The greatest teacher is oneself.

[Informer]

All of the trials and tribulations of ones life is a unique experience. How these experiences are handled is more often then not solely upon the one who experienced. These experiences evolve as one chooses. There will be many teachers in all of our lives, from the smallest ant, to the grandest mountain. It is the boundaries that have been constructed by oneself that limits progress. The same remains with progress, as these constructs are broken down.

 

There is only one in this world that can initiate these changes.

[mewtwo]

yes you are right one need not look outward for everything is already inside of him. now some people might disagree with me but yeah.

[deci belle]

Is not oneself. The teacher is found in oneself. Yet it is not oneself, inasmuch as the source of awareness is you, but you are not it.

[Informer]

Is not oneself. The teacher is found in oneself. Yet it is not oneself, inasmuch as the source of awareness is you, but you are not it.

 

Why can't it go both ways?

 

It is all one and the same is it not?

 

I find a man to teach me, what makes that man seperate from oneness? I learn on my own, what makes me seperate from oneness?

 

No matter what I learn, I am learning from oneself. I determine what is true by experience and reflection ultimitely.

 

What makes a teacher found "within" oneself? Within is as opposed to what?

[deci belle]

The way is not even one, much less two.

 

Not coming or going the teacher is sameness without beginning. After a long time, you enact this.

 

In your state you are neither one nor the same. Sameness is practiced after realization, when you know we're all phantoms.

 

Nothing knowing is what's not separate. What are you learning from yourself? Less? Or more? Tao is loosing every day. What are you loosing?

 

What happens when nothing itself is gone, gone, beyond gone, gone beyond? Now who determines?

 

The teacher is the true intent of the immaterial human body, which has no location. One finds this in the center of one's self. It is not a person.

 

Your independence is noteworthy, Informer, but it is still in the relative.

 

True autonomy is when no one else knows.

 

Right now everyone knows.

[Informer]

The way is not even one, much less two.

 

Not coming or going the teacher is sameness without beginning. After a long time, you enact this.

 

In your state you are neither one nor the same. Sameness is practiced after realization, when you know we're all phantoms.

 

Nothing knowing is what's not separate. What are you learning from yourself? Less? Or more? Tao is loosing every day. What are you loosing?

 

What happens when nothing itself is gone, gone, beyond gone, gone beyond? Now who determines?

 

The teacher is the true intent of the immaterial human body, which has no location. One finds this in the center of one's self. It is not a person.

 

Your independence is noteworthy, Informer, but it is still in the relative.

 

True autonomy is when no one else knows.

 

Right now everyone knows.

 

 

Hehe, sorry I don't understand you.

 

I didn't say it is a person did I?

 

less or more compared to what?

 

"The teacher is the true intent of the immaterial human body, which has no location. One finds this in the center of one's self."

 

Yes, I know what the center is but I don't see what this has to do with what I said, nor can I find the correlations. How can that which has no location be located at the center?

 

"True autonomy is when no one else knows."

 

What's it have to do with autonomy?

 

Will you point out what doesn't make sense, that I may see that angle?

 

 

Thanks.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Informer

[deci belle]

it's just that

what isn't reflecting

doesn't dwell

so when certainty is deliberate

there is bound to be confusion.

 

It is not a person who realizes.

Only then do you see the teacher.

[imonous]

Yes, this is true. But who is oneself? It might be easier from a western point of view to see an inner self and an outer self. The path is a delicate charade of balancing and assimilating experience/knowledge from both sides of existence. It is really a gift to realize the correspondence of happenings inside correlating to things that happen around us. Im sure we've all experienced strange coincidences that jump out from time to time. The is like a ring from the cosmos causing us to really question who "we" are. So yes, listen to yourself, life is only between you and yourself. Noone else needs to be involved with the process. No guru or master. Just you and your own discernment.

[Informer]

Ah, nicely put imonus. Thank you for the reply.

 

I know I wouldn't charge myself for teaching myself, ehehehehe.

[goldisheavy]

I agree with you Informer. I would say not only are you the greatest teacher for yourself, but you are the only teacher. Every time you think you are learning from someone else, you are in fact processing your own state of mind. The objects you call "other" appear where? They appear in your own mind to you. This is why inner integrity is such a critical aspect of the spiritual path. If you are not straight with yourself, there is nothing "out there" that can correct you or set you straight. Ultimately you are left to decide what is correct and what isn't.

[imonous]

Glad i can help Im getting the feeling i should charge myself more for the use of myself. My awareness is a valuable tool you know...

[imonous]

I agree with you Informer. I would say not only are you the greatest teacher for yourself, but you are the only teacher. Every time you think you are learning from someone else, you are in fact processing your own state of mind. The objects you call "other" appear where? They appear in your own mind to you. This is why inner integrity is such a critical aspect of the spiritual path. If you are not straight with yourself, there is nothing "out there" that can correct you or set you straight. Ultimately you are left to decide what is correct and what isn't.

 

I like this. Also be warned that your mind has the sneakiest ways of tricking you, or coloring reality so that you see things a certain way. The only way to avoiding this is "keeping it real". You can lie to the world but you can't lie to yourself. If you feel something isn't "right" or a belief rubs you a "funny" way, it is your job to shine your light on it.

[Informer]

lol. yeah

[Otis]

I agree with you Informer. I would say not only are you the greatest teacher for yourself, but you are the only teacher. Every time you think you are learning from someone else, you are in fact processing your own state of mind. The objects you call "other" appear where? They appear in your own mind to you. This is why inner integrity is such a critical aspect of the spiritual path. If you are not straight with yourself, there is nothing "out there" that can correct you or set you straight. Ultimately you are left to decide what is correct and what isn't.

Excellent!

 

The distinction I make for myself is that I am always following, never leading. I am not the "teacher", not the one who declares what is true and what is not. I am merely the one who does all the listening, all the paying attention. I am the student of my own path.

 

Rather than decide a path, I listen to the path that calls me down it, and I enjoy the experience of traveling it. And that's it. The least deciding, the least controlling, the least planning possible.

 

To emerge as my life, I cannot second guess and rationalize my relationship with the world. Rather than thinking my way through relationship, I can be the relationship, be the caring, even be the world. Let the unfolding flow of life, including where I'm at, be the authentic ground for spontaneous action. And trust that I do not need to figure out life, before I live it.

 

Of course, to do this, I must be willing to see life as mystery. If I decide that I have it figured out, then I am only relating to my concepts. I have to be willing to be unjaded before experience, if I am to truly pay attention to that experience.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Otis

[Jetsun]

I'm starting to think that suffering might be the greatest teacher, nothing tells you that you are doing something wrong or shows you that you have strayed too far from the Tao bettr than suffering

[C T]

The greatest teacher is oneself. This is hard to dispute... its like saying the greatest source of light and heat is the Sun - who can say otherwise?

 

Sometimes, though, knowing that the Sun is the greatest and the brightest source of light is not enough. Just like using a magnifying glass to channel the energy in order to ignite some wood or paper, one needs tools to bring up, to magnify, to concentrate and to harness the sun's power. Hence, we cannot always say that mere knowledge is power. Its perhaps more accurate to say that knowledge contains only limitless potential for power.

 

So there is a great teacher inside each of us, but without a magnifying glass, or using one that is improper or weak, bringing out the best from within this teacher could become a laborious drag, and many give up, disillusioned in their believing or increasing faith in the simple knowledge that they are their own greatest teacher.

 

Just some thoughts.

[deci belle]

Informer said:

Yes, I know what the center is but I don't see what this has to do with what I said, nor can I find the correlations. How can that which has no location be located at the center?

 

Could you please describe under what circumstances you know the center other than what has no location?

[Marblehead]

Informer said:

 

Could you please describe under what circumstances you know the center other than what has no location?

 

What? Hehehe.

 

Okay. I'll sit down and shut up.

[deci belle]

[Marblehead]

Ah! Okay. You are talking about attaining the state of 'wu'.

 

I'm outa' here.

[goldisheavy]

[deci belle]

Not entirely, Marblehead— hang on! Hi, goldisheavy~

 

What you are referring to is something other than the center, because there is discerning of this and that. I don't doubt your experience, however— what's there to be wrong? Awareness itself has no content. Purity has nothing to compare. This is the objectivity of one's own teacher, that's all. Seeing this is knowing the teacher. This is a thread about recognizing the inner teacher. Please don't go off on a tangent about seeing phenomena and enlightenment in terms of understanding interpenetration. I only mentioned purity as an example for the basis of objectivity.

 

Informer, whatever is learned with the unenlightened mind is worthless, in terms of objectivity. You can deny it, but that won't change the fact. If you awaken to accurate clarity, perception is true learning. True learning is learning spiritual neutralization of killing energy at the right time in ordinary affairs unbeknownst to anyone.

 

It's not a matter of words. Not a person is the essence of awareness, so it's not that it's inside as opposed to outside. Not a person isn't another thing. Awakening to the center, one finds that mind and self, others, purity as opposed to impurity simply isn't applicable.

 

You don't see the teacher because you yourself haven't seen what it is your mind and body are employing to sense self and others. You are still developing inner discipline and warding off externals. That's great! But though it is right before you, you can't avail yourself of it due to the desire to surpass others and thoughts of your own ability. Ego and possessiveness are obstacles on the way. Stop talking about inside and outside— and bothering about threatening threads about brainwashing others. Be as if a dunce. It's not a matter of indifference— it's activating attention without dwelling on anything.

 

Issues of right and wrong are another universe and of no concern to you— ditto for politics. Burning monks are neither to be pitied nor esteemed. Worldly affairs are to be dismissed. The way has no such discernment. You see the way by ceasing conditioned consciousness. If you can't forget conditioned existence, how are you going to unite with the tao in reality?

 

The light itself is the teacher. Going along with the light is ordinary consciousness. When you still yourself and turn the light of your eyes and ears around and follow it in reverse, the monkey-mind is left behind and you realize the meaning of the ancient saying, "Return is the movement of the Way" (chapter 40, Tao Te Ching).

 

The difference between the mind of tao and the human mind is a hairsbreadth. By turning the light around, you will realize that the teacher is the basic mind, which has no identity, is not a person and has no characteristics. The reason it cannot ever be mistaken for yourself is that there are no words.

 

Enlightenment and phenomena are both empty. After awakening, one starts all over and learns from the teacher to secretly harmonize sameness within difference in everyday ordinary situations.

 

The path to enlightenment is a finite endeavor. The path of realization of enlightening being is the process of spiritual (nonpsychological) weakening and harmonization of the light in endless transformations performed in secret.

 

When you take over creation, there are no words; so nobody knows you.

 

Experience itself isn't the light. The light is what's alive. The light is the teacher. Not everyone has to have certain kinds of experience to use one's own teacher. Most of us don't have that natural affinity, though. Anyone can turn the light around, but actually following the light in reverse to its source is unequivocal in terms of seeing the teacher without reference to self.

 

Relying on oneself is essential. The teacher is just code for impersonal awareness. Though I mention it, I'm not discussing harmonizing sameness and difference— I'm only talking about the point of this thread, which is one's own inner teacher; nonpsychological objectivity.❤

Edited May 26, 2011 by deci belle

[C T]

[C T]

[manitou]

This is why inner integrity is such a critical aspect of the spiritual path. If you are not straight with yourself, there is nothing "out there" that can correct you or set you straight. Ultimately you are left to decide what is correct and what isn't.

 

Plus 100 on this.

 

I've sponsored a few in my 30 years of being sober. Doing the inner cultivation (the steps of recovery) must be done earnestly and relentlessly, in my opinion. Many people who set out to do this (because they have to, to save their lives) aren't all that earnest; they want results, but many aren't willing to put in the painful work of trying to find one's shortcomings and change them. When someone does actually spend years doing the inner mining, it gets lighter, and lighter, and lighter.

 

Some kid themselves into thinking that all they have to do is show up at meetings and they'll get it by osmosis. But long term recovery means changing one's self about 180 degrees, from the inside out.

 

Yes, I believe the ultimate light flickers in our innermost being, once we get through all the dross and get down to it. Actually, no, I don't 'believe' it. I Know it. It's there for us all, but our own egos are the bully at the door that won't let us through until we've tamed him.

 

Otis, your child-like aliveness is so very apparent. Your mindset always conciliatory. I don't think you let your inner child out to play at all. I think you Are the inner child. If I were wearing a hat, I'd take it off to you