clarification of mind.

 

That was twenty years ago. Please don't be in a hurry. You are still a beginner. Many have been permanently damaged through their own actions regarding energy work. I myself am waiting for a teacher to learn about further studies. I have now been waiting for the past five years.

 

Cherish your health. Consider taking up wide-ranging contemplative studies of the eastern classics, while your approach matures!❤

Edited May 21, 2011 by deci belle

[LittlePie]

Hi LittlePie, help me to find the logic in your statement.

 

Effecting change requires power, no? Positive change requires a virtuous, substantive power. Since evil corrupts easily, one must have great internal strength to be able for one's words and actions (his existence by extension) to not only resist the corrupting nature of evil, but to dominate it thoroughly.

[LittlePie]

What are active and passive channels? How do I open them up, and how do I know when they are open?

 

What is the difference between meditation and energetics?

 

What are induction practices?

[mewtwo]

mind if i ask littlepie what have you studied interms of spiritual stuff and what practices do you do like taichi or do you only do meditation? like if you could list some books you have read and such.

 

Also you say you have aspergers why do you say thta this is a bad thing. In my oppinion (i also have it) it is a good thing. I have written some posts about it just search the forum for autism.

 

Basicaly i believe that a person with autism can achive faster certain things that does not meen over night but it might meen shaving a couple of years off what an NT might take.

 

just remeber good ketchup from a glass bottle always is slow to come out.

[goldisheavy]

ANYWAY, I'm here because of the MP nei kung system. I want to be a master. I am hoping to find guidance on these forums. Right now I am at Level 1, and I am wondering how I will know when my dantien is full of yang chi. So that's my deal. Any assistance would be infinitely appreciated.

 

Be careful with Mo Pai. For better or for worse, Mo Pai is a secret system. This means much or most of the information available, or perhaps all the information available about Mo Pai is wrong.

 

The presence of warped information is one of the reasons I oppose secrecy, in fact.

 

So while I will abstain from making an absolute judgement about Mo Pai, my current opinion is that Mo Pai is a useless and deluded system and so far I've seen it cause mostly pain and suffering to people, and not anything that I would call "positive." I've watched people chase the Mo Pai dream while falling prey to scams and distortions. This doesn't mean that Mo Pai at its core is a complete waste of time, although it can very well be. So that's why I am saying my judgment on Mo Pai is not absolute.

 

So I am not going to try to dissuade you, but I do want to caution you. Be very very careful when you deal with information or traditions that are considered secret, because they are often poisoned and they are ripe for scams and exploitations, since you have no way to verify anything (because everything is secret). I believe there are some secret systems that are what they claim to be, but given the publicly available information it makes little sense trying to chase even those known-good secret materials out, in my opinion.

Edited May 21, 2011 by goldisheavy

[Mattimo]

Effecting change requires power, no? Positive change requires a virtuous, substantive power. Since evil corrupts easily, one must have great internal strength to be able for one's words and actions (his existence by extension) to not only resist the corrupting nature of evil, but to dominate it thoroughly.

 

LittlePie, this statement is truly quite profound and something that I resonate with quite strongly. It is akin to saying, "in order to change the world, you must firstly change oneself." To be thy rock; solid and immovable amidst the chaos of society and world at large is truly inspirational and humbling.

[Cat Pillar]

Effecting change requires power, no? Positive change requires a virtuous, substantive power. Since evil corrupts easily, one must have great internal strength to be able for one's words and actions (his existence by extension) to not only resist the corrupting nature of evil, but to dominate it thoroughly.

 

The following is just my opinion, nothing more. Take it with a big grain of salt.

 

The internal power you speak of encompasses much more than developing your chi. You must develop wisdom as well, otherwise the nature of things as they are may elude you, leaving you open to misdiagnosing something as "evil" that in reality has a benign purpose. The development of Wisdom, Love/Compassion, and Power should ideally be balanced. Cultivate all three, and you stand a much better chance of effecting truly positive change in the world.

 

Do not limit yourself to seeking a single school/path, or believing that there is only one Key to unlock the Door. Eventually you need to dedicate yourself to a practice to see results with it, but avoid developing prejudgments about what that path is or should be. Allow your experience and your intuition to shape your path.

 

Be wary of the changes you wish to see in the world; what appears as panacea may actually be poison.

[manitou]

Effecting change requires power, no? Positive change requires a virtuous, substantive power. Since evil corrupts easily, one must have great internal strength to be able for one's words and actions (his existence by extension) to not only resist the corrupting nature of evil, but to dominate it thoroughly.

 

 

I don't know anything about this subject (mo pai) but I would question the duality of labeling anything evil. Perhaps evil doesn't have its own intent at all, perhaps it's just absence of light. I would think that before one could find the Oneness that this energy system would require, it would be helpful to stop looking at the world as good and evil, or god and devil. Looking at it this way removes the fear and would make you a better practitioner. I would think. It must all be embraced, not just the selective parts.

[LittlePie]

I don't know anything about this subject (mo pai) but I would question the duality of labeling anything evil. Perhaps evil doesn't have its own intent at all, perhaps it's just absence of light. I would think that before one could find the Oneness that this energy system would require, it would be helpful to stop looking at the world as good and evil, or god and devil. Looking at it this way removes the fear and would make you a better practitioner. I would think. It must all be embraced, not just the selective parts.

 

Excuse me, but energy, at its most fundamental level, is a dichotomy. Positive and negative. Yin and yang. Good and evil are just arbitrary human reifications of these base elements. There is evil in this world. Active evil. Not simply a passive evil, as you suggest, where an absence of light exists. Moreover, your statement regarding embracing everything precludes the integration of good and evil as separate entities within any context, which is self-contradictory. I hope I'm not being rude, but I take philosophy very seriously. It is very easy to pontificate. What I do, however, is try to articulate all the subtleties I have garnered through experience. Finding the correct words to thread the needle of my understanding of the human condition is incredibly difficult. My views are fully honest, and a collaboration between my heart and mind. However, I do not wish to get into a debate of metaphysics. Any sort of intelligent and creative individual can argue any perspective with success; this has to do with the subjective nature of reality, as well as the unfortunately subjective nature of language. Finally, out of everything I've experienced in my life, I can state this: Of all the evils, willful ignorance is the worst, most active evil. (And guess what, it's everywhere.)

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Wells]

Finally, out of everything I've experienced in my life, I can state this: Of all the evils, willful ignorance is the worst, most active evil. (And guess what, it's everywhere.)

True, and ignorance of cause of low intelligence is the worst passive evil in the world...and it's everywhere too.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Dorian Black

[LittlePie]

Welcome Little Pie,

 

how about you read the post of the Tao Bums about the other system and join the

one you like and also read when the name of the system is English, since the Mo Pai

is closed for westerners?

You can also look for Mo Pai in the search function first to see what the members here have to say and ask one or two of the members for their tips since they are also one

a long journey in search and find the one or other things.

 

Q

 

Alright, I'll do some searching. I just wish I could find a mentor before I end up injuring myself. I already injured myself once, bringing a ring of electricity up from my naval area to my chest, where it got stuck. I repeated this 7-8 times, not knowing this was bad for me. 10-15 minutes after I finished the session, my chest hurt a lot. All my bronchial arteries felt like they had been burned. I thought I had permanently damaged myself. After 1-2 weeks without the problem dissipating at all, I found an acupuncturist who fixed me after 2 sessions. I simply don't want to hurt myself again, but at the same time, I refuse to completely drop my work with energy, because I feel it is necessary in realizing my potential--to the point where I perceive it as fate.

[goldisheavy]

I can state this: Of all the evils, willful ignorance is the worst, most active evil. (And guess what, it's everywhere.)

 

How about those who knowingly and purposefully keep others in the dark? (by failing to share some vital or critical information)

 

If you think about it, ignorance and knowledge are both social phenomena. If you were the only being in the world, there would be no way to establish you as either knowledgeable or ignorant, since there would be no way to compare you with someone else who is more or less intelligent. So if you admit that knowledge and ignorance the way people often use such terms are social in nature, then surely blocking the flow of vital information is not a neutral act.

[goldisheavy]

One more thing. From what I've heard John Chang never claimed that Mo Pai had anything to do with enlightenment. Immortality and power, yes. And how about enlightenment? I think it's pretty clear that enlightenment is not one of the goals in Mo Pai. Since enlightenment is one of the things you list as "wanted," I figured I'd mention this.

[LittlePie]

One more thing. From what I've heard John Chang never claimed that Mo Pai had anything to do with enlightenment. Immortality and power, yes. And how about enlightenment? I think it's pretty clear that enlightenment is not one of the goals in Mo Pai. Since enlightenment is one of the things you list as "wanted," I figured I'd mention this.

 

To be aware and master energy as John has is absolutely to embody an enlightened state--regardless of whether he recognizes it as such. Mo Pai isn't simply mindless training to acquire mindless power, like that of athletics. As for knowingly keeping others in the dark, this is not necessarily evil at all. In fact, it is because of the inherent human predisposition towards ignorance that information and, more importantly, knowledge has been kept from the masses. Knowledge must be earned, actively sought. To state that people refusing to spoon feed others is evil is something I cannot agree with. Do I wish people who knew secrets would divulge them to me? Of course. Every day I am frustrated by my inability to be certain on pretty much everything, especially when I know there are people with experience who could show me the truth, or at least some degree of truth. As for the social phenomena statement, I think this is an interesting notion, but I disagree. All values are relative, but to state that there would be no relativity if only one human being existed is incorrect in my view. One can measure one's value relative to themselves, i.e., their former self, their imagined future self. They can measure their sagacity against animals, plants, all forms of life. Where a certain animal, like a lion, does well in a survival situation, the sole human may fail, and so he could consider himself ignorant relative to the lion, or consider the lion more knowledgeable relative to himself. I state willful ignorance as the greatest evil because it exhibits a complete lack of respect for oneself, one's environment, it totally neglects the notion of responsibility, and this is where entropy enters, causes chaos, hurts oneself, hurts others, and worse yet: it proliferates--as you can see by the current state of the world.

[manitou]

Excuse me, but energy, at its most fundamental level, is a dichotomy. Positive and negative. Yin and yang. Good and evil are just arbitrary human reifications of these base elements. There is evil in this world. Active evil. Not simply a passive evil, as you suggest, where an absence of light exists. Moreover, your statement regarding embracing everything precludes the integration of good and evil as separate entities within any context, which is self-contradictory.

 

 

LP, it almost sounds like you're ascribing an evil intent to Yin.