excessive practice of qigong

[Non]

Alright.. my sifu told me to take it easy on the qigong he taught me. It's kind of an intense qigong unlike the soft flowing type. This one has a flow but it's quick and intense. Powerful.

 

He says when he first learned of the practice, he wd practice the chi kung everyday like he practiced kung fu. He saw himself becoming really irritable and overly aggressive, etc. over time. Like in a couple weeks. Really mean and just like I guess 'excessively yang', and/or deficient in yin. So he talked about this with his master who transmitted the teachings and he told him to take it easy, it's not to be practiced like kung fu, and that he's doing it too much. At the very least start off slow, then you can increase but only in due proportion.

 

Now I see people on these forums say they practice qigong for multiple hours a day. My question is what types of qigong and meditation is this? Does that long duration of practice have a good use, or can it be destructive in a more longer term?

 

Are there any qigongs that are EFFECTIVE and that you can practice a lot?

Edited May 22, 2011 by Non

[Jetsun]

I'd say a huge amount depends on the state of the individual person doing it and their intent, but as a general rule Bruce Frantzis says never exceed 70% of your capacity.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Non]

Why you want do that?

 

Q

 

to reach a 'high level'?

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[mjjbecker]

I'd say a huge amount depends on the state of the individual person doing it and their intent, but as a general rule Bruce Frantzis says never exceed 70% of your capacity.

 

Sound advice. Having a good teacher and following their instructions is paramount.

 

Non, you have a teacher and a method. Do you doubt them? If you are happy with what you are doing, why change-or add to it? It doesn't seem like you have been practising this method for much time. It takes a lot of consistent effort to get results, over a significant period of time. Effort, time and patience.

[Maddie]

Try to listen to your body. Sometimes I'll be doing the healing sounds and inner smile and suddenly my body just kind of says "enough for now" and when I listen all goes well, but when I force the issue and keep pressing on then I feel crappy.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[starhawk]

Hi all.

 

The style I practice is a bit martial as well... I noticed I would burn out and have symptoms of yang overload when I practice too much-- heat rising, heat on skin, etc. Not good, LOL.

 

I added meditation before I close (i was just too lazy before). It helps but the best is not to overload in the first place. Masters have ways of "relieving" overloaded circuits, like using it to heal people if they are healers, or do kung fu and tai chi, etc.

 

While there is no such thing as this higher state, but for the person who is The "higher state" is eloquently explained by friend, as effort.

 

because it is mostly a function of your ability to go into the emptiness. Then you would understand how to sublimate more energy into meditation, thereby achieving more harmony and balance. I think that is mostly right but if I'm wrong someone can correct me so I know too

 

Time and patience-- Its so true.

 

I added a second style of qigong (SFQ)and it is effective for healing, but obviously it does not draw as much chi as my primary style. It is still effective and complimentary I think to my primary style, but I would recommend talking to your current master first. Some masters are peculiar about what students can learn.

 

hope it helps

cheers

Edited May 22, 2011 by starhawk

[doc benway]

There are many cases of "Qigong Psychosis." It is a well-established clinical syndrome with relatively clear and predictable characteristics. Is Qigong causing the problem or is it the person's susceptibility that is the problem?

 

Yes

 

In a susceptible individual, the type of experiences that can be produced by excessive and compulsive practice and obsessive thought can lead to a psychotic state. The type of personality traits or mental states that can lead to problems are a tendency toward obsessive and compulsive thought patterns and behaviors combined with alterations in reality testing. When someone of this type focuses their (pathologically intense) attention on a practice like Qigong, a negative feedback loop can develop. The experiences that result from the activity and the thought patterns that are associated are continually reinforced and in the absence as adequate reality testing, a psychotic state can result.

 

I don't think the particular flavor of the exercises are as important as the state of mind of the practitioner but both contribute to the rare occurrence of this condition. I think that there can be a fine line between calling someone psychotic and acknowledging that people can have experiences outside of the norms of society and culture. Nevertheless, there are some cases where a latent schizophrenia or something along those lines becomes manifest in a way that seems to link it to Qigong practice.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well there are lots of different types of qigong out there.

 

B.K. Frantzis has a couple of "horror stories" out there, about people who got hurt doing powerful qigong. Most of the problems, however, stem from the fact that the person practiced away from a teacher, or sometimes they did not know the origin of a practice. Frantzis tells of a method that he was told was a "secret" tai chi technique. He got powerful vibrations, and strong martial abilities, but it started driving him nuts too. Turns out it was a technique someone picked up from Shaolin, and he wasn't the first, nor the last, to experiencing these effects.

 

If you can, talk to your teacher about whit method and where it came from. Some methods were created during times of war- they were created to get strong, fast, NOW. Health meant surviving. They weren't meant to make you "healthy" per se, they were meant to make you strong enough to fight off whoever wanted to kill you.

 

Also tell your teacher that you WANT to practice more often, and you want something that will nurture you.

 

By the by, who is your teacher, and what are you learning? If you can say.

 

Finally, some personality types mesh better with certain techniques than others. Taomeow has mentioned a few times about the elemental balances of a person. For instance, if you are low on water and wood, but already good on fire, a fire practice will burn up the woord and evaporate what little water you've already got! So a person's balance must be taken into consideration.

 

I would like to say that your teacher knew all of this and took it into account. I would also like to say that your teacher is fully initiated into what they are teaching, and can accurately trace its origin. But I know that is not always the case with teachers, and since I don't know yours, I can't say for certain. I don't mean to cast any doubt on your teacher, but, well, I don't know your teacher, and I think everyone should be skeptical until the teacher can really earn your trust.

 

And finally, the 70% rule is also a must. Even for a practice that can be practiced for 20, 40 minutes, 1, 2, 3, or more hours, it is ALWAYS based on what your body and system can handle. People who practice that long have built up to that point. They didn't start out with that. There are a lot of really heavy duty cultivators here, so don't judge yourself based on them or their system. Do what you got to do, and do nothing more or less.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[GreytoWhite]

I recently had some qigong issues which caused me to advance certain parts of my development out of proportion to my cultivation and body. It took me a few weeks to stabilize. Yes, qigong can cause troubles for your mind.

[Baguakid]

Here is my experience on this matter. It depends on that person's body and if it can handle the qigong he/she is practicing. I've come across some forced and strong methods that if your body is not ready for it it will make your body worse. This is exactly like Chinese medicine. Ginseng, for example, is touted as being great for your body but if your body is not ready for it it will make your condition worse. Qigong is the same. I've heard of some people practicing the exercises I've aquired when not ready for them, and have seriously hurt themselves. I've had to use my nogin, listen closely to what my body tells me, study TCM, build theory, try, and adjust my practice to what my body tells me is right.

 

Some qigong methods are benign for the most part. Wuji qigong standing meditation is such a method. I currently stand Wuji for 1 to 3 hours a day with no ill effects. In fact, with Wuji standing, the more the better, as long as one is not exhausted when practicing. Wuji builds kidney strength, detoxifies, opens channels, and builds qi. The downside it looks so simple most people I've met think it's either worthless or do not want to put in the effort to reap the results.

[Birch]

I think it can, yes. Kind of like excessive exercise can cause damage but enough of it will build muscle (or something...). I also think there's a fine line between "adverse qi-gong effects" and "detox". I suspect I've experienced both. At any given point, which side of that line was/am I on? And from whose perspective?? Steve F mentioned social issues. I think that's worth digging into.

 

I guess I'd consider stuff that takes 5E into account "safer" than stuff that doesn't. I did find at one point that "grounding" and "heart-centered" practice was very helpful (as was acupuncture and "not bothering with scenery". )

 

Still, one could argue that one is doing qi-gong every day even if one is not doing qi-gong. It just happens to be unintentional and unaware. But maybe the "gong" is the intentional and aware part, otherwise it wouldn't be "gong"?

[Golden Path]

He says when he first learned of the practice, he wd practice the chi kung everyday like he practiced kung fu. He saw himself becoming really irritable and overly aggressive, etc. over time. Like in a couple weeks. Really mean and just like I guess 'excessively yang', and/or deficient in yin...

Now I see people on these forums say they practice qigong for multiple hours a day. My question is what types of qigong and meditation is this? Does that long duration of practice have a good use, or can it be destructive in a more longer term?

 

Are there any qigongs that are EFFECTIVE and that you can practice a lot?

Hi Non,

Yes, qigong can cause troubles for your mind.

- this can be often.

If the methods used qigong consciousness, visualization, and sitting meditation, it often leads to deviations.

 

Use consciousness (mind) and visualization can cause headaches, high pressure jumps. If in time do not stop and continue to practice these methods, it's possible go crazy.

 

It can also result in a strong imbalance of yin and yang in the body (like you wrote above), one of these events - "Entering the madness and roving fire". Perhaps the heat and roving fire, and burn a body from inside.

 

Here you can read the article about it: http://www.all-dao.com/madness.html

(presented by the Wuliupai school)

 

May be the opposite, deviations toward a strong cold, it the capture the Yin energy of a body, then very quickly will be flow away a primordial qi and post-heavenly energy.

 

When sitting meditation yuan-qi and vitality can also be damage: http://www.all-dao.com/dazuo-meditation.html

 

Deviations in Qigong great multitude, and in the China, there are lot of patients who are treated from the results of incorrect practice of qigong.

[Non]

I feel like one deviatinohat could have been caused is a tendency for the energies that have to go down 'go up' instead, and I feel like it is partly what causes my constipation, bloating, distension, difficulty urinating, etc.

[Golden Path]

Clearly, the practice has violated the correct flow of qi through channels and the yin-yang balance.

 

The best way to stop this practice immediately.

 

You should advice about all this problems. Do you have the contact with your teacher or mentor?